0:02 take three okay I finally figured out what the technical problem was so hello and welcome to business lessons from the military I'm your host Kevin bemel and we're here every Tuesday at 10: a.m. Pacific time to talk about military history uh Doctrine and the practices of great military leaders and take those lessons and apply them to our business lives so today my topic or my the the show is titled keep your feet dry so you know what's that about I mean how does
0:38 that apply to business well so if you saw the the thumbnail you saw um you know it talks about when compromise is best and I think this is a a this is a difficult uh topic to deal with because most of us don't want to compromise um we want to you know stick to our guns we want to be strong and and all of that kind of thing whether it's in a negotiation whether it's in dealing with our employees and and and the the
1:14 standards uh for you know running our companies um whether it's holding to our own our own values and ethics um the I think our our tendency is is to not compromise um and in fact in many ways the word compromise uh has has t it's become sort of like a dirty word so uh I mean especially in politics which I'm not going to talk about but but even just the uh you know we we use the term the person was compromised um as that meaning that you
1:50 know they they were put in a position that reflects badly on them um but the fact of the matter is that many things perhaps most things in business will not happen unless we compromise and that can take many forms okay and and the the fact of the matter is as much as I talk about how uh you know we need to be clear about our values as a business we need to be clear about our values as individuals the reality is is that most
2:25 most issues that we deal with in business they're not issues of right and wrong so for example if if we're considering two different approaches to a marketing campaign that's that's unlikely to be a moral issue per se unless unless we're talking about some sort of very you know vulgar advertising or something like that but but the fact of the matter is um there isn't a there there is likely not a moral issue there um and and so
3:00 compromise can be a way to come to something that that will work and that the team can broadly support right so um I want to I'm gonna relate uh what we call a SE what I call well what the Navy calls a sea story this is a a story about something that that happened um you know during my career and and and show you how um in this case my my uncompromising attitude what was was to
3:35 my detriment so one of the um most um awe inspiring things that I did during my career as a Chaplain in the Navy was I I participated in burials at Sea so if if someone was a a sailor or a marine um when when they die they can apply to I believe it's through the the Veterans Administration to have a Burial at Sea performed now I did one on um on on an
4:14 aircraft carrier um and and in that case I wasn't actively involved with it but I was I was there when it was done to observe and and and see you know sort of the protocol and all of that um and then a couple of years later when I was stationed with the submarine squadron at Point L they there was a request by a sub a Submariner uh well Submariner family really that he'd be buried at Sea from a submarine because he had spent his Navy
4:49 time on a submarine um albe it probably not a nuclear sub like like what we have today but I think he was a a World War II veteran if I recall and so um one of the submarines was given the responsibility for conducting this Burial at Sea and the captain of the boat asked me if I would come along to kind of do the chaplain's part of of of the the service so of course you know that's one of the reasons why I'm there so you know we we get underway and and
5:25 by the by the way dress on a submarine is pretty casual so normally you wear uh what amounts to um you know Co coveralls or overalls or whatever which is it's kind of this this blue you know one piece thing that zips up in the front I think it zips in the front and and and and that's and you wear your um your uh black boots and uh you know and and a and a t-shirt underneath it and that's that's pretty much it that's what you wear day in and day out on a on a submarine it's very practical um uniform
6:00 uh for working in the submarine environment uh but this is not the appropriate dress for a Burial at Sea as you might imagine and so we were directed to bring what were what are called our service dress blues now if you've ever seen a movie about the Navy that's the the uniform it's it's basically a black suit uh at least for officers you have gold braid on the sleeves indicating your rank it's a double breasted suit with brass buttons you know two rows of brass buttons and
6:36 you have your cover which is the the white cover with the black Bill and Etc um and you wear with that black Oxford shoes because that is the prescribed shoes that you wear with that uniform if you go into Navy regulations you will see it you know it says exactly what is worn like for example this is something that I I never could quite understand about the service dress blues uniform you would think if you're wearing black Oxford shoes you would wear a black leather belt with the uniform no you wear this sort of
