0:02 Who [music] are you? And where are you going?
0:09 >> [music]
0:09 >> What do you want?
0:18 >> Hello and welcome to Trust and Estates Weekly. I'm your host Kevin Bemel and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about estate planning and trust and probate administration. Uh typically from the standpoint of professionals like myself and my guest Valerie who we do this for a living and that's why we're professionals. But also for those of you who are not professionals, maybe you were appointed as the executor on your parents' will and you're trying to get through this, you know, opaque process and and you want to be able to speak with your
0:54 advisors more cogently. So, hopefully this will give you some information so you can do that. Uh and today I'm I'm very happy to introduce my guest Valerie Pachan. So, uh Valerie is an estate planning attorney down in Orange County, California. We've known each other, I think, a year, year and a half, something like that. Um and and Valerie is part of a a multi-lawyer firm. Uh I I I I know I had one of your associates uh on on the show and I'm I'm going up on her name all of a sudden.
1:27 >> Shilpa?
1:28 >> Uh pardon me?
1:29 >> Shilpa.
1:30 >> Shilpa, that's right. Shilpa was on on the show, I think maybe about a year and a half ago, maybe almost 2 years ago now. And so, you know, I'm going to I'm trying to work my way through the firm.
1:40 >> [laughter]
1:41 >> But Valerie, thank you so much for for joining me today.
1:45 >> You're welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
1:48 >> Great. So, let's start out if you would by, you know, telling us a little bit about your background so people can and to know you.
1:56 >> Yeah, so, um I am an estate planning attorney, like Kevin said. Um I have been practicing law since 2010. Um I initially started off as a family lawyer. And then I came to my senses and uh
2:14 >> [laughter]
2:14 >> realized my heart just couldn't take it anymore. Um No, I mean, I I worked for a mid-size law firm in Irvine. I did that for a few years. Then I um got pregnant with my second child with my husband and high school sweetheart. And we both decided that, you know, it was time for me to focus on our family as opposed to, you know, dealing with everybody else's, you know, family issues and um I took a step back for a little while and, you know, was a stay-at-home mom
2:49 uh for a few years. Um and then, you know, I felt like my heart was calling me back in and, you know, I you know, went back into law and kind of dabbled in a lot of different areas and um found, you know, estate planning and, you know, felt like I was actually, you know, doing something that, you know, made people happy, made people smile, uh which is not something that most lawyers can say and, you know, I've been doing it ever since.
3:23 >> You I mean, it is interesting. Uh I talk to a lot of you know, estate planning lawyers as you might imagine and that is a common thing, a common theme, I should say, that uh they they feel like, you know, they really are doing they're really helping their clients.
3:41 >> Yeah.
3:41 >> In in a in a very personal way.
3:44 >> Yeah. No, I actually have a very interesting story about that. Actually, um what kind of shifted my as far as like why why should I be, you know, in this industry? I mean, I've been doing a completely different legal industry. Um like I had mentioned earlier, I was doing family law. And then when I came back, you know, after, you know, being full-time mom, I um actually got uh hired by my church. Um I uh they hired me on in their legal ministry department. And really what
4:19 they wanted me to do was um be a legal service for, you know, our community, for anyone who had any issues, particularly family law issues.
4:30 >> Mhm.
4:31 >> However, one day um I had, you know, someone come in to our office. Uh it was a homeless man. And, you know, he said to me, "Val, um I don't [snorts] have that much longer to live. You know, I don't have very much. I just have um a storage unit with some, you know, knickknacks and porcelain things. It doesn't mean a lot to a lot of people, but to me it means a lot. And because, you know, certain people in my life really helped me, I want to ensure that they get the things that mean a lot to me."
5:07 >> Mhm.
5:07 >> Now, I had never done estate planning before. And, you know, initially my my my gut reaction was like, you know, I do family law. I don't I don't really, you know, want to learn something new. I don't, you know, want to jump into this. But there was something in his eyes, something in his face, you know, some a sense of desperation. And so, I felt, "Okay, let me figure this out and see what we can do." You know, so I did some research. I found out, you know what? A simple will will suffice. You know, I want to make sure, you know, you know, he has a POA, you know, um one
5:44 of the pastors at our church, you know, would love to step in and be able to make decisions for him, you know, maybe some health care documents and you know, get that in place. So, I kind of coordinated everything. I drafted the documents, you know, I made sure we had our witnesses and you know, made sure he executed everything properly. And when we were done, you know, he looked at me and said, "Val, like, you know, thank you so much. Now I can go and I actually feel peace of mind."
6:14 >> [clears throat]
6:14 >> And you know, he cried, he hugged me, I cried. I mean, it was just kind of this beautiful moment and I think at that at that moment I I thought to myself, "Well, I could I feel I could really do this for a long time. I feel like what we're doing is quite impactful." And um so, that's that's my little story of how, you know, I realized that I could be really changing people's lives and their legacy.
