0:02 Who are you? And where are you going? What do you want? [Music] Hello and welcome to People Making Money. I'm your host, Kevin Bemmel, and I'm here every uh let's see, this is Wednesday. Think about it for a minute. I'm here every Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about job hunting, starting and running a business, and building wealth, the whole financial
0:37 side of of our lives. So, today I'm going to be talking about the psychology of holding cash. And uh I I think this is particularly apt because we're we're going through a a period of uncertainty, a lot of geopolitical events going on. um there's been a significant change in how um the uni the federal government approaches economic policy and it's during times of uh uncertainty that I
1:15 think people most often think or start thinking gosh you know how should I invest what should I invest all that kind of stuff so I have a few thoughts on on this subject that I thought I would share with you and um you know hopefully this will give you if not uh clarity it'll give you some some food for thought uh and that that will help you reach a a decision with which you're comfortable. I I will say as a as a global view of investing so I'm a big believer
1:52 in what I call the sleep test. So in general, uh I I tell people don't invest in something if you're not going to sleep well because you're invested in it, right? So, if it's the kind of thing where you have to be checking, you know, the market every 10 minutes or every five minutes or continually, or if it's something that you know, you know, so little about it that you're just constantly nervous about being invested in that particular thing, whatever it
2:28 is, maybe it's some sort of, I don't know, oil and gas investment, maybe it's real estate, maybe it's uh, you know, some sort of media project, you know, if if if it makes if if you've got if you're constantly feeling anxiety and you're not sleeping well because of it, that's that's not an investment that you you should have made or or should make in the future. Uh and and then um so that that's you know kind of the the the basis of at least how I fundamentally look at investing. And of course then that plays into the this whole
3:04 psychology of of holding cash, right? So I think there are some there there are psychological reasons and there are practical reasons why uh people hold cash. Uh and and I'm going to just talk about those. The reason I'm going like this is because as always I have my notes over here. I want to make sure that I convey to you all my thoughts. uh so I think the first the first sort of psychological and and there's also I think a practical side to this as well is uh a a sense of
3:39 of needing safety and security in their investments. So in in volatile times, volatile markets, um there's a fear of of of losing money, right? And so for many people, capital preservation, right? Maintaining the funds they invested, at least not losing those monies, uh is one of, if not the most important thing. And of course the the older you you are and the less time you have to recover from a significant investing mistake. So then the more
4:16 capital preservation looms large in your invest investment decisions, right? Um but but there there is a practical side of that, right? because some things just are inherently risky and they're very hard to judge with any sense of security. So, uh you know, people think about something like I don't know, Bitcoin or Bitcoin always goes up or real estate always goes up. Th those are not that's not true. They're even housing prices in California have
4:51 declined at times. Okay. So the reason we get a return on investment is because among other issues there is risk in putting the money in that investment. The return we get hopefully is commensurate with the risk. Now there are other reasons why we get a return on investment. We're tying our money up for a certain period of time and so we don't have the use of that money. uh the idea of ill liquidity and and the greater the illquidity of the investment the the higher that the premium should be because of that. But the bottom line is
5:28 in general the riskier the investment the higher the return you should be able to expect. Uh but that you know that presupposes that there's a fixed term to the investment which oftentimes there's not. And so, you know, to put your money in something that's very risky, that doesn't have uh that doesn't have a set term means that uh you know, there may come a time when you need to pull your money out of that investment because you need it for some other reason, you have an emergency or whatever. And so, you may have to pull it out a time out at a time when
6:05 the value of the investment maybe has fallen below even what you invested, right? So there so that that's a that's a practical side of the security and safety issue but you know people have different experiences. So people who lived through the uh 2008 um you know housing crash um or lived through a family bankruptcy or something like that. Right? So those those are sort of indivi well one is a a a sort of uh you know economic trauma the other is more of an individual trauma but those two
6:40 impact our tolerance for risk and our and our you know craving for safety and security. So so I think that's that's one aspect of it. The next is control and flexibility. So having cash means that you can respond to an emergency. You have the funds there. So you know, god forbid there's some sort of medical emergency or something like that. So uh you know having cash on hand means that you can take care of it if you have car repairs,
7:16 if there's damage to your house or where you're wherever you're you know wherever you're living, condo, apartment, whatever it is. um if you have a special event and you you want to go to you know a wedding or a kineros or something like that. So you have the money they have the cash available if you're holding cash um and so you have the control and flexibility that allows you to respond to those emergencies or um you know be a part of those those opportunities. So many people have the mindset that look cash gives me options and and I like
