0:00 I'm your host Kevin bemel and we are here every Monday at 10:00 amm Pacific time that's 1M on the East Coast with an hour in for uh Central and an hour in from each side for Central and mountain time and we talk about all things related to trusts Estates probates both and estate planning both from the standpoint of uh taking care of your own matters in that regard and also um being a professional who helps people in those areas whether you're a lawyer an accountant um a financial services
0:39 professional real estate person or like me a professional fiduciary or trust company so today I'm G to talk about how to get business from a professional fiduciary so for for those of you who are um you know are are serving people in the trusts and Estates Arena or uh have a business where you think you'd you do well in that area um I think it's a you know it's it's a valid question so
1:14 um if you're a regular Watcher of the show you may have been wondering well let's see I've been watching you for a year how do I get business from you Kevin uh and uh so so we're going to you know open up the curtains here and and and tell you how how that works so um unlike other shows where I put together a PowerPoint um I didn't do that today I'm just gonna talk and share a few Thoughts with uh with you about how um you know you might work with me or you
1:49 know someone else uh in my position now um in case you haven't seen some of my earlier shows California is the only state that requires a license to be a trustee or an administrator um all the other states there are other states that require what amounts to a professional fiduciaries license but that's but there that's in cases where the fiduciary is acting as a conservator or a guardian now California requires a license in those areas as
2:25 well um but it's it's the only state that adds on top of that being a trust um and an administrator and and and by the way if if you are a relative um of the deeding so um first of all U and you're only handling that one estate you're not required to be licensed um a license is required only for doing two or more um and where um you weren't appointed for example as an executive in in a will so
3:02 having said that um okay uh got a got a a message here someone wants to promote uh promote my show um so so when I look at um the people that um I do business with or that I anticipate doing business with they say they share certain traits number one they are experts in their field okay so if you're a lawyer an
3:39 accountant a real estate agent you know your field well now that's not to say that you have to been in it necessarily a long time those two aren't equivalent okay so someone who's only been in the field for you know a couple of years years may have very very deep knowledge of the field because they've they've been very active they've studied a lot they've taken a lot of classes um and they've and and they've been involved in
4:15 a in a lot of matters or transactions so I'm not so concerned with with how long you've been in the field as I am with your experience the depth of your knowledge especially as it relates to probate and Trust matters now it's it's all good and well uh to be a a real estate agent and and to have done a lot of transactions as a real estate agent that alone however doesn't mean
4:52 that you know the probate process so the probate the the requirements for prob baes are are pretty carefully lined out and since the court has control over the sale of a property out of probate in in many if not most cases that process has to be understood from the beginning it's not something you learn along the way okay and um one of my good friends uh Bill gross who who has a a probably the most watched show
5:30 on probate matters bill is a a probate real estate agent and he learned probate real estate by going down to the the uh Courthouse in downtown Los Angeles and sitting there and watching probate matters being heard getting to know probate attorneys studying the process it took him about a year to get to the point where he could justify ably call himself the probate expert which is kind of what he goes by okay so you can see
6:06 you say wow a year that's a long time well not really I mean if you a professional and intending to you know have a career in a particular area I wouldn't say that that taking a year to really understand it really understand what it is you're going to be doing is is a particularly large time commitment especially when you consider what's at stake so the average home price Nationwide I think is around $400,000 so for most people it's their it's the their most valuable piece of
6:43 property and and so if you're going to be selling property out of probate or representing that you you you know how to sell property out of probate uh if you make a mistake that can have very um large Financial consequences for the estate for The Heirs um for the person seeking to buy the property all of all of these are the case um as well you know if if you're for for for you're a lawyer so
7:19 you know understanding the probate code and all the requirements that are involved understanding the legal process all of that is is a is a crucial component of being able to serve clients well and as a professional fiduciary okay I'm relyant on you if if let's take the case of a lawyer to make sure that the legal side is being handled properly okay while I have a a fair amount of legal knowledge I started out
7:54 my professional career as a law clerk so you know and I've worked with attorney for decades my expertise is not in the law okay my expertise is in trust and estate Administration and the fiduciary duties that go with that okay so when it comes to the intricacies of things like ex party hearings or of um you know filing various petitions okay um I'm going to be lying
