0:00 hello and welcome to people making money I'm your host Kevin bemel and we are here every Wednesday morning at 10 AM uh Pacific time and 1 pm on the East Coast which is I think where my my guest is right you're you're on the East Co days on East Coast yes there you go yeah and uh for those of you who are regular viewers of the show you probably recognize this lady um she was my guest a few weeks ago and we had an amazing conversation about the uh sort of early early to kind of mid part of of her of
0:37 her life this is Vanessa Donaldson and U uh I'm gonna do a a brief recap if I can and correct me if I'm wrong see how my memory is right so um Vanessa um started out life um uh her her father was uh an American her mother uh was was German and her father was in the Diplomatic service which is how he met her mother um and after they got married um he was posted to Africa which is where you were born
1:13 right exactly Cameroon West Africa very good yeah and so um throughout her Young Life Vanessa you know traveled from place to place as her father went from post to post eventually was came back here to the United States um primarily on the East Coast as I recall and um and and grew up there went to went to college and after college joined the Peace Corp if you can imagine um and and sort of took on a bit of that nomadic life on her own um and and um you were
1:48 in the Sahel right in the Peace Corps as I recall yes yes ner is how you pronounce or Niger but above Nigeria it's a different country people always like to lump together but n West Africa in the Sahel desert absolutely and and it was it was there that she met the man who at the time was um in the Marine Corps um on Embassy Duty as as I recall and he he ended up um being posted to Italy and uh and so Vanessa um left the uh the Peace Corps and um moved to Italy
2:25 and got a job in the uh in the the consulate there right let me correct I didn't just leave I extended in the Peace Corp first I did two years and then I extended another six months was supposed to be year to be a volunteer leader and move into a city and being in I want to say I didn't just quit and leave I almost lost my husband because during that time we had a $200 phone call that's what my paycheck was with him asking me where are you aren't you coming I said I just got this promotion thing and I'm staying another six months and he said what am I doing waiting for you in Italy for this is ridiculous so that's a big thing didn't did not leave extended and then made my way wrote a postc
3:00 mom met a marine fell in love with a marine moving to Rome and then that's where Rome ended up and and and so there then you were in Rome and you became U um quite quite the um um habitu of of um gosh you know I'm going up Rome what is what is Rome's nickname Paris is the city of light Rome has a name like that I can't think of what it is now love for me I don't know um but then eventually um you and your husband came back here to the United States um and um and that's
3:36 that's I think that's sort of where we uh kind of left off um W with your the boyfriend the boyfriend we came back did a courthouse wedding um had a baby went right to the base and got a military ID dependent ID and started that journey in the Marine Corps as a spouse right so so um after last the last show uh Vanessa and I decided she needed to come back and and pick up her story um now as as a what we call in the military a mill spouse which is you know an acronym basically or or a shorten anyway of military
4:12 spouse by the way for the longest time I could not figure out what mil spouse was it's okay you're male because I was like Mills pouse millsp what is you know yeah and I purposely use that title because that's my people those are are my women I hang out with so if you don't quite get the acronym and the name then maybe that's not you know we're not the right fit to work with either and stuff so house it's a very unique yeah acronym yeah and and an acronym you guys have acronyms for everything in the military we want to have one too yeah yeah and and you know
4:47 one of the interesting things is is is you'll see um programs Etc that are um uh you know designed to help um veterans mil milary people um but you actually see not very much that's specifically for military spouses um which is a little bit strange in this day and age because um anyone who's been in the military knows that um if if you have a family um your your
5:25 spouse um in many ways has a much more difficult life than um the service member him or herself um a service member's life is is is is pretty straightforward like this is what you do um but a military spouse is is sort of you have to be a jack of all trades and um you know you're left on your own for long periods of time so but but you know rather than me talking about so tell us tell us let's start by talking about kind of without maybe going
6:00 through each you know Duty station what were the challenges that you faced as a military spouse and how and more importantly how did you overcome them because I think that's really the foundation for what you're doing now yeah okay so the challenges to wrap it up because we could go on for five hours probably with Vanessa on here the challenge well first starting off as a military spouse without a background was one challenge in itself I did not I had my dad who served the Army but he passed away and when I was 19 in college so I never got to have those conversations with him you know we went to his funeral