7:54 that. And so for someone for someone like that uh you know your cash cash position uh may be larger than someone else who you know for example might feel more perfectly comfortable. Well, look, if there's an emergency, uh, I'll put it on my credit card and I'll just and then I'll I've got 30 days to get the cash to pay that off or worst case scenario, I'll pay it off over a couple of months. Okay? Now, you you know, some people would tell you never do that. That's that's that's ridiculous to pay interest ever. Well, it depends, right? Um, you
8:32 know, if if if you've got a great investment opportunity, um, and you're getting a fantastic return on investment, um, you know, but it means that you're going to have perhaps more of your cash tied up than you might otherwise do in terms of keeping cash on hand for an emergency. Well, are you going to not make the investment uh um, and because an emergency might happen? How are you going to feel if you know maybe you know two years from now when the investment matures and you could have gotten that nice return there'd been no emergency
9:09 right so giving up the return on that investment in order to keep uh you know cash for an emergency may not have been the best decision right so in that case uh you know paying a month or two of interest on you know while you're paying off the balance or whatever might be a perfectlycept acceptable thing to do. Again, it depends on your particular perspective. It depends on your overall financial situation. So, control and flexibility is is both a psychological and a practical issue in as to whether you know you should hold cash. Okay? Um
9:46 and and you for for the reasons that I just outlined. Okay. Next, status and self-worth. So, uh, some people get a sense of, uh, um, self-worth really out of having a big bank balance, right? Um, I was talking with one of my clients, uh, earlier this week. Um, I'm this is a a new client and we were going over her various bank accounts and she has she has a checking account. Uh, well, she has two checking accounts. uh one that's
10:22 the one she uses for her checking and the other there's just basically a big sum of money sitting there, right? and and she you know she's she's and I was I I did you know I'm getting to know her from uh you know from the standpoint of how she likes her finances handled and you know and so I was I I had been wondering about well you know maybe she's just likes to have a lot of cash on hand in order to respond to emergency whatever. So, as we were talking about things, she said, you know, it's silly for me to have this big cash balance. I it should be in something earning some
10:58 kind of return. Okay. Well, there you go. Right. So, um it her motivation isn't the sort of status or sense of self-worth or the control issue of having a big cash balance. It was really just kind of, you know, inertia. She never got around to doing it. Um and and so, you know, this is something that we're we're going to take care of. So, but but and and by the way, this is no this is I don't mean I don't mean I don't mean a judgment on people who like the status of having uh a a big uh you know bank balance. There's nothing wrong
11:33 with that. If that's what if that's what makes you comfortable, if that's what helps you better make other decisions, perfectly perfectly fine, right? Look, it's your choice uh whether or not to to keep those balances. Um, and what I would do is not relevant to what what the decisions that you would make. Right? I'm giving you some thoughts right now. Maybe my thoughts will cause you to rethink holding a big cash balance, but there's nothing inherently wrong in doing that. if you know you
12:10 have something that's more important than you know squeezing out every last dime of return on the capital that you might otherwise invest. Perfectly legitimate you know decision. So you know then there and there's other sort of psychological aspects to liking liking having a large bank balance. So it gives it gives you a feeling it might give you a feeling of success or a feeling of freedom or independence. Right? So for someone who who grew up without you know a a lot of money um the
12:46 idea of having a a large bank account or or whatever that means in the context of that person's life it it may help them you know feel like you know look I I' I've really been able to raise myself up from my prior circumstances and that that's a great thing Right. Um hopefully we, you know, we all have an opportunity to do that. So status and self-worth is a psychological reason for holding cash. Valid or invalid. I think that again that comes down to the
13:22 individual. Okay. Next is a lack of trust or understanding about how investing works. And you know again this is a a common phenomenon. Fortunately, overall, I think we have a relatively poor level of um of financial literacy in the United States. So, I know when my when my daughter was um I think she was a freshman, freshman or sophomore in high school, uh she had a semester of personal finance. I I mean
13:58 it it was fine, but one semester in high school hardly makes us financially literate, right? And now in my case, my mother was a certified financial planner and an accountant, not a CPA, but an accountant. And uh so, you know, she knew a lot about handling money, a lot about investing. We would talk about things from time to time. oftentimes she worked for men who were very successful. Uh had done a lot of investing. I know she worked for a savings and loan at at