8:30 on you the lawyer to handle that properly now I can go through my petition and all of that and I I'll and I I do this you know whenever I have you know a new case and and I go through it and make sure that it's you know it's reflecting properly you know what it is I'm declaring okay um but but I'm not going through it to make sure it's formatted correctly and you know and those kind of things which can vary from court to court okay so that kind of basic legal knowledge pretty much all attorneys have
9:06 but then when it comes to working with um you know the probate court itself knowing the judges uh knowing what they're looking for knowing what they really mean when they say certain things because you know judges are bound by ethical standards by standards of conduct and some times they want to say something that they can't and so they'll say what they can but there's an implication under that as to what they're really saying okay so all of
9:42 that again as a professional fiduciary I'm relying on you to have that kind of knowledge and experience okay so so and and and that's number one is is to be knowledgeable and experienced in the field to really you know to to know to be able to handle kind of your your your function with within the process okay now that quickly leads to the next thing um that that that I I look for when when deciding to
10:19 do business with someone and that is what kind of a team member are they okay um a state administ rtion is a team sport okay it absolutely is and generally speaking and I I I say this modestly I'm the quarterback to use a football metaphor okay or I'm the pitcher to use a baseball metaphor okay um let's see I'd be the what Center halfback I guess if I were if I were playing soccer um and and
10:57 so I what work to build is a collaborative team where everybody is doing and doing what they do and and putting their eyes on the process and what's happening for the benefit of the estate and of course for the benefit of the eventual heirs that's what matters that's what it is to be a fiduciary okay I'm I'm I I'm not interested in getting into sort of you know territorial fights well this is my
11:33 thing to do this is your things to do this is your thing to do um I give input to to lawyers to accountants and and I encourage them to give input on on what I'm doing as well I think the worst thing we can do in the administration of an estate is assume that you know any one individual has all the answers rarely is that the case okay so you you know if you're a trust and estate lawyer and you know a tremendous amount amount
12:08 about trust and Estates presumably okay but you may not know as much about real estate um you may know real estate conveyancing and that kind of thing but you may not have a whole lot of knowledge about property operations so for example here in California there are rent Control ordinances in many cities and if if you've if if an estate has a house um that is you know part of its property and that house was rented to a tenant okay the mere fact that the owner
12:45 of the house has died doesn't necessarily mean that the tenant can be kicked out okay yes the the deceased owners estate now becomes the the is now owned by if you will you know the estate okay but that change of ownership does not necessarily terminate the lease especially under a rent control jurisdiction okay now some rent control laws don't cover single family residences at all others do in certain
13:21 circumstances and others do in almost all circumstances okay so that can impact um how an estate is administrated and and how a property you know may be sold okay so when it when it comes to those kinds of issues now I come from a real estate background and so I'm much more aware of those kinds of issues than than um I I have a friend who's a professional fiduciary he comes from an accounting background okay so he has a more
13:58 in-depth knowledge of that part of of the professional fiduciary world and I have a more in-depth knowledge of the real estate and property side of the professional fiduciary World okay and and I call him about stuff and and he calls me about stuff um just you know to help each other out as just you know professional courtesy that kind of thing okay and and and so the so when I when I'm working on a matter whether whether I'm the team captain or not and sometimes I won't be sometimes the
14:33 lawyer is the team captain and that's fine um in order for that situation to work though the lawyer needs to respect my position as a professional fiduciary meaning that they don't have the authority to dictate to me how a particular thing is is handled okay now they can certainly advise me um about how they think it should be handled okay they can give me the legal constraints okay but as as I'm sure you're aware the
15:08 the there's there's the legal side of the matter there's the Practical side of the matter and there's the moral side of the matter and these all three need to be considered whenever we're dealing with a situation where people and emotions are involved okay and and certainly probate and Trust Administration or probate and and estate Administration is one of those areas okay there's been a loss um someone has died usually people are upset about that okay and so and and by the way not just
15:46 um The decedent Heirs okay there can be other people involved maybe Friends of the decedent maybe close friends of the deant they're all there's a lot of emotion there employees of the decedent okay and all of that needs to be taken into account now that doesn't mean that decisions are made based on emotion but what it means is the way things are done should take these emotional practical sometimes even spiritual aspects into account so that
16:23 we're not exacerbating an already fraught situation okay and and and that can be that can be tough sometimes because you know the airs are driving to get this thing done get the probate closed and and and I understand that that's perfectly legitimate okay um but at the same time getting it closed isn't the sole consideration okay because as you know the old saying act in haste repent and
