0:04 We often think of legacy as what people receive after we're gone, but what if some of the most meaningful uses of wealth happen while we're still here to see the results? Money can do more than create an inheritance. It can create opportunities, experiences, values, and relationships during our lives.
0:28 >> Who are you?
0:31 >> [music]
0:31 >> And where are you going? What do you want?
0:43 >> Hello and welcome to People Making Money. I'm your host Kevin Bemmel and I'm here every Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about job hunting and being an employee, running and starting starting and running a business, and building wealth. The whole financial side of our lives and I've been doing those three topics in repertory. This is actually going to be October's going to be the last month that I that I do that. The show is going to be switching formats come November 1st. I'll talk more about that
1:18 later in the month. But for now, the topic for today is on wealth building or specifically what to do when one has built wealth. And so the timing of of legacy, give now or leave later, is is is on the on the stage, we'll say. So I have five thoughts on this subject. For those of you who watch the show, you know that my primary business is I have a multi-family office practice
1:54 and I act as a trustee and independent probate administrator. So, I see this issue of legacy playing out on a regular basis in my professional life. And uh I I I would say that often times it's kind of sad. Um people will leave behind money, sometimes substantial money, uh but they don't leave behind, I think, the kind of lasting memories um and and closeness with their relatives that they
2:30 might have done if perhaps they had been less focused on you know, holding on to the money and and and giving a, you know, a big chunk um when they die as opposed to using some of it while they were alive. And so, I'm going to that that's really going to be the focus, although you'll see it's uh on on number five, I'm going to kind of flip that on its head a little bit. So, I think there are there are several misconceptions that we have um about legacy and legacy planning and wealth
3:05 transfer. The first one is is that legacy planning is primarily about deciding who gets my assets when I die. Right? So, you've got maybe uh you know, a retirement account, you have your house, maybe you've got some other properties, maybe you have a uh nice portfolio of stocks and bonds, whatever it is. Right? So, you know, we think of estate planning as what happens with my estate, my my assets. Um I'm I I I'm encouraging you to broaden out your thinking and think about legacy
3:40 planning, which is not the same thing. So, some questions to ask are, what should what why should legacy be postponed until death? Right? Legacy doesn't it doesn't have to wait. Building a legacy is a lifelong pursuit. So, what could your money accomplish while you're still alive? Okay? And is is leaving someone money the same thing as having a positive impact uh on the person's life? So, I know my mother,
4:16 this is going back a few years ago now before my nephew was married, uh she took him on a trip to Egypt. Uh just the two of them. And I I know from talking to both of them it was a wonderful trip. Uh a a a very deeply bonding experience. And I think it's paid a lot of dividends in terms of the quality of their relationship as the years have gone by. And that's not the only time she uh traveled with with my nephew. Um that's kind of the most elaborate one. Um and it's it's you know, it is a memory that
4:54 both of them will carry uh for the rest of their lives. And I I I think it it it's irreplaceable. And you know, I I applaud my mother for having done that. My mom has, you know, candidly has always been kind of a little uh tied up with the idea that she has to leave my sisters and me, you know, money. And I I tell her, you know, Mom, we're all grown-up people here. So, you know, you you you need to use your money uh to uh enhance your life in a in a way you think is uh you know, fits fits the
5:30 fits your values and purposes. So,
5:34 >> [snorts]
5:34 >> uh it it's as I mentioned a moment ago, estate planning determines what happens to wealth at death. But, legacy planning can begin much earlier. So, uh money can be used during your lifetime to educate a child or a grandchild. It can help someone start a business. Doesn't even have to be a relative necessarily. Maybe you have a very close friend or the child of a close friend and they want to start a business and and and you want to you know you you may invest in in that startup. You may want to assist
6:11 someone with buying a home which it's it's very difficult. Homes are expensive these days relative to salaries. The multiple of median income to median home price is is is high by historic standards. Right? You may want to create a memorable family experience. I mentioned the one of my mom with my nephew. Many many years before that, my mom asked my sisters and I to to join her on a trip to the Twin Cities, Minneapolis,
6:46 St. Paul. My mother grew up in St. Paul and so you know we all flew in at different times. Um and you know my mom took us to see the house where she grew up and the drugstore where she used to go get an ice cream and buy stamps. She was a stamp collector. It was a great trip and and again you know the memories of that trip walking along the streets in St. Paul that were covered with leaves because it was we took the trip kind of late in the fall so that the trees had shed their leaves. I'll always remember
7:22 that and and and treasure that memory. And also the hotel room that I got which my my mom didn't she didn't pay for my hotel room. I I I paid for myself but it was a sort of elaborate hotel room that where we could all gather and and and be together. It was like a two-story room. It was pretty fantastic with this spiral staircase going up.