6:42 >> Yeah. I It's so interesting. I have I have a a a friend who's an estate planning lawyer. He was previously a pastor. And and had and not not the same story that you had, but you know, it it is you know, when when you're in that past I'm I'm clergy myself. I was a chaplain in the Navy, which I'm not sure you knew, but when you have that kind of helping heart, uh and or you're used to kind of a ministry sort of focus, it seems like estate planning is a natural place to
7:17 go. I think maybe because the the whole subject that that it it it's sort of talking about, but not really is is one of the fundamental aspects of our humanity, which is we don't live forever. And most of us want to do right by our families. We want to have some peace, especially as we, you know, head into that this you know, our our twilight years.
7:43 >> Yeah.
7:43 >> And and to be able to provide people with that peace, I I think it's very rewarding.
7:49 >> You know, that's a really interesting point and I'm glad you pointed that out because you're right. There is something oddly spiritual about the whole process because I mean, I think like most people who, you know, tend to be spiritual or, you know, whatever it is that you believe, there is not so much a fear of death, you know, because you you kind of have this thought process of like, hey, you know, there's more beyond all this, but the fear really lies in what happens to my family, what happens to my loved ones,
8:24 right? So, I think like you said, there is a a strangely odd like spiritual element to it because, you know, you're not really fearful of yourself. It's more so for those that you leave behind. And there is this sort of like givers component to what you're doing. It it, you know, we're we're living in a world that is very like, what can I do for me? But this is this is one of those things that's like, what can I do for those I leave behind?
8:55 >> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, it it in some ways it's a very selfless thing. Uh because look, at the point where someone's estate plan is sort of being used, they're no longer there. It's really there for the uh peace of mind of those who are left behind to hopefully um help avoid conflicts that might arise once, you know, mom or dad are gone, you know, those kinds of things. So.
9:24 >> Yeah. Yeah.
9:25 >> Yeah.
9:25 >> There's a saying that um most attorneys deal with good people at their worst. Um I like to say that I get to deal with good people at their best because uh you know, we're we're the ones that are being proactive. We're the ones that are really thinking through what our next steps are. And I just feel very blessed that I get to help those people along that journey. So, it is I mean, as cheesy as it sounds, you know, it feels very rewarding to
9:57 >> Doesn't sound cheesy to me, but you know, again, I'm a former military chaplain, so
10:01 >> [laughter]
10:02 >> you're talking my language.
10:03 >> Oh, perfect. Yeah, I love that.
10:06 >> Before we before we, you know, went live, you were telling me that you work with a lot of young families. And you know, I think that's an interesting area because you know, as you were telling me that, I was thinking, gosh, you know, I'm I'm very close with my nephew who's I think he's 29, I want to say, wife, you know, they have they had a baby a little over a year ago, they have a house. I'm thinking to myself, I think I think I need to talk to my
10:42 nephew to make sure that, you know, I there's there's a lot at stake there for him. I don't know. As long as I've been doing this, I don't really think of young people they're going to live forever, right?
10:55 >> So, when most people think about estate planning, they often times think, oh, I need to be, you know, extremely wealthy or I need to be, you know, pretty much, you know, going on to my deathbed, right? That is entirely not the case. In fact, I find that the people that generally benefit the most from estate planning are young families. I mean, let's be clear. I work with everyone. You know, I I love working with, you know, people from all different walks of life.
11:32 I have a particular soft spot for young families because, you know, I myself, you know, have a big family, you know, I have a four kids, three boys and one girl. They're all minors. And so, yes, our house is a bit a bit chaotic, but you know, I have a soft spot for, you know, those that are new to parenting or trying to understand and navigate like what the next steps are to do. Um but yes, I love working with young families because there's so much benefit that they get from estate planning that a lot of people just don't realize or don't think about. Cuz like I said, most
12:08 people think that, you know, you're either wealthy or, you know, seniors. Um they oftentimes don't think about it, but really, you know, the best time to start planning is big life events, you know, getting married, you know, buying your first home, you know, having children, your first child, your second child, your third child, your fourth child, like me, you know.
12:29 >> [laughter]
12:30 >> Those are really moments that you either need to start thinking about estate planning or maybe restructuring your plan.
12:37 >> Mhm.
12:38 >> Yeah.
12:39 >> So, talk if you would uh in in some of the specifics because, you know, typically young families, you know, they they don't have, you know, millions of dollars worth of assets. And yet, I you know, it it listening to you talk about it and when I think about, okay, a comprehensive estate plan, the financial side of it is actually only one part, right? So,
13:02 >> Absolutely.
13:03 >> Right. And if you do have children, I you know, I think about the estate plan I had when I was married, the actually the financial part was pretty easy.
13:11 >> [laughter]
13:11 >> It was all like it was all the other stuff that actually took time and thought and what are we going to do kind of stuff. So, talk about, you know, some of those issues for us.