7:12 cotton um you know black belt with a with a brass um Buckle that you slide it through and I it's it's really it's it's I don't know it just not what you would think it would be certainly that was not what they were in World War II by the way I I think the reason they did that is because it's less expensive than a than a a leather belt right so I bring my service dress blues with me in the you know the the zippered case and I bring my my black Oxford shoes and um you know it's it we we we go out
7:47 to sea and we find a relatively you know calm area the boat is you know is on the surface um now when when a submarine is on the surface if you're in the conning Tower of course you're way above the surface but if you're on the deck of the submarine there's only about this much of of free board meaning that the water is washing over the deck of the submarine on a regular basis now that deck is covered with a grill and so what happens is the water ships over the side it goes through the grill so you're not
8:22 standing in water but but water was constantly shipping through and then draining out um now I had never been on the deck of the submarine before I'd been underway before and I'd been in the conning Tower but I'd never been on the deck before and so we get out there on the deck and the first thing I realize is everyone else on the deck is in their service dress blues but they're wearing their Black Submarine or boots and I'm thinking to myself I wonder why that is and within you know a minute or two I found out why that's because water shipped over and it flooded my feet and
8:57 I now had you know wet salt feet uh throughout the the rest of the you know the the the Burial at Sea so you know um I mean look I did my part and whatever um and and you know after it was O and by the way um one of the reasons why we have to be in our service dress blue uniforms is because there's there's a videographer taking a video of the ceremony which is sent to the um relatives of the person being buried
9:32 so they can see their loved one being buried at Sea that that's in the end that's the point right because they're they're not there with us right so there's there's one of the sailors is kind of off to the side and he's with a video camera taking you know a video of all of this right so I'm standing there in my my wet shoes of course you couldn't see the wet shoes on video and in and indeed the reason the other you know my colleagues were wearing the black boot is on that video you couldn't tell the difference between my black oxford leather shoes and the black Submariner boots which are essentially
10:08 you know waterproof right um what I did succeed in doing is essentially ruining my shoes you know salt water salt water and leather not a good combination but but from my perspective right it it it you know it was wrong because the the uniform regulations required that we that that I wear my black oxford leather shoes with the uniform that's what required so no compromise you know wear these shoes and and and for my trouble I got to spend you know $110 buying a new pair of shoes now you can say oh that's
10:45 that's a little thing and you're right it is just a little thing I learned my lesson very inexpensively although I was the butt of many a joke among the submariners after that because you know I didn't know enough to keep my feet dry um so so that's that was lesson number one lesson number two which that that same that same uh Burial at Sea so um when we when we actually so there's a a canister with the ashes of
11:22 the deceased in it and those ashes get spread on the water and and before the ceremony the the captain of the boat explained to me that we we weren't going to do we weren't going to be actually um dumping the ashes of the deeded during the the ceremony from the deck and he said we're going to use flower and I said wait a minute you're going to take a video of this ceremony
11:58 that's going going to the deedon relatives but we're not actually spreading his ashes it's going to be flow and he said yes I said why he said just trust me on this it'll be a good idea right and uh and so the time comes for us to spread the ashes and we do so and a wind blows up and poof blows them back in our face now think about that for a minute what got blown in our face was flower if
12:34 it had been the actual ashes the ashes would have been blown in our face really you boy just not a pleasant thought at all and then later that day from the conning Tower we dropped the ashes in a way that they wouldn't be blown back up into our faces and that was the actual bearing of of the ashes and they kind of spread out on the deck but then we submerged and you know they were washed off the summ marine and and the burial was completed as far as the
13:11 family knew that second you know emptying of the canister didn't take place as far as they knew the original EMP emptying of the canister was the burial of their family member at sea right and you say well that's you know that's dishonest well okay maybe um but look at it this way which is better dropping the real ashes from the