7:43 >> [snorts]
7:43 >> Right? So, um those kind of memorable family experiences, and I took trips to Minneapolis with my father as well. My father lived and his and his parents lived in Minneapolis for a while. Um you might also want to support uh organizations and causes. And you may want to mentor younger people in how to handle money well, especially if you've done well financially, so you have knowledge that's very valuable to them. And helping them gain that knowledge can be a tremendous transfer of legacy that is
8:21 in some ways more valuable than the money itself. Right? So, giving while living also allows you to see what happens. Right? We have a tendency to think, "Well, if I give them money, it's all going to work out great." But maybe not. If they don't have the skill to handle the money, uh it it having a lot of money can be as negative as we assume it will be positive.
8:45 >> [snorts]
8:46 >> So, you you know, you can you can observe how people actually handle the money, and then you can see if it accomplishes the purpose uh that you have in mind, and make adjustments accordingly based on what happens. So, the question changes from what will I leave to what can I accomplish with what I have. And I think we all would like to leave a positive legacy, and so starting that earlier while we're still alive and can observe the the results of of our
9:26 legacy development, I'll call it, um will help us better achieve that goal. So, take a a financially successful couple in their late 60s. Let Let's say they've accumulated, you know, $5 million and they've um always assumed that eventually they would pass it along to uh their two children and their grandchildren. So, you know, hopefully, um you know, in the example I'm using, they have an estate plan. It's all been put together. It has all the parts, a trust, a uh pour-over will, uh you know, durable power of attorney, etc., etc., right?
10:02 Okay, but then they begin to asking different questions. So, and and the primary one among them is why are we waiting? Right? So, maybe they have a granddaughter who's who wants to go to college. Maybe she, you know, wants to be a doctor or a lawyer. College is very expensive these days. So, helping her pay for college so she can avoid having uh huge debts after she gets out of college could be a real boost to her. And so, maybe that's a better way to handle things than than, you know,
10:37 waiting for them to die to pass on the money. Maybe their son is thinking about starting a business now uh and and he could use uh you know, help with that. Maybe the family has time to travel together now, whereas once the grandchildren have families, so now their children have families, young families, uh and then the child their grandchildren have family, much harder to travel. Maybe when the children are or when the grandchildren are teenagers, um it's easier to travel. You can you take them out of school for a week or two. That's no big deal as opposed to, you know, if they have babies or whatever, it's much more difficult,
11:13 right? So, their wealth may ultimate be ultimately be inherited, um but some of its greatest usefulness may exist today. So, I think the the the sort of money lesson is is legacy isn't necessarily the money people receive from you. It can also be your money enables them to do uh with their lives, right? And and that's a bigger impact than just the money itself. Okay? All right. Uh Um misconception number two. Um
11:48 the more money I leave my family, the better I have provided for them. Right? And that that seems to sort of intuitively make sense, but some questions, right? At what point does additional inheritance really provide, you know, diminishing benefits, right? If they're going to get, you know, $600,000 instead of only $500,000, I mean, is that $100,000 difference really going to make a substantial uh difference in their lives? Maybe not, right? So, could money received earlier
12:24 actually have greater value? And I gave a couple of examples like that. Maybe help educate them, start a business, that kind of thing. Maybe that will have more long-term value than getting the extra, you know, $100,000 uh you know, uh 10 or 15 or 20 years later, right? And what does the What is the recipient actually need from you? And I think that's really the crux of the matter is how can you best help them, right? And that that isn't necessarily when you're
13:00 gone, right? So, the timing of wealth can matter as much as the amount uh in terms of having a positive impact. So, someone inheriting, you know, a half a million dollars at 65 when they they may already own a home, they have an established career, in fact, they may be approaching retirement, may not be nearly as meaningful as receiving $100,000 when they're in their twenties and maybe they they really want to start a business and giving them that hundred thousand dollars then or maybe investing
13:36 it in the business and then you know as part of your estate plan sort of you know transferring your share of the business to them or something like that. That hundred thousand dollars has the opportunity to grow and really help them build a life beyond just the initial amount of the money, right? So a smaller amount over decades a smaller amount decades earlier it might have helped the person. So I talked about education, perhaps buying a first home, avoiding debt, especially debt for education, starting a business,
14:12 a company and or maybe just taking a career opportunity, right? So you know I I I've I've talked to a number of people lately. Italy seems to be kind of the place where people want to go. I talked to someone not too long ago about they're going to Italy to take this sort of cooking program. They've always wanted to do it. And how will that enrich their lives, right? Now, I don't think they're looking about they're not I don't think they're looking at becoming you know a chef professionally. However, the you know the Mediterranean diet is is such a healthy way to eat and it can
