0:07 Who are you and where [music] are you going? What do you want?
0:35 >> [laughter]
0:36 >> Hello and welcome to people making money on this challenging technology day. [laughter] Don't know why the system was doing that, but uh my guest Hannah and I have been sorely challenged. [laughter] But anyway, thank you for joining us. Um, this is my show, People Making Money, and I'm your host, Kevin Bemel, and uh, I'm here every Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about job hunting and being an employee,
1:11 starting and running a business, and building wealth. And so, my guest today is Hannah Bear. She is the CEO and co-founder of Heartnomics, as you can see by her little title caption there. And um Hannah and I, we we met rather recently. Um but she has a a a really interesting take on how to approach uh leadership. This is something a space in which she's been involved for for some time now. And so I'm I'm very happy, Hannah, to have you on the show. Um and
1:48 and and I particularly appreciate your your indulgence on some of the technical difficulties. So, welcome to people making money.
1:56 >> Oh my goodness. Thank you, Kevin. And no problem at all. It's like the new reality. If it's not you, it's me or it's everyone else. So, [laughter] thank you. This is part of our process and inputs, I think. But, uh no, thank you so much. Yes, sometime doing leadership of getting to serve leaders about 30 years. I know I don't look like it. It's I started in my mom's womb. Uh but yeah, it's been a it's been an awesome journey. Actually, it wasn't something that I went in and like I'm gonna do leadership. It was more out of the survival and desperation coming out from a b long battle with heart disease
2:31 and later on in life going through some of the very similar symptoms as an entrepreneur mom leader and realizing I don't have heart disease anymore but it brought me back to not only how I survived such a critical time but really the methodology that I see many leaders that are not only successful but have that sustainab ability and legacy throughout the world that I've been able to learn from and be in the room with. So, I'm here to help those leaders that don't just want to do the thing, but want to do the right thing and do it right. So, they do it with purpose,
3:07 love, and have the processes and systems. And I believe the way to make both work is by upleveling your leadership.
3:15 >> Well, and and and that really fits in especially with the broader theme of the show as we talked about when we met last time. So people can see over my shoulder the three pillars of attainment. This is really all about understanding our purpose and mission in life. if if you would start out you you you alluded a little bit to to your background, but share with with the audience if you would um at least a little bit about who you are um so they can get to know you and and and understand how you you know came to be working in in in this this
3:51 space of of of helping leaders lead with purpose.
3:55 >> Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a leadership strategist and what that means is I help to align your operating system for really the not only be human centric but also that it has the right tools and resources for your people. How did I get there? um through a lot of pain through learning and failures again as an entrepreneur got to have some great lessons from the field uh where I became a black belt in six sigma which is for those of you that may be familiar with is a continuous improvement uh methodology where we get to the 99.999% accuracy and in doing the processes and
4:30 systems I realized that only focusing on that meant also breaking the very heart of my company which is where I got more into the human behavior behavior so that I not only could keep and attract great talent but really do great things together with my team. So I became a not only a trainer in human behavior specializing in communication but also I continued to move forward and serve in my community. I was 100% believe that. So I've actually gotten to serve in quite a few boards. I chaired a few uh at the national level, local level and
5:06 from before that I was in like I said in a hospital really surviving fighting for my life and got to be the recipient of an innovative surgery which is really where a lot of my passion comes from. Uh because I've seen this work. It's not just a theory that I have like hey love and excellence we work together for transformation but I've actually carried the scars of innovation in me and I've also seen what working with amazing people and having the systems and processes to be able to catch and learn our failures really do lead to innovative ideas that not only solve our
5:42 own businesses our own profit like you said making money but really are a solution to what the world is asking for. So, you touched on another theme that that's kind of goes throughout my shows.
5:57 >> Uh, and and that is that we really want to be striving for growth.
6:05 >> Um, and but often times, and perhaps even most of the time, what impels us to that growth is not particularly pleasant.
6:15 >> No. Right. And and I'm I'm I I I'd love to hear your thoughts on on that idea because I think we we naturally strive to be comfortable, to feel secure, and yet often times that's it seems like that's the exact opposite of what we need in order to become more resilient people, in order to grow professionally, etc.
