0:02 Who are you and where are you going? What do you want? [Music] Hello and welcome to Trust and Estates Weekly. I'm your host, Kevin Bemel, and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time. And and today is kind of a special show because I I I get to have on the show today uh uh two of my my my clients basically not not technically
0:39 not so but they're the two heirs to an estate that I've been administrating for about an hour and a half. I'm sorry an hour and a half listen to me for about a year and a half. And oh gosh, you know, see, first rule of podcasting, always get a good night's sleep. So, I've been administrating the estate of which they're the heirs for about a year and a half now. And uh Max and Briana Morazz, we've gotten to know each other over that year and a half. And I've told them this several times that
1:16 they are the ideal client. I mean, they really are um because they ask a lot of questions and the worst thing for an administrator of an estate is to have to administrate an estate blind. And I will add that they're always polite when they ask the questions. So, I I have estates where people ask questions, but the underlying message of of the questions is you're such an incompetent fool. you know, I have to ask you this thing, right? So, uh, you
1:51 know, that is that is not the case here. So, so, Max, Briana, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
1:57 >> Thanks for having us, Kevin. We appreciate it.
2:00 >> Yeah. So, so just to give uh the viewers just a little bit of background about the two of you, maybe, you know, take a minute or so and and talk about just, you know, who you are, kind of what what you were doing before, uh, you know, this whole process started because I I think that's relevant uh to to people who are watching like you're not you know, Rockefeller ers or something where you're just kind of sitting around waiting for, you know, someone to pass away knowing that
2:35 there's going to be, you know, a multi-billion dollar wealth transfer or something like that. So, talk a little bit about that if you would.
2:44 >> Um, well, my name is Max. I graduated from the United States Military Academy from 2014. I went into the army for a little bit and I end up getting out early because basically my knees gave out on me. Um, after getting out of the army, I tried to get into the GIS world, but at the time just wasn't possible. So, I switched to IT and I worked uh at the Pentagon for a little bit with the Marine Corps and then I hopped over to Defense Logistics Agency and I worked with them for years and um recently left that to, you know, work on the kids.
3:19 >> Um, of course, I'm Brianna, Max's wife, uh, as you already introduced Kevin. Um my background is I uh graduated at George Mason University. Um was focusing on global affairs was very interested in international studies. Um my career did take me in the path of department of defense. So I have um some background uh several years working department of defense also um US aid a little bit of state department um and um until recently until uh so I guess part of the background includes um where the estate is coming
3:54 from is is Max's father um and he unexpectedly um passed uh it's almost coming up on two years now. Yeah. Um and uh we are inheriting an estate that was very unexpected. Um and so we are very fortunate and and very grateful in that um but we were very overwhelmed when once we found out um the the size of the estate um and unfortunately which I'm sure we'll get to. I'm not trying to jump the gun here,
4:30 Kevin, per se, but um knowing that there was no no will associated with the estate and trying to jump all of the hurdles with that. So, we came from, I want to say, a very normal everyday type workingass um background, uh thrown into a world that we had no idea about. Mac certainly wasn't expecting. Um, and so it has been um, an adventure to say the least in as we try to navigate through this this process as we are continuing to do so. But at least we're past the initial I
5:07 guess hurdle of the of the craziness of oh my gosh, what is going on? What do we need to do? It seems like everything is on fire and we have no idea what we're doing. So
5:17 >> yeah. So, and one of the things that I found most fascinating about this situation at least is so we met through um um your father's longtime lawyer, Michael Abramson. Uh and uh so I wasn't involved when you know Michael made the call to let you know you know what had happened to your your father Max. Uh, one of the things I find kind of fascinating about this is you had no idea that um that that your father had
5:52 accumulated the kind of wealth that he had. And
5:56 >> it was really interesting. Um, when we showed up, I knew my dad had a little bit of money. Like I thought maybe around a million, two million. And when I was talking with Michael Abramson, he thought the same thing. Um, and yeah, it was kind of surprise for everybody. Like it was we were all blindsided.
6:17 >> Yeah. And and I I never, you know, got to meet your dad. Um, but, you know, I've seen where he lived, the loft he had downtown. I've seen, you know, the house that he has in in West Hollywood. And nobody would look at those and go, "Oh, you know, wow, this is some, you know, fancy guy, right? He his I mean, he has a he had a really cool kitchen in the loft where I understood he used to like make big Italian meals and such, but that's very this is very middle class, you know, kind of way of living."
6:52 uh and and you know I've talked with um I've talked with various advisors you know as guests on the show and they one of the things they stress is you know if if someone is is estate planning they they need to sort of socialize what they're doing with the beneficiaries and the heirs and evidently I I I guess that that didn't happen in in your case is that uh
7:17 >> yeah I he never mentioned anything about it he kept his business very personal to him and yes I I didn't know what was going on. I had no idea.
7:28 >> So I I don't want to you know sort of bring up painful memories but what was it like to you know get that that call from Michael and realize not just that you know your father had passed your your father-in-law had passed but that there was going to be this sort of big process that was going to go on. How how did that impact you?
7:58 >> Um, honestly, at first when I got the call, I thought it was some kind of joke cuz my dad was a very strong individual. I mean, he was waking up at what 5:'lock in the morning, hitting the gym every single day. So, I thought he would live for quite a while longer. So, originally, I thought it was a joke until the realization hit that he had passed. and I kind of froze for a bit. I didn't really know what to do. Um, yeah, I was a a very struggle that night.