14:49 enhance our longevity the the just the level of health of our lives. So what a wonderful way to help somebody maybe to send them or to you know to pay for them to go on that kind of experience that will have such a positive impact on their life going forward and for you know decades longer than if they you know had to wait until you know you passed away in order to you know give them the money. So um this doesn't mean that you should give money indiscriminately and I so I want
15:26 to I want to make that clear. I'm not suggesting you should just start, you know, handing out checks. Not at all. The the the crux of it is is when would giving them capital have the greatest usefulness and sometimes, maybe often, that will be much earlier in their lives when you're still alive because of in essence the compounding effect on their lives. We talk about the compounding effect of money, which is you know, one of the great wealth building tools, but there's also the
16:02 compounding effect of experiences or accomplishments that we're able to build in our lives if we start out early and let them develop over time, right? So, the same dollar can have very different effects depending on when and why it's received, right? So, if a couple in their 60s, right, when they when they start thinking about this issue, so they may decide, you know what, the son doesn't necessarily need a large inheritance, especially if he had some
16:39 capital now to start a business and then that business grows. So, the business could very well achieve a value that would be larger than the total amount they could uh that that that the son could inherit when his when his parents die, right? And so, again, that's both the compounding effect of experiences and legacies, but in this case it's also the compounding effect of money. So, the parents face a more interesting question and that is is $100,000
17:14 more useful for him today than potentially, you know, several hundred thousand dollars decades from now. Okay? And and that'll be The answer to that question will, of course, be dependent on the specifics of the situation. Right? So, when thinking about legacy, right, consider not only how much, but when the money can make the greatest difference, the greatest impact. Okay? So, that that's Misconception number two. Misconception number three. If I give my family enough
17:50 money, I've created financial security for them. This may be
17:56 >> [laughter]
17:58 >> the biggest misconception I'm going to talk about today. So, what happens when money arrives without financial judgment, right? Should financial knowledge accompany financial assistance, right? And can giving become an opportunity for teaching? So, I think all of those questions are pointing to a similar answer, which is merely giving somebody money doesn't necessarily create financial security if they don't
18:34 know how to handle money properly, right? And they can burn through it. You see this in the statistics about people who win the lottery. I think it's something like 70 or 80% of them the money is gone within 5 years or some, you know, crazy short time, right? Because oftentimes the people who win the lottery have never dealt with wealth before, and so sometimes they buy foolish things, other times they give a lot of money away not realizing what what will happen as a
19:10 result. The money sometimes they're they're bilked out of the money because they fall prey to scammers and and swindlers, right? So, the the size of the amount of money that someone receives will not ipso facto lead to financial security. So, um, capital can solve immediate financial problems, but that doesn't automatically create a financial capability. So, a lasting financial legacy can include understanding saving
19:45 and investing. I know when I was was a boy, when I say a boy, a a little boy, uh, my mother and my mom and dad started a savings account for me at the time. You had this little book, and they were called passbook accounts because the book, uh, recorded how much money. And and and periodically they would take me to the bank with them, and the and the interest would be recorded, and of course, I didn't really know what it meant, but I had a sense like this was a good thing, saving money. And then when, um, I had my bar mitzvah, uh, typical for for especially for that time period, people gave me, uh, checks,
20:22 and my dad took me after my, uh, bar mitzvah, took me to a savings and loan. I don't remember the name of it, but it had something to do with a lantern cuz they gave me this lantern bank. It was a ceramic lantern bank. I loved that thing, and I opened a savings account, and and, you know, and added money to it, uh, periodically, uh, over the succeeding years, right? So, uh, you know, my parents started early teaching me about saving and investing. So, uh, you know, we also need to learn how debt works, right? There are lots of financial gurus out there who say you should never incur
20:58 debt. Uh, if you've watched other episodes of the show, you know that that is not my philosophy. There are good reasons to incur debt. For example, buying a house. Okay, that can be a good reason to incur debt. Now, there are bad reasons to incur debt like eating out at expensive restaurants every day or every evening when you can't really afford to do that, right? So, learning how debt works and when it's a good thing to use or how to use it as a tool productively, that's an important financial skill. Understanding taxes and insurance.