6:36 he died of a heart attack and I saw um a flag getting folded and handing to my mom and I said why is Dad getting a flag what is this well yeah he served in the Army little stint well that's kind of big information so I didn't know what it was like to to grow up with that I don't have a legacy a long Legacy of yeah my dad did and my grandparent so it was all kind of new and foreign to me so so joining the military Community I found that as soon as I was the spouse we got settled quickly in Camp hton California after we took the baby and the rider truck and drove cross country and emptied my mom's house out um and after a few months of training you know he
7:11 said all right babe you know I'm gonna be going off to this deployment thing and I'll be back and I said I literally said ad D what what are you doing what what what's this training and he said deployment you know I mean he uses the word he knows what he signed up for I didn't know what I signed up for and I'm like do so he had to spell it out this is you know a pre Googling everything I said what is a de a deployment what is that can you can you explain that more he's like yeah I got it you know hop on the ship in San Diego and I'll be like floating around in the Persian Gulf we're gonna do some donuts and then we'll be back you know like it was all just in one sentence and I'm like but
7:46 I'm home with a baby and are we gonna be able to communicate you know so yeah that was my introduction to the military learning it was like trial by fire and just that was a challenge having to move around and always seeing wow my husband gets to go to work I was happy for him he he went to work he had a mission he had a job to do he had an entire network of people to work with so you're like completely built into a community wherever you guys go and then I realized oh my gosh I'm gonna have to create my own space here I'm the spouse like they don't immediately put us all in a room together and say let's have a Kumbaya
8:21 spouse session everybody to get together and who's your husband with and you know there's a lot of drama that goes on with that too if you're different ranks and fraternization and you're you can't hang out with everybody so there was yeah a lot of alone time in figuring it out really quickly like how am I going to survive on my own with a baby keep it going and my husband kind of comes and goes like this is the lifestyle there's got to be more than this I got to make purpose out of this I got to be positive and uh so the challenges were about moving around and having to find my own path every time it had to do with the job placement movement I mean when he
8:56 first deployed uh the very first deployment was really rough it was my first time away from him that long after we just you know had this crazy love affair going on in the middle of the Sahel desert and then off to Rome Italy and we're zipping around at the tower of Piaza and throwing coins in the Trevy f f you know and all a sudden we couldn't even get on to the military base in California at first because there was a weight list I didn't know about that either I thought you just move on a base wherever you go I'm like there's a weight list well yeah it's a really popular spot people want to get to Camp Pendleton so took us a year to live in town and to move on face so it was
9:31 challenging to to change jobs every time I realized oh my gosh I have to start a new job again which is something I do in my coaching too like I can prep those active duty spouses on thinking about their career they're going to go into where they want to allocate their time if they want to monetize if they want to be part-time full-time because some jobs are more transferable when you move around and other jobs like you're just starting from scratch again so my resume I say is you know very colorful and if you're not in the military I just look like a job Hopper they're like wow this this girl can't hold keep a job she is moving every two to three years completely different fields you know
10:07 I've done government work I've worked for Centers for Disease Control um overseas in uh trand Tobago I've worked for American Business group I've work for a private uh training company with the United Arab Emirates shakes you know like everything was in Arabic and I was like the American liazon so I've done all kinds of colorful jobs I've had like you said Jack of all trades just like here we go let me find something but I do find some spouses hey they go maybe into the medical field become like a a a hygienist or something there have been many places I moved and I'll find a military spouse and I'm like oh that was smart she found a transferable job so
10:43 when her husband moves she can keep doing what she's doing in that medical field so yeah things to think about when you're you know becoming a military spouse the job the job moving around is it's it's a challenge some places like when we got to Hawaii I did the math and for to put my kids in daycare to go work was more expensive than me just to stay home so I joined maluca and did more network marketing my own schedule I was like I'm not putting my kids in a daycare and paying paying money and then putting all and then having a job and putting my entire paycheck into a daycare system that's not gonna work for me so yeah finding finding your way that
11:20 way being alone finding your network um moving around with the jobs thinking about transferable jobs if if you have something like that or starting your own business there are some military resources for M spouses online to help spouses start businesses there there are grants out there there's camaraderie and support you can you can you know tap into so that you can also be in a group of like-minded people that are moving around like you that have that lifestyle of transition that can understand you and they get you you don't need to go through that background just to help you on you know how to do your business plan what this is look like are are you selling a product or a service so all