8:29 >> Yeah, I remember he came in and um and it was the middle of the night and and woke me up and and had told me that his his father had passed and like he was saying with the frozen state like just like the look of shock on his face and he was just kind of standing there like I I don't even I don't even know what to do next. I I mean, poor Max. How wanting to grieve his father, but then also knowing in the back of his mind that his father did run a business that had several employees and this was a Sunday night going into a Monday morning. So, we're saying those employees are going to show up to um work the next morning and and say, "Well, where's Mike and
9:06 what what are we going to do?" and and so it it almost felt like Max didn't get the proper time to to grieve his the passing the unexpected at that passing of his father and immediately had to think well there are other lives here that this is affecting as well and a business and so we've got to figure out what is the next step and so yeah it was it was a struggle on on several different levels personally um and also business-wise too and that I think that was the next step was trying to figure out who did did he have like a next in line of who to call if for some reason something happened with him or the
9:42 business. And I think we we somehow I don't I don't remember how we got Michael's contact information.
9:49 >> I think he might have called me
9:50 >> or if he called I don't remember exactly how it came about. I think we were trying to get in touch with him. Um and then later in the morning because the other thing too is on the east coast we're three hours ahead of the West Coast too. So, it did give us a leg up and that we had a little more more morning hours before everyone started I think shuffling into work. But I remember us being frantically being like we need to get in contact with with Michael knowing he was or we had somehow found out that he was a lawyer. We were like we think that's the best case at this point because we we have no idea the lawyer is probably going to be the best person especially one that was
10:25 actually Michael's um loyal lawyer to figure out what the next steps are here.
10:30 >> Yeah. I I I I have to this this struck me as you were talking about how you what was going on with you when you got the news that you know the first thought is oh gosh my father has died and then your next thought is wait there's all these people that is sort of that is such a part as a as a military guy myself right that's such a part of the officer's ethos it's like can't worry about me have to worry about my people right
10:58 >> um and and you know for for people who who aren't around that mindset, it may sound a little bit weird, right? Okay, gotta put this over here. Can't really, you know, deal with my grief. There's people showing up at the office, you know, that that that whole thing. Uh, I would add though, and correct me if I'm wrong, you at least knew the two key ladies who Yes.
11:25 >> worked with your father. You had known you had known them, I guess, when you were a child.
11:29 >> Yes. I kind of grew up with them.
11:31 >> Okay. Yeah. So there was a connection there. It wasn't like they were totally strangers. Nonetheless, the the responsibility is the same.
11:40 >> So So you you know you're in touch with your father's lawy lawyer, Michael. A
11:46 >> and um how did that um either allay your concerns or increase your concerns? because you you know I can imagine it could have gone either way. Nothing against Michael. Michael's a longtime friend of mine and I think he's a wonderful lawyer. But of course there's all this stuff and it's like okay well since we're talking you know you know let me dump all this out so you can sort of see what what needs to happen.
12:17 >> Well for me it was like you know at the time I didn't know that uh Michael was working my father for what almost 30 years. I had no idea. I was just told basically here's here's his lawyer. And I was like, well, I don't know who I can trust at this point in time because I know there's a a somewhat amount or a decent amount of money involved. I was like, I just don't know who to trust. I don't know who I can lean on at this moment in time. And the other thing I was thinking about too is like, how am I going to pay for this?
12:45 >> Because we don't we didn't have the money to handle this. And
12:49 >> at first it was a little bit of discussion about his retainer fee and we're like, we can't afford the retainer fee. So what are we going to do?
12:55 >> And we we worked it out very easily, but
12:57 >> it all worked out in the end. But yeah, I I want to say that that was like the financial aspect of everything knowing especially as we found out the size of the estate and then it was it was more than a oh we we we need to go to probate and deal and that requires a probate lawyer. The the bigger and the more and more that we found out it was like well we need this specialist to help us and this specialist does. So, like different types of lawyers and fiduciary and and of course the the bigger the team grows, we're just saying like chuch-ching, chuch-ching, chuch-ching. And we're like, we don't is this stuff we have to pay for up front because we we can't do that. So, I do there was actually a
13:32 point in time where I like broke down in the kitchen crying at one point. So, I was like, Max, I don't know how we're going to pay for any of this. We we don't have the money for this. We're we're working class. We're we're doing the best we can with our kids. So, that was like a huge concern for us in the beginning, too, was of course we want we need Michael's help. we we we want to do right by the business by the the employees of the business uh by us as well and so and we know we need the help um because we don't have the knowledge of anything so but at the end of the day how how can we pay for this financially and um we I mean again everything worked
14:08 out but like that was a a very big concern
14:12 >> in the in the beginning so um it's yeah as as we said.
14:18 >> Yeah. So I I mean in in indeed as I thought might be the case at at first it was it was like the challenges seem to be mounting and getting greater and greater and and and it's it it it's it's like they keep packing more rocks into your backpack, right? Uh and and I think this is one of the challen by the way looking at it from my perspective. This is one of the challenges of especially in intestate probate is since there hasn't been any planning no one really knows what's going to happen. And of course probate is essentially
14:54 set up to protect the estate and the heirs. And so, you know, uh, you know, people involved in that, they they know as a matter of course that payment comes when the work is done as opposed to upfront. But I I wouldn't guess that there's more than, you know, a small percentage of people outside of the probate system who knows how how it works. So, I I can just tell you in in my own case, um, you know, I don't I don't usually talk about this, but having been going through a divorce during this time and you know, my my
15:33 ex's lawyer keeps saying, "Well, you're doing probates. You must be getting paid." I'm like, "No, it's not how it works.
