0:00 And where [music] are you going? What do you want? Hello and welcome to People Making Money. I'm your host, Kevin Bemel, and I'm here every two uh Wednesday, today's Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about uh job hunting and being an employee, starting and running a business, and building wealth. So the whole financial side of our life and this year I'm I'm working on kind of a
0:35 rolling three episode uh pattern where I talk for the for one week about um jobs and being an employee, the second week about running starting and running a business and the third week about wealth building. So I the three subjects kind of run in uh in reparatory as we used to say uh in the theater. And so today I'm going to be talking about a subject um that relates to running a business. Although you know if you're if you're job hunting. So I think this will give you some uh some thoughts about how a potential
1:12 employer may be approaching uh hiring people. And so hopefully it'll be useful for uh you know kind of for for both aspects. and that is I'm going to be talking about making a first hire. So, uh if if if you're like me, you're a so-called soloreneur, right? I'm the only employee in my business. Um that doesn't mean that I work alone. Uh I don't I work in teams. It's just the other team members uh have their own practices and so we we form groups as
1:48 need be. Um but [clears throat] you know lingering in the back of my mind is the the time you know the point in time when I won't be able to handle you know my end of of the the team by myself and so what am I you know who who do I want to bring in uh what skills and experience and knowledge does that person need to have and how do I uh ensure as much as possible that that this person will be compatible with me and will
2:24 move as into my practice as seamlessly as possible and most importantly probably be a benefit to my clients because in in at at the end of the day that's what's most important. So just as a side note I was on a call uh right right before uh starting the broadcast uh with a a fellow by the name of Jared. He and his partner have developed a software a software platform for uh um estate planning and probate and trust attorneys. And the whole idea
3:02 behind this platform is to make it um easier and for them for for lawyers to to work with their clients and serve them. Um and and that's that's the crux of any business these days as we deal more and more with the challenges of technology especially AIS the human interaction is is going to be I think ever more valuable. I I I think when people want to inter interact with AIS, they will. But I know for myself, uh
3:38 just again another example, uh on one of the on a trust where I'm where I'm the trustee, uh I I needed to deal with a bank account uh held by the trust. And it was so much easier being able to walk into a bank branch, in this case it was Wells Fargo, and deal with a live person than dealing with someone on the phone who maybe is AI assisted. It's so frustrating to have to deal with financial institutions and and and the
4:13 and the the the ways that they're, you know, looking to save money. I mean, I get it. Every business wants to save money, but I will I will, you know, applaud Wells Fargo. They keep their branches staffed and it's it's a huge benefit to be able to sit down uh you know on the with someone you know at their desk and say here's here's what I'm trying to do and you know what what needs to happen right that that direct human contact and then you know he has in his computer all of the tools that he
4:50 needs to solve my problem plus he has people he can call as an, you know, his colleagues in Wells Fargo to solve it. But me, I'm not trying to, you know, make my way through the phone web. I can deal with a person face to face. And so, uh, I I think, you know, anything that we can do in in our businesses to make our t to to maximize our client facing time and [snorts] make their experience better. that is going to make us more successful. And so as we think
5:27 about hiring people, we you know think we need to put a premium on people who can be client-facing, right? That's that's really the key. Okay. Um now obviously if if you have a larger business and you have all kinds of departments and such so then um you know the ability of any particular individual to be clientf facing may not be as important as as other skills, knowledge and experience but uh for those of us especially who have small businesses uh I I think we need to be
6:02 particularly uh aware of that particular issue. So, [clears throat] I have five thoughts on making your first hire and and and let's let's get into those. So, uh often times, um [clears throat] when especially when we work alone, I think we're unaware that our company has a culture. And the reason is because the culture is basically just who we are, right? So, my comp the culture of my company is a
6:41 reflection of the values that I hold [snorts] and and and those those are some of those are people need to be treated decently. They need to be given an opportunity to grow their professional uh abilities. Um um we need to enjoy uh what we're doing. Um interaction should be lighthearted even as even though we're dealing oftentimes with very serious uh matters. All right. But there's no
7:16 reason why you know everything has to be uh you know very der and all of that. On the other hand, people have to speak and behave appropriately and uh you know as the way my dad would have described is you know men need to be gentlemen and ladies need to be ladies that that that you know that kind of sums it up right so that's that's the culture of my company but you know because it's just me um I'm not sure it's a culture per se once there's another person involved D
7:51 whatever that culture is going to be needs to be dealt with on a um uh shoot I'm I'm struggling to find the word here all of a sudden on a on a forthright basis right in on an intentional basis that's the word I was I was searching for so other people bring in their perspectives their values their behaviors and they are going to have an impact on how
8:26 people perceive your company. Okay. [snorts] So if you you know bring in somebody who um you know doesn't put a a big premium on treating people decently and appropriately. Okay. So that will that can change how people perceive your company, the culture at your company, right? And that can also then impact your ability to attract clients, to serve clients. [snorts] It can attract your ability to
9:02 hire future employees, right? And so this is why [snorts] we have to be so attentive to the qualities of the first person that we bring into our company [snorts] and not not that we necessarily are looking for a clone of ourselves. I think quite to the contrary, we're looking I'll talk about some of these other things in a moment, but when it comes to values and behavior,
9:39 okay, those are the those are the the issues that that most impact our ability to build relationships, right? So when I was a chaplain in the United States Navy, I used to talk to sailors and marines quite a bit about relationships. And the one thing I would say to them is if you want to have a good relationship, look for similar values, not necessarily similar interests. If
10:17 you have similar interests, that's that's fine. But similar interests are not going to help you resolve disputes. When [snorts] a dispute arises, similar values will will make resolving that dispute easier because behaviorally and from a perspective perspective, right? There's there's rough at least rough alignment there.