21:34 Income taxes, of course, are are inevitable at the federal level. Some states don't have an income tax, but other states like California do. We have the highest income tax rate of any state now. And insurance, you know, what is insurance for? Why do we need it? You know, how how how is it best set up, right? And then learning how to evaluate investments. So, it's one thing to understand saving and investing, but then the next step from that is learning how to evaluate investments. And then if your family has
22:09 a business, then you know, hopefully you would want other members of your family to understand the business. Maybe there's even an expectation that younger people will join in the business after they get done with their schooling, right? Same with assets. Maybe the family doesn't have a business per se, but maybe it owns a lot of real estate. So, then they need to learn about handling that, right? So, and then also knowing how to work with advisors, attorneys, accountants, wealth advisors, fiduciaries, right? All of those are skills that enable
22:44 someone to handle money better. And so, parents and grandparents can involve younger generations gradually rather than just you know, when they die, dumping this pile of money on them and expecting them how to deal with substantial wealth. How could they if they have no experience if they've had no opportunity to gain the knowledge, right? So, a gift can become both a both financial assistance, but also financial education, right? So, you know, maybe
23:19 when your children or grandchildren are teenagers, you give them a small gift, $5,000, $10,000, and you let them, you know, use it to make some investments in the stock market and and see how that plays out and see see what they learn from making mistakes, right? To make you know, a a $500 mistake as a teenager could potentially save your child thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars later as they're an adult because they had an opportunity to do things, to make some mistakes, to see uh why
23:55 things didn't work out properly and so they can make better judgment calls in the future, right? So, instead of simply writing uh going back to our our couple in their 60s. So, instead of ask just writing their son a check for $100,000 for the business he wants to start, the couple could ask him to explain his plan, right? So, what will the money purchase? How will the additional capital be used? What happens if revenue is lower than expected, right? Is the money a gift, a loan, an investment? How is it going to be set up, right? And the idea is this is not
24:30 designed to control him. It's really about helping him learn, right? And of course, as as as his parents or his grandparents, you'll you're going to be much more open to helping him than an outsider would be, right? But at the same time, you can exercise um your your parental or grandparental care by helping him learn and therefore become more successful. So, it you know, the money can help him gain greater financial judgment. At the same time, it also creates an opportunity for him
25:06 financially. So, the you know, an inher- an inheritance, we tend to think of it as as as transferring assets, but a true inheritance, a living legacy, can also trans- uh transfer knowledge, it can transfer experience, and it can transfer decision-making ability. Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll come back for more. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress.
