0:01 And where [music] are you going? What do you want?
0:16 >> [laughter]
0:16 >> That was a little weird. Hello and welcome to people making money. I'm your host Kevin Bemel and I'm here every Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about job hunting and being an employee, starting and running a business and building wealth. So, the whole financial side of our lives. And today, I'm going to be on the first of those topics. So, this year I've been doing them in repertoire as as the theater folks say, and talking about an aspect of of being an employee, and that is um career plateaus.
0:52 So, uh you know, if if you're a frequent watcher of of the my shows, so you know, pretty much everything I talk about is [snorts] is is based around the idea that we should be growing as people, as human beings, and that includes professionally. So, the idea of hitting a career plateau uh uh uh obviously would be anathema to uh to to, you know, a a a devotee of the Way to Wow shows. Uh but I think just in general,
1:28 uh we should always be looking for growth opportunities in our lives, whether it's in our relationships and um our physical activity, in our our hobbies, and our what we do for play. All of those, I think, uh you know, not that we have to be, you know, powering forward and being, you know, in the 90th percentile of of all of our endeavors, but to to keep our our our minds and our bodies active and and trying new things is is a very valuable uh quality to
2:04 develop. Keeps us young or keeps us vital, I should say. I don't know about it keeping us young, but it keeps us vital. And I I I think there's I'm certainly no medical expert, but it seems like there's an increasing amount of uh evidence that uh you know, to to be engaged in um worthwhile activities, be they professional or avocational or or, you know, relationships staves off things like dementia and such. So, nowhere is this more important than in
2:40 our professional lives. And although I'm going to be talking about career plateaus in the context of being an employee, I think that people in business oftentimes hit uh professional plateaus as well, and the businesses start to stagnate, and there therein begins the slow decline. Um I mean, we've we've seen it, you know, countless times over history. Um businesses that end up becoming irrelevant. One of one of the most notable in the last half century being
3:17 Kodak, of course, which early on had developed the technology for digital photography, but uh essentially did not exploit it because they thought it would uh damage, if not destroy, their core uh film business. And then, of course, in the event uh that happened anyway, right? So, uh we we need to guard against complacency. We need to guard against career plateaus. So, the the I think the the central issue here is comfort. I think as human beings
3:54 we we seek comfort and that's fine sometimes,
3:59 >> [laughter]
3:59 >> you know, at the end of the day after, you know, especially if it's been a particularly difficult or challenging day. Look, I want the comfort of uh a warm shower and a whiskey and soda, right? I But I And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Uh but but when comfort becomes that which we seek out all the time it it becomes problematic. And for many professionals, so um they mistake stability for security. And in today's job market, that that is just not the case. So
4:37 with with the advent of LLMs and the impact that AI more broadly is having on on on on um the economy and and and on businesses what looks like stability or what may feel like stability is is not any in any way related to security. Uh quite the opposite. So um and and and it's not just new technology like AI. So inflation and and market shifts, they can erode your earning power, especially when salaries
5:14 stay flat. So you know, we're we're we're seeing now recently, unfortunately, uh incomes are not keeping pace with inflation. They They had been doing so for the last kind of year and a half or so. And now with inflation heating up, that's not the case. And so you know, if if if if in the face of higher inflation, um you know, you're not looking to uh increase your skills to increase to build your network, to look for a better
5:49 opportunity than the one you currently have that might afford you the ability to increase your compensation. So, I think you know, that that that stability, again, it's not security. It's actually the opposite because you'll be you'll be losing ground financially. So, uh some industries just evolve faster than many employees realize. So, I think this is something that's going on in the legal profession right now. The legal profession
6:25 probably the only really big change in the legal profession, well, I shouldn't say the only one, but but one of the the big change in the legal profession over my lifetime certainly was lawyers being allowed to advertise. And and and that has had many impacts on the legal profession, many of which I think a lot of lawyers think has been negative. So, so that's had a big impact. Personal computers have also had a big impact. It used to be almost every lawyer had a legal secretary who did all the typing and correspondence, etc. Nowadays, lawyers generally speaking, I
7:01 think, draft their own documents. But there's another big change coming with AIs where AIs are very effective document drafters. I I know that from personal experience. So, I think the legal profession is is going to go through a huge evolution here over the next uh from now till I don't know, 5, 10 years from now as businesses figure out how how especially large language models are going to be integrated into their operational models.