11:55 those types of things come out when when the longer you stay in the military I've been married 27 plus years now to my Marine my Marine I know somebody else interviewed me they're like you call him my Marine I'm like I'm really proud of that like I own him like it's a piece of property you know I years ago oh my gosh I would say I was the mistress you know was I didn't really say my Marine because I felt like the military owned him the military had priority where are we going what are we doing you know he needs to check in and and do scheduling and sign in and out with them not the wife so I used to joke that I'm the mistress I'm like okay you going to work to your first bride tonight and then coming home I was just
12:31 the mistress on the back end like hey I'm bet Employments here I am let's have another baby and then he comes off again so yeah my Marine I like to affectionately say that now uh because he he is kind of all mine I don't have to share them with the military anymore so that yeah those are challenges and then overcoming I would just say the Forefront of everything my foundation for me has been my faith if I had not tapped into a a local church places I've been and tapped into to powerful mentoring Christian women that could lead me and guide me and give me support I really don't know where our marriage
13:06 would be because what over 50 60% of military marriages end in divorce I didn't want to be a statistic and I just remember this moment of pushing my stroller down the street in San Clemen where somewhere in downtown San Clemente which you might have been to since you're in LA and um thank God for those evangelists this woman approached me with a flyer and you know what do we do with when people have Flyers we're usually abort Mission run you don't even at this day and age you don't even put your hand out you know but this was in the early night or mid90s and um I was still a little open not worried that
13:41 someone's gonna attack me or what's going on so I'm with the stroller and she just passed a flyer and I I had the choice I could have ignored her I could have looked away I could have thrown it right in the trash without reading it but for some reason and I call it Divine God intervention or whatever I picked up this flyer and it was an invitation to tiny little church that was meeting right there at the uh edge of North Beach so by the casino if you've ever gone to events by the San Clemente casino right across there they have like a wedding hall they have a performance area there and a swimming pool it's like a little clubhouse and they would meet on the top floor they got permission to
14:17 have this little church setup on the top floor every Sunday and I went home with that flyer and all I could think was I'm going to need I need God I can't do this alone my husband's getting ready to deploy he's going to be gone for six to eight months or something I cannot be I cannot do this alone so it's kind of my initial surrendering I grew up Catholic and went through the the you know the the rituals I even taught catechism I think at one point in high school it was like another friend and I we were the two youngest like volunteers and they'd love to send all the kids to us because we were closer to their age group we
14:52 were the elderly doing this you know out of a nursing home or something we were like younger and we were engaging we had activities so so yeah helping people with catechism for communion went through that and I do appreciate the Catholic tradition with um the the structure and the organ music when you go in there like when we're traveling I love to go into like a church around holiday or whenever just for prayer and hear someone playing that organ music with all of the petals and the sound and then you add you know choir for a holiday and it's like Angelic so yeah this was not that church it was just in a little clubhouse but that's okay our our worship was actually on a tape
15:28 recorder and the the pastor and his wife ran it he was the pastor and his wife uh helped with the worship and she literally you know worship time she hit play on a with a cassette player remember those guys cassette and um we would hit play and we'd sing that way but you know it didn't matter because when you're communing it doesn't matter you know what the setting the point is to connect with your source with your God and the view that we had was like the Pacific Ocean with Windows all around so it was a pretty magical spot and I had to go home and have that conversation with my husband too and say so you know you're deploying you know we haven't really had
16:03 a regular Church attendance as we've been dating and tromping around the world it's time to get serious we have a baby now like can we please go and check this church out like that was kind of the conver and he was like yes let's do it I mean thank God I didn't have to convince he grew up Methodist I didn't have to convince so we ended up there and uh on the weekends every Sunday the mothers would take turns in the childcare too so if you had a kid and maybe you didn't even have a kid but if you had a kid you were definitely on the child care role system so we all took one Sunday a month and we were downstairs with the kids doing the dayare and doing their little bible
16:38 study but that Foundation was instrumental in my my spiritual growth my self- growth I ended up getting um re-baptized saved you know again because I got baptized as a little baby on the Catholic Church you know with the sprinkle but this was my first time stepping into the water like you know John the Baptist was doing with people just watched the whole um series of the chosen so it's all fresh in my head I was in the Pacific Ocean I was I I had my daughter dedicated we had our daughter dedicated before he left and then I was pregnant with our son now and