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26:16 Okay. So, misconception number four. Uh s- spending money um reduces what I'll eventually leave behind. Right? So, um is preserving the maximum possible estate always the objective? Right? That's I think that's an important question to ask ourselves. So, what experiences are possible during a limited lifetime, right? None of us are going to live forever. And so,
26:52 what what can we what can we leave behind besides money? And then, could spending money today create something more enduring than preserving just the dollar amount of our estate? Right? So, I alluded to this a little bit earlier, which is wealth has both a financial value and a time value. That's why I talked about legacy, right? So, certain experiences have expiration dates, right? A family trip with grandchildren may be possible when they're 12 or 13 or
27:28 even when they're in their later teens, but it's much harder when they're 32 and they have careers and families of their own. That's the example I gave of my my mom and and my nephew, right? So, also, you know, you you may be physically capable of traveling now, but 15 years from now it may be too difficult, right? My mom just she's not able to take a trip to Egypt anymore, right? And nothing against her, it's just it's it's more than she wants to take on at this point in her life. So, good for her that
28:03 she did it when she was younger and has that great experience with her nephew. So, you know, again, I've talked about these money can facilitate family travel, but it can also create reunions like the trip my mom took with you know, with my sisters and me to St. Paul. It can create shared traditions, educational experiences, celebrations, and just time together. So, I have a colleague. I'll I'll give her a quick plug here, Shalana Nelson. She has a
28:39 a franchise of Grayson's company. They help people get rid of the personal property left behind when somebody dies. And Shalana was telling she has a huge family and she's telling me about some of the experiences with her family. Right, this is someone I think who understands this idea of legacy. You know, they have family reunions, they take family trips. Like, what a wonderful thing to do to to create these opportunities for the family to bond more closely. So, I I I I
29:14 really I I don't want to say I'm envious. Envy's not a good thing. But, I think it's it's so wonderful to have this, you know, great big family and to have all those experiences together. All of those things that I just mentioned, right? So, the financial return on these things is probably nonexistent in the conventional sense. But, the life return is substantial. And in terms of the quality of the of the lives of your family members, it's just
29:49 exponentially greater for experiences. I I think this is one thing that younger people today recognize that perhaps my generation was not was not so cognizant about. And that is that experiences, especially earlier in life, can greatly enrich our our lives in a way that things can't, right? So, I I think that's, you know, very smart of them to recognize that and to work to
30:26 gain those experiences at at an earlier age than, you know, than people I did. I know my my younger sister lived in France as when she was in her 20s. Um, had already started a business and I couldn't do things like that and, you know, in retrospect, I think my life would have been better off if I had done some more things like that when I was younger. Um, and uh, but you know, look, don't I don't have regrets per se, but I think uh, having experiences um, is is they're very very enriching. They
31:03 make our lives, the rest of our lives much better as we think back about those experiences. So, um, you know, our our our, you know, 60-year-old couple, right? They may want to take their children and grandchildren abroad or maybe on a cruise or something, right? The trip could cost, I don't know, 30, 50,000 dollars, right? So, their first reaction may be, well, if we spend that 30,000 dollars now, that's 30,000 dollars less to the family or maybe even more than 30,000 dollars less cuz that that, you know, that money would compound over time, right? But then they
31:38 realize there's kind of a strange logic to that, which is that they're preserving money so their children and grandchildren can eventually inherit it instead of using some of that money to create an experience with their children and grandchildren today that will substantially improve the quality of their lives. So, they take the trip and and the reality is years later, no one's missing the 30,000 dollars they spent on that trip. On the other hand, everyone remembers it, hopefully remembers it
32:13 fondly, the things they saw, you know, even if there were bad things about it, those probably have turned into family jokes by then, right? And and you know, at Thanksgiving or whatever, Christmas, Hanukkah, whatever, you know, they recount their their adventures and they laugh about them together, right? What a what a great way for our families to be together. So, not every found financial decision needs to be designed to maximize net worth, right? Sometimes money's purpose
32:48 is to is is to create an opportunity that will eventually that the time will um eventually enhance and burnish, right? And so, um again, I it's I think it's important to stress this one. Spending money reduces what all eventually leave behind. I mean, maybe on a strict dollars and cents basis that's true, but, you know, how much more how much richer can our families be if we spend some money now while we're still alive. Okay, now I said I was going to flip this on our
33:23 head on its head at at the last point here, and I am. So, the the fifth and and final misconception is if giving during [clears throat] life is good, I should start transferring as much as possible now, right? So, the that really we need to ask ourselves some questions to balance things out in in the sense that how much can you safely give now, right? What future expenses might you still face? And and how do you avoid becoming financially dependent on on the people whom you're trying to help, right? So,