15:41 >> Go talk to one of the judges in the probate court. They'll tell you. I get paid when it's done." You know, like, "What are you getting paid?" I'm like, the judge decides, you know, that's that's just part of how it works. But
15:54 >> like I said, I don't think most people understand that. And so it looms like, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do. But then
16:02 >> paying for professionals who do, where is that where's that money coming from? Right. So
16:07 >> I can understand that creates a lot of anxiety.
16:11 >> It did. Absolutely. And there was a a point um where because I I know you were asking about how what did what was our first thought and then how did kind of everything go from there. We did Max ended up flying out to California cuz we of course wanted to be there. Um we we were hoping that we could be there for the funeral and ended up I guess several weeks for it to actually happen, but Max was out almost immediately and then the um our children and I followed um and there was a meeting that Max attended with Michael and um several other professionals as well
16:47 >> um to sit down and and be like, "Okay, what do we have? What information do we have? And where do we go from here?" And I think once Max had sat down, I would say arguably that that meeting helped kind of like like settle us because we had like a better or at least Max I I wasn't there. I couldn't attend. I was flying in that day. Um but I think when Max and I talked on the phone about it afterwards, he was it's things we were like, "Okay, I think we've got a better handle. We're understanding now that we've got we've talked to Michael in person. we've got a couple other professionals that were helping us and
17:22 that that again his father knew um and it made it easier to go from there and I think after that is then when Michael started I think he reached out to you Kevin um to be our fiduciary
17:35 >> because he was bringing up he's like do you want to be the admin administrator of the estate or do you want to hire someone and I know my mother was pushing for me to do it because it would save a lot of money but at the same time I don't have that experience or skill set to do that and you know one wrong move can cause a lot of issues. So I told Michael I was like, "Hey, I'm not comfortable doing it. Can we find someone?" And sure enough, that was you.
18:03 >> That was me. I remember getting a It was either a call or an email now. Yeah. So, you know what? Let's take a quick break for a sponsor. A sponsor you will recognize and we'll be right back.
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18:51 today at 213264396 or visit magnumprops.com. Yeah. So, we've been talking about the company that um you know that that that uh your father-in-law left behind. That's that's Magnum Properties, which uh and and a testifier really, you know, has learned how to deal with uh uh you know, prop dealing with properties and and going through probate and especially a frankly a a fairly chaotic probate, especially in the beginning. So,
19:28 >> yeah. Yeah. So, um, so now what was it like to have this guy you've never met, right? Know nothing about, i.e. me, right, brought in to to handle this? And I don't mean like, you know, oh, Kevin, you did a great job. I'm It's nice, but I'm I'm just What was it like to have a stranger? what was going on in your head? Like, okay, well, now we've got this strange guy who basically has, you
20:03 know, cognizance over all of this money that, you know, we're supposed to inherit at some point. Talk to talk to us about that if you would.
20:13 >> Honestly, it was nerve-wracking. um here's someone that has the keys to everything at this point and can do anything he wants to do even though you know it's supposed to be for the beneficiary of this state but at the same time like you know you get a bad apple and they can do a lot of damage. Um, so I was very nervous at first, but then I remembered, you know, hey, this is someone that Michael Averson recommended and my dad knowing my dad, he wouldn't tr if he he wouldn't work with someone
20:49 he trust. And the fact that him and my father had worked for 30 years together says a lot. So, I kind of just had a chain of trust at that point and said, "Well, if my father trusted Michael and Michael trusts this new administrator, then I need to put my trust into him as well because if I don't, then we're not going to have a good relationship and we can't move forward with this estate." Um, Michael also sent us your your bio, Kevin, and we so we saw your website and I think it also helped when when we saw that you were prior DoD and so we're like, okay, we'll probably work well
21:25 with him since we all have that experience as well. we can understand when we some of the jargon the military speaks and and I think the humor that comes with military because as I was mentioning previously having worked across in DoD, state, US aid, um I loved working in DOT because of of the humor I feel like that we could all relate upon. And so I I knew and and Max and I are do have that humor and can be very sarcastic at times, not in the mean way. as as you've mentioned.
22:00 Um, so I I to be honest, I think that that helped too. Um, I because I I don't remember if if uh Michael only recommended you, Kevin, or if he showed us I don't think so. I think he
22:14 >> I think you were the only one. I think unless there were some I don't think so because yeah
22:21 >> there were
22:22 >> it didn't put you off that I was Navy and you were army
22:26 >> we had been we had been beating you in football lately so it's fine
22:34 >> Ouch I'm sorry what were you gonna say Brianna
22:38 >> um I I'm I'm blinking now because of course Max had to make that that army
22:45 >> we're No. So I I think what I'm confusing with with when it comes to um whether there was if we saw other bios and who we might pick um I I'm confusing that was when you actually helped us and and you as you looked at the estate and you were saying okay I think you're going to need like financial advisor etc etc etc and and that's where I'm confusing when we're going through a couple who might work best for us. So, yeah, I think the fact that that Michael Abramson recommended you and we knew Max's father had such a long-standing um relationship with him and the couple times that we chatted with him directly
23:20 after Max's father passed and we could tell um that he was professional. He I mean we just can't I think the the key here for us is we are relying a lot off of Max's father's trust and knowing he was a good business man and so he he was doing something right with the estate. Right. So we are are doing our best to to follow in his shoes to try to make the right decisions. And so we said okay we we need to trust um and and that we know we can't do this ourselves. We need someone to help us. and we're not going
23:57 to immediately like cut someone down as soon as they start working for us because we don't we don't know the business either. So, um I think that's that's kind of how everything came about in the beginning and and our trust and then of course we've been as you mentioned we've been working with you for the past year and a half and so trust has continued to be built that last year and a half. Um but it it was very in the beginning it was very confusing, nerve-wracking. We didn't really understand it. We didn't know what to expect. Um, and so I do feel like in the beginning when you were first reaching out to us and sending us reports, we were very quiet. Um, because we we just didn't know how to respond.