14:34 one point. I don't recall the name of it, but the fellow she worked for, his name was Robert Suabota. Um he was kind of legendary in Santa Barbara back in the 1970s and I think into the 1980s. and I I got the opportunity to talk to him uh several times over over the over the years that my mother worked, you know, in his com at his company. Um and he always always had, you know, good things to tell me, things that have helped me, you know, in my life going forward. Um in fact, he I think it was um Bob Savod who gave me a book called
15:10 The Richest Man in Babylon, one of the best books I've ever read on investings. Uh, and if if you if you were to search through um my shows, I I did a show on on the uh the richest man in Babylon. Um the book has been around now for I think over half a century. It's it's an amazing book about investing. Very simple, right? Um and and so you know, but but a lot of people don't have those kind of opportunities. And so where does that knowledge come from? And if they don't have that that lo that knowledge
15:46 if they and it's it's hard to trust in a system um and there's so much talk today about the system being rigged uh in favor of large investors. Uh so for for smaller investors like us that may mean that we just don't trust that we're going to be able to invest successfully and so then we we hold on to our cash. Now I think the remedy there is to get ourselves educated, right? Read books, listen to podcasts, uh talk to friends
16:22 who have done investing and and and and learn about their experiences. Um talk to people who are involved in investment advising. Okay? Even if someone is uh if if let's say you meet someone who's in investing advi advising and you know you're just not you don't have enough money to be their client they they they would probably still at least talk to you a little bit share some basic information maybe refer you to someone that you know is is better able to work
16:58 with you at the level at which you're currently at. Okay. and and and that's the name of the game. And and by the way, you can tell a good investment advisor because that person will take the time to help you even if it doesn't mean that that you're not going to be his client. He'll still take a few minutes to help you and see that that you're at least connected to someone who for whom you you are potentially the right kind of client fit. or uh go back to last week's uh episode of that of
17:33 people making money uh when I interviewed um oh gosh I'm I'm going up on his name now here I have to get it for you now. Uh here we go. Uh when I interviewed uh Michael Scarpati um who um built a um financial literacy uh website, right? It's it's designed specifically for the 99% of us, right? And uh and and it's it's only a very very small investment uh you know or cost to use his service
18:10 um that that will give you tremendous return in terms of knowledge and connecting you with people who can really help you and and people that you can you can trust and and and your trust can grow as you continue to work together. That's really, you know, the name of the game, so to speak. So, uh, while it can all be daunting, start out small. My first investment was some money from that I that I got as gifts for my bar mitzvah that I put into a savings and loan when I was a kid in Santa Barbara. I can I still remember
18:47 they had these banks, you know, made ceramic banks that they would give out to kids. You would put your coins in it. It was shaped like a lantern. I I loved it. I wish I still had it. I I'm I'm sure the savings alone isn't there anymore, but uh you know, I used to put pennies and nickels and dimes, whatever it was in it. And then every whatever, you know, period of time, my mom or dad would take me to the savings alone and I'd put it in my savings account. I started doing that once I put my bar mitzvah money in there. And and I had a little book where they recorded what my balance was. I'd look at it all the
19:22 time. I was I you know back then we're probably talking like 10 $15 which may not sound like a whole lot but to a you know to a I was you know 13 years old it was it was very cool to me right uh so there's ways to start out you know opening up a what used to be called a passbook account or a savings account or a money market account nowadays very safe way to invest and just just get you going kind of get your hand you know in the game so to speak. And then you can you can learn more and gain greater
19:57 trust in your ability to make sound investment decisions and and and not not feel like you necessarily need to hold hold cash because you don't you don't trust or understand how investing in the markets work. And then finally, um you may have a shortterm goal. Uh so maybe you're you know saving up for a car or maybe you're saving up the down payment for a house or to take a vacation or tuition to go to school right so while you know it may seem like
20:32 you know I'm just going to hold this money in cash that's the smart decision but depending how far away that particular purchase is it may not make sense to hold cash even though it seems like it. So you maybe better to put it in a money market and at least get a you know few percent return, you know, even if it's only going to be six months. Um look, that's better than as I used to say a a jab in the eye with a pointed stick. So um so whether you hold cash or not to pursue a
21:07 short-term goal, it depends just how shortterm it is. If the goal is next month, okay, fine. So yeah, you're probably going to want it in cash. if the goal is six months or nine months or 12 months down the road. So then holding cash may not make sense. However, psychologically it seems like oh, you know, it's not worth the effort to put the put the cash anywhere because 69 12 months from now I'm going to need it anyway. These days because so much banking and investing is done online. So it can take just a few minutes to put