6:44 >> Yeah. So there's a couple of things, right? I mean like like just in growth, right? There's the decision I'm going to grow because there's a goal that I want to achieve. So there might be like strategy, you know, for goal. We're going to get this. But then there's the other opportunity for growth. Perhaps I want to go for an opportunity came and now I realize, oh my goodness, I want to go after that, but in order for me to go after that, it's going to take XYZ. And then there's this other one this other opportunity for that growth and that is with crisis because crisis also is going to demand that growth to be able to navigate it. So and that is a part where
7:20 is a lot of times is from the external is not even something that we went after. Who wants to go after a crisis? We don't the opportunity in essence it kind of creates a crisis because now you have to get resources for those businesses. you got to get, you know, you might have to get working capital, loans, the talent, technology, you know, to be able to go after an opportunity that I really want. Um, so that in itself could be a crisis, but in a sense, it's a one that we picked. The ones that we don't like are the ones that suddenly happened to us. In my case, it was something that happened. It was an internal crisis as with health,
7:56 right? There's a heart disease that was going on. And what did this crisis mean for me? Well, it didn't just impact my heart, but when my heart wasn't well, what else wasn't well? Well, I wasn't breathing well. Uh, my muscles weren't moving. My the rest of my body wasn't responding. I couldn't think clearly because of my when anybody who's tried to make a decision when you're running on a treadmill, you can't because you're focusing on running. So, that's how it felt like. So, essentially like almost my my ability to decide was very much compromised at the same time. But the problem was my heart. So what what does
8:32 this mean to me in the crisis? For for that I had to learn to stabilize the things that I could control. I couldn't control my heart. There was no cure for my heart to be well, but I could control my breathing that could help me go through that moment. So in in looking at that and looking at crisis and looking at growth becoming sometimes better on the adjacent thing can help you not only uh maintain sustain really stay alive and afloat but also realizing the implications. So that growth did demand eventually not because of something I
9:08 did but because of an innovative surgery there was a opportunity to be able to then go on and and go beyond just breathing and beyond my heart beating to actually go to school, go to college, go lead a company. So there were other things that that came about but had I not gotten the basics to be able to survive in that moment those things would never happen. So in the critical moments, those are not fun. There's nothing there that I wanted for me. What did it feel like as a kid? I started at the age of four. It felt like somebody putting my head underwater without me
9:44 knowing when I was going to be able to come up for breath. And that was me as a 5year-old, sevenyear-old, 10 year old going through two heart attacks um as a teenager growing up living literally in the hospital beds. um not being able to do the things that I wanted to do yet being very curious like any kid curious about my world. However, having to experience a world from a hospital bed and that was a lot my reality for years and not even knowing what was going to come. I there was no way to forecast is my heart going to be okay, is it not
10:19 going to be okay? So uncertainty was very much a part and I would say that that's really like later on fast forward as a business owner as a mom you're just living life it is that uncertainty that really causes for like what I call the organizational tachicardia where we're consistently doing fire after fire after fire after fire but also which is what my heart was going through but also the other part that my heart was going through was what is called arhythmia and arhythmia is when you're not in rhythm and that's what I was feeling too where
10:54 I was in in rhythm as a leader with the demands the external demands of the market with what my team was needing and even internally the silos that were there were all these different rhythms happening in an organization making us go through really organizational arhythmia. So a crisis what did it do? It brought those things up to the front. And if you realize this with stress tests, there were a lot of things. For example, my things got diagnosed at the beginning like a lung problem. They thought I had problems breathing. I
11:29 didn't have problems with my lungs. I had problems with my heart. But it wasn't until I collapsed and they started looking at the heart that they could see it impacted my lungs. Same way with a crisis. a crisis or even a stress test if you want to call it like that is is putting things like you know is adding is with that pressure will bring things up to the front that it wasn't like it's a new thing it's just they we've been able to cope with it or underlying with it that when the times for crisis suddenly they're amplified and that's really what we don't like when we're not able to cope or you know
12:04 manage it not that we in a sense we started to we can no longer tolerate Um and that's where it gets the dysfunction comes even more. So um I come to see that it's not that oh that didn't happen the crisis brought up this problems. No the crisis revealed this internal problems that were there so that now it's an opportunity with leadership to be able to get to the root and make the changes necessary so that we can adapt to the what the crisis is demanding.
12:37 >> Right. So having you know come out of this and or having gone through this experience at a very young age
12:47 >> much younger than people typically experience you know that that kind of dire circumstance. Right. So um I I can certainly imagine how it would impact just the way you look at life.