10:52 Okay. So if you don't believe in yelling and screaming as as a means of communication and you hire someone that that's how they communicate. Resolving pro resolving problems that arise in a relationship is going to be very difficult because when a dispute arises and you're working to calmly discuss it and resolve it and the other person is screaming at you because that's their mode of communication,
11:27 right? You're going to be spending a lot of time saying, "Please calm down. Please calm." Right? and and you're not going to be focused on resolving the problem, right? So when we when we talk about culture in a business, it really is an outgrowth of values. Okay? And when a company is new and it's hiring its first person, a lot of those kind of behavioral rules, cultural norms, they're they're they're unwritten, right? because there was no reason there was no need to write them
12:02 down. Okay, most of us don't. Now, candidly, I do have such things written down to remind myself of the person that I I want to be. Okay, but it's not written down in a business sense. It's it's written down um and posted on my bathroom mirror so I can read it every morning, right? Uh but once we bring we're bringing somebody in those unwritten rules need to start being articulated right and so things like work e work ethic communication style attitudes toward accountability all of
12:39 those are going to set the tone of your company [snorts] and it's crucial as I mentioned a moment ago to be intentional about investigating those qualities those issues with respect to someone that you're bringing into your company. So you're not just hiring, you know, help, you're not just hiring an employee, you're actually bringing in a model that others will follow and not just, you know, future employees, but other people who interact with your
13:14 company, right? So even though I build teams with professionals who have their own practices, if you were to talk to the professionals with whom I I work, you would see that in in temperament, in the way we treat each other, we we all are very similar in that respect. So that because we believe in collaboration, we believe that we know our part and we we want to be able to
13:50 rely on other people to do their part and so we need to be able to take input and without getting all you know torquked about oh you think I'm stupid or whatever whatever people think right and so that takes uh maturity it takes a a calm demeanor and it takes a sense of openness. that look, we're all here for one thing and that's to serve our clients in the best way possible. So if that is, you know, the culture of your practice, your company, and you bring in someone who doesn't reflect that, so
14:27 that's likely to potentially repulse other, you know, people with whom you deal professionally and teams, but it's also their people tend to uh attract people who are like them. So that means if they start attracting other professionals, you know, with whom you're going to team up, they're they're likely to be like this other person. And so now you've got a a broader culture clash. Okay. So your first h your first hire defines your culture before you have one. Next hire
15:04 for trajectory, not just immediate skills needs. Right? So [clears throat] skills solves a problem that you have right now today's problems but the a mindset solves not only today's problems but tomorrow's as well right so it a first hire most likely is going to move up as other people are hired in the
15:41 And that person needs to be able to do so. That person needs to have that kind of growth mindset and and and have the perspective that when a problem is there, I'm going to figure out how to fix the problem. Right? So you need someone with problemsolving skills, not the skills to solve the immediate problem that you have or not not just the skills to solve the immediate problem that you have. So you want to look for someone who has adaptability who who learns quickly and and has you
16:18 know an ownership mentality, right? So, [clears throat] one of the companies that I administrate um a as a uh um as a what's called a personal representative [clears throat] is um a real estate property management company. And there are two women who work at the company and have for um more than two decades. Um, and what's what's been incredibly gratifying over the last two and a half years um that that we've been working together is to watch them take ownership
16:57 of this company now that they have the opportunity to do so. So, unfortunately, they didn't really have that opportunity as much when the deedent was still alive. now they do and it is it is just it's one of the most wonderful things that's going on in my professional life. Um I is is to watch people just blossom professionally. Um and th those are the kind of people don't steal them from this company. [laughter] Those these are
17:32 the kinds of people that we want to have in our organizations where they really want, you know, they're they're getting their teeth into it. Um that, you know, it's important the the the the goals of the company are important to them, not just because they work there, but because they have that kind of ethic as a part of their makeup. Right? So, a [clears throat] a a a very sort of high upside generalist is oftentimes going to be a much better first hire than a narrow specialist because that