13:20 >> Yeah, no, absolutely. Um so, 90% of the population needs some sort of planning. The reality is only about 30% have any planning at all. And within that 30% a lot of it is insufficient planning, whether it be, you know, it's not executed properly or perhaps, you know, Uncle Bob, who's a family lawyer, you know, helping them out, you know, does something something falls through the cracks, right? Um so for me, when I sit with someone, I like to really, you know, evaluate their circumstances. And it's not a
13:55 one-size-fits-all for everyone, but I want to make sure that um at least the foundational stuff is there, you know? And so generally, you know, if we have like a typical young couple, maybe they're newly married, maybe they're having their first baby, they're purchasing their first starter home. Realistically, what I would suggest for them is a revocable living trust plan, okay?
14:19 >> Okay.
14:19 >> Now, in that plan, the most important document is going to be the trust, you know, I like to call it the mother document of of them all. This is the document that allows them to say, you know, this is, you know, all the things we've worked so hard to build, uh these are, you know, all the people in our life that we love, this is how we want to distribute it to them, okay? Now that how component is very important, right? Because when you have young kids, you want to make sure that you are structuring it in a way where you're not just protecting them from, you know, outside forces, you
14:54 know, creditors or, you know, potential special needs issues, but you also want to protect them from themselves, right? So, the trust allows you to structure who gets what, how that gets distributed to them. Um but but the most important reason why most people want to get a trust is that it avoids probate. Um I know you're very familiar with probate. Uh you work with a lot of families dealing with that process, but there's three particular reasons why, you know, you'll want to avoid probate. One, it's extremely
15:29 expensive. Two, it's very time-consuming. And last but not least, it's public, which, you know, especially with young kids, you want to avoid any sort of um family issues being outside the family, right? So, that's the most important document. Um the second document that I always want to make sure that, you know, they have is a will. If you have a trust, then it's going to be called a pour-over will. This document essentially allows, you know, you to assign an executor that
16:05 manages things that are in your name. So, the trust manages things in the trust, you know, your trustee manages
16:12 >> Mhm.
16:12 >> the will, it's an executor who manages things that are in your name. What the pour-over will does, on top of that, is that it also is sort of a backup plan to the plan. It allows, you know, anything that falls outside of the trust to be put back into the trust.
16:28 >> Mhm.
16:28 >> Um I think the most important thing that that pour-over will is going to do, though, for young families is that's where your guardian designation lies.
16:37 >> Oh.
16:38 >> where you could say, "Hey, God forbid, something happens to the both of us. Tomorrow's never promised. Who loves our child as much as we do? Who will raise our child the way we believe? Or you know, who has the same, you know, educational, moral compass, or, you know, spiritual, you know, ideology? You know, all those things are important. We all know people who look great on paper that we do not want raising our children. Mhm. And the reality is, without this guardian designation in place, someone who we don't know, a judge,
17:14 >> [laughter]
17:14 >> is going to decide for us
17:16 >> Right.
17:16 >> who that person is.
17:18 >> Um and so I think that although I say I always say that trust is the most important document, I think for a lot of parents this guardian designation section is the most important section for them because it just gives them that peace of mind that someone is going to step into their shoes that has that same um just mental and moral compass that they do raising their child.
17:41 >> Right. Something you said a minute ago really resonated with me because I was in probate court this morning on a matter and um there were you know what probate notes are that you know the things you have to clear and one of the probate notes would would would have required me to put into the public record private documents. And you know I talked to my lawyer about that. I said, you know I I I'm not comfortable doing that. I don't I I know this is a probate the the decedent died intestate, okay? But you
18:16 know as the as the fiduciary I don't I'm not comfortable putting the beneficiaries business into the public record. And so he asked the judge if it could be you know submitted to the court sealed and she said why why should I let you submit it sealed? And I said, well these are private business documents. They're they're not nobody else's business and she said no I'm not going to allow that. It's like I mean I mean it's it it's kind of arbitrary and and you know I I I I like if it had been something about my
18:51 children I I think I would have in some ways been even more upset.
18:57 >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean um we live in a crazy world and crazy times and you know there's actually you know a lot of uh people who actually go through the you know probate notes to find out, oh, who just inherited large sums of money, you know, um this is definitely something I wouldn't want my children having to deal with or have having to fend off any, you know, fraudulent, you know, fraudsters out there.
19:27 >> Right.
19:27 >> Right? Um but yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, I think that's a very important component that most people miss. Most people don't think about. Um particularly being, you know, a parent myself of young children, I find that this is something I really want to protect my kids from.
19:44 >> Right.
19:44 >> Um but yeah, so those two documents that I mentioned, that the trust, uh the will, uh with the guardian designation, those documents really only come into play once you pass, okay? I mean, obviously, you're still young, you still are a parent, you're still thriving, you know, these are not the top of my things you have. But there are going to be a couple documents that would be effective, you know, immediately while you're still alive.
20:10 >> Right. So, uh before we move on to the first one, I I have a question for you, but I'm going to we're going to take a quick break, and then I want to ask you the question about the will.
20:17 >> Absolutely.