7:36 And and yet at the same time, the law business is still is rather staid. And so, I think there is somewhat of a culture clash fate culture clash facing the law business going forward. Um as well, another aspect of of of being comfortable is staying in the same position or same in the same same role for a long period of time. So, it it it seems stable, but it it probably is reducing your future marketability because roles need to
8:12 evolve and adapt to what's going on within your industry. And if you've been in your role for a long time, it's possible that that that role is becoming uh if not outright obsolete, um it's become it's being deemphasized is in importance. I I I would say just in general, if if what you're doing does not require you to grow and develop, it's it's probably something that's going to be uh if not completely outmoded, substantially
8:49 lessened in importance uh over the next few years, right? That that's what I'm going to be talking about, you know, signs that you may have hit a career plateau in a minute, but but that's probably a good sign, right? So, uh these these risks I think are are often times somewhat invisible uh because you know, we're we're in a role, we're comfortable, we may we may like or even love what we're doing, and yet uh you know, the market is passing us by, the industry our industry is developing in a way that's going to make us
9:25 um less important or obsolete, and we don't realize it until a lot of the damage has been done. So, just as an example, I was listening to a podcast yesterday that was talking about how uh YouTube has been integrated into the classroom. And the one of the people who was interviewed on the podcast was a a science teacher. And and you can imagine YouTube can be a very useful tool for teaching science because video is a very very effective in in you know the visual nature of video is very effective in making
10:03 complex concepts clearer, right? And and I I I I you know the the teacher talked about his struggle in in how to adapt this technology to the classroom. And I'm I'm not going to get into the whole podcast, but I think that you know here's an example of you know I I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of teachers there are in the country, but but obviously a huge number. Every one of them should be dealing with these kinds of issues and
10:38 and and working to figure them out. How are we going to be using video in the classroom? How are we going to be using large language models and other types of AI in the classroom? Um what are we going to be doing about the growing body of evidence that seems to indicate that for example taking tests online is not as good as taking tests at um um uh
11:06 >> [laughter]
11:07 >> an- an- analogically I guess would be the right term. They're taking them on you know paper. So you know there there's been a number of of um innovations in teaching and in the classroom and now as as we've we've got some history of of their impact, there's there's probably a new evolutionary direction that that it needs to be taken by teachers. For teachers and school administrators who are not engaged in this, they they are of course number one short-changing the students, but number two,
11:42 they they are perhaps allowing comfort to become a a big financial risk in their careers because those teachers and and and administrators who are engaged in figuring this out are going to become much more um uh dominant in in the profession, I suspect, and and those who aren't are going to be left behind. So, um what are some of the costs then of of career stagnation, of of hitting a plateau? Well, first of all,
12:18 uh you know, you miss out on promotion mi- I I should say missed promotion opportunities compound over time. So, uh when I was chaplain of the air wing up at Point Mugu, um I think it was the first year I was there. So, the Navy announced that um no uh there would be no promotion boards for lieutenants to be promoted to lieutenant commander. Right. So, an entire group lost out on
12:53 that promotion. Now, uh needless to say, all of the lieutenants who were who would have been eligible to be considered for promotion were quite angry at this. Uh one of the things that I pointed out to the senior leadership of with whom I spoke about the issue is this was a permanent loss of earnings, career-long earnings, of probably hundreds of thousands of dollars for each for for any sailor who otherwise might have been promoted. And what was the Navy going to do about that? Because