13:02 >> Yeah. on the other hand um you know younger people oftentimes don't have the tools to process these experiences. So, how did you make that connection from, you know, childhood, adolescent, teenage health crisis to adult adulthood and and um the impact it had on your the goals that you set for yourself or the or or the the plan,
13:38 forget the goals, the plans that you that you made for yourself as an adult. How did you how did you bridge that come from one to the other?
13:47 >> I think in both sense I would say community. One of my my initial community was my grandmother. There was no way I could get through um these dire survival really moments by myself as a kid. It's just plain scary. And had it not been for my grandma who would essentially coach me to breathe. I mean, she's not even knowing. Like, remind me of what to focus on at a time of crisis. My mom who advocated for me, my dad who kept the family afloat, the medical personnel that was looking for that cure, it really to in order for me to be
14:24 able to get through this crisis, it took a group of people to be able to because I couldn't do it. There was nothing I could do. I was the kid. I was like there I was I could not I couldn't breathe myself into a cure. [laughter] So it was depending on these people but it's a community that came along with that and so many more stories along that part that really kept me alive. But you fast forward to an organization as I'm going through this same thing happened. I had to rely on the community getting the feedback from my employees. I had to get into the inner circles get into the room with other CEOs that had gone through the same thing. Understanding
14:59 that what was happening to us it wasn't just happening to us. It was an industry going through a shift. It was market disruption. It was getting into conferences. It was getting into a room and really getting into a place where I did have coaches. I that's when I found the value of coaching because just like my grandma was a coaching and breathing, I had to have a coaching and getting to that um the the continuous improvement. I didn't know how to do it. If I knew how to do it, I would have done it by then. Obviously, I needed something different. So I I think if anything the transition was that I learned at a young
15:34 age that I couldn't come up with my own cure. I needed to depend on other people. And when I went through that as an adult, I went back to basics. I realized I knew the power of community. And that's where I went. I went into my sector. I went into the industry. I asked questions. I went to leaders that were accomplishing things that I would that I desire to accomplish. The same way as a kid I started feeding my curiosity in that sense in a time of trouble and also understanding I had to breathe [laughter] and if I needed to breathe my organization had to breathe.
16:10 So I had to get good at that. I had to learn how can I help my people have a wristbite moment because we didn't have the answers. We didn't know where we're going to go. When when the market is getting disrupted, when you have technology things changing faster than what you can change yourself, clients asking for things that you don't quite yet have and you know that they can't quite yet have either because at the time they didn't have the broadband to fulfill the things that they needed. But you still have to be responsive and you still have to provide even to your clients both internally and externally. They have to feel heard and they also
16:45 have to know that you're working on a solution that's going to help us all.
16:48 >> Yeah. So when what you said um a moment ago you um one of the things you did is you went to other leaders in your industry and talked to them. I I think for a lot of people doing doing something like that would is very daunting.
17:05 >> Yes.
17:06 >> So how you know how did you you know screw up your courage if you will? um how did you make those connections? How did you I don't know convince them to speak with you, right? Uh for for most of us, I think again that I that just like the idea of doing something like that it you know I I I can't do that. But I I think it's important for us to learn how to do those kind of things and realize that we can do them.
17:38 >> So there's a couple of things, right? as a business owner, if you don't pay your people, you go to jail. [laughter] So, one thing is getting the, you know, just even the fear like I need to make sure I can cover payroll, you know, how am I going to cover payroll? And I started asking questions, right? So, I went even, for example, I went to the SBA where I was able to learn about the the financial part, the capital, you know, getting the working capital, even understanding what working capital was. It wasn't that having any sales, we just needed working capital to work right now. So I'm understanding that but yes people can't help you the same way a doctor cannot help you unless you give
18:14 them the symptoms and that is where the leadership has to come in. Um vulnerability for a leader is key in that. Um again this is where for it takes courage to be able to go in and say hey I need help. Absolutely it it you but what's the alternative? The alternative is continuing to do the same thing and wait for things to shut down, which they were definitely in in there. Or the alternative is get get out of your way and go get some answers at places where you know for me actually
18:50 the moment came the shift because there were things I knew I needed to do. There wasn't anything. It was not I'm I'm sure nobody listening here is news flash that you need to get some help and you need to get some answers for things that you don't know. We all know to do that. But what really shifted my mind was after I had had to let go of over 60% of our workforce in a layoff and completely distressed the disheartened not really seeing I felt like a sitting duck waiting for the inevitable. I remember taking a walk to the very room where
19:27 most of our employees have been let go of and seeing a particular employee extremely engaged in his work. And when he caught a glimpse of me, he was so excited to come run at me and and just tell me what happened. And he's like, "Let me tell you um that you know, he said like my my son showed me the books that we had." And then this book, he said that he was proud of me and he told me, "Miss Hannah, do you understand that this is the first time that I felt proud of the work I did, that the work that I
20:03 do in this country, the work that I do, that we're a part of that?" And I wanted to say thank you. And then at that moment I realized that I was the one that supposedly was in the decision making role, right? I mean, I'm the leader. I'm the one who had the ability to do that. Yet, this is someone with no really decision-m authority being so much more engaged and hopeful in what the organization could still bring to the marketplace. And I realized at that moment that I needed to get that that what he had was the key that I
20:39 needed to be able to do what I needed to get done out there and that was hope. So I had to get my cup filled with hope. And hope is not passive. Hope is going to help you find a way where there is no way. Hope is going to make you find a solution where you don't see solution. And hope is going to take once you see that it's going to take courage. So I would say that to people, go get some hope. You got to find hope. If you're not looking for solutions in that area, many times is because you've lost hope in that area. And that's where you got to be real for yourself. It's not going to come from somewhere else. It's got to come from inside. Uh and as a leader,
21:16 it's something that we are able to give. And and what did that do? That that for me was the catalyst to action. moving from a sitting duck to like what must I do to have that hope that he has but also provide meaning and seeing what is our place here today even with all the changes and that goes back to purpose. So that hope fed the need to understand our purpose in a very fastchanging world. And as I understood that questions arose and again had to get over myself, had to show those financials. Had to show what
21:53 it was looking like. And it wasn't pretty. It really wasn't pretty. And it wasn't going to change unless I changed. Unless we changed. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk some more.
22:11 >> Or maybe not.
22:16 >> Um, technology is failing again.
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22:37 >> Going to have to go back.
22:43 >> Okay. Well, [laughter] we'll continue with our conversation. Um so um as you're you know you're you're looking now at you know reflecting back on the experiences that led you to where you are now. So, how do you um how do you help someone today to travel not the same path as you because we can never travel each other's paths, but how
23:19 do you help them travel the the path that is, you know, their path, I guess, is the best way to put it, right?
23:30 >> Well, absolutely. Um, so there's a couple of things, right? Because I mean, just like we're all different, we all can still go to the doctor's office, get a blood test, and the blood test will tell us healthy ranges. So there is, although every person we know, every human being is unique, everybody has a different finger, right? Digital digital
23:48 >> fingerprint.
23:50 >> Um, yet there's patterns that we can see to be able to catch when things are normal, abnormal, you know, they're strained. And just like that, there are things patterns in our communication, which is what I help people with with assessments. It's just like that there's patterns in the diagnosing of organizations to be able to see what's the functions maybe drained uh maybe overused and even in the different parts of organizations like you know specifically executive leadership team
24:25 to be able to see this the strain what what is going on what are the decisions that need to be making that we don't we're not making so I help in that I help with the assessments I help with the diagnosis I also help to be able to again as a strategist to be able to see which one's first because there's probably I mean like if you look at probably your your house or your body it's probably something you want to change somewhere at some point but what do we need to change what should we change right and that's where the forecasting and the ability to be able to see well where what is the vision telling us to do what do we want to are
25:01 we going through a crisis what we need to change is different than what if we're going seeking a opportunity it's going to be different than if we're executing on a strategy. So, it's being able to sometimes it's just get some clarity in that. I do that through executive coaching. I do that through um again the assessments, having the diagnosis, but really being able to start forming a pathway, a plan. One of the things that um actually my surgery became my blueprint for how I deal with organizational arrhythmias and organizational teic cardia is because my ablation what it was is a burning away
25:37 of all these extra nodes which is what was happening was all this firing of energy nodes that were making my heart go erratic right so it was a burning away of these extra things and I believe that is also with organizations it's not What more do you need? But what needs to be let go of? What do we need to really get rid of in order for us to be able to have that clarity? Once my heart had that clarity, that pathway, things started firing well, structurally well, everything was well. There was nothing else. There was no no other problems with artery, with veins, the the closing. No, it just needed clarity. And
26:14 I believe that's what's happening with organizations. So with lean six sigma is what we do. We get lean. We take away those things that are getting in the way. The overprocessing, the over inventory, the overbeatings that we have, you know, and really get to the root of the loss of human potential. Because in when we have the all these extra things we really the greatest loss is shown in the potential that we were not able to tap into to be able to accomplish together the innovative things that we need to so we can be sustainable for any future crisis or
26:49 opportunity that may come. So you you you mentioned there are certain common patterns, if you will, that that organizations fall into. Um and and you you alluded at least alluded to a couple of them.
27:05 >> If you would tell us more specifically, what are what are some of those patterns that that that you see tend to be pretty consistent among the the the organizations, the people with whom you deal? Well, the ones that are felt the fastest that are the loss of profit and the high turnover rate. [laughter] Those are usually when people start paying attention. It's kind of like as bad as a heart attack, right? Other stuff like I may have an allergy. I may I might deal with it later. But if it's a heart attack, you know, I'm going to go get somebody. So usually those are
27:40 the two reasons why people immediately come like profit is like we're making you might even making more but the expenses are out there [clears throat] as well. So the profit although we're busier than ever is one. The other one, like I said, is a turnover rate where you are able to get great talent, but you can't keep the talent or that talent may have like we call also silent quit where they're no longer engaged with you. They're still there. They're in a payroll. They're with you, but they're not being part of the solutions or even
28:16 what you had brought them on board or they had thought they were going to come in here. So those are the initial let's say when people are thinking about the the the symptoms like like the the warning signs that's when you're like in your car starts blinking like um the other ones that come that may be less uh not not felt immediately is the over inventory in all the subscriptions all the tools all the digital tools all the different things that we have digitally
28:52 Even all the extra things that we have even phys in our physical environments, things that are completely drowning people out where even to serve a customer, it might take you 10 different tabs in order for you to be able to do what you do. For some salespeople, might even over 20 between the AI, the CRM, the the coding to see, you know, how engaged the other person is, you know, the whatever note they're taking. I mean you start counting those things and that is not only um overprocessing but that really disconnects people from the
29:28 customer. So you may start seeing customer loyalty start suffering. You may start seeing that uh you're seeing more as a uh just a a transactional organization instead of that relationship um company that you maybe have started as. So when you have customers where are price shopping you versus uh the customers that are looking at you for solutions to their problems as a partner. That's another way that you start seeing it's time to also look those are again you don't want to get
30:04 there. You don't have to but usually that's when companies will start seeing there's a change that needs to be made.
30:12 >> Yeah. I I I I'm struck by how similar the the problems um that that you find in companies and the language you use to describe them. How similar that is to eating a healthy diet, right? Like like we we we eat these, you know, heavily processed foods. We eat too much food. Uh and and there I think there is a movement now. I see it certainly among my friends, simpler diets, you know, simpler foods, you know, high, you know,
30:50 getting rid of a lot of highly processed stuff that, you know, we might have eaten when we were younger, that sort of thing.
30:58 >> I'm I'm I'm I'm curious um h
31:02 >> you know, h how do you sort of I'm trying to think of how to formulate this question. Um, how do you or do you maybe extend what what what you talk to business owners and leaders about? Do you extend that beyond their their professional lives
31:29 >> beyond? Well, usually is the the family. I don't think anybody if you've had a problem at home and you go to show up for work, it may impact productivity, right? Even if it's like great news even if like hey your daughter's about to have a baby and it's happening at home has nothing to do as a good thing but you might be like your your mind is somewhere else you know so even like good things right I mean also that happens with bad things like bad news of course it's going to impact I mean that's why when we're looking at the organization it's not what what I use is always the internal alignment for external execution again for me that
32:04 having a heart problem didn't just impact my heart it impacted all the other systems. So that internal alignment was necessary. But when also when I was going through those episodes, I couldn't make decisions. I couldn't even operate my body. I mean, I literally had to be in a bed. For me to move, even lift my arm could become a code blue. So, you know, like it was that extreme. So, and that's one of the things that organizations need to do and look into the well-being of their employees, the well-being of their team members because again, it may not even be something that that you know it's
32:40 going to happen in the organization yet it's going to impact the entire organization. Does that mean that you need to become a counselor and a coach for everybody? Absolutely not. But you do have to have ways to be able to detect and have ability to be able to have what we call the empathetic leader. Be able to be that bring that self-awareness. Bring personal development to your organization because the great like the greatest monitor of you is you. So in personal development, it's really training people to be able to be that self-aware leader so they can monitor themselves and be able to like
33:15 you know like in the airport we hear if you see something say something. It's like the same way if you see something say something because it's going to keep us all better. Um and and that is one of the things that there of course at the organizational level is there's different things that for example a five-year-old company is going to go through that's different than a 15 year old company different than a 20- year old not even just that but also what it takes to get to the first million and from the first million to the 10 million is different it's different growing pains there's patterns from that too you know there's patterns of when you are at from going from your first 10 million
33:50 and next big jump 20 million but we know from the one million to the five million you're going to go through some things then not again it's bigger right so it's also understanding that the like just like a like human development where you know as an infant you need same type of food right as you're growing adolescent you did different you even might need more sleep as an adolescent you know your body is changing to where adult same thing with organizations so what I do is I take that into there I call those the paths of transformation so that goes that when I do the diagnosis I'm very much in tune also where the not
34:26 only the financial goals are but also the time right even in in team dynamics anytime that you have a new one or somebody leave it's going to impact the team dynamics so the better we can get into practice during times of crisis during when we want to execute on opportunity um be able to diagnose those well is definitely part of what I do and it's part of the conversation it's very different how a team is going to respond has been working together 10 years than one that you started at a startup. It's gonna be very different. Same problem, same crisis, same thing. Even same amount of money in the in the bank
35:02 account, it's going to be very different. So, um definitely understanding and that's for all of you, you know, if you if your audience is if they're at the different stages, understanding that there's different stages to the business, understanding that there's the cycle. And that's why it's so important to be able to know as a leader, you know, where am I in my business journey, you know, where where do I need to go? And that's another symptom. If I've been in this cycle for a long time and and my intent is to grow, right? Because we can't be the same revenue the whole time, then that is also a key to like what do I need to
35:38 do because our growth has been stunted, right? And if like your kid isn't growing, you're taking them to the specialist like, hey, what do we need to do? And the same thing is the organization. The leader is that monitor for the organization. The leader is the one that's able to take the pulse of the organization and be able to see what is the healthy what does the organization need to do healthy so we can execute on that mission, on that vision, and doing it with the values that not only we uphold, but that we make our decisions through. How how has what you do changed over the
36:16 last um several years as we've gone from uh the sort of precoid work environment where you know most people still went into an office or a workplace to now much more of a hybrid workplace at least a lot you know and for a lot of companies. Um yeah, how how how have how has how has what you've done changed as a result of that or or am I am I misperceiving what's what's going on?
36:47 >> No, I think uh co did teach us a lot of what what's important. So the the team members started demanding a lot more like hey this is this matters to me. It really brought that whole mortality in a sense. uh the the need for connection, it brought it to the front line. Like the same way like you know, yeah, I look at that life differently because I've gone through two heart attacks. Yeah. Because I've gone through things. So my perspective in life changed since the beginning. There's things that I care about that maybe other people don't even care. I think that's one of the things that we saw with COVID is that it brought that to the to the front line. And the other part that it brought is
37:22 well employees started firing companies. We saw that it really what it the next thing that it brought to the to the to the front line is that well we we've heard this before. We heard that you know people don't leave organizations, people leave people. But we really didn't believe it. I think until started people really leaving people uh and thinking that a paycheck is going to keep somebody there. No, I mean people started taking either pay cuts or working differently or maybe like working losing the security that they so much wanted for the gig economy. As long as they could still value and be able to
37:59 engage with those things that they value, um how it changed for me is that culture became a factor in organizations whereas maybe culture wasn't as much in the front lines. The other thing that came in is like the way that we do work and how do we work together, the language, that was something else that came in. Even emotional intelligence, people were starting to see that, okay, it's not just the computer skills that we need, but we need the computer skills experts to have that emotional intelligence as well because they're going into the higher levels of leadership. They're going they're having to deal with outside of technology,
38:34 they're having to deal with financial, they're having to deal with um human resources. technology was starting to touch everything now, not just one department, it's everything. And realizing that that line of leaders, that bench line of leaders was not ready for the leadership that outside of the expertise that they provided. So my work became a lot with technology technology leaders moving from a technology manager to a te to a leader in the organization. And that was a way that it it evolved to where a lot of leaders also that were
39:09 there that may need the skills but beyond the skills is how do you apply the skills not that again the knowledge of it all because knowledge started changing too especially now with AI I don't like do I even need to learn this so that was the question that came so the application of that though is still very relevant how do you apply how do you discern how do you navigate that so that's where leadership comes in as Well, so where my work is is moving from a PowerPoint information dump to really utilizing that knowledge and let me
39:46 teach you how to integrate this tool in your everyday. So, we're we're coming up toward the end of our time and and I want to ask you, so I've got one one more question to uh to kind of throw at you and and that is uh how do you see the integration or lack thereof of people's working lives with their lives outside of work?
40:17 >> Well, it has to be everything. I mean otherwise we we're we're asking people to be bipolar. I don't think we want that. [laughter] So I feel like I think we want people to be one of sound mind be bring their whole selves. So very much um we try that right we try like hey keep your stuff outside and you know professional here whatever professional was because we really don't even understand the standard on that. So here my response to that is love uh really loving to yourself right you gota you have to love yourself in order to love others uh loving others and being and we
40:53 say it in a different way right more acceptable well you know value yourself you know we're people that see value in others and add value to them and again the value comes from love and and I believe that it it h we're we're asking our leaders we're we're literally burning them out asking our leaders to be empathetic leaders to be leaders that are highly emotional intelligence and let at the same time asking them not to ex express any emotion in what they do. We're asking salespeople to bring in the sales number when sales is a change of emotion but yet we don't want you to be
41:28 emotional here. I mean like you can't have the outcome without the input right and of course the input we're talking about human being is very complex. uh we are complex beings which is what makes us so beautiful which is why we can't just be replaced by a simple software or a simple screen there's complexity there's threedimensionality to us but most importantly there's authority to us so as I see this part is uh again the best self-aware self-aligned leader that I am authority over who I am my understanding my own identity understanding my my fears my loves my
42:05 why I embrace and letting this what I do every day be an expression of that. It's not going to only make me more valuable to you in the organization, but it's going to make us all more valuable as an organization. Again, leadership and being able to align doing that. And I see that that's really the solution to move forward.
42:26 >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, that and and that's I think that's a good note on which to wrap this up because it really it really strikes the holistic theme that that again runs through all of the way to wow shows that we are integrated human beings
42:42 >> and we can't bifurcate bifurcate or triurcate ourselves. We we need to be looking a at our lives, you know, if if if we if we have values for our family, but those same values apply in the workplace, they apply when we're out driving in the community, etc. So,
43:02 >> they do.
43:04 >> Hannah, thank you so much for joining me today. I think there's a lot of uh not just superb but very nourishing thoughts that you've shared um that that we can you know sort of mull over over in the coming weeks and and um you know integrate into our lives. So I I really appreciate you spending this time with me.
43:27 >> Oh well I appreciate you having me and thanks for making this platform and our ability to have this conversation. So thank you so much for the work you do.
43:34 >> You're welcome. I'm going to have you hang tight for just a minute while I wrap up. So, so folks, if you um if you have comments, u questions, even criticisms, if you look right down below you in the show notes, you'll see links to social media, you can click through to them and um always happy to respond. And if you uh tag Hannah, I'm sure she'll be happy to respond as well. Her contact information is also in the show notes. So just, you know, take a look below there if if if you think that that Hannah can help you, and I'm I'm pretty
44:10 sure that she can, um, you know, re reach out to her and and perhaps she can help you work through uh, you know, whatever the challenges are that you have with with your business, your professional life, or maybe just kind of more broadly your life in general. So, uh, real quickly, the schedule of shows every week. Mondays at 10 a.m. Pacific time, Trust and Estates Weekly, Tuesdays at 10 a.m. Pacific time, uh, uh, business lessons from the military. Wednesdays, like today at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, people making money. And then every other Thursday at 5:00 p.
44:47 p.m. Pacific time is my show, Jiggers's Place, where we sit back and have a cocktail and a schmoo, and we talk about all the things that aren't related to finances. And so, lots of times for us uh to be uh together during the week. So, um thanking you once again for joining us, Hannah. Again, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts uh with with uh with my audience and um wishing you all a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage at all
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