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21:06 >> Okay, so you mentioned in the will it appoints a guardian, right? Presumably that's when the children are minors. So, what will happen with that will or that appointment at the point where the children are now no longer minors?
21:22 >> Well, that's the goal, right? I mean, the goal is we live a very long time and we never have to see, you know, that guardian designation come to fruition because our kids are grown, they're adults, they can take care of themselves. But, technically once they turn 18, you know, they have no need for a legal guardian at that point because they would be considered adults at that point.
21:44 >> Okay, so just as a matter of law that particular clause essentially becomes inoperative.
21:49 >> Correct.
21:49 >> Okay, okay, okay. I I thought that that was probably the case, but I think it's it's worth people knowing that because like do I have to get my documents, you know, revised once my children turn 18 or do I have to get them
22:02 >> is Yeah, the goal is you had an attorney drafted in a way that, you know, it's going to keep on going no matter what happens in life, right?
22:12 >> Right. Now, is it you know, could it be drafted in a way where, you know, they they don't become an adult from the standpoint of the will until they're, you know, 21 even though here in California it's 18?
22:23 >> Yeah, so good question. Um so, there especially when it comes to the trust, you know, there's a lot of provisions where you can if someone's under your care and, you know, maybe they have special needs, perhaps they are, you know, never going to really be able to take care of themselves, um and you're always going to have to have someone step in and and manage their affairs, that is something that absolutely can be drafted into a trust. Um Now, you know, there's even provisions inside a trust where you can assign, you know,
22:59 someone who you you as a conservator for for, you know, a for a child that needs one, right? So, there's a lot of things that, you know, you can essentially put into your documents to ensure that you're protecting your kids because, let's be real, some of our kids will require parenting for very long time.
23:20 >> Right. Right.
23:21 >> not all, but, you know, some.
23:23 >> Yeah. I I I was having lunch earlier today with a friend. I'm going to give him a free plug, Michael Malloy. So, we both have um practices helping people essentially with a lot of these issues. And and Michael and I concluded the people who inherit inherit money basically fall into three cate- well, four categories. There's the ones that they're going to deal with it themselves and they'll be fine. But, that that doesn't involve us, you know, by by definition. But, there's the people who don't want to handle it, can't handle it, shouldn't handle it.
23:59 Right? And and you know, I think much of especially when you're talking about younger families, they may not know, you know, in those latter two cases that they can't or shouldn't handle it. Um but, I mean, I can think of a number of instances where even even adult children should not be handling, you know, the money that they're inheriting. So, right? I I know that's not quite young families, but how does a young family How do you advise young families who
24:34 maybe they are concerned about that? Maybe it is a health challenge, but maybe it's it's something else. Maybe it's not really a health challenge per se.
24:43 >> Oh, absolutely. Um well, the guardian designation section is is just like a legal term. Once someone becomes an adult, they don't necessarily need a guardian anymore. But, on the trust part of it, you know, the managing of the assets and the funds, that's where you can start to be very creative with how you outline things. So, I like to have a really deep discussion with my parent my parents. I sit down with them and ask them about their kids and kind of ask them about their family situation. And depending on how things are, I can structure things, you know, pretty differently. I'll tell
25:19 you how, you know, I've structured things for my kids and some of my clients as well. Um I like to stagger the distribution um because, you know, the scariest thing to do is, you know, leave a huge sum of money outright that is unearned, you know,
25:34 >> Mhm.
25:34 >> to anybody, let alone someone who just turned 18, which is exactly what happens if you don't have a trust, by the way. Um but I staggered their district I staggered the distribution by a third. So, 1/3 I leave to them at 25, you know, 1/3 I'll leave at 30, the remainder at 35. But in the meantime, I allow for the HEMS discretion, which is health, education, maintenance, and support. I want my trustee to be able to, you know, maybe front-load that money for important things, such as, you know, they get into
26:11 Yale Medical School and, you know, they need the tuition money. Or what if they have a health issue and, you know, you know, they they, you know, need the funds to pay for their medical bills or whatever it may be. Things that are important, I want the trustee to have that discretion to, you know,
26:26 >> give it to them. But if there is nothing like of that sort, then they would get their money in a staggered distribution. I find the age 25, 30, 35 are great ages because they're older, they're more mature. This is when a lot of big life events are happening, such as, you know, graduating college, getting married, buying their first homes. You know, I want them to have those funds for those important milestones, but I also don't want the funds to essentially destroy them. Um there's like a statistic out there that most people spend unearned money within 2 years, whether it's, you
27:02 know, $2 or $2 million, right? And so, the last thing you want is, you know, for that funds to actually hurt them.
27:13 >> Mhm. For sure. For sure. So, okay, so we we we we've talked about, you know, a trust and some of the issues for young families related to that and a and a will. Um what other um issues do you raise with young families maybe that aren't as much focused on, you know, after, you know, they're gone, but maybe while, you know, they're still still alive, right?
27:40 >> Um so, like I said, um the trust and the will, those documents really only come into play once, you know, the parents pass. Um there are a few documents that will be effective immediately. Um the first one being that financial power of attorney.