13:30 the the uh you know, the Navy needs retention, especially and needs to retain qualified pilots. And this was essentially saying to qualified pilots, "Eh, nah, you know, really, yeah, whatever. You're expendable." Right? Not not a good way to do it. Now, um fortunately, and there was consideration, I think, that they were going to do this for more than 1 year. Fortunately, they did not, but the the compounding over time of those missed promotions, I think would have would I I and I think
14:05 hopefully this is what the this is why the Navy didn't do it. They figured out that the long-term damage to naval aviation as a result of missed promotions it would have been just far greater than whatever uh work had to be done to figure out how to at least promote some people and and and and demonstrate that there was still a career path forward. But for us as individuals, for us to miss a couple of promotions over a you know, 1 to 5-year period, that
14:41 significantly holds back the potentials of our the potential for our our career, right? As well, uh when we plateau, often times skills become outdated. Um and and and if we're not pursuing intentional growth, we're not keeping pace with what needs to what what what we need to be able to do in order to in order to merit those promotions, right? And so, um while it it probably takes extra time,
15:18 and it's not something that can be done only while we're, you know, on the clock, we need to be engaged in developing our professional skills uh it it in order in a very intentional way in order to not become subject to a career plateau. Now, for those of us who are professionals, we're required to do continuing education. I I I will say that, you know, having been except for my time in the Navy, having been subject to continuing education requirements for my entire professional life,
15:55 what's required is often times, you know, not anything that's going to keep us up-to-date. And so, I know in in in with what I currently do is you know, having a multi-family office practice, I I'm looking for actual opportunities to increase my knowledge, to um be among people who know more than I do. So, for example, next week, I'm going to something called STEP LA. This is a very uh high-level conference on
16:30 estate planning and wealth wealth management and that sort of thing. It is what I do, uh but, you know, these are people There's one person coming all the way from the UK who's going to be at this conference, right? So, and and they're they're held in different cities throughout the world. I'm really looking forward to it because I think it'll be an opportunity for that to really stretch uh the limits of of my knowledge and and and give me an opportunity to really grow professionally. I think we all need to be looking for those opportunities. So,
17:08 um as well, um we we need to keep our networks vital. If network networks tend to shrink when we're not exposed to new people and new ideas. And and again, that that is very problematic. So, I know I routinely review my network and I look at, you know, with whom do I need to work to develop closer relationships? You know, who who like me wants to be growing professionally, puts an emphasis on that on challenging
17:45 ourselves, right? And what I'm seeing is to a certain extent, my network is growing younger, right? So, uh whereas 5 years ago, most of my network I think was were my peers in age, now a a big segment of it is people who are, you know, as much as probably 30 years younger than me. Um and and it's kind of interesting because it's it's quite exciting to work with people who are um not as far along in their careers as
18:20 as as I am, uh but but who are interested in in growing. And so, if we do not if we allow ourselves to plateau and we don't rejuvenate our our relationships, our network, that that becomes very problematic. Um and then, as we fail to keep up intellectually, as we fail to um not you know, to to as I was saying a moment ago, rejuvenate our networks, so then I think confidence
18:55 tends to decline because uh you know, we we we we start to get almost afraid of, well, I don't know this or I don't know that. I I don't think I can compete with, you know, smarter, younger, whatever, you know, word you would use to describe the competition. And so, uh you know, and people can sense that, right? So, I'm not saying that we should develop uh you know, sort of egotistical uh you know, "Oh, I know everything."