34:00 we you know, we don't want to go in the other direction where we've used so much of our money now that now we, you know, we can't live um and our life becomes, you know, difficult or pinched or worse we become reliant on our children or grandchildren because we haven't been good stewards of the wealth we accumulated, right? So, living generously um doesn't mean ignoring longevity, inflation, health care, taxes, you know, housing costs or other unexpected expenses. So, before you
34:35 consider making significant gifts, think about um what is a sustainable retirement income if you're retired? Or maybe you're still, you know, kind of working, you don't ever plan to wholly retire, but what amount of inc- what amount of income do you need um to generate from your wealth so that you can sustain your life? And then what kind of emergency reserves do you need? What kind of potential what potential long care needs may you have, right? What about housing costs? Again,
35:10 inflation, taxes, and and you know, there are rules for giving gifts. So, how much can you give maybe without triggering some kind of tax consequence, right? So, maybe if you want to give a large large sum of money to one of your children while you're still alive, maybe that needs to be um spread out over several years in order to reduce or potentially even eliminate the tax consequences, right? So, we also need to take into account we're all most of us are living much longer now than we used to. I remember when I
35:45 was a teenager, um relatives who were my age seemed so old. And I don't I don't feel that old. I mean, I don't feel as young as I used to, but uh you know, being in our 60s today, I think is very different than being in our 60s, you know, back in the late 1960s and 1970s, right? So, um a lot of people live into their 80s and 90s um these days. Um and I there's a billboard, I don't know if it's still there, on one of the freeways south of where I live that says something like
36:20 30% of the people born today are going to live into their hundreds, right? That's astonishing um if it comes to pass, right? So, we we do need to plan for that, right? So, um some assets also some assets may be more advantageous to transfer during our life than others. So, so tax planning and estate planning, it does matter. We do want to get that advice, right? To understand what is the impact on our our wealth, our net worth by making gifts now, but merely because we need to get
36:55 advice and make sure we do it right shouldn't prevent us from considering it and potentially doing it, right? So, um the objective is not necessarily to die with the smallest possible estate, um although, you know, I told you my philosophy, I I think with my mother, which is if you spend your last dollar moments before you take your last breath, you've done it just right. I joke with her about that. Um but uh you know, I'm not saying that that's necessarily the goal. That's kind of more kind of a joke, but um but also it's not necessarily to die
37:30 with the largest uh you know, estate, right? First of all, there's always going to be someone with a larger estate. And second of all, who cares, right? It's It's our It's your life. It's my life. It's our lives. We need to do what's right for ourselves and our families, our loved ones. So, the objective is to use wealth deliberately across an entire lifetime. And that's that's really at the heart of legacy and legacy planning, right? So, um our couple probably shouldn't start, you know, distributing millions of
38:05 dollars of their $5 million estate, but they should determine what they need to maintain their uh financial independence and security, and then they can start to identify what can they comfortably use to help their families to to create experience, to provide education, philanthropy opportunities during their lifetime, right? So, an estate plan is a central aspect of a legacy plan. It's just not the whole thing, okay? So, the the the sort of final lesson here, I
38:41 think, is a living legacy should enhance other people's lives without jeopardizing your own financial independence, right? That's That is the crux of the matter. And for each one of us, that's going to be a a different calculation. So, most financial planning asks, "Will I have enough money?" right? But an estate planning essentially asks, "Where will the money go when I'm gone?" right? And And those are Those are fine questions to ask, but there's another question
39:16 worth asking, and that is "What do I want my money to accomplish?" And And especially to accomplish while I'm still here. So, wealth isn't merely something to accumulate, and protect, and eventually transfer. Wealth is a tool. Money is a tool. And properly used, it can help educate people, create opportunities, strengthen relationships, support causes, and purchase experiences while you can still participate in them, right? So, your legacy doesn't have to
39:53 begin after your death. In fact, it can begin right now. So, I'm curious to know what you think about this. If you look right below where you're watching, you'll see links to social media. Uh post a comment in social media. What is What does having a legacy mean to you? I'd really love to hear your thoughts, and I'm happy to comment on them. Okay, so, schedule of shows, Mondays, these are all Pacific time, Mondays at 10:00 a.m. uh Trusts and Estates Weekly, Tuesdays at 10:00 a.m. Business Lessons
40:28 from the Military, Wednesdays, like today, at 10:00 a.m. People Making Money, and every other Thursday at 5:00 p.m. please join me at Jigger's Place for a cocktail and a schmooze, and we'll talk about all those things that make life worth living, the things on which we build a legacy, like relationships and ideas and books and movies and all kinds of things. So, I thank you very much for joining me today, wishing you a wonderful rest of the day, and signing off as I always do, Marie Darling, you are my bell. Courage to all