13:46 deck of the boat having it blown in our faces we go take a shower and wash it down into the um drainage system of the submarine or have the ashes all actually be essentially washed into the ocean right that that's our choice now may maybe you would argue well you know people should be told that and and maybe they should but the reality is that these compromises were being made for very good reasons and and in the end nobody was
14:23 really hurt by them the fact that we that that I was the only one wearing the authorized shoes the people who saw the video couldn't have told the difference the fact that what they saw being dumped wasn't actually the ashes of their relative but in in in the end the point of the burial was for their relatives Ashes to be um uh what's the word um you know put into the sea right and and we did accomplish that we actually accomplished it better by using the compromise than we would have by not
14:58 comp compromising right so I think this this gives us the the standards if you will to help us understand when should we be compromising even when the rules are quite Bright Now by the way uniform regulations are not um you know they're they're they're not moral rules okay so when I use rules in this context I don't mean ethical principles okay what I mean is you know
15:34 rules about how things are going to be done regulations might be a would be a better I guess a better term so we we we didn't violate any ethical rules we did violate some regulations to the best of my knowledge there is no exception in the regulations for burials at Sea from the deck of a submarine but this became this was the the sort of tradition of of the way the submarine service handles these things right and so I think there's one lesson that we can take from this is is we don't violate our morals
16:11 and ethics when we don't compromise in a way that violates our morals and ethics but we can compromise in violating rules and regulations if it's appropriate when is it appropriate when doing so makes the meeting of the mission better right so you could we You could argue and this is why I use these two different examples You could argue that the The Dumping of flow was making a lie of the Burial at
16:46 Sea now you know that's that's that's kind of a you know something to discuss over bourbon I suppose but the reality was the ashes were um you know relegated to the Sea just not you know on on on the video so the video wasn't exactly true but we still fulfilled our mission of seeing to it that the ashes were put in the sea and we actually did that better by using by by compromising a bit you could even say using a small subterfuge okay we accomplished that
17:21 better than if we had been absolutely strictly you know according to hoil as my dad used to say in in how it was done so that's I think is the is the second standard is are we fulfilling the um shoot I just lost the word the um uh like like the real essence of of of what it is we seek to accomplish right so so so it's one thing to to break a a rule or
18:00 regulation but if doing so accomplishes the spirit of our mission the spirit of our task better than if we don't compromise then I think we have a basis for making that compromise okay now I think we can apply this very these two standards very broadly but we have to be careful about it okay so um for example um we want to be honest people we don't want to
18:38 lie okay but but sometimes telling someone the absolute truth is really going to hurt their feelings and damage the relation and thereby damage the relationship and so I think it's okay at times to you know not be brutally honest okay because that's what that's I I think we want to be honest but not brutally so so if you look at the talmud
19:14 which is a it's really sort of the basis of traditional Judaism it it says that at times it's okay to tell what we might call a white lie if doing so will better help better preserve a relationship and the feelings of the person right so you know the sort of classic example of this is when a a wife would ask her husband you know how do you like my dress and he thinks it's hideous right it's like what is to be
19:50 gained by saying to the woman your dress is hideous to your wife nothing nothing oh very it's very very nice very nice you look very nice okay I think that's a perfectly acceptable thing to say even if you're in our heart of hearts we really don't think it looks very good now that would that that might depend now some women maybe want to hear you know the absolute truth they really want to know you know do I look good like maybe they're they're getting dressed for an important um job meeting and and they they want to look their best they want to look professional and so you
20:27 know in that case compromising on our you know on our honesty if you will um would would may not be the best path because the second part attaining the spirit of the mission may be lost in doing so so you know if if uh you know if if a wife is going on like I said a meeting for a job and she's dressed you know I don't know in in in tennis clothes and this is a very professional job that she's going for so it probably wouldn't do to say oh you look nice that that's just right you