19:31 you know, attitudes. Not at Not at all. Quite to the contrary. I think uh confidence and humility often go together. Uh but, we we don't want um our confidence to uh decline. It's one thing to be uh humble about our abilities and our skills and experiences. It's another thing to be afraid that they're not up to speed, right? And And that that especially for those of us who are in business, uh our own businesses, I should say, that that can be absolutely
20:06 deadly. And then finally, long-term uh um plateauing uh can reduce our readiness for retirement um and because it reduces our wealth-building potential. So, these are all the sort of hidden costs of uh of hitting a career plateau, of career stagnation. So, let's take a quick break and we'll come back for more. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't
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21:08 >> [snorts]
21:09 >> Okay, a little little little little problem with the sponsor break there. But in any event, let's let's let's move on with our discussion of career plateaus. So, I I mentioned this a few minutes ago. What are some signs that you may have hit a career plateau? Well, first of all, your your learning curve has flattened. If if you are not engaged in what is the the the most current issues in your profession, in your industry, you know, you are not you you may very well have
21:45 plateaued, okay? So, if you're, you know, not going to conferences or reading the the journals of of your profession so that you know what are the current challenges, what are the the new ways of dealing with them, right? That's a sign that you've plateaued. Um if you are if if your compensation no longer reflects your value. So, if you if you're frustrated because maybe your income has been flat for several years, so it could be that you've hit a career plateau. Now, by the way,
22:22 it could be you've hit a career plateau because you're in an organization that doesn't offer the opportunity for you to advance. Okay? And if that's the case, then it may be time to look to move to another company. So, not all career plateaus are self-imposed per se, right? Especially if you work for a smaller company, and if it's a family-run business, it may be that there is no opportunity for you to move up into the most senior ranks because they they are and will always be held by
22:58 family members. Okay, well, that that's how this company works. I I would argue that for family-run businesses, that's not necessarily a good policy. But, if that's how your company operates, it may be time to make a move. One way to know is if is what have what have other people done in that company, right? How many people are there for a long period of time and and and who and and if and if they've been there for a long period of time, what how is it how have their careers developed? Did they get to a
23:33 certain point and then level out and that's it? You know, that and and maybe and there are cases where you know, for some people that's fine. That's what they want to do. But, if you want to keep advancing your career, it may be that you're going to need to go to another company. Okay? Um if leadership has has stopped discussing your advancement opportunities, again, you've you've probably plateaued. The classic case is the one I just mentioned where it's a family-owned business and the most senior leadership roles are not open to non-family members. But, it can happen even in large companies where
24:10 presumably there's lots of opportunity for growth. If for whatever reason your supervisor or or the people who tend to make who who who who who make decisions about career advancement, if if you're not part of that discussion, then it could be that they're perceiving you as having plateaued, and so now you're essentially irrelevant with respect to that issue. Now, that doesn't mean that it's fatal for you. If you if you have hit that plateau, you can look at and we'll we'll uh you can look at ways to revitalize
24:47 your career and put yourself back on the radar radar of the people who who do make those decisions, right? If now, if you feel disengaged or emotionally checked out, okay, again, not only is that a sign of a career plateau, but it may be something even even broader in the sense that perhaps what you're doing just doesn't interest you anymore, and it may be time for you to look at just a you know, a complete career makeover, okay? But, it could also be that there
25:22 are other things going on in your life that are usurping energy for your professional life. So, you know, as as as as you think about these things, you may have hit a career plateau as is evidenced by your feeling disengaged from your job, but there may be a reason for that, okay? So, perhaps, you know, there's something going on in your personal life, and and you're feeling disengaged. Well, that can be remedied, and again, you can get back on a career track. And
25:57 by the way, it may be okay to be disengaged professionally for a short period of time if it if it's done so in order for you to deal with some other issue. Maybe maybe you had, you know, God forbid, a death in the family, or you know, a marriage broke up or something like that. So, um in those cases, taking some time to mourn those losses it is important, and not doing so could actually create more career havoc down the line, okay? So, just because you
26:32 feel in disengaged or emotionally checked out, that doesn't mean you again, that you're you're permanently on the wrong track. Examine why you feel that way. Is it due to some other maybe personal issue, or is it what's going on in the company for which you work. If it's the latter, so then that's that is a a broader professional issue and it may be time for a change. And finally, it if you're in the kind of job that that recruiters, you know, are with which recruiters are involved
27:09 and and you're finding recruiters are not contacting you anymore, that's probably a a very good sign that you've hit a career plateau, right? If if if your if your professional qualifications and experiences are vital, recruiters are going to be coming, you know, they're going to be contacting you, okay? You may say thank you very much, I'm not interested, but you still want them contacting you, okay? So, uh the the reality is that um strategic career moves uh are are
27:46 important because oftentimes they're the ones that actually create wealth-building opportunities. So, although stability can feel like, "Okay, I'm I'm I'm on this path and I'm I'm building incrementally my my my wealth." That and that's fine. I mean, if it is fine for you, good. But oftentimes it that that system tends to erode. And so, making a strategic career move is going to improve your financial prospects. So, uh you know, if if you um