27:54 >> Mhm.
27:54 >> I actually think this is an extremely important document because this allows someone you trust to step into your shoes while you're still alive that can handle business for you. Okay? Handle like financial affairs, you know, sign off checks, you know, deal with the kids' schools, you know, pay for the mortgage. You know, when you have young kids, if you, for whatever reason, become incapacitated or you're not able to do something, life still continues, especially for these young kids. And so, you want someone who can step in and make sure that life is still running smoothly for them
28:30 um because they can't do it themselves. So, you got to make sure that someone can step in and do it. Um in fact, I have a very interesting story. During the pandemic, um my um my aunt was traveling abroad and she got stuck in Asia for 6 months um because, you know, they closed all the airports and no one was flying out of Asia, you know, unless you were going through, you know, flaming fire hoops, you know, I don't know if you remember all the rules about flying. And so, she just said, you know, it's easier for me to just stay. Well, life
29:06 still happens, you know, where she was, and she luckily had a niece who had prepared a POA for her. So, my sister-in-law was able to do a lot for her, manage her affairs, pull out money from her account, you know, transfer, wire it over to her, and, you know, do all sorts of things for her. So, I mean, you can imagine she's uh, you know, just a single lady needing that much help. Imagine being a family with young kids, you know, you definitely need someone you trust to be able to step in and manage things.
29:37 >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the you know, it didn't strike me until you said this a couple minutes ago, but the discontinuity that would be caused for children's lives is far worse than it would be for adults. Look, we as adults, we can understand these things, but Mommy and Daddy are gone, and also I I I don't there's I'm not eating. I have You know what I'm You know what I'm saying? It's it's horrible.
30:00 >> And they're helpless. I mean, they're helpless. It's not like, you know, they can step in and do anything. And so, you know, at that point, not only do you need someone to step in and and physically manage, but you need someone who can legally have the authority to to manage things, you know, to keep the ship sailing.
30:19 >> Well, you know, you know, again, that's an interesting point because, you know, okay, maybe the child is 16, 17 years old, and maybe they could, you know, they could write a check or whatever, but legally, they're not going to be able to do it because they don't have capacity.
30:33 >> Correct. Um and so, I like to have a power of attorney. I like to draft it so that it's immediately, you know, I don't like, you know, it's someone you trust already, I don't want them to have to jump through hoops just to ensure that there's that continuity. But, you know, each case is different and so it sort of depends on what the parents comfort level is. You know, there's some parents out there who don't trust anyone else but themselves, right? But that's my job just to kind of give them that peace of mind and and tell them, you know, what the pros and cons are to every decision.
31:09 But that's definitely one document that I I think is very important for a young parent to have. And another thing that most people don't realize is that spouses also do not have automatic authority over, you know, their spouse. So, you know, you assume that, oh, I'm married to this person. I should be able to do everything for this person, right? Absolutely not right. In fact, I don't know if you've tried doing something as simple as, you know, upgrade your internet provider services if you are married to someone. This is what happened to me, you know, every time I jump on that phone because my husband
31:45 was the one who set up, you know, our account. They're like, I'm sorry, we can't talk to you. He needs to authorize me to speak to you. So, you know, one of the people things that people don't realize is that even if it's only your spouse who's going to be POA, you need to make sure that you authorize them to be your POA.
32:02 >> Yeah.
32:02 >> Um, right? So, power of
32:04 >> And it's even worse with a government agency, by the way. So, I just had an email on that yesterday. So, it's yeah, it's very, very difficult.
32:13 >> Yeah, so absolutely. Um, another obviously other factors to consider is, you know, making sure you have all your health care documents in place as well because, you know, you have children and, you know, they legally can't make these decisions. Making sure that you have someone who at a drop of the dime can come to your rescue in case, you know, you can't make medical decisions for yourself or, you know, someone that a doctor or a hospital or facility can talk to, you know? Someone who can request medical records. And then last but not least, making sure that, you know, someone can make that
32:49 very important decision of whether to keep you or take you off of life support if it's no longer aiding in your quality of life. Definitely not something that should be a burden on, you know, a young family to have to to figure out and deal with. You know, better to have someone you know you trust who can make that right decision. And same situation, without having these agents in place, without having these documents in place, you know, a judge who does not know you is going to determine, you know, a course of action that may or may not be what you want. Um
33:24 >> So when you say health care documents, what what are those documents?
33:28 >> So there's three in particular that I think are very important. The first is the advanced health care directive. This allows your agent to make medical decisions for you on your behalf in the event that you're unable to do so.
33:40 >> Mhm.
33:40 >> Um the second one is the HIPAA authorization. This allows your, you know, trusted agent to receive medical information on your behalf.
33:49 >> Mhm.