21:03 know you probably even if she's a sensitive person need to find a way to say you know do you think that dressing in tennis gear is appropriate for going to a meeting a at you know at this particular firm it seems like it's a very you know button-down firm very professional and that seems to me to be working at Cross purposes right so we need to take these two issues into account before we decide whether to compromise or not number one what are we
21:38 really compromising on are we compromising on our our our morals our ethics or and and and and and I I just gave an example where you know one could again make the case that well but I but you know we not lying that that is my morally lying is wrong well okay but but but also treating people um kindly and appropriately that's part of my moral code and so sometimes two moral values compete and so how do we resolve that
22:17 competition right so when when being honest could cause somebody to feel pain and maybe needlessly so then this moral rule gives way to this moral rule from my perspective okay now you may you may size that up differently but I I don't believe in brutal honesty so um I believe that you know when when the when the two compete sometimes it's okay to I wouldn't say lie outright but but to
22:52 shade the truth okay so we need to look at that and then we need to also consider will compromising help us to meet the mission better more effectively and this is particularly true in a negotiation so when we're going back and forth trying to decide make an agreement over a particular business matter what which is more important sticking to our guns or having having
23:27 the the deal happen right and in most cases coming to some kind of arrangement so the deal can go forward is probably more important than whatever sort of puant Joy will get from oh I stuck to my guns and I I won I won the deal didn't happen but I won you know kind of thing I think that's really problematic to you know to to look at that sort of zero some game as as a tool
24:02 in in our business and professional lives it's better to look at where can I make strategic compromises or tactical compromises that will allow me to meet the goal or meet the mission of of this endeavor okay maybe I'm not going to get 100% of what I want but nonetheless if I can get you know if I can get 50 % is that good enough okay in my experience when when there's a successful negotiation I think both parties think they got about 75 or 80% of what they
24:38 wanted now you say how could that possibly be well because sometimes well most of the time there are certain Mutual interests um and and typically the mutual interests seem to make up about at least 50% of of you know what's being worked out and the other 50% ends up getting split about 50/50 or maybe 2030 something like that so that's why you you know each side feels well I got about 75 or 80% of what I wanted and so you know I'm gonna I'm gonna go forward so those those are the
25:13 principles that that I I I submit to you for consideration in deciding whether to compromise in a particular business or professional situation and in relationship situations um you know as as we go through our our our daily lives and and this is this is one of those shows where I would be particularly interested to hear your thoughts on on my idea or my ideas about compromising like I said I think this is a somewhat fraught issue in in society
25:49 today and like I I have a friend he his belief is you have to be absolutely uncompromising in you know various areas of your life um by the way he doesn't apply that to his business life fortunately and and and because of that I think that's how he's been able to build success um but I'm not sure that being completely uncompromising in many especi or most areas of Our Lives is necessarily A a good policy I think we we need to be very judicious about being
26:24 uncompromising because often times com Rising is is best or is the better option so I thank you very much for joining me today uh sorry about the sort of technical glitches at the beginning uh tomorrow at 10:00 a.m Pacific time is my show people making money and it's our monthly economic Echoes where we take a look at economic data and see how will this affect our lives as individuals right because I say this you
27:01 know pretty much every time I talk about this show we don't live in the National economy we live in our own individual economy and so when we look at this data we need to figure out how is this how is this going to affect you know our lives the lives of our families and and and what do we need what what should we be doing about that so I invite you to join me tomorrow again at 10: a.m. Pacific time and then next week at uh 10: a.m uh on Monday at 10 a.m. Pacific is my show trusts and Estates weekly and one week
27:37 from today is the next edition of business lessons from the military so thanks again for joining me really appreciate it love to hear your comments good bad agree disagree especially disagree always like to hear those they they they help me you know think more about my ideas and refine them so so please do submit them all the links to social media will be uh in the show notes when this episode posts on YouTube so have a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do Marie darling
28:12 you are my bell C