28:25 uh if if if especially if you feel like your income has plateaued. So, making a major jump oftentimes can also jump-start your financial growth, okay? So, changing roles, changing companies, possibly even changing industries, right? So, you may be um I don't know you know an HR professional, right? And you may be in a particular industry that for various reasons has is has seen slow growth over the
29:00 last few years. So, perhaps you can take your professional skills and experiences and move to an industry where things are happening more rapidly, where there's more opportunity for career growth, etc. That will typically come with a with the opportunity to advance yourself financially as well. So, the other thing about putting yourself in a new career environment is because it's challenging you, it's going to in essence force you to accelerate your
29:35 skill development. And sometimes we have to put ourselves in an uncomfortable position in order to motivate ourselves to do what we we know we should be doing anyway. So, getting out of our comfort zones can be a very effective way of not only advancing our professional abilities, but then also building our our our advancing our our wealth building as well. So, uh you know, depending on again on on on
30:12 what industry you're in, what you do, changing changing companies or industries and and and taking a calculated risk, it could lead to your being able to perhaps get some kind of ownership or equity stake in a business or get to a leadership level that you hadn't considered before. So, I was talking to a Navy buddy of mine yesterday. We hadn't spoken for a while and he was telling me about a an opportunity that he's looking at and
30:47 it you know, he he was saying I'm I'm not sure if this is really going to come together and you know, we were kind of bouncing it back and forth. The way I saw it is he should stay engaged in in in the effort to bring it to fruition if for no other reason then he go from being an employee to being a business owner or at least a part business owner and thereby getting equity or the I should say the opportunity to grow equity in a business that he at least partly owns
31:23 as he advances his professional opportunities, right? I I I have another friend of mine who just recently left the company at which he was and despite the fact that they had given him an equity stake in the company, but in the end it was so small and the likelihood that he would ever see anything out of it just wasn't enough to keep him there. He he's he's better off moving on into something else, right? And so in all of these they're all calculated risks. That's why the payoffs are greater,
31:59 right? The more risk, the greater the potential payoff and and and but these can be looked at as part of a strategic career move. So um I already mentioned this point a moment ago, but when I talked about changing into a different industry, the the the change into a different industry doesn't have to be dramatic. You know, you can look at some kind of adjacent industry. So if if you're a teacher in the public school system for example, perhaps there's an opportunity for you to move
32:35 into corporate education Um or or something along those lines. Now, that's that's a challenging industry, I acknowledge. Um it's not nearly as as uh good an opportunity as it would have been, you know, 30 years ago. Uh but but for all of us, I think, there are there are sort of adjacent industries that we should consider. I know for myself, I started out about uh 2 and 1/2 3 years ago uh intending to really just be an independent trustee and probate administrator and really focused on the probate administration
33:11 side of things. And here I am, like I said, almost 3 years later, my business is morphing into more of really a multi-family office practice. And for for what I do, for the the knowledge, skills, and experience that I have, uh it it's it's a great fit uh and and it gives me even more opportunity than I saw before. And there's not a whole lot of difference between what I had thought I would do to what I'm doing now, except for how I present myself to the public.
33:47 Uh and and and and then how they perceive my abilities. Right? And then finally, um career mobility, it often creates stronger long-term negotiating power. So, even if you don't make a move, the fact that you can gives you a stronger negotiating position for staying at the company at which you are currently. And and so, all of these give you greater strategic opportunity, and they often give you greater wealth-building
34:22 opportunities. And that in the end is the key, right? Uh we we we we pursue our professional goals for for reasons, but presumably one of them is to to make money. Echoes of the title of the show, right? People making money. And if we can make, you know, 10, 15, 20% more doing what we're already doing, well, that's that's fantastic, whether we can whether we have the negotiating leverage to do that at our current company or whether that will require us to make a move, a lateral move, or
34:57 hopefully an advancement move, all of that is part of making sure we're not in a career plateau, a career plateau. And then finally, if you if you do decide that in order to get off of a career plateau, you need to move to another company or another industry, you want to do it in a smart way. You don't want to leave for emotional reasons, right? And it can be this can be the most frustrating part of all because if your company uh it it is not giving you the
35:33 opportunity that you want, that all by itself is frustrating, but especially if it it's not giving you the opportunity that you thought was implicit, if not explicit, when you were hired. So then there's there's, you know, potentially resentment can build. And I know in my uh it was my second job out out of college, I went to work for a real estate syndicator, and you know, he had all these highfalutin plans for me, um and I worked, you know, thousands of hours, you know, overtime
36:11 that wasn't compensated, all kinds of things, and after doing that, and you know, for for 2 years, I wasn't there wasn't any greater potential for me in the company uh than there was the the the the first day I I there. And it was largely because it was a family business and and the family was going to run it no matter what. And that And that's That's how I realized that. And and I I frankly felt pretty bitter about it. And uh uh the you know, the parting between me and and the man that I worked for was was was not very good. Although, I will say he was the one who cried, not me.