17:13 I remember getting baptized you know I was like I felt like I was getting like the bonus package because I'm in the water with my baby in my tummy and I'm like oh let's get both of us on this track and we you know he took me under the water and back and that was when I really rededicated my life to God and said I'm gonna try to follow your your ways and you know um honor you and all that so and and I did that I think I don't think my husband was there and that was kind of a trigger point because he came back and it was such a big momentous event in my life it's like I got baptized I got dedicated you know things happen in these three six month spans and you just miss them life life
17:48 goes on right and there's so much you can put in in letters uh we weren't doing email much by then we tried on one ship the essic they tried to do email but one guy used the email the wrong way and the entire ship went on lockdown that was it so I was like oh great there goes that communication River City came back and said you got you got baptized without me like that was the first time I was like well and I tried to explain well we come into this world alone and we leave alone I mean and I'm happy to do it again with you we can set that up I'll go in 100 I don't care but yeah I felt the calling and I got in the water and he's like it just took him a little
18:25 like that was a big moment almost like a wedding type date that he wasn't there for like you did that without me I'm like yes I I felt the calling and I jumped in the ocean so since then we have um yeah gotten baptized together again that was important for both of us so we've done that but that was the foundation so I knew wherever I would move whatever was thrown at us whatever challenge was coming our way I felt like you know we're going to overcome because we're going to lean on God we're going to lean on uh Community from from spiritual churches and and bible-based spiritual churches and take it from there it was that same church that
19:00 helped me as an example when my husband did deploy so the first deployment I was very scatterbrained very I don't know what I'm doing with myself I'm looking at this baby it was just like it like a the fog of War it was a blur that's why I call it in you know my little book we can talk about later the back end Battlefield it was like I felt like I was in a battlefield on the back end and no one could see it even if there's resources and stuff on bass it was just shocking and I think I spent a lot more time going to the wine store grabbing wine I was sitting with another spouse and she noticed she said she she gave me a gift and she gave me the wine Stoppers and I'm like what's that for you know CU
19:36 I'm just having my pity party crying and I miss my husband she uh she was such a great mentor she was two steps ahead of me she had been through deployments our husbands deploy together so that's nice connecting with women that's another you know um tip I have connect with women when your husbands are deployed don't be go in the bars and hanging out with the men but connect with the women and be supportive for each other and she actually became what's her her name Jill budro she became mayor for a little town next to like pug somewhere in Washington we've seen her since then but this is the kind of you know level of leadership that these women go out and do after their spell she became mayor and like
20:11 reup like four rounds or three rounds finally she's retiring from that but yeah she brought me these wine Stoppers and I said what's that she's like well I've noticed you know when we're having wine like you're like kind of going through the whole bottle almost like you can save some of it and drink it tomorrow too or the next day and I said well it's not GNA taste right then and my husband's not here to share with me and she said yeah that's why we have these Stoppers so you can suck all the air out and it was like the best little gift so and that's where I realized I can't keep going down this path every time he deploys this is not going to end well for me and my health and my well-being so by the second round of
20:46 deployment again something got put in the mailbox I don't know how I saw it it ended up in the trash I reached down picked it up and it was to start continuing education so I had my college degree but it was for the local education center on base and I crumpled it up at first threw it away and then I was like what did what did I just throw away there just like that other flyer that came to me and I'll never forget Barbara with the church flyer and then that pamphlet it's like seared in my mind I said what's this education thing and I brought up my husband he's like yeah maybe yeah go back to school work on something while I'm gone and I'm like you know what I should that would be a
21:21 much more positive way to spend my time going back to school focused on education for something and not sitting at home having a pity party you know just sharing my bottles of wine with my spous so I I went and talked to the office and I was very you know not confident just like what am I getting into even though I had a a bachelor's degree but I just didn't know what I was getting into and she was just the calist sweetest lame was like we can do this your husband's going to be gone but these are the courses this is what's coming up what do you want to focus on we'll get you in the program at that point they didn't have as many grants and stuff for the spouses so I would