21:42 the money into a money market or some other vehicle where you can get some kind of return rather than holding it strictly as cash. Okay. So I think those are those are some of the psychological slash uh practical reasons why people hold cash. So let's take a break and when we come back talk about some you know wise and why nots of of holding cash. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties
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22:54 So this is people making money. I'm your host Kevin Bemel. We're talking about the psychology and also kind of the practical side of holding cash. So um before the break I I talked about some of the reasons psychological and practical that people do hold cash. So now I want to talk about when it makes sense to hold cash and and when it doesn't make sense. Okay. And then this is going to relate to some of the issues that I was talking about. So uh when when should you hold cash? Well, in
23:29 general, it's good to have uh a fully funded emergency fund. Now, you'll see different recommendations on this uh anywhere from a 3 to sixmonth uh margin. I think a lot of that depends on what your situation is. If you're married, if you have children, if you're the sole provider for your family, you may want to have a larger emergency fund because you don't have, for example, a a spouse who's working who can uh, you know, take on or who's who's already, you know,
24:04 taking on part of the financial um well-being of your family. Okay. So um on the other hand, if you're single, you know, you have few if any obligations, so I don't know, and you're young, you're in good health, so maybe two months is enough, right? Uh but but in in in in any event um it it is a good idea to have some cash on hand for emergencies um where you know you're injured and you can't work for a short time or um like like I said in the in the beginning of the show there's your car gets damaged
24:41 and it's insurance doesn't cover it or your house gets you know damaged and again insurance doesn't cover it these kind of things. So um it's good to have a fully funded emergency fund. how much of that should be held in cash. So, that'll depend on your circumstances. Okay. Um, if you're saving for a major purchase and as I was saying right before the break and that purchase is coming up in, you know, one, two, maybe three months. So then, you know, it may not be worth the hassle of of setting up
25:16 a kind of, you know, an investment account, especially if you, let's say you're saving up for a vacation and the vacation is going to cost $5,000. Okay? So, I mean, yeah, you could put it in a money market, maybe over a 12month period, you might make on $5,000, you know, $20 or something like that. Is it really worth your time uh to you know go and you know open a money market and put the money in and all that kind of stuff? May maybe not. Uh on the other hand if your uh major purchase is farther
25:54 down the road like I said 6 n 12 months or more. Okay. So then uh it it it makes sense not to hold the money in cash. Minimally at least put it in uh a money market. Okay. Now some people say well a money market is cash. Well yes but it's not a checking account although there are check writing you know features on money markets. But when I say cash I mean holding money you know without any kind of return on it. Okay. So uh you
26:29 know if if and and the other thing is while we may anticipate reaching a goal in let's say 6 months things happen and sometimes we're not able to reach the goal in 6 months it's going to take us another 3 months we would have been better off putting the money somewhere where we can make a return. So, especially if you have a little bit of flexibility as to when you actually execute on your goal, right? So, let's say your goal, you you know, you have a six-month goal to go on a, you know, a very nice vacation. You're going to be
27:05 saving up $25,000 to go on this vacation. Um, and and you know, it's you want to go during the summertime. Well, there's three months in the summertime. So, you know, if if if you're starting in January, maybe you'll put it in some kind of investment that has a six-month term. Okay? And and so, you know, the money will be available to you January, March, April, May, June. So, you know, sometime, you know, uh very early July, the six months will be up and that'll that'll be fine. You can go on vacation later in July or August, something like
27:41 that. Um and and and that way you're getting the benefit of making a somewhat of a term investment which should give you a little bit better return on your investment. And if for some reason it turns out you can't go on the vacation. Well, so then you know it's it's doubly better that you've you've put your money into some kind of term investment because otherwise you know now let's say it's going to be another six months or another year before you can go uh because you're not you're now you're going to go the following summer. Okay, great. So you'll you know at least you
28:17 didn't lose holding the money for the initial six months. Okay. So, you know, if if a major purchase is imminent, then you may want to hold it in cash. Otherwise, you know, probably better um to not hold it in cash. Okay. Um if if you are looking if if you have your own business, okay, and you need to have flexibility to be able to take care of opportunities in your business. So, um I I was talking not talking but um I was communicating with someone who's who u
28:54 um buys and sells equipment and machinery. Um, she was telling me about uh her business and uh she you know she most people who do that and this is what made me think of it is most people who do that they keep kind of a pile of cash on hand because if a particular particularly good opportunity comes along to buy something at a particularly favorable price on their own account, people do that. People in that business do that. they'll buy it and then they'll turn around and sell it and and make a larger profit