24:34 >> Yeah.
24:34 >> If we could ask the questions, what should or shouldn't we ask? Um, and so now we've built up that relationship more and so we are more open and and free with our questions. And yeah, it's it's it's helped because in the beginning we we were just like, dear in the headlights, I have no idea what's going on. I don't know what to do. I you know it's and it's interesting because um I I I send out weekly reports on all of the cases that I that I handle and I was talking with somebody maybe I don't know a couple of months ago and and this is a lawyer who does a lot of uh probate work and he's like wait you
25:09 do what I said yeah I sent out a weekly report on all like you know so people involved know what's going on he's like why do you do that like I don't know it seems like good for people to know what's going on, right? He's like, "Oh, that sure makes a lot of sense. I wonder why other I wonder why other administrators don't do that." I'm like, "I don't know." Said, "If I'm doing something stupid, I'd rather know about it sooner than later."
25:38 >> No, I mean, and I think that those weekly reports have really helped us keep us calm, too. And because then we're we have an idea of what's going on, where the estate's at. Um I I feel like you would be receiving a lot more frantic phone calls from us if we weren't getting those
25:55 >> emails. Um so I I those are have been very helpful for us
26:02 >> and even just again because we we didn't truly understand the expanse of the estate and so even for us just to to keep up with it and
26:11 >> and have a better understanding with it um and and start to memorize some of these different properties and and such. So, it it has been extremely helpful having those and and it also opens up communicate. It makes it easier for us to communicate with you, too. So, I I do appreciate all of those. It's just been helpful all around.
26:30 >> So, I I and I again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I I I think it was maybe we'd been into the administration, the estate for maybe a couple of months and we had kind of a big it was a virtual meeting, but um I know you know both of you were there obviously. I was there. Michael, I think um uh our real the our real estate broker Bill Gross was there. There may have been one or two other people there. Um and we kind of went through by then I had at least somewhat gotten my arms around the estate. A as I'm sure you can appreciate when
27:06 somebody dies in testate uh it's a much more complicated task to understand the extent of the holdings and and all of the issues because nothing's defined and so uh it's a matter of it it it's really like being a detective and figuring it all out. So, we had this big pow and I think I made a couple of remarks that probably would only be said in a like a, you know, a staff meeting of a military unit, right? And the three of us are laughing and the other people in the
27:41 meeting are kind of like
27:49 >> natural to me, right?
27:51 >> Yeah. Yeah. I I thought it was great. That was hilarious. But again, I do I do really I did notice a big difference between the humor when I was at like State Department USA as compared to when you're in DoD. I don't know. I don't know why because not that I didn't love working for State and USA. I absolutely enjoyed it, but there is something different about the humor. Um, and that is exactly the humor Max and I have.
28:15 >> There's a certain authenticity to it. And
28:17 >> yes,
28:18 >> you know, I I think because of the the just the military millio where look, you don't even have to be in a combat zone for bad things to happen, right? So you you sort of you're you're you're living in that environment and and the I I think the closest thing I've found to it is is when I used to listen to my ex talk to other people in the medical profession, some of the things they would say would be like, "Wow. I'm glad you're not working on me right now.
28:53 >> My My ex used to tell me she liked working in PACU because she liked her patients come to, you know,
29:00 >> that seems pretty harsh to me. But on the other hand, I I can hear it.
29:04 >> Yeah.
29:06 >> You'll get a giggle from us, not like a
29:08 >> Yeah. military humor is kind of in that same vein, I think. Um, so and to to put things in context a little bit without getting into specifics, we're we're talking about an eight figureure estate here. So this is this it's a it's a large estate. So as as you you're start, you you know heads wrapped around what the estate is all about, what the major issues are, uh, you know, what was going on for you at that point? what were your
29:44 concerns? um how did your outlook start to change right as we got into you know you know understanding you know what the major issues were and and the extent of the estate
30:04 >> I think um well even a little bit before that I'm going to backtrack a little bit even before uh what once we finally understood it we initially were going back and forth uh particular on the business on whether we wanted to to keep it running. Um, and so I think once we got a better understanding of the estate, we did initially decide to push through and say, "No, we think we think we'll keep going." Um, rather than like liquidate everything. Um and so and then once we got a better understanding and
30:39 and our hands around the the estate, I think that further confirmed for us that we think it would be yes
30:45 >> good to keep the business open, keep pursuing um other real estate um and the property management and whatever it might be. Um but from there and do you you said like specific uh how what we plan on change go how we continue to go forward from here or
31:12 >> yeah I was just wondering how did your thinking you know you you've talked about how you're thinking toward you know retention or sale of assets changed how did your outlook about just the whole situation change
31:26 >> or or did it maybe I should ask did it change and if so how did it change? Um well I mean said like I think at first there was some consideration to get rid of things like the company but it to me it didn't seem beneficial because it did generate profit and also I didn't want to leave Ron letty high and dry
31:48 >> and as things progressed we found out how large the estate was I think our moods definitely improved because we realized that we'll be able to provide our children a good lifestyle and to help support them with their own ventures as they grow older.