16:58 leave meure right so everything's got to be done correctly especially if it's a um a a a a probate Administration where the court has oversight and even audit Authority okay so that's the second thing I'm looking for in someone that I'm working with and someone I'm considering giving business to is are they going to be a good team member are they going to be collaborative are they going to be as open to input receiving input I should say as they are to giving input are they typically you
17:36 know looking to issue orders or are they do they want to discuss things and and reach an agreement um that's that's been wherein you know all the various issues have been reviewed so that's that's number two in the thing that I'm looking for number three that I'm looking for is I want to do I want to build long-term mutually beneficial relationships and that's I think generally true of all professional
18:11 fiduciaries so it is so much easier to navigate this whole process when there are established relationships people know each other they know how they work they know their strengths and weaknesses okay and we all have them okay if you're looking at me saying well I don't have any weaknesses um I'm I'm with due respect I'm suggesting you just don't know what they are that's all I certainly have my weaknesses I do okay I
18:46 exhibited one of them on Friday okay I get super super annoyed at financial institutions that stonewall me okay whether whether it's as a customer or whether it's as a professional and I'm I'm not going to name any names although I would really like to because there's two that are they they've been on my um I don't want to use the word list for quite a while now and I can almost count on the fact that their people will be uncooperative okay and and I I I have to
19:22 really hold myself in check whenever I have to deal with these two institutions okay and and on on Friday I sort of blasted something out at the attorney for one of the matters I'm working on because of what one of them did and he's like gotcha gotcha gotcha you know he know he knows this is a weak a weak spot of mine okay um and and and you know look he has his weak spots too um and and and we work together to back each other up okay to make sure that we are doing the proper job despite our our
20:00 weaknesses okay so to to be able to work with people with whom we have established long-term relationships makes the whole process go better and it's really to the benefit of the beneficiaries of the estate okay because since we know how we work and all of that there's fewer mistakes there's less time with miscommunication and they get a more
20:35 comprehensive job a more comprehensive View and solution to potential problems because we can talk about these things more openly we're not we're not worried about protecting our turf we're focused on doing the best job we can for the people to whom we're responsible okay so um you know people you know people come to me with with kind of a one-off thing it's you know it's like well you know if if you'll do this I'll do this and you know and then kind of off we go that that's not who
21:11 I'm looking to do business with okay My Philosophy since I started my first company back in the mid 1980s is it's harder to find a good client than it is a good piece of business and so once I find a good client I want to be able to develop that relationship strengthen it and figure out new ways to help that person out and I feel the same way about the professionals that I work with so for many I work for many many years um
21:47 with a a trust and a state attorney by the name of Alan cutro I think Allen is is um uh retired now he worked for a a a big Law Firm here in Los Angeles called Mitchell silberberg Allen was just he's like he was like the the greatest lawyer to work with okay and I every time we got to work together I I loved it because although I I I was I was when I started um doing work with Allen um I I didn't have a lot of experience in in Probate and and estate matters I had some enough
22:22 to justify him working with me um but he was and and he was he even at that time he was very very experienced um we we could talk things over he was open to listening to what I had to say um if he thought I made a mistake he was you know he was candid in in in saying so um not in a harsh way he's like I I this doesn't look right or are you sure this is how it should be you know that kind of thing and and and and so um I learned a lot working with him over the years
22:58 and and still hold that that that memory as you know he's one of the people that I like I said I just loved working with him um and and that kind of relationship is golden and I think I hope it's it would be golden to you as well um because it it it makes it so much easier to to pursue our our various professions so how do you then get to the point where these three things are
23:33 going on okay well number one we talked about you know how to get your knowledge number two how do you um how do you be how do you like demonstrate you're an effective team member well be an effective team member and then it will be evident in terms of how the introductions come how how other people talk about what it's like to work with you okay and how do you create an ongoing relationship just that value building relationships over making a
24:09 oneoff you know transaction or something like that so um you know if if you're interested in doing business with me the easiest way to to is to make an initial contact through Linkedin that's that's the one social media platform that that I I really put a lot of focus on because it's it's a it's a place where people professionals can connect with each other and and and do business and and learn about each other and such um I have a group called trust and Estates experts so if if you join that group you