29:31 than if they just brokered it to someone else. Okay? And there's lots of businesses like that where there's an opportunity to act as a broker on the one hand and as a principal on the other. And so in that case, you may keep a a fairly significant amount of cash in your business in order to be able to take advantage of those opportunities. And any return that you would give up because the money is not, you know, in some sort of term investment, it doesn't matter because the return you're going to make on an opportunistic basis is so
30:07 large that it it dwarfs what you might otherwise have given up. Okay? There are people real estate investors who who keep a you know significant amount of money uh in cash and that's for the same reason because they're opportunistic and they want to be able to take care of take not take care of sorry take advantage of those opportunities. Okay. And then finally and I mentioned this also before the break as you get closer to retirement. So while you won't necessarily hold your money literally in cash, uh the types of
30:43 investments in which that that you make are probably going to be different in terms of their level of security of capital preservation than they would be when you were younger. Okay, so these are some thoughts about you know when holding cash uh makes sense. Now, um, when should you not hold cash, right? And and I've got several thoughts on that. So, first of all, it's it's generally I mean, generally speaking, if you're if you're holding on to cash because you're afraid or because
31:21 you're afraid. So, really, the issue there is to work through your fear. What are you afraid of? Why? Okay. If it's lack of knowledge, that can be worked out. If it's trauma from a prior uh financial situation that worked out badly, that can be worked through as well. Okay. So, most of the things we fear, it's it's not that the fear is irrational. I some people would say that I do not. Fear is is oftentimes very rational. However, fear will sometimes
31:57 cause us to act in a way that's not in our best interests. So rather than let letting ourselves be controlled by fear, the idea is to work it through and and that way we can have a a larger range of options that may put us in a position to do something better for ourselves. Okay. Now fear is different than indecision. Okay. So, sometimes indecision is not a reason to hold on to cash. Okay. And oftentimes
32:35 indecision is the cloak that's been put over fear. And so, we've got to look through that indecision to really understand what's causing the indecision. Is the indecision being caused by volatility in the economy? Volatility in let's say the stock market or volatility as strange as this may sound volatility in real estate. Real estate can go through periods of volatility. Okay? Or whatever other investing sector you can think of. So if your indecision is
33:11 because of volatility for example, so that's a prudent indecision, right? because the the nature of volatility is it's very hard to make a decision because things are changing all the time. Okay. So, so if you're if you're indecisive for a good reason, so then hang on to your cash. That may that may very well be the best decision. On the other hand, if you can't put a good re if if there's not a good reason underpinning your indecision,
33:47 that's a sign that you that you probably need to work through that just like you would fear and get beyond it so that you can go go on to make prudent investment decisions. Okay. So fear and indecision they c they may be working together. They may me need to be dealt with in a similar way, okay? But each needs to be examined o on its own to figure out what you need to do to work them through. Okay? But in general, if fear and indecision is causing you to hold on to your cash, that's probably not or that
34:24 may I shouldn't say probably, it may may very well not be the best decision and it's time to work through it. Okay. um when holding on. So if if you're if you're in a high inflationary period like we were back uh what was it 2021 22 when inflation went as high as 9% right to hold on to cash in a high inflationary environment means your money is literally losing purchasing power. Okay. So while you know money markets weren't
35:00 keeping pace with inflation, their rates did go up to four 5%. So at least you weren't losing all the ground, right? You were still losing some ground. That's the nature of inflation. But as inflation keeps up, generally speaking, it's a bad policy to hang on to cash because that cash is losing value as as inflation creeps up and as inflation gets as the inflationary period gets longer and longer. Okay? So, uh you know, there's a lot of talk about inflation. Now, the kind of inflation
35:36 that we're talking about right now, this is not a high inflationary period, right? We're we're talking about inflation in the you know two to three percent area. Okay. By by any historical measure that's that's not inflationary. Okay. It may be higher than what the Federal Reserve wants to see or whatever that okay those those fine but but we're not in a high inflationary period. On the other hand, we are in a period where um we we can um often times make pretty
36:11 sound investments that will keep pace with or even beat inflation by at least a little bit, right? And so there's no reason to hang on to cash in this environment um you know due to anything related to inflation. Okay. All right. Um it also doesn't make sense to hold on to cash and not take advantage of compounded growth. Right? So in terms of a long-term investing strategy, okay, the best thing to do is to invest early and
36:49 regularly in whatever your overall investment plan is because as while in the very early time the the growth due to a return on investment is relatively small that growth compounds. So going from year to year and 5year to 5year and 10 year to 10 year looking at it over those longer time horizons. So what starts happening is you start earning interest on your interest. That's what compound interest means.