32:08 >> So, as time got on, we got more we got used to what the estate were. We had a better understanding what the estate was. We definitely had a lot more positive outlook on the final outcome that is to come. It's just it's it's still a little overwhelming at times, though. Mhm.
32:25 >> It is, especially as we're still in active probate and and trying to close things off. I mean, I think a a big part of it is is actually the question of, you know, we we never really know when it's actually going to be complete because court systems and the IRS and all that fun stuff. Um, so that I I feel like we get that question actually as of lately quite often is well when are you like is do you have the estate or when is probate going to close and our answer is we also um for a while had been wanting to um move. we were staying in
33:01 this area because of our jobs of course we're um right outside of Washington DC um but now with the inheritance of the estate um and it being of course over in California it kind of broadened our horizons to say okay well do we really need to stay here I mean we're we're unhappy um we've got a lot of medical stuff going on um and we have been wanting to get out of the area so it it did broaden the horizons we've been talking about moving which has been great for for Max's health needs, for our daughter's health needs. Um, and so it it kind of it did like broaden the
33:37 horizons and and let us open our eyes to to possibilities. Um, but with that, of course, it comes with additional uh making sure that we're still continuing to do right by the estate. Um, not making any poor financial decisions.
33:53 >> Um, so it's it's been a lot of it it's a different type of thinking, too. I think this is a conversation we had with you a a while ago. Um, but I feel I feel like our our focus has changed and particularly in the beginning and I'm sure you can attest to this too, Kevin. Like my question my question was always financially like how much does this cost? Are we going to be okay? I'm very much a penny pincher. I've grown up that way my whole life because I've had to be. And so it's it has been a different change of of mindset. And of course, we're always using to do used to doing things um just as the two of us making
34:29 financial decisions, but now we realize, oh well, if we're going to make any big financial decisions, we really have to bring in um like the experts and say, okay, this is what we're planning on doing could affect the estate. And so, it's I it's been like a massive mindset change all around. And we do constantly have to remind ourselves. And I think there were a couple times too where I sent some emails. Um I was like I don't know if I'm sending it to the right person too because still I don't fully understand everything. So this is my question. I think it goes to you but it turns out it actually should have been asked to someone else type of of question whether it was you know
35:05 financial advisor or our um CPA or whatever it may be. But uh it's it's definitely been it's been a my we've we've definitely grown a lot. It's been um a change. Um and I we would say of course for the better. Um but it's been interesting taking on a business that we Max had a little bit of knowledge of when he was a kid that he would
35:32 >> help his dad out.
35:33 >> Sort checks.
35:34 >> Sort paperwork. Yeah. But um it's it's definitely a massive undertaking and one that we know that we can't do ourselves. So, and and we've talked about this, I think, on a number of occasions. And and by the way, feel free to decline to answer this question. Um, but u the reason I'm answering I'm asking it is because I think it will be of particular interest uh to to the people watching the show and who will watch it. uh you know you the two of you have I think about as
36:09 great a marriage as I've seen among people and you're talking about you know a former military chaplain who it seemed like half of my work was you know dealing with marriages that were falling apart um and it seemed but I think the two of you each of you has a different approach a different way of dealing with you know these kinds of issues And I if if you're up for it, would you share some thoughts on the different perspective that each one of you has and and how you work together
36:48 as a married couple, you know, to differing? By the way, I I I I don't think it's bad to have different perspectives. I think that's actually good, right? Because if if two people are seeing things from the same exact way, almost inevitably they're they're missing seeing something. On the other hand, when people have different perspectives, that is, you know, a grounds for conflict and and conflict can, especially in a a very difficult situation, can be hard to resolve. So if if like I said if you're
37:24 up for it, would you you share some thoughts on that? Silence. Um no,
37:32 >> well also our our computer is uh apparently dying. So that might be there might be a little bit lag going on. Sorry about that, Kevin. We thought we charged it.
37:45 >> Um it's it's okay. But to answer your question, if you can hear us now, um
37:50 >> uh this is for anyone that's close to us knows that we are uh
37:54 >> very different
37:55 >> like exact opposites in almost everything that we do. And um it we've been married 10 years. And so I think we we have figured it out. We understand there's no changing each other. We know this is how we we are this is how we work. Um, but it it's it's funny because I am very much uh the type of person that I am very detail- oriented. I have to know I I cannot if if the question I'm probably come back to you with like five questions before I make a decision. Um because I need to know everything. I need to understand it or I'm not going to sign something. I'm I'm not going to
38:31 make a decision. Whereas Max is very I feel like uh when it comes to like the military officer type uh uh view
38:41 >> I can make a decision with zero input.