33:50 >> Um I actually have a very interesting story about this one. Um I had a dad, um you know, it's also during the crazy pandemic times, but he went into the doctors for a routine checkup. The the hospital said, "Um you have COVID, sir. I'm sending you straight to the hospital." On the way, on transit to going to the hospital, he sort of lost all of his um ability to speak and, you know, just lost a lot of his like uh functioning. Um when he went to the got to the hospital, his children were calling into the hospital every day for a month, and all
34:27 the hospital said was, "I'm sorry, we cannot speak to you, and you cannot come and visit." Because there was no authorization that, you know, his children can talk to the doctors on his behalf. Um so it was a crazy time, but I remember him getting out of the hospital and and saying, "I never want that to happen to my family again. You know, if I do an estate plan, if only for the health care documents, I'm doing it." Um so that the HIPAA authorization is a very important one. And then last but not least, the living will. Um this is the document that lets your agent make that important decision of whether to keep you or take you off of life support.
35:03 >> A- A- A- Again, you sparked a memory for me. I know when I did my living will, so I was married at the time and at first we were thinking, "Okay, well, we'll kind of appoint each other." And then it occurred to me, so I I I follow a you know, traditional, you know, Jewish faith. And I'm like, "Well, you know, nothing against my wife at the time, but she doesn't really know all the rules, right?" So if there's specific aspects, you know, based on your faith tradition, so it may not make the person who you do appoint as your agent, you know, probably should be
35:39 someone who knows that. Maybe it's going to be your your pastor, your rabbi, a priest, or something like that who, you know, can see to it that those those issues are properly addressed.
35:51 >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And something that um most people don't realize is that this is probably the area that causes the most family disputes. Um whenever people are grieving or they're going through the trauma of, you know, a loved one being hurt, a lot of emotions come up. And so having these documents in place that give very clear instructions as far as who's stepping in, who's managing things, it also helps protect your kids in regards to just keeping the family life peaceful, okay?
36:28 Um another story, I had a a very good friend of mine, her mom, you know, told her like, "If I ever or if I have never put on life support, and you know, if I come out and I'm not going to be myself, I don't want this, you know, make sure that this does not ever happen to me. That's my belief, that's what I want."
36:50 >> Okay.
36:52 >> And my friend knew this is what her mom wanted, you know, lo and behold, you know, decades later, her mom, you know, had a stroke, she was, you know, put on life support. Um they said if she came back out, she would be brain dead, not functioning. So, she told her, you know, her family members, "Hey, this is what, you know, my mom wanted, this is what I'm going to do." Her aunt came into the picture and said, "Nope, my sister would have never done this, this is not what my sister believes in, she believes that she should fight no matter what, and even if she's in that, you know, vegetated
37:28 state, you know, we our faith, we're we need to care for her. Even though, you know, she clearly stated she did not want to live this way."
37:37 >> Right.
37:38 >> Well, long story short, you know, my friend ended up, you know, fighting with her aunt, her aunt called her a murderer.
37:46 >> Oh my gosh.
37:47 >> You know, this was her favorite aunt, too, by the way. She succumbed and she ended up not doing what she want her mom wanted. Her mom is now living, but she's just not herself. I mean, she, you know, can't speak, she can't talk, she can't feed herself, you know, this is not the life her mom wanted. Um but, you know, she felt bullied, you know, into this because of whatever, you know, they claimed. Even That's why I'm I'm like such a stickler on making sure everything's written down, making sure you have, you know, clearly appointed the people that you want to appoint to make those decisions, because you don't
38:23 want it to hurt the people that you love
38:26 >> Right.
38:27 >> by, you know, causing that family drama to happen.
38:31 >> Right. And and it sounds like you know, I I mean I guess she could have gone to court, but who wants to go through a court fight over something like that with with a relative, let alone your beloved aunt.
38:43 >> So, it was her favorite aunt. You know, she was, you know, just felt like she didn't want to fight that fight, but even now they don't speak. So, you know, it completely destroyed a family. And that was definitely not her mom's intention.
39:00 >> Right. Right. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk some more.
39:04 >> Sure.
39:09 >> [snorts]
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39:45 searching. So, we we um right before the the break, we were talking about um various health care directives and um the the importance of them. So, let's talk if you would a little bit about a situation where okay, somebody has been, you know, it's a young family. Um they have maybe a couple of children who are young. Um, and what is going to happen
40:22 if they don't have a guardian appointed in their will? If there aren't these health care directives, I mean what what's going to happen?
40:35 >> Well, I mean, it's going to be a very confusing time for, you know, everyone around them, everyone surrounding them. Um guardian issues are uh some of the most highly litigious issues there are. I mean, you can imagine whenever young children are involved. Um it could be that there are multiple grandparents that, you know, want guardianship or aunts, uncles, you know, brother, sisters, and, you know, they mean well. They think they're doing what's best for the kids, but uh you know, they end up just litigating in court and dragging things on, and,
41:10 you know, causing a lot of, you know, grief and hardship on these young kids, just kind of not having stability, not knowing what, you know, the next, you know, permanent solution is. Um
41:21 >> I mean, would you mind if I interrupt?
41:23 >> I mean, would any particular individual, you know, by law, I don't know, have priority as as, you know, you know, a guardian or or you know, kind of parents at light them, if you will?
41:37 >> Yeah, usually a judge will make that determination. You know, often times it would be, you know, a grandparent, um you know, or a very close family member that can step in, but you know, sometimes those people don't want that, you know? So, it would be um like a process of like a judge just sort of determining, you know, who the guardian is going to be. And it's not always the most obvious people. That's why it's so important to have that guardian designation because it might be that you you don't want your your your grandparents to be, you know, raising the kids Or, you know, your sister,
42:13 because maybe she has, you know, some issues that people don't aren't aware of, you know, or problems that you don't agree with, right? So, it could be that you want to designate, you know, a good family friend or someone that a judge would never really think about. So, that's why, you know, for me, that question is always the most important, but it's also the hardest question. You know, and I think that's why it's important to sit down with an attorney to really evaluate what is involved in this process and, you know, who that ideal person's going to be.
42:49 >> So, I mean, even at its best, it seems to me like that process could take some time. What's going to happen with children while the court is figuring out who's going to have custody of them legally?
43:03 >> Well, first a judge is going to determine like a temporary guardian, you know, if there is nobody who steps up that can, you know, temporarily be there, you know, the kids will will be managed by the state, you know, and
43:20 >> might go into foster care or
43:22 >> if there's no Yeah, if there's nobody who steps up in in that interim of them figuring it out, it's happened before. Um you know, so one of the things that I often like to do with some of my clients is I want to even not only have like a clear this is the guardian who's going to step in, but we'll even have an like interim guardian, because sometimes the guardian lives out of the country or out of the state and, you know, there might be some time lag, right? So, I'll even put in provisions of like, well, in the interim, this is the person who I want to step in and, you know, watch them during this time period.
43:56 >> Mhm.
43:56 >> So, the beautiful thing about drafting these documents is that it can be as simple or as comprehensive as you want. And, you know, that's why it's important to sit down with an attorney because sometimes boiler plate language is just not going to cut it. And, you know, you know your family best. You know your circumstances best. And so, you know, being able to verbalize your circumstances to an attorney that has the legal knowledge and the experience, they'll be able to guide you as far as what the best course of action is.
44:29 >> Right. Right. I mean, this is the first time it ever occurred to me that, you know, a couple with young children, God forbid, they were to, you know, pass, and and the children could, you know, quite literally end up in not not that necess- foster care is necessarily horrible, but here's these children, you know, with that that are, you know, they've lost their parents and and they're thrown into this chaotic situation.
44:58 >> Yeah. Yeah.
44:59 >> you're, you know, potentially, you know, a lifelong trauma and some
45:03 >> Yeah, I mean, it's not an easy process. It's not like, you know, just because, you know, you you know your best friend is going to step in and help. It's not like a judge is going to automatically just say, "Oh, here's this random person that's going to step in and, you know,
45:17 >> Right.
45:17 >> that take care of your children." I mean, it is a complex legal process. And so, you're making the judge's life a whole lot easier by saying, "Hey judge, this is the person I want stepping in.
45:31 >> Yeah.
45:31 >> You know, I'm making your job extremely easy. So, let's make my kids' life extremely easy."
45:37 >> Right. Right. So, so we're we're we're kind of getting toward the end here now, but take us, if you would, through any other um issues uh that that you think, you know, young families need to kind of have on their radar,
45:53 >> Yeah.
45:54 >> you know, for going through this process.
45:56 >> So, for me, the biggest issue is always protecting our kids from ourselves. I know I touched on it a little earlier. And the reason why this is a big issue for me is because I remember a good friend of mine when I was about 19 years old. He was 19 as well. He had lost his parents in a tragic car accident. And they had left him and his sister a large life insurance policy.
46:29 >> [clears throat]
46:29 >> And of course because there was no trust, there was no designation of how it was going to go to him and he was 19 at the time, he inherited it outright. I vividly recall the first year or so you know, he in the instead of grieving, he was spending. I mean, he was we were going out, he was taking all his friends out. All of a sudden his friend group grew even bigger because, you know, he was buying everybody dinner and you know, we were partying and he was just, you know, his first purchase was like an M5 BMW
47:05 which was like his dream car, right?
47:08 >> [laughter]
47:09 >> And then a few years later all the money was gone. I mean, this was the money that his parents had set up for his college, for him to like live off of, for him to survive and he blew it all in a couple years. And I remember he just became MIA after that. He disappeared. He finally went through the grieving process because he, you know, didn't have [clears throat] the money to sort of hide the pain. And he disappeared for some time and I heard from friends of friends that, you know, he went into a very deep dark
47:44 depression after, you know, spending all that money and then recognizing that he no longer had his parents around. And it's actually a pretty tragic story. He ended up dying fairly young um different health complications. Um but I think about him every time I sit down with a parent. Every time I'm sitting there and going through a plan with a parent and figuring out, "Hey, what's best for your child?" I think we're not just protecting your kids from the courts. We're not just protecting your kids from creditors. We're not just protecting your kids from losing their, you know, um
48:19 benefits. We're we're protecting your kids from themselves.