37:24 Okay? But even if you're not getting an interest paying uh uh investment, maybe you you own some equities, some stocks and they're paying dividends. I know when I was younger, still do to this day, I always made it a a point to just reinvest my dividends to buy more stock. The dividends were small anyway, you know, a few dollars here or there. I remember when I was in high school, I won a scholarship that was sponsored by a company at the time known as Southern California Edison, one of the big private utilities here in uh California.
38:01 And I for being a finalist, I got one share of stock. And then for winning one of I think it was five scholarships, I got a second share of stock. So I had two shares of stock uh at when I was I believe 17 years old was when this happened. Okay. And I from the beginning I reinvested my dividends in in buying more Southern California Edison stock. Uh 40 years later, okay, that stock had grown to I think 50 shares, right? So it
38:38 had gone up by 25 times. Now it wasn't due solely to uh to dividends. There was a stock split at one point. Um, but by just, you know, letting the the investment compound over a long period of time, the stock when I got it, I think was worth, I want to say around $20. And when I finally sold it about uh 40 years later, it was worth uh close to $1,000. That's the power of compounding. Okay.
39:16 So, you know, rather than let your money sit in cash, take advantage of the of the compounding growth that investing provides to you. Okay? And finally, holding cash without a clear strategy, without a clear need for holding the cash like those that I mentioned a little while ago, that does not make sense. Okay? So you you know you may be holding you may be h holding higher than whatever typical is cash balances because you want a feeling of security.
39:52 You want to have that sense of of of of self-worth. Okay. Fine. There there is that's an actual there's a purpose behind that. Okay. The question is how much cash are you going to hold in order to satisfy those the purpose of those psychological needs. Right? And so that's where having both a purpose and a strategy is important. Okay. So don't let one conquer the other. It's it's from my perspective perfectly fine to hold on to cash for psychological
40:28 reasons. We are emotional human beings, right? And so psychology is important to us. U so but we don't want to do it willy-nilly. We want to have a strategy behind that. nor should we develop a strategy that does not take into account our emotional u um our emotional position right like I said that's where the sleep factor comes in okay so to hold cash without a clear purpose or strategy ill advised okay but it's easy relatively easy to cure figure out your
41:05 purpose figure out your strategy okay and then you'll be able to start investing uh investing your cash with confidence. So, those are my thoughts for today. Uh as as always, would be very interested to hear yours. Um all my social media links will be in the show when it posts on YouTube. Happy to hear from you. If you like the show, uh do me a favor and if you know someone who you think would benefit from it, do me a favor and and suggest it to them. I' I' I'd love to have an opportunity to gain them as as a viewer and even a
41:40 subscriber. And by the way, if you are a viewer and you haven't subscribed to my YouTube channel, I haven't mentioned this in a long time, but I I would um you know, I'd be very honored if you would be uh if you would subscribe to the Way to Wow shows. So, thank you so much for joining me, especially my live viewers. Uh tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Pacific time is my show, Jiggers's Place. We're going to have a cocktail and a schmooz as we head toward the end of the week. And then next week, Monday, these are all Pacific time. Monday at 10:00 a.m. is my show, Trust and Estates
42:15 Weekly. Tuesday at 10 a.m. is my show, Business Lessons from the Military. And then a week from today, I'll be back with the next edition of People Making Money. So, thanks again for joining me. Wishing you a wonderful rest of the day. And signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell.