0:00 who are you and where are you going what do you [Music] want hello and welcome to business lessons from the military I'm your host Kevin bemel and we're here every Tuesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about business history uh Doctrine and the practices of great military leaders also we can distill from them lessons that we
0:36 can apply to our business and professional lives so for those of you who didn't see yesterday's show you you saw um the new opening it's it's actually not new that's our opening from our the original season um our first season of The W to wow shows and I I added it in I think it's I think it's a nice little uh way to to get things started and uh would be uh Curious to hear what you think as well so um you know if you have a thought please feel free to drop it into our social media or
1:11 you can send me an an email all those links and the my email address will be in the show notes after this U episode posts so today I'm going to be talking about what is perhaps the seminal military book that is is used in a business context used in the business world and that is a book called I have it here The Art of War by sunu okay now this this you being that
1:46 it's written by a man named sunu he's Chinese it was originally written in Chinese this is a an an English uh translation of the book and I I'm going to start out by just giving you a little bit of a history of sunu and and and the the artart of War um and then talk about how it applies to to business so um sunu was a Chinese General strategist and philosopher um he was they we think he lived in What's called the Eastern Xiao period of ancient China um during What's
2:23 called the Spring and Autumn period from 770 to 476 BCE and the book itself was written you know Scholars think sometime in the fifth century BCE now the the details of suns su's life are not particularly clear at least as of when I did my research and the reason I say that is because I said something on the show yesterday about something being unclear and then an hour later um a friend of mine mentioned to me that it had been conclusively determined that uh Christopher Columbus was was Jewish so
2:58 okay well there you go so you know um hard hard to keep up sometimes um but in any event there are there are there the ideas around that that sunu was not an actual individual that he was a compilation of people this idea is you you hear it about Jesus and other prominent Figures ah you know who who who knows I mean for for for our purposes I don't I don't see any reason to you know attribute sunu to being anything other than you know the a
3:34 general who was in you know who lived during the Eastern Xiao period in China so the the the point of the book was to create a Treatise on the strategy and philosophy of of and tactics of war and so the book consists of 13 chapters and each one is focused on a different aspect of warfare and they they include things like um planning strategy using spies flexibility trrain leadership all these different aspects and um his uh Sun Sue's intention was to
4:13 emphasize the psychological side of warfare as opposed to the the combat or or the the arms fighting side of of warfare and I think that's one of the reasons why the book has endured for you know 2500 years at this point a little little bit longer than that the book was very influential in ancient China and it's it it was adopted into um Chinese uh military
4:48 philosophy um and and it actually spread throughout Asia so it it it became part of Japanese and Korean military doct as well now it wasn't discovered in the west until the 18th century so a French Jesuit named I'm gonna look at his name here so I give it to you correctly Jean Joseph Maria Amo um was the the first Westerner to translate it into presumably French in 1772
5:23 and he translated Sun su's ideas into kind of a European frame of reference if you will and it became very influential in Western military thinking especially um um by Napoleon evidently um and and over time many Western military strategists including Carl Von kltz whose book I'm going to be talking about uh later later this year um they they took a lot from
6:00 from Sun su's philosophy and and made it part of their overall philosophy as well so in more contemporary times um um especially sort of uh um in the 20 Century around World War II once again The Art of War had had another um sort of resurgence this time in in Western military thinking um and it will also gain uh popularity among um Western military leaders um and American generals especially during the
6:35 Vietnam war in the latter part of the 20th century it be it was discovered by the the Western business world and and and has become a very popular uh sort of source if you will of of business strategy and that's that's what I'm going to be talking about today is how Sun su's ideas translate into uh ways that we can look at our businesses and our professional practices um in a a a more strategic way
7:14 thinking about the tax tactics we use Etc so I have um I I think it's 10 points that I'm going to share with you um that come from Sun su's book and you'll I think what one of the things you'll one of the the good things uh I really I think perhaps the best part of of taking a business strategy from Sun Su is it's very comprehensive so for those of you who may be regular Watchers of the show some of the themes that we that I'm going to talk about
7:50 you'll see i' I've developed from other um sources other military thinkers um various battles that have been fought drawing lessons from those here with sunu he he gives a a pretty complete compendium of ideas that are that are very useful as we think about our businesses and how we want to build them how we want to set set them up for Success so excuse me the first one is strategic planning and preparation and sunu says
8:25 in his book every battle is won before it is fought now if you've seen any of my shows on real estate investing um particularly on my show people making money um you've heard me say that you make money on real estate when you buy it not when you sell it and it's it it seems counterintuitive because you're spending money to buy a a piece of real estate but the reality is how how you buy
9:00 it will largely determine whether you've got a profitable investment because real estate needs to be bought with a plan and and with once that plan is executed that should derive or even lock in the profitability of that real estate investment that's why among successful Real Estate Investors you will hear this adage gosh pretty much universally I think that you you make money on real estate when you buy
9:35 it so to a large extent the same is true in in business although we're not I'm not talking about buying and selling businesses now I'm talking about running a business or running a professional practice so if we're going to be successful we're we're actually going to win the battle win that success before we go and execute and the reason why we I say that's the case or really not me but Sun Su says it's the case is because success comes from careful planning and
10:10 preparation so it's a it's a popular idea um especially in in in the tech industry I'm told my my friend Michael who's a data scientist talks about talks to me about this on a um pretty pretty regular basis this idea move fast break things you know figure stuff out right so while there is some Merit to that idea uh and and and we're I'm broadcasting this just two days after spacex's successful launch and recovery
10:46 of its um I think it's called the big booster rocket or something like that where they C caught it in this this sort of you know Chopsticks this this you know 20 story high massively heavy booster was caught so it could be used again the the reality is when you think about how successful it was that didn't happen by moving fast and breaking stuff there was obviously a tremendous amount of thought a tremendous amount of planning and figuring out how best to do
11:21 this now by the way there was no it was no sure thing that this contraption that and there's a a name for it that I I don't recall but but this contraption for catching the booster there was no guarantee that it was going to work but compared to other strategies that they might have tried such as Landing the booster upright the way we see in cartoons that was they were they were very sure that was not going to work because it was so tall and heavy it would inevitably fall over after it
11:57 landed on the ground and and and that and then get damaged and probably too much to be able to send it up again so there was obviously St uh strategizing planning figuring all this out now in the end and and by the way um every battle is won before it is fought doesn't mean that every battle is won okay so those aren't those aren't the same things what sunsu is saying is good planning uh careful preparation is what's going to
12:34 lead to success however sometimes you just aren't G no matter how well you plan and how well you prepare you're not going to be successful by the way it may be that the enemy has planned better and prepared better than you have or despite your planning and preparation you've you've you've put in a fatal flaw into your strategy and so therefore you're you know you're not successful nonetheless planning and preparation are crucial if we're going to be successful
13:10 in business just like if we're going to be successful in battle okay second is know your competition and market so if you know the if you know the enemy and you know yourself okay you need not fear the result of a hundred battles that's another aphorism of of sunu and and the idea is we want we want to understand the marketplace we want to understand what are the competitive advantages that we have that our competitors have what are
13:45 the competitive disadvantage that we have versus our competitors so I'll I'll give you an example of of what I mean so when I had my previous real estate company uh one of the services I provide was real estate property management and it was it was at the at a time when property management companies were merging at a pretty rapid pace and the the days of small companies like mine um being able to ex expand and grow
14:21 organically it it it just it really wasn't it really wasn't happening um the because of what was going on overall in the market owners were not uh owners were in many cases taking their management back because um T times were difficult and and so I I I thought that well with you know the business climate being difficult and um that that people who owned real estate but it wasn't their primary business would be more
14:56 interested in hiring a a property management company because they needed to F focus on their primary business now I was I was relatively new to the real estate business at that time and that was that was a misread of the market by me what I probably should have done not not probably what I should have done is looked at past um recessions and seeing what had happened with management companies then and then and perhaps then would have realized no
15:31 what happens is despite needing to focus attention on their primary businesses Property Owners still end up taking the management back in order to save the money and they just work much longer hours and so the way management companies grow is by merging gaining economies of scale reducing the cost per the the yeah the cost per unit to manage um the portfolio that they manage Etc so this is why we need to know the competition and and know the market but
16:07 but really look into it as deeply as possible and not just the the current market but past markets uh past past times in the market that may give us thoughts and insight into how things are going to be happening now and into the near future next number three is adaptability so sunu says in the midst of chaos there is also opportunity now this is something I've spoken about before right when things are going crazy and people
16:42 are having a hard time catching up keeping track of what's going on there there very likely may be the chance for us to insert ourselves somewhere where we couldn't have gotten in before and take advantage of their dis array now in order to do that we need two things well we need three things we need the pro we need the strategic planning and preparation so we can be ready to take advantage of an opportunity quickly second we need to have very deep and
17:17 Broad market knowledge of our our own capabilities as well as our competitors and then we have to be adaptable so we have to be able to turn on a dime as they say in order to take advantage of of that opportunity that comes from perhaps our competitors or the marketplace being in chaos now it's very easy to describe it's not so easy to pull off of course and so part of what what I think um allows us to be adaptable is that we are
17:53 consistently engaged in the market and when I say consistently engaged what I mean is we're not just taking care of our work taking care of our clients we're also on a consistent basis engaged with looking at the market looking what's at what's happening at in the economy look you know reaching out to other new potential sources of business new potential clients and having conversations going to conferences on a
18:28 regular basis and and that allows us to take to to to when we need to be adaptable to to have to stand the best chance of success if we make that pivot in order to try and take advantage quickly of an opening caused by chaos in the market okay so by the way these strategies they're not they're really not Standalone strategies in the sense of well as long as I plan and prepare I'm good to go no Suns
19:03 su's philosophy is is a philosophy that integrates all of these different ideas into an overall view of how War should be fought or in our case how business should be pursued okay next efficiency in resource allocation so the wise Warrior avoids the battle and what what what sunsu means by that is don't fight if you don't need to okay so um I I don't I don't know if you're
19:40 fans of of the the TV show from the 1970s mash the the brilliant show um that um was with Alan Alda and um oh gosh um I'm going up on the names of the other the other act and actresses who were in it but it it was based on the movie but the the TV show is is very different from the movie especially as it developed over the years so there's an episode where a Marine Corp I think it was a Marine Corps Colonel um he
20:15 decides he he's always you know fighting basically he's always sending his troops out his Marines out to to fight and as a result he has a tremendously high percentage of casualties in his unit and and this you know in the context of the show this goes on you know day after day week after week month after month and and and the alen Alder character Hawkeye gets very frustrated with this um and by the way I'm I'm not suggesting this is historically accurate I'm just using
20:51 this as an example from the TV show because it's so vivid and one day the colonel comes to the MH unit to visit his Marines who are uh injured and they're in the the posttop uh you know recovering and Hawkeye decides he has to do something to stop this Colonel's um in in incessant need to engage in battle and so he um he decides that if he can operate
21:27 on him um that he'll be laid up for a period of time and because of that he'll be taken out from of command of his unit and and and then someone else will get command of the unit and who who is from Hawkeye's perspective more more sensible and so he gives him something to drink well he gives him a martini as such as they were made um and he puts something in it that gives him a very it gives the colonel a very severe stomach ache and and um and then when the colonel starts
22:03 you know complaining that he's you know he's got this terrible pain Hawkeye tells him that um he has an appendicitis and they better operate immediately and the colonel says but if you operate I I'll lose my command he says well you know it's it's it's better than having a burst appendix basically Hawkeye's friend BJ says to him you you know you can't do this so they're prepping the colonel for for surgery and BJ goes to to Hawkeye and he says you cannot operate on a man who doesn't need to have an operation that is against
22:39 everything that we stand for as doctors and it pro it poses an interesting moral dilemma of course but the the point of the example is that there are commanders out there there are business people out there who they want to engage in essentially Conflict for the sake of the conflict in fact I'm I'm dealing with a situation like that right now a couple of them actually um the the the parties just seem to thrive on conflict even
23:14 though in the end it's it's a huge waste of resources and it's a waste of time it's a lot of anxiety it's a lot of stress um but but but that's evidently what you know these parties want so what what sunsu is saying is rather than Friv frivolously engage in battle or Friv frivolously engage in conflict in business in our in our context allocate your resources carefully wisely avoid battle where you can so the Strategic
23:51 compromise that may come through you know diplomacy um may be better better um for the long-term well-being of of your your country and and your military forces right so all of these things need to be looked at um and and by the way sometimes we may be pursuing a particular strategy and we end up sort of bumping our head against a brick wall we need to be also be strategic about understanding when we've gotten to a point where continuing to
24:27 pour resources into this strategy is a mistake and and just withdrawal um you know pull back from the market cut our costs um and and and maybe look you know rest strategize come up with a different plan you know prepare for that and maybe take off in a different direction so we we want to use resources are not unlimited especially here in the United States I think we have this rather strange idea that that that resources are unlimited they they never are not
25:02 even for the US government okay so we need we need to husband our resources allocate them carefully okay next leadership and management and by the way these of course are not the same thing to lead is is to um is to show our our team our our group where we want to go why we want to go there why it's important to get there Etc management is the function of taking care of more of the sort of data day um Logistics and
25:38 and that sort of thing that will take us where the leader is leading us okay so um Sun su's philosophy which I think has been widely adopted in business these days is a leader leads by example not by force now of course in a military setting there are times when you know soldiers Sailors Marines whatever can be ordered to go forward even if they really don't want to um but setting that aside in the military today
26:14 you see very little leadership by coercion and and the same is true in business in business even more so we really to to try and coerce our our people we are almost for sure going to dramatic reduce the their productivity we're going to raise the the probability that we will not be successful and so what we need to do is we need to lead by example we need to uh Inspire our people if we can but mostly I think we need to
26:50 explain to them why where it's important to get where we're going and get their Buy in and and get their buyin as early as possible okay now that doesn't mean if we have an organization with you know 10,000 employees that we need to get the Buy in of all 10,000 but we we probably do need to get the buyin of not just our our senior leadership team but even our mid leadership team and and and and Stage that as part of our planning and PR and preparation so that you know everyone in
27:28 in in a leadership or management position can articulate why we're we're in we're going where we're intending to go okay and along with this and this is something you see done particularly well in the Marine Corps information and ideas needs to be not only traveling down the so-called chain of command it needs to travel back up so that leaders get the information that they need in order to make adjustments in in as close to real time as possible and this is another reason
28:03 why leading by force can be very negative because it can cut off the information and ideas that may be coming up from the Frontline truths okay so if they're being forced to do something they're much Le they're they're being essentially told we're not interested in in you or your welfare or your ideas or your thoughts and so they're going to be far more Rel reant to to share them okay so we want to keep an an an atmosphere of of open communication so it's going up and down in in a sort of a back and
28:39 forth feedback loop in order to be as uh efficient as possible okay next is we want to take um decisive action so uh Suns su's philosophy is opportunities multiply as they are seized so you if you if you think about the previous five Concepts they all lead us to a point where we can take decisive action and this is important not just from a leadership standpoint wishy-washy
29:14 leaders people they're uncomfortable following them especially if what they need to do is difficult so most people respond to decisiveness but the other reason decisive is so important is it it gives people the confidence that everything that's been that's come before it now can be used in a way that can really help every help the organization help all the team members gain ground okay and and that's
29:50 that's what's so important about decisive action so to take kind of halfhazard action it it doesn't have a feeling of commitment it doesn't give people a sense that we really need to give this our all also the reason it's important to take decisive action is if we have to for perhaps for the sake of efficient use of resources change our plan we need to do that decisively as well so while we may we want that that feedback loop going you
30:26 know up and down the chain of command we want that going on all the time so we can be again as close to in real time as possible evaluating our progress okay and we want to be getting input from people at all levels if we're going to make a change again we want to make that change decisive so that people have a sense that that you know there is a strategy it it will it can be successful and and and that's why we're having this change in Direction okay so when we take
31:02 action we want it to be decisive and we want to step forward smartly as as we sometimes say in the military next is we want to build alliances so in most cases we are not going to be able to do everything even if you're a so-called solopreneur right where where you're the only person in your business you're going to do the marketing you're going to the exec ution you're going to do the bookkeeping all that stuff nonetheless it's it's extremely unlikely that any one person is going to
31:39 be competent enough in all of those areas that they're going to be able to keep up with them better to team up with other people even if they're not employees in your organization who can provide you with expert expertise so that you can focus on what you do best so perhaps you're you're best at uh execution okay and you're not you're you're decent at marketing um and
32:15 and you know you really stink at bookkeeping and those those kinds of administrative activities right well so the sensible thing to do perhaps would be to partner with someone who they understand the business that you're in but what they're really good at is marketing because now you're supporting each other right the the person who's who's you know brilliant at marketing can bring in the business and you who are brilliant in execution can perform that business and you both need each other okay and then you can perhaps Farm
32:50 out the administrate of work maybe you know get a um um you know a bookkeeper um on a on a independent contractor basis you know to handle the important admin uh that at least that important administrative Duty okay so think about building alliances now I I did that in the context of a a very small business even for medium and large siiz companies oftentimes alliances are the best way to go look you see this all the time when for example a company will hire a
33:26 celebrity or a particular sports Personality and and and they will that person will promote the company's products or they will develop a line of products based on that so um perhaps the best known is Air Jordans right by Nike um Michael Jordan I guess he's not considered the greatest basketball player of all time anymore he's been surpassed but when I was you know um young much younger and and Michael Jordan was playing basketball um I think he at the time he was considered the greatest basketball
34:01 player um in in the world and Nike made this partnership with with Michael Jordan and they brought out these shoes Air Jordan right and both Nike and and Michael Jordan benefited tremendously from that Alliance and and I I I just I know that was just one I picked out of out of you know my memory um but these kinds of Alli it doesn't have to be a huge big Alliance like that we as as small business people or as professional practitioners we can make alliances as well right I have several
34:38 alliances with people who are in the uh trusts and probate and estate planning realm um and and and we help each other out with things like marketing with answering questions uh all those kinds of things so those alliances are typically the best way to go because they extend our influence and they provide support for what we're doing um W without necessarily having to expand additional resources Beyond perhaps some
35:13 of our time okay next we want when we're especially when we're in the uh planning and preparation stages we want to consider deception as a as a competitive advantage and so uh again one of sunsu aphorisms is all Warfare is based on uh deception and uh you know to be honest with you I'm not sure that's exactly true uh but I think the I the idea is that number one we want to keep our
35:51 plans secret right we don't want to be spreading them out because all we do by by letting our competitors know what we're doing is give them more time to prepare to counteract our strategy or change their own in order to try and and either keep ahead of us or or get ahead of us right so we you know we want to be careful about our internal deliberations we don't want to tip our hands and we may even want to engage in in some um you know deception in the sense that we
36:27 might put out some trial you know raise some trial balloons that may indicate we're considering one particular strategy even though we're actually considering another strategy nothing nothing wrong with with with that um in in the business world today so to the extent that we can mislead our competitors um about our intentions um we can create uncertainty in the marketplace and and that that may itself create some chaos right that we now can take advantage of and try and
37:04 sort of you know slip through a crack in our in the competition and emerge uh you know stronger and more successful than we were before now next is we want to sustain momentum so um sunsu says move Swift as the wind and closely formed as the w would attack like the fire and be still as the mountain so it's an interesting interesting idea in business is we we want to always be
37:42 thinking about moving forward however we need to think about sustained motion more in the line of a marathon as opposed to for example wind Sprints right so wind Sprints allow us you know it we Sprint really fast for for a short period of time a huge burst of speed um but then we have to rest for a while now the problem with the windsprint uh metaphor if you will is we may run out of energy right at the time
38:19 that there is some sort of tactical steps that we can take um um for uh for um you know taking advantage of some kind of situation that allows us to jump ahead of our um of our um of our competitors so um so we want to have a sense of sustaining momentum okay so that we always can be taking advantage of what's going on in the market even as we conserve some
38:54 energy so that if we need to take some quick decisive action we can and that's a difficult thing to to to balance so I I have a a question here from from a viewer um he's asking what's my service history so just briefly I was in the United States Navy for uh 16 years um I served U as as a Chaplain with uh the Marine Corps and the United States Navy I worked also with uh the Army and the Air Force at various times um and and prior to being in the Navy I was in my
39:31 own business for for 20 years and prior to that I worked for for other people so that's where the marrying of of business and and uh military lessons comes but but but thank thanks very much for your question um so so again we want to we want to have as sustained momentum as we can and when you look at for example um General George Patton right that was that was what he sought to do he he wanted to keep the momentum keep the pressure on the enemy all the time and
40:06 be ready for that moment when he could burst through and and and have a breakthrough right as opposed to uh field Marshall Montgomery who was was more of kind of a setpiece um Commander you know he wanted to plan plan his battle execute his battle sort of consolidate maybe even withdraw a little bit and then plan the next one right and that was very much how uh World War I was fought which you know was where he learned it EV you know most likely um
40:41 but but Patton came from a a different philosophy and indeed it was why he was such a successful Commander um during World War II he was able to sustain that momentum and not just by the way you know among his his soldiers but his logistical forces um his intelligence forces everything was geared towards sustaining momentum finally we want to exploit weaknesses okay and and this is this is you can see all these other points are leading up
41:19 to we we want to be in a position where um where as again in Sun su's words attack him where he is unprepared app appear where you are not expected okay and and again General Patton is is you know the quintal example of this by continually moving forward with sustained momentum always pressing on the enemy probing here probing there what he was doing was looking for that point of weakness that
41:55 he could then exploit and drive through and gain you know even an even more decisive victory at at that point right and we want to do the same thing with our competitors this is why sustained momentum is so important because by keeping pressure on our competitors and making them have to act in essence according to our timeline we raise the possibility that they will make a mistake right because they having to react and respond as opposed to set
42:32 their own Tempo set their own uh their own criteria work according to their own plan okay so I'm I'm trying to think of a business example of oh um okay so i' i' I've talked about this example before um but if you recall some of you may you know honestly be too young when new Coke came out okay um a absolute disaster this was an this was a a ploy not a ploy that that that diminishes it it was it was a um um an idea by the Coca-Cola Company
43:08 to try and take on Pepsi more directly by shifting their formula to taste more like Pepsi which to my palette is a sweeter a sweeter beverage than Coca-Cola is well the problem with that is Coke drinkers liked how Co Coke tasted and so they rejected New Coke pretty much on mass right so a couple things happened one is Pepsi saw the the debacle of New Coke and and they exploited that weakness um in in in
43:43 order to expand their market share now when Pepsi did that coch realized theyd made a huge mistake and they immediately had to pull back and but you could if for anyone who was watching the co Wars at that time you could almost literally see the momentum shifting so Coca-Cola was thinking we're going to grab the momentum with new Coke oops rejected by the market Pepsi grabs the initiative and and pushes forward and and Coke needed to do something to stop Pepsi's momentum and so they they came up with
44:20 this plan of oops we we goofed they you know they they and they brought out classic Coke right we're bringing back what you really want under this new name and of course eventually New Coke went away and we came back just to have Coca-Cola so you you can see in the in the Cola Wars really the the the principles that sun Sue is is is talking about you can see them acted out um and and there are there are books on that by the way I would I would encourage you to you know to take a look at those books they're they're quite interesting so those those
44:57 are the principles of of The Art of War um by by sunsu now this this um um short you know summary of them is is not a substitute for reading Sun su's book the book is brilliant and you will gain far more from reading the book than than you've gotten just from this you know short 40 or so minute presentation so I do encourage you to to read the book I will put as I as I often do when I as I always do when I talk about a
45:32 book I will put a link to the book in the show notes it is you know an affiliate link so if you click through it I think I get three cents if you buy a book or something like that um but I I encourage you to to read The Art of War and but and but to read the original Art of War not one of them that's where somebody has interpreted it into business principles those are fine okay but read this first because put the source material you know into your mind so that you have the best chance of
46:08 applying it to to your business your practice okay and then you know it's it's always useful to see how you know to read about how other people think it should be applied nothing wrong with that I'm not saying don't ever read those books I just encourage you to read the original book first get those principles kind of embedded in your strategic thinking your planning how you put together the tactics for your business Etc um before you start looking at how other people think you should do it so that's our show for today uh thank
46:45 you very much for joining me uh especially uh grease fire games for for your question I'm glad to have you uh uh watching the show today tomorrow at 10 am Pacific time is my show people making money and we're going to be doing our monthly economic Echoes looking at the economic data and figuring out how does it affect us as individuals us our family you and you know none of us experience I this is the example I always use none of us experience inflation the way it's reported you know
47:22 the um Consumer Price went up index went up I think it was 2.4% okay well that's fine um but unless you happen to have bought the exact copy of the basket of goods and services on which that particular CPI is is developed it you know you didn't expect you didn't experience inflation that way so so please to um do join us do join me tomorrow 10: am. Pacific time for economic Echoes on people making money and then next week on Monday at 10:00
47:57 a.m. is my show trusts and Estates weekly and um and then uh two you know a week from today um is the next edition of business lessons from the military so uh I I thank you again very much for for joining me wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do Marie You Are My Bell courage at all times my friends