36:48 [laughter] So, um but you know, and and and and in the end I I I was happy to go. So, uh there were several steps, I think, that one needs to take before you leave. One is to evaluate your market value before making a move. I will say that I mis evaluated my market value uh when I left that that that second job out of college. My My essential plan was uh well, this guy that I worked for made a half a million dollars last year. And by the way, this was in the mid-1980s.
37:24 And he didn't even go to college. I went to college. I should be able to make a lot more money than that, right? That very I look very naive. I was in my mid-20s, didn't really know a whole lot about these kind of things. Um and and if I had been smarter, I would have Not that I Not that I would have stayed cuz I don't think I would have. Uh but I would have looked more carefully at what really was my market value. Uh because I created a lot of frustration for myself in having to come to terms with the fact that my value on the market was not nearly as high. Al- Al- Although, it was
37:59 much higher than what he was paying me, it was not nearly as high as, you know, what I had built up in my head. So, you know, and and nowadays it's easier to do than ever. There are all kinds of websites where you can you can search different uh you know, um job titles and such and and see what what compensation packages look like pretty much anywhere in the United States. And so, uh you can be very effective in getting a good sense of what you're worth on the open market. Now, the key, of course, is to being is to be honest with yourself. What really are my skills? What really
38:34 are what real what level at what level am I really? And and and that that level of self-honesty can be difficult. And this may be something to do with an accountability partner who, you know, helps you keep realistic. So, the next thing is to build a financial runway and an emergency fund first. Okay? Now, you know, when I when I did that exit, I was very young. I didn't I didn't have a bunch of expenses. I had a you know, I had a college loan, rent, food, you know, a car, although I think I owned my car
39:10 outright, if I recall correctly. And and so, you know, look, I didn't need a whole lot of financial runway. Um but, you know, if you're more advanced in your career, obviously, you got to make sure that you can meet your financial obligations. And so, you know, before you step out, make sure that you've got, you know, whatever you think you need in order to keep yourself going before you'll get another position. And then, probably, you know, multiply that by at least 50% if not by a factor or add on to that, I should say, 50% multiplied by a factor of 1 and 1/2 or maybe two,
39:47 right? And that way, you can go you can move you can move on with confidence, right? There's nothing Well, I shouldn't say I I don't want to be that this hyperbolic, but one of the things that can make negotiating for a new role difficult is the is is a sense of kind of financial constraint, like I've got to get some money in, right? And oftentimes, we we don't think that we're we're we're presenting any kind of picture of of constrained or desperation, Uh uh but we are. And and companies will take advantage of that.