38:44 >> Yes, he he can make a decision at the drop of the hat. Um and so it it it has been and I think I've really enjoyed if anything has really helped us um as we work together and finding way that we work together because of course early days in our marriage, right? We would just be like we knew we would tell everyone we cannot work together. There's no way if we were ever in an office together it would be like nuclear bombs. It would be awful. Um, but now I actually think that we would work positively because we've actually
39:19 figured out we know and in the beginning it would come off a lot. I think for Max when when I'm asking all these questions it came off attacking but it's just like no that's just the way my mind works. I I am so in indecisive I can't make a decision unless I absolutely have all of the facts. Um and and then I can understand and feel good that I'm making a good decision. Whereas Max is very good about making that drop of a hat decision. is like these okay this is the question and you provided me these two all right this is the better the option this is what we're going to go with and that's just how it's going to be um so there are also times though where I overexlain as I am currently doing I
39:55 overexlain um and Max can get to the point very quick so there have been times where like if I'm sending an email it'll depend on the email too right I remember we were doing this or something I think we're responding to one in the emails and or something and Max it was like I want to say like two sentences
40:10 >> I wrote two sentence He wrote two sentences response I think back to you and Bill and I was like Max this does not show that you've done any of your homework that you've like I know you've been like hours on the computer research searching this but that this cross that way so like sat down for 30 minutes and I was like pulling answers out of him like okay but why did you get to this okay so but I sort of right if we need like a quick answer if I'm sometimes I'll just look to Max I'll be you answer because I'm gonna give like a two-hour response and he'll be like, "This is what
40:45 happened. This was the result."
40:47 >> Yes, there are a ton of details out and it's killing me to not say these bills, but
40:51 >> in my mind, he asked for an opinion. That was my opinion.
40:54 >> Yeah.
40:54 >> He didn't need to know. They didn't need to know
40:57 >> the reasons why I came to that conclusion. Just that's the conclusion.
41:00 >> Yeah. So it it is pretty interesting when I say we have our group phone calls and
41:06 >> I'm going to be the one with like the five questions and Max and then once we get those five questions Max and I will look at each other we'll be like okay we we agree
41:17 >> um but it is
41:18 >> I have to say there is there is a clear male female divide here because you know we're we're perfect we meaning you know the members of the team taking care of you we're we're perfectly happy to get a two sentence response. You know, as long as we're we're clear on what we want, we're off, right? And Bill especially, I would say 90% of the emails I get from Bill are maybe one line. It's like, you know, we can all sort of, you know, shortcut each other because we've known each other for a long time. But um but but you know having been having grown up
41:54 um around women and and and like having to deal with my mother, my two sisters, my older sister's very best friend, my aunt, right? It it's it's very different. There's a whole context that has to be set. Now obviously these are some not every woman is like this and not every man is like this of course but in general you know the the the explanation and the working through to the decision is at least as important as the decision itself whereas generally speaking with with the male clients I have it's like okay here's what we're going to do
42:29 go. Yeah. And and as you just kind of mentioned there, Kevin, I do there are a lot of perspectives here. Um again, when we're looking at these states where I I do have some background tax work, CPA as as well as um property management. I did work for a property management company only for three months but um I have like a little bit of knowledge here and there on that whereas Max has it background a little bit of background with with actually working at his father's uh business when he was younger.
43:06 So there are different perspectives that both and I and I have gone to hims and said look this is this is where this is what my head is thinking about this is where I'm coming from but I'm curious to see what your thoughts are to see if there's anything and there have been quite a few times where he's thought of something where I was like oh I didn't I didn't even think about that I didn't look at it from that viewpoint and I'm glad you said that because that actually does kind of change my mind now. Um, so it is it's just just the different backgrounds that we come from. It it's been very helpful and and interesting on how we work through these issues together.
43:42 All right, we're going to take another quick break and we'll be back to to
43:55 >> Probate and Trust TV, your curated source for the most useful and insightful content on estate planning and trust and probate administration, featuring standout professionals like Bill Gross, Paul Bravolet, James Cunning, and yours truly. Whether you're a lawyer, accountant, real estate professional, or working on your own succession plan, this channel helps you quickly find the clearest, most practical content YouTube has to offer. Subscribe now to Probate and Trust TV. Spend more time learning, less time
44:31 searching. Take this with you. Sorry, I'm I'm I'm just still laughing. Can't cook.
44:54 >> That may be the funniest thing you've ever said, Max. [Laughter]
45:02 >> And that is totally within the military ethos, right? You're sending a guy off to war and last thing you tell him is something sort of, you know, not not pleasant about him.
45:20 >> Oh gosh,
45:22 >> I didn't think this I didn't think this episode was gonna have so much laughter in it to be honest. I wasn't prepared. We're, you know, to uh to paraphrase, I think it was Winston Churchill, um we're we're we're definitely, you know, at the certainly at the end of the beginning, if not the beginning of of the end of of the administration of of you know, the estate that you're inheriting. And and interestingly enough, I think Bri Brianna, it was you who mentioned a few minutes ago, the most frequent question
45:58 you get is when is it going to be done? And I I get the same question, not not from the two of you, um because you know, we've we've discussed the sort of unknowability of uh you know, things like how long is the IRS going to take? Uh, in fact, I just had a conversation with the probate referee for the estate on that subject uh, last Friday and uh, uh, he he has evidently handled a number of matters in front of the IRS. And I and you know, I was giving him just a little bit of background so we could understand um, what it was we needed him
46:34 to do. And and and I said, you know, you know, we're we're going to go through at least a level one audit and and then who knows after that. He's like, "Oh yeah, you got to wait. We used to go yet." He kind You could hear him kind of going, you know, taking the breath in and the breath out, right? And the sort of indeterminate nature of that.
46:54 >> So, anyone who's been involved to any extent with probate um administration knows that it's a fool's game to predict, you know, when something's going to be done. Uh and and so um talk if you would a little bit about how you're dealing with the uncertainty because I think that's that's not an easy thing, right?
47:24 >> It it's not. But the at least for me, the way I try to deal with it is I just forget about it. because I can't sit there and think about it. If I do, I will go crazy.
47:37 >> Yeah.