18:09 narrow specialist is not going to have the ability to grow with your company and the the generalist will, right? And so that's that's part of the challenge is is is finding that and these days when when specialization has has been the by word now for I think at least 10 years maybe longer finding uh generalists I think is more difficult. I will say, you know, sort of tipping my hat to my military colleagues that military leadership tends to be a more
18:45 generalist focused um training uh because of the need when you're, you know, in the battlefield or when you're, you know, in the throws of logistics and and and other things that you have to be very very adaptable in order to meet the mission. And so part of of military leadership training is adaptability and that that that requires somewhat of a generalist uh perspective. So you know um uh you know helping my military colleagues out here for a minute, but
19:20 but I think it's something something to think about. Um by the way, I'm not saying that everybody coming out of the military is is a generalist. Not not necessarily. Uh but I think that there's you know perhaps and maybe this is somewhat anecdotal but perhaps um as you as you examine candidates you you might find that people with a military background are tend to be more of an upside generalist uh than a narrow specialist. Okay. So hire for trajectory not just immediate skills. Okay. Next,
19:57 number three, compliment yourself. Don't choose yourself. Okay, this is this is what I alluded to a few minutes ago. So, it it is so tempting when you're hiring your first employee to look for a carbon copy of yourself. Okay? And [snorts] and [clears throat] it's it is it will be comfortable, right? Because the person has the same values as you. They behave the same the same way that
20:33 you behave. They have the same knowledge base that you have. They have the same skills that you have. And so therefore, things are going to presumably go along smoothly. The problem with that is is they're likely to have the same blind spots that you have and that's not at all of value. Okay? [snorts] So, you're you're better off looking at yourself as critically as you can, as objectively as you can, and saying, "Okay, what are my strong points?" For example, am I highly organized?
21:08 Okay. Well, if you are, you don't need someone who's highly organized. What you need is someone maybe who is uh let's say you're a highly organized, shy, introvert. Okay, those things tend to go together. Okay, ask it from me whose first nickname in the Navy was OCD, right? So what you may need is maybe a somewhat less well-organized extroverted salesoriented person. Okay, those those two will complement
21:44 each other and you can help the you know somewhat less wellorganized you know extroverted salesman be better organized and he can help you see how crucial it is to take into your perspective uh how running the company how how sales is so important to running the company and how that needs to be built in and how that sort of outward focused energy has will will be important to driving the success of the company. Right?
22:20 [snorts] So you want to look rather than falling prey to comfort bias, right? where you you end up hiring the person with whom you feel most comfortable. Look for someone who actually makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable and then understand where that discomfort is coming from pro. Now hopefully it's not coming from conflicting values. You do want you do want concurrent values, but hopefully it's coming from differing uh um knowledge, skills, and abilities and
22:55 and you can make those complimementaryary rather than uh the same. Okay? So, [snorts] a a a more balanced team early on will allow you to scale better in the future, whereas uh a a Um whereas if you're hiring people who are just like you, essentially what you're doing is you're creating bottlenecks in your business and you're hampering your ability to grow. Okay, let's take a quick break. Quick a quick
23:30 break and come back and talk some more. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value. We're your trusted partner through every step. Magnum Properties, Inc., turning
24:06 property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396 or visit magnumprops.com. Okay, so number four um um this is a a topic that I've I've mentioned several times already. So values fit meaning a meshing of values is a force multiplier whereas the opposite is basically a silent killer.
24:42 So when you when you talk when we talk when I talked about misaligned values it creates friction and that friction compounds over time. So if you've ever been in a marriage with with someone in confl you know with conflicting values it's virtually impossible to resolve problems because what one spouse values the other one does not. And so how do you find a solution that both of you value?