40:23 So, we want to be able to negotiate from a strong position, and that means making sure we have financial runway. So, next, strengthen relationships and references before exiting. So, especially if it's people in your current company, maybe from whom you're going to be counting on uh getting some kind of references or getting, you know, referrals to other people to build your network, to find your next position. So, get a sense of you know, how strong those relationships are. Now, you may not want to tip your hand that that you're thinking about
40:59 leaving, um but but you know, find a way to address the concerns that you have in in a way that you can satisfy yourself as to exactly uh how firm is the ground on which you stand, right? And now, if you do have close associates within the company on whose uh discretion you can rely, so then, okay, good. I mean, you know, you know, at your discretion, you can speak to them fairly candidly and and really find out, okay, you know, here's where I'm at, what you know, I can rely
41:35 on you, great, you know. Now, having said all of that, don't be surprised if in the end some of those people don't come through, right? So, it's a very different thing, you know, being at the same company, kind of, you know, dealing with the same kind of stuff day day to day, and then now you're an outsider, and look, there may be pressure being put on these people to not associate with you, etc. Uh that, you know, that that happens, and um while it may feel like betrayal, and it may actually be betrayal, well,
42:11 you know, we should prepare ourselves for that and not let that knock us off our path. So, next, upgrade your skills while you're still employed. So, if you have an opportunity to go to a conference, for example, take it. You know, take the opportunity to go there, learn more, meet more people, um take all of those opportunities that you can, even if perhaps you have to pay for it yourself. Maybe your company will give you the time, you know, on salary to do that. It could very well be a great idea to pay your own way to
42:47 go to a conference uh in order to, you know, upgrade your skills um in preparation for making a move. And then, when you make when you actually do leave, so leave in a professional way so that you preserve your reputation and future opportunities, if at all possible. Try not to burn bridges. Now, if if you're leaving because you've been treated egregiously and and and you have no intention of ever going back to that company, okay, fine. Uh but but do keep
43:24 in mind that a company considering hiring you is still going to look at how you left, okay? Because companies today, they know no employment situation is forever. And so, if you leave and start saying horrible things about the company that you left, a company hiring you may look at that and say, "Well, you know, I don't think we want this person because what if something goes wrong and the person wants to leave? Are they going to say horrible things about us as well, you know, even if it you
43:59 know, if it even if in our case it's not justified, right?" And so, it's it's always Well, I shouldn't say always, but almost always better to take the high road, you know. You know, if there's if there's negative things that have to be said about your prior company, like they ask you, you know, why did you leave, you know. Be as innocuous as you can. Well, there just wasn't the opportunity for growth there that I that I that I'm looking for. Oh, why is that? Well,
44:35 Uh look, you know, in the end it's it's a family owned and run business and you know, they're entitled to hold the most senior roles for family members and and so that just that just left me out of the formula. Um I you know, that's a pretty factual statement that isn't something you'd want to broadcast, but perhaps it's an appropriate thing to say in a meeting to discuss a job depending on, you know, where you're at in in in the in the hiring process. So, but you want to be make sure that you're measured, you're factual, and and whatever you say
45:10 is said without rancor because that's what will damage your long-term reputa- I'm sorry, that's what will sustain your long-term reputation, whereas badmouthing the company will damage it and and of course then damage you long-term as well. So, those those thought Those are thoughts on hitting a career plateau. Now, having said all of this, look, you may have gotten to the level to which you want to get, you don't want to go any farther. And and if that's if that's where you're
45:46 content to be, there's nothing wrong with that, okay? Nothing wrong I'm not implying that, you know, one you know, that it's there's something bad inherently bad about being at a career plateau. It all It all has to do with your professional goals. But I think for most of us, we don't want to plateau. We want to keep growing. Okay? And and if so, I I you know, encourage you to take these these thoughts to heart and and act accordingly. So, I thank you very much for joining me today. If you have comments, questions, criticisms, uh look look down below you in the show
46:21 notes, you'll see links to social media, my email address, happy to respond to those. And then my slate of shows for the week, Mondays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, Trusts and Estates Weekly. Tuesdays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, Business Lessons from the Military. Wednesdays, like today, at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, People Making Money. And then every other Thursday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific time is my show Jigger's Sis Place, where we have a cocktail and a schmooze and talk about things unrelated to our finances. So, lots of lots of opportunities for us
46:56 to be together during the week. If you are not a subscriber, I I would really appreciate if you would consider subscribing either to my YouTube channel or on Spotify or Apple Podcast. And if you know of someone that you think would benefit from the kind of information ideas that I share on my shows, please send them a link to to an episode. I'd love to have the opportunity to gain them as a regular viewer, if not a subscriber, as well. So again, thank you so much for joining me today. Wishing you a wonderful rest
47:32 of the day and signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage at all times, my friends.