47:38 >> And that would be bad for everybody. So, for me at least,
47:41 >> I just forget about it. I know that things are going great and I focus on my dayto-day, you know, dealing with the girls, dealing with the family and that's what I put my mind down or to. And I'm I think I'm doing great. I think it really helps um knowing the team that we have um and being able to trust in that our team is is working on the ground while we're here kind of hands up in the air. Nothing we can really do um at this point in time. We know that our our team is working really hard. Um we we we have built a great team um of
48:18 knowledgeable professionals and that we do trust. Um, and so I think that really helps. Um, especially because we know we can we message our team and say, "Hey, what's going on? We're kind of concerned. We're also kind of thinking about doing this. We're thinking about moving. We would like to move, but we also don't want to make bad financial decisions. If state's still in probate, we still don't know exactly know what's going on." So I think relying upon that team and and their professional expertise has been really helpful um to to really settle our minds because otherwise we would be stressed out like we don't like we know
48:55 this is coming but we don't know when and we don't know what we should do until then if we should start moving and and changing up our lifestyle the way that we would have changed our lifestyle. But um we I I think in in the the interimm it's the reliance upon the team that has kind of helped us get work our way through this.
49:18 >> So kind of a follow-up question and to the extent that you can um answer this uh how how has this whole situation affected your your your children, your girls? They're both young. Um they're both under uh what eight years of age as I recall. uh or 10 years of age anyway. Um so
49:42 >> seven and five sorry
49:47 >> um
49:47 >> they're seven and five.
49:48 >> Seven and five. Okay. Yeah. For some reason I was thinking eight and six. So I'm I'm a year advanced. Um how h if at all how has this whole situation affected them? I I would assume that that's kind of, you know, in a way topmost in your minds, right? I I know you to be extremely loving, caring, supportive parents. Not smotheringly so, but but like genuinely like like parents like parents used to be, right? In a good way.
50:22 >> Um, you know, and I I would think that this this was, you know, a big concern for you. So
50:31 >> yeah. So I think um at the end of the day family comes first our I feel like that's our motto our most important and so we did looking at this opportunity that we had we we decided to focus as of right now while our kids are still very young um to focus on them um particularly uh one of our children has a a chronic illness and um has to attend quarterly doctor's appointments and might have um a lot of hospital stays. and um a lot going on.
51:07 Um and so we wanted to focus on our children has changed and that we we have pulled them out and we're homeschooling them now that we have that opportunity to do so. Um and it it helps with the health aspects. I think it helps with with Max and I previously being working family, both of us working full-time and especially in the DC area, you're commuting a lot. Um I want to say that most days we were gone um 12 hours 10 to 20 when it comes to commuting to get where we
51:42 actually work to the traffic that's awful being at work all day and then coming home we're exhausted and we have no time for family. So, this has really honestly given us time to to actually enjoy time spent with our family and try to focus on them and what's best for them. um and also uh allow us to decide what their futures a different type of future for them I guess than we would have initially thought about um when while we were limited um with again with working constantly commuting one place to the next exhausted and then like we
52:19 might be able to spend weekends with them and that was it. Um, so it has we our our agreeance after we because we've had a couple sit down chats like okay well what what is life going to look like for us to be important to us what are our priorities um and family is always first and so I think we do now make a lot of our decisions based and prim our children um and our us and our health and our lifestyle too know knowing that that commuting lifestyle and it we were not as health healthy as we could have been.
52:56 So we are also trying to factor ourselves back into that. And being parents of young children, the focus is always on them, not on us, right? So we it's it's been an interesting lifestyle change. I would say it it definitely has been a lifestyle change.
53:10 >> We're also looking into the future too for the kids because we are coming into a new lifestyle. Want to ensure that they're going to just say, "Hey, we have money. We can do whatever you want." We're trying to avoid that. We're trying to say, you know, when they grow up, like, hey, you know, even though we have this, we still have to learn basic life skills skills. We need to, you know, get a job to like understand things. Um,
53:38 >> um,
53:39 >> ways that they contribute to the community, do, you know, give back to the world and and be good citizens. We're that that's actually speaking of Kevin, this is one of the topics that we we're planning. We have meetings scheduled with you coming up and this is one of the topics we're going to talk to you about and and ask for your expertise and your opinion on on ways that because we this is such a change for us and we know this is going to be huge for them too. We we still want to do right by them. Um, and we so we don't want to we
54:16 want them to understand that they have that safeguard, but that doesn't mean that you can blow through life um that they really need to be involved in and and uh despite what they their younger minds may think as they are growing up. So, it's it it is it's a huge lifestyle change in that we are still trying to figure out ourselves. But um I think again goes back to that we we really are relying upon our our
54:52 team and professional opinions and even friends and and reaching out and saying you know we are still trying to raise good citizens, good kids. It's
55:04 >> interestingly enough, it was it was a discussion I had with Michael um that led me to want to talk to you about some of those issues because we are moving in we are in a different phase now, right? And these these questions I think loom larger. Um I can tell you as someone who uh grew up in a very wealthy community, I I I was not wealthy. Uh my family was very middle class but Santa Barbara California and it's next door neighbor to the south monaceto very very very wealthy
55:39 community I so I grew up around a lot of kids who came from very wealthy families and in my professional life I've been around a lot of people who you know grew up in wealthy families and it's interesting because there are the kids who they got the message that like you said Briana doesn'tatter matter what your bank account is, you still have to be a good citizen. And there are the kids who think, "Oh,
56:06 >> mom and dad have a big bank account.