25:17 And and the answer is it's incredibly difficult. Right? and and this this can be very very difficult. So often times people don't know their values nearly as well as they think they do. Okay. So we have to be careful that just because people say oh my value is you know kindness or my value is courage or my value is this or that. We have to look beyond what they're saying to how they behave. Okay? Because people's true values
25:56 become evident in how they act, not just what they say. Right? So if someone says if someone says to you uh I I you know I have very traditional values and I believe in treating people decently. Okay. But they spew a lot of profanity. They're giving you mixed signals, right? Because most people when they're sworn at find that minimally uncomfortable, right? So I can tell you wherever I hold
26:32 sway, I don't permit people to use profanity in front of me. If if and if they do, I say, "Pardon me, but I please don't use profanity around me." that that's that's my value. I don't feel that that's decent conduct. Okay. Now, by the way, there have been people who have been offended by my saying that. That's fine. That's fine. We have different values. Okay? You're going to be who you're going to be. I'm going to be who I'm going to be. I'm only responsible for myself and for looking after myself.
27:08 Okay? And if someone feels that it's, you know, more important to use profanity, for example, than to have a relationship with me, okay, I got it, that's fine. You know, do those vida as as as they say in Russian, right? Uh but we we need to look beyond how people describe their values to see if they're behaving in a manner that reflects what they're saying. Okay. [snorts] So um when we
27:43 have aligned values so first of all it increases trust and that's crucial especially in the beginning of a new relationship. In this case, I'm talking about, you know, a professional relationship. Building trust is crucial and it's much easier to build trust with someone with whom we share values. Okay? But that's not the only benefit of having similar values. It will also increase the the speed with which we get comfortable with
28:18 each other, with which we build a working relationship. it will bring clarity to decision making more quickly, right? Because we're coming from the same basic values. Okay? So, for for all of those reasons when you're in, you know, when you're talking with someone about potentially bringing them into your organization. [snorts] So ask questions that will elicit from them information from which you can assess what their
28:55 values are. Okay, it's one thing to ask them, you know, what are your values? [snorts] It's another thing to ask them about, for example, how would you handle uh this particular situation? uh a a a customer or client calls you up, they're very upset, they're yelling and screaming. Um what are what are you going to do back? Okay. How are you going to prevent yourself from reacting negatively back? Right now, the person may say you person may say, "Well, if someone's yelling and
29:31 screaming at me, I'm going to yell and scream at them back." Okay. Now, by the way, um is that is that the process you want at your company? If it is, okay, good. So, you've gotten, you know, you've found out, okay, they hold a similar value to mine. You know, I'm going to take a tough stance against that and I'm if someone's abusing me, bang, you know, both, you know, 16inch guns go blazing. Or, you know, they may say, well, look, I mean, I may say to them a couple of times, please calm down. I'm happy to do my best to help
30:06 you with this, but it's I can't do that when you're screaming at me. Uh and and if if if I do that two or three times and they're still screaming, I'm going to say to them, you know what? This is not productive. So, I'm going to hang up now. I would ask you to take some time to calm down. Call me back. I'm happy to help you. right now. That's that's how I would want it handled if someone were working for me. On the one hand, I don't want them feeling like they have to take a lot of abuse from somebody. On the other hand, I don't want them dishing it
30:42 back out. Okay. So, again, when when when you know you're you're you know, having a meeting to discuss a job, these are the some of the techniques you can use to figure out what are the person's values rather than just directly asking them. Right? So [snorts] you should have three to five non-negotiable values for which you're looking before you hire the person. You need to be clear about your values before you can understand you know you
31:18 know what values you're looking for with someone that you're hiring. And that that takes time. It's not nearly as simple as you think. A lot of people say, "Well, my value is to be kind." Okay, what does that mean? What does that mean? Okay, most people I find when they talk about being kind, what they mean is being nice, right? Because sometimes if we're being kind to a person, it means we're going to have to be tough on them for their for their long more long-term benefit, right? So, you know, we need to
31:56 be careful not to allow ourselves to fall into cliches or assumptions about our values. We really need to dig deep to figure out what really are my values. Okay? And and and not just what I think they are. How do I act? And it'll I think it'll be a very interesting self discussion. what what you think your values are. Do you behave in accordance with those values? Now, of course, the answer is going to be not always. Okay, that's
32:32 that's fine. We don't always live up to our values, right? But we need to understand what they are and we need to hold ourselves accountable when we don't live up to our values. Okay? It's through that process that we get clarity on our own values and then can be clear in in what we're looking for with respect to the person that we're hiring. I'll just say as a again a little digression here for a moment. We're we're in the part of the the the Jewish year when we're we're we're doing what's
33:08 called counting the omare. It's a 49day uh period and it's designed specifically to examine our values. So there's seven key values and we examine each one of the each week, seven weeks, 49 days. We examine each one of those values with respect to the other six. So it's a very indepth process, right? And I I I you know, we go through this once a year. It's very very valuable to gain self-insight.
33:44 Okay. If you have any uh questions or about or interest in knowing more about that, by all means, you know, po feel free to post a comment uh you know to the episode or you can even uh send me an email. Uh okay. So values fit is a force multiplier. The opposite is a silent killer. Finally, the cost of a first wrong hire is exponential. Okay, it's pardon me. It's very likely
34:19 to have an impact on the viability of your company uh you know for a long long time. So, first of all, if you hire the wrong person, you're you're you're going to set your company back because you're presumably bringing someone in to help you move things forward. You bring in the wrong person. Not only are you not moving things forward, but that person is likely to impede your work, and so it's pulling you back as well. So, you're
34:54 losing ground rather than gaining ground. So, that's that's one detriment. Another is even if the person isn't causing you to lose ground, they're probably causing you to lose momentum because now you're going to have to fire that person and go back to the hiring process. And so, instead of being able to keep things moving, you're going to have to stop, reassess, you know, take a couple of steps back, find the right person, and then try and get moving again. as well. There can be potential reputational damage to your company. I
35:31 know I've been dealing with this issue of values, you know, a lot in this episode, but when someone does not reflect the values and culture of your company, people see it. They sense it. Okay? And generally speaking, if they're used to the culture as you present it and now somebody comes in that presents something different, they're probably not going to be comfortable with it. They may not like it, right? They're working with you probably because they
36:06 like and respect your values and culture. Okay? So to bring someone in who does not reflect that can cause them to think, well, what's going on here? This is maybe maybe, you know, Kevin isn't the person I thought he was. That kind of thing. That's reputational damage. So a a second factor in bringing in the wrong person is there's an emotional toll to firing somebody. Okay? And the longer the person has been there, the greater the emotional toll. Most of us
36:44 aren't, you know, like that TV show or you you're fired, you know, that kind of thing. Like so so cavalier about it. Uh it's a difficult thing to fire someone. Okay. Um I I was fired once in my life, although candidly I was trying to get fired, so it didn't bother me. Um but um the person who fired me started crying even as he was firing me right it it took a big emotional toll on him. That's when I realized that um the way I had handled it was was candidly not
37:20 appropriate. I was I was very early on in my career as a young guy um and and it was it was an object lesson for me. Right. [snorts] So, and the longer someone has been at your company, the harder it's going to be to fire them. So, uh you know, [clears throat] if if you see someone is not the right fit, take action early. It's it's not helping them out to let them stay in a job where they don't fit. It's not helping your company. It's not helping you. So, we we
37:55 have to be decisive in these moments. We have to be courageous in these moments. Okay? And the reluctance to fire them, it just prolongs the mistakes and it it makes it makes the potential reputational damage even worse, let alone the emotional fallout. Okay? So, hire slow, fire fast. Okay? That matters most with your first employee. Okay? Don't get caught up in in the thinking that you know firing a person is somehow
38:31 a failure on your part. You made a mistake. We all make mistakes. Okay. The best thing we can do when we make a mistake is to be mature about it. Acknowledge that we've made a mistake and correct it both for other people's benefits and for our own. Okay. So, your first hire, it's it's a it's a crucial decision. It's a very difficult decision and and hopefully today I've given you some thoughts on how to navigate that
39:08 process more successfully. So, I thank you very much for joining me and uh let's see my schedule of my shows. Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, trust and estates weekly. Tuesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, business lessons for the military. Wednesday, today 10 a.m. Pacific time, people making money. And then every other Thursday at 5:00 p p.m. Pacific time is my show, Jiggers's Place, where we sit back and have a cocktail and a schmoo, talk about all the things unrelated to finances. So, lots of opportunities for us to be
39:43 together each week. And I hope you will join me again. I haven't mentioned this for a while, but if you are not a subscriber to the show, whether it's YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast, you know, click that subscribe button. That way, you'll never miss an episode of the Way to Wow shows. So, uh, and then reiterating what I mentioned a moment ago, all the platforms, feel free to comment criticisms, always, uh, happy to read what you have to say about the show. if it's something personal. Um, my email address is in the
40:18 show notes as well and you can shoot me an email. So, thanks again for joining me today. Wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage at all times.