24:46 have a forum there to show off your expertise and by the way I I don't say show off in a negative way I mean to demonstrate to you know prove your bonafides okay I I don't think anything wrong in doing that quite to the contrary I I would encourage you to do that okay um you can also join um my friend Bill he has a Facebook group on probate matters look up Bill gross and probate group or something like that I I don't recall the name of the group off the top of my head um but it's another wonderful place to share your expertise
25:21 your willingness to help okay and and and how do you build a relationship first of all by making you know introducing yourself and then look I I advise people all the time fellow professionals that is pro bono okay if someone calls me with a question about how this works or that works I'm gonna take five 10 15 minutes to answer their question to help them help to help them help a client okay there maybe there's no immediate return Financial return to me that's okay that's okay if it's a if
25:57 we're building a long-term relationship the money will come okay what we need to be doing especially in the beginning is building that relationship okay getting to know how each other works and and that's that comes from periodic interactions okay if you want to put me on your call me you know once every three month list okay great I mean let's let's we can let's have a touch-based conversation once every three months
26:32 okay I do that with quite a number of people uh I I I I should do it with more frankly um I I run out of time often okay but it is it's my it's my goal to touch base with um people that I'm that I have relationships with one at least once every three months now some of course I speak to much more often some some people I speak to almost daily others you know not not not as often um so that's another good way to build that relationship okay and if we are in complimentary
27:07 professions okay and the the ones that are most complimentary for professional fiduciaries at least like me who do trust and estate and probate work are trust and estate lawyers and financial and and lawyers handling financial planning accountants who are doing the same thing trust and estate accountants accountants in financial planning okay Financial Services professionals who get involved in financial planning especi uh especially um you know for for trusts and Estates okay real estate people who
27:45 specialize in trust and probate matters and then there's a fifth group I call it others and there are several categories of others you could be a valuation professional an appraiser for example and you you do you you appraise property for trust estate and probate matters okay you could be someone like um my friend Hillary Cooper Hillary has a a business called uncluttered where when somebody passes away um she she goes um uh she and her
28:25 team will go into the house and they'll deal with the personal property um what's going to be done with it inventorying It Whatever has to be done okay so there's all those other people um you may be a um um a a notary public um maybe a mobile notary public okay that that's someone else that's potentially um you know we could do business together you could be a paralal a paralal who specializes perhaps in um drawing up uh living trust okay so all of those are Prof are
29:02 potential professions that that um you know we would work together on on a matter now um you know you might be involved in in something that I didn't list but you think there's a potential connection there so feel free to reach out look the worst thing that will happen is we'll decide no there's probably not a good opportunity for us to do business together so but but you know hey good to know you and and you know we're kind of on each other's radar a little bit and if if something stray comes across where we can help each
29:37 other out we certainly will okay but maybe there's a you know again you you're in a profession that I didn't mention and and yet there is a good opportunity there it's just it's just not one that that I've you know particularly focused on okay so it all starts with making that that first Contact and then getting to know each other building that relationship helping each other out helping us helping each other help our clients out and then the money will follow okay so that's how you do business with a professional
30:12 fiduciary at least one focused on on trusts and Estates and probates like me now for someone who's dealing with guardianships and conservatorship matters that's that's a little different maybe I'll talk about that in another episode uh down the road um but but for now I'm talking about the area that that I deal in um most frequently so I thank you very much for tuning in today hope you found hope you found this useful uh tomorrow at 10: a.m. Pacific time is my show business lessons from the military and I'm going
30:49 to be talking about how you can Empower your teammates so that they really feel invested in what you're doing in your business in your company okay the military has and I'm going to use an example from Naval Aviation is particularly good at this I think um and so I invite you to tune in for that and see how and and and hear how you can adapt this practice to your business in a way that really will engage even the most Junior people in your organization
31:25 and then on Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time my guest is Von Marie Thomas um I in my social media posts you'll see um she's going to talk about going from a mill spouse to a Civ spouse mil Mill spouse is a is short for military spouse and as you might have guessed Civ spouse is is short for civilian spouse and I think you will not only enjoy hearing Vanessa's story um but you will also learn a lot about how you can build your own success whether
32:01 you're someone in transition not necessarily just from the military maybe you're you're you know you're coming out of college maybe you're a mid-career professional um all of those I think you will you will learn things from Vanessa so I invite you to tune in on Wednesday and that's all I have for you that's that's it for today so thanks again for tuning in and signing off as I always do Marie darling you are my bell all the best