48:23 >> Mhm.
48:24 >> And that's huge.
48:26 >> For sure.
48:27 >> That's huge. Um and I think, you know, because I went through that and it was someone who was kind of close to me, um I feel like I have a pretty uh clear perspective of where I want to guide my parents, you know? I I sort of don't take no for an answer. We're sitting here and we're going to finish planning this for you.
48:49 >> Right.
48:50 >> [laughter]
48:52 >> Right. That's important perspective for people to hear uh because it's so easy to to put these things and I mean I see it in in my work because often times I'm involved when when there's an intestation. And the pain, the suffering, the the cost, the time, the impact on family members is huge.
49:23 >> Yeah.
49:24 >> And I mean, I don't think it's what the decedent intended to do. But um I I know in one case he was working on an estate plan, but but for whatever reason the lawyer just couldn't get him to, you know, drive it home and I did I did speak to her um after he died because I wanted to get a hold of it to just see what did it say, you know, that might help me you know, with the intestate succession. And I felt like Yeah. She needed to do what you just said.
49:56 >> Yeah.
49:56 >> You know, she needed to say, "Look, you're not leaving this office until these papers are signed." Or or or however it's I don't know if that's how you do it, but I'm just saying that's somebody has got to I don't know, be the adult in the room kind of.
50:11 >> Yeah. Yeah, so that's one of the things that um I think is important when you sit down with an attorney. You know, you don't want someone who is just preparing documents for you. Because let's be real, you know, you can get documents anywhere. You know, you want someone who can sit down and and create with you, right? Create a road map, a love letter to your families. Someone who not only helps you create this, but also motivates you to keep on going. Um one of the things that our firm provides
50:46 that I think kind of separates us from a lot of firms out there is we provide lifetime guidance to all our clients. So, I don't want my clients to be afraid to call me. I don't want them to say, "Hey, if I call Val, I'm going to get a $600 bill in the mail." You know, no. I want them to call me, you know, if something is changing, if they're getting pushed back at the bank, you know, if they're confused because their kids are changing and they don't know if they want their kids to, you know, have the same distribution. I mean, those are the questions that I want my clients reaching out to me and asking. So, not only am I pushing them and motivating them to the right direction, but I'm
51:22 also wanting them to reach out to me and let me know what's going on as well. Um I think that's very important when you are searching an attorney that you're with someone who's in it with you for the long haul.
51:33 >> Mhm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you know what? That's actually I think a good note to to to to end this on that Um so, so you know, uh Fo- folks, those of you who watch the show on a regular basis, you know I I do not have people on this show who will not serve you well. And you can see that that Valerie's [laughter] name is well well indicative. She has a deep passion for helping people with these issues. And
52:08 it's coming from a place of wanting to make sure that her clients are better off for having worked with her. And not just her the clients, but the clients' families. And so Valerie's contact information will be in the show notes. So whether you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify or Apple Podcasts, just look below in the show notes. And if you have questions, concerns, reach out to Valerie. I I I know that she will be happy to speak with you. And and if if you know, if
52:45 it's just a phone call, it's just a phone call. But but better to better the worst question is the one that is not asked.
52:53 >> Yeah. Yeah.
52:56 >> Right? Is it
52:57 >> I'm here for, you know, I'm here for, you know, my my young families, you know, my my young families with young children. I'm more than happy to jump on a call. You know, we offer a 30-minute complimentary call to everybody who just wants to know what the next step is. I mean, it could be that you don't even know what you need, but you just know you want to know more, right?
53:24 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Valerie, thank you so much for spending this time with me.
53:30 >> Absolutely.
53:32 >> Going to have to have you come back. This There was a kind of emotion in this episode that I I don't reach very often. And and I I think it will touch a lot of people. Um from that from that perspective, I really can't thank you enough for for for being my guest today.
53:50 >> Well, I appreciate you. And you know, I felt the emotion, you know, coming from you as well. That's why I, you know, felt so comfortable to to share all that.
54:00 >> Well, good. So, I'm going to have you hang on just a minute. We're going to do a quick wrap-up. So So, folks, um thank you so much for joining us today. Just real quickly, my schedule of shows Monday, like today, at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time, Trusts & Estates Weekly. Tuesday at 10:00 p.m. Pacific Time, Business Lessons from the Military, self-explanatory.
54:19 >> [snorts]
54:20 >> Uh Wednesdays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time, People Making Money. And then every other Thursday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Time, join me at Jiggers' Place. We'll have a cocktail and a schmooze, and we'll talk about all the aspects of life except for finances. It's a opportunity to be together as we head to the end of the week and kind of relax together. So, again, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. Valerie, again, thank you very, very much for being my guest. And I'm going to sign off like I always do, which is to tell you, Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage
54:57 at all times.