56:11 >> Happy times are here to stay, right?" And and really live completely dissipated lives
56:17 >> and it's it's it's a shame.
56:20 >> So, um you know, how that's handled. I I think it's difficult and there's no um there's no you know sure path
56:33 >> um but I think everybody working with you needs to be engaged on uh working on these issues in in the way that you see them to make sure that it's a unified effort. And so that that's that's been my concern for the last I don't know kind of I I guess
56:54 >> kind of since you guys were out here and we got to meet face to face and I got to meet your girls and um you know really somehow that that that brought that next aspect I don't know more to the forefront I guess is the best way to say it. So do you see differences in the way I don't know they behave and the way they look at life they are so young um so I you know I I could imagine a lot of this is just sort of above their heads but on the other hand I don't maybe not they're they're pretty sharp
57:31 at least that's my assessment
57:35 >> I think they're still the same old girls we had
57:37 >> yeah and I think we're working hard to raise them to be the same old girls as they as they were before. Um I don't think they're the only difference that they're and actually when I was out walking our dogs this morning and I was with the girls, we were doing a training walk for our puppy this morning. Oh, cuz I said we have a meeting today. Um just so you guys know um and then we'll we'll do a nice painting activity afterwards. Um so but we were like please be please let mom and dad have this painting. Um, and her response to me though was, "Oh, you're always doing meetings." And I was like, "But but we're not though." Like when
58:13 not compared to when we were gone for 12 hours a day, this is like this is like nothing. So, if anything, the only thing she's really noticed is that we're going from homeschooling, being with them the whole day. Um, and then being like, "Okay, actually, we do have a meeting. It's very important. You you now you've met who we're meeting with. You you understand this." So, I don't think they've really they other than that noticing the the kind of the difference in our our working lifestyle, um they they haven't noticed much. And I think we've kind of I think we're doing that on purpose. I This is actually I'm looking at Max because this isn't something we haven't really discussed
58:49 honestly. Um we we haven't told them, hey, we're coming into this big estate. Hey, this financially things should be easier um from now on. um um but it it's I think they're too young to really understand. Um
59:10 >> my by the way, my my advice is when you tell them tell them, "Hey, we're coming into this big estate and you're gonna have to go to work for the company it owns right now." No, I'm just kidding.
59:21 >> Yeah.
59:29 >> Yeah. Yeah. just just put him to work now, you know.
59:36 >> Well,
59:36 >> might as well. I mean, we're we're doing things when it comes to like
59:40 >> work around the house and stuff like that. Um we have we do have like a shore chart and we're like this is, you know, your work. This is our work, but your work has to get done or helping us with um gardening outside and there or like cleaning around the house and stuff. We we have set up we're we're starting to um at least for their appropriate age things that they can work on and they have like a checklist of things that they do every day. So I don't know maybe eventually we we'll start adding in some actual work
60:12 >> sorting checks.
60:14 >> We'll see.
60:19 >> Veronica and Letty will be happy to have them. So
60:24 >> yes.
60:25 >> Yeah. You can you can ship them out here for the summer. It'll be summer camp at Magnum Properties
60:31 >> at Magnum.
60:34 >> Something they have something to look forward to now.
60:37 >> Yeah.
60:38 >> Well, this this I don't know. I don't know about from you.
60:41 >> Oh, well, they'll hear California and they'll go, "Oh, Disneyland,
60:45 >> right?" Yeah. Yeah. Well, we can do it. We can do, you know, we'll do a day at Disneyland, you know, and then back to the salt lines, you know. I we'll do we'll do one at Universal as well. One day at Universal, one day at Disneyland, work the rest of the time.
61:04 >> There you go.
61:05 >> Sounds good.
61:06 >> Whatever. Whatever the two of you want, we'll work it out.
61:10 >> Well, we are uh we are we ended up talking for an hour, which most of the shows don't go for an hour. So, uh and I think we could go for another two or three hours. um if nothing else just joking with each other. Um but I'm not sure people would find that part as interesting. So
61:28 >> So I I really I really want to thank um I really want to thank both of you for for coming on the show and and sharing what is after all you know a somewhat personal matter in your life. I I really I've never done a show like this. um bringing the the heirs or the beneficiaries perspective to this whole process and I think that it it's hard those of us who administrate estates we have in our head what we need to do
62:03 right it's all in here we know we're the professionals but the reality is that we work to serve you people like you and to better understand your experience really means means that we can do a better job for for our clients and and and and for working with our our fellow team members. So, I I really think there's tremendous value in in what you did and I I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time.
62:35 >> Thanks so much for having us, Kevin. We really appreciate it.
62:38 >> So, I'm going to have you hang tight. We're gonna we'll go off live in just a moment. I'm just going to do a quick wrap up here. So, um, thank you so much for joining us today and we've got some live viewers who tuned in. It's always always a treat. I hope you were laughing as much as we were. So, and if not, if not, leave a comment. Why? Why weren't you laughing at us or with us anyway? Real quickly, tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. is my show, Business Lessons from the Military. Uh, that specific time, of course. And then Wednesday at 10 a.m. Pacific time is my show, Business
63:13 Lessons from the Military. So, we have a couple more times to be together this week. And then a week from today, I'll be back for the next episode of uh Trust in Estates Weekly. So, uh again, thank you so much for joining us. Max, Briana, thank you very very much for being my guest today. And that just leads me to sign off as I always do, reminding you that Marie, darling, you are my belt. You know you are. Okay. Courage at all times, my