21:56 bring my checkbook to every time every three weeks we had a new course and the vets were all like it's all covered under the GI I'm I'm covered you know they would smirk and rocking the and I'm like writing a check I remember it was like a thousand something every time like why am I writing this check this is ridiculous so yeah I did that and I didn't think I could do this course but that church came in handy because they said oh you want to go back to school we will help watch your daughter while you have night school and while you have classes and I thought this is a powerful Church it didn't have to be a mega Joel Olstein out of Texas this is right five or six families communing together and
22:31 I'm like you all would do that you're gonna help watch my daughter so I can go to class like yes that's what we're here for that's what church does that's what we do we fellowship and we support each other and I'll never forget that group and they would take my daughter every Friday night and Saturday all day like whenever I had class and I would rotate them around the families and they would just pluck Malik in there with their kids and keep going and I was able to do that so I think goes in school for about a year year and a half so six months of that time while my husband was away they were helping and then he came home and and then there was that shift what do
23:06 you mean you have to leave all the time I'm like you got the kid duty I got class I would encourage work on you know a trade skill something you're passionate about something you're excited to do I I ended up doing Administration a master's master of science and administration MSA because I like uh organizing things on the computer and flowcharts and you know organizational structure of how companies are set up and all that stuff so I that's what I went for so yeah that that is something that has stuck with me the The Keeping the Faith building that network of um Christian supporters and
23:41 then being open to you know wherever you go don't look at it as uh a downside or negative thing you know my my coaching background is also in positive intelligence so you just look at everything as a gift or an opportunity the worst thing can be going on you're like oh my gosh I mean we bought a house in Florida and ended up up with hurricane Ian you know soon after that's pretty negative not fun not you know things out of our control all the time but uh we actually stayed well and the reason we stayed was because years before we were in Hurricane Katrina in Texas and my husband was gone so I've already been through a hurricane alone with two kids so when people were just
24:17 going crazy in the meetting and get on the roads and I was like you know what I've been through this before I went through the the the side of getting on the road uh in the middle of August in Texas imagine that heat with everybody gridlock I mean I was 20 minutes from the airport and it took like two hours to get there it was crazy and then it was just a gridlock and then you would look out it looked like a war zone when you looked out of your window you saw dead horses dead dogs diapers that's like what I remember because ACS were going off in cars they literally had horses that were were dying of overheat exhaust the dogs and then the baby diapers so that was my vision of
24:54 the Hurricane Katrina it took two hours to get to someplace you know friend said come stay with me out of the zone or whatever CU things were starting in Galveston and they really thought it would have a ripple effect all the way to Houston right and I was set I had my Waters filled in the bathtubs I had canned food in the bathtubs in the bathrooms I had sleeping bags pillows I was ready to hunker down with my kids in a bathroom but then I had my mother and my husband emotional ears get out get out get out they're watching stuff on the news my mom from Germany my husband from California training he was trying to get me out with the kids on like one of the last planes and we didn't make it
25:29 like they shut down the airport that was it so all this emotional drama of you got to get out we got it so I loaded up the car and did it for them and just ended up crying on the freeway for like 20 hours and my phone wasn't charging the juice was dying my husband kept calling like where are you now and I'm like my phone's dying and I'm not wor we got to this friend's house who I knew and she we ended up in like a shack with a tin roof it was louder in her house than in my solid brick house I got bit by fire ants I'll just that whole episode so when he looked at me and said would you like to leave or stay when hurricane Ian came by I'm like we will
26:04 stay and go down with the ship we'll go down with the house so we sat there you know it was personal decision some left some stayed I didn't want to be stuck on Bridges getting you know flooded and all that and we stayed to the point of watching we didn't know what a hurricane impact window was but we we do now because we watched that that window it literally like goes with the wind and bows and it it would bow more we got up to I forgot what the category is we were category four technically I think it should have been a five based on the numbers that were popping up but I think for insurance reasons whatever keep it a
26:39 four we put less money out I don't know but watching that window bowing and we were there in the eye of the Storm Port Charlotte was actually in the the eye of the storm wow but yeah we survived that and what do I do with that information yeah it was breath work it was staying calm uh my husband was running in and out of the house trying to move branches fences were flying all over we actually were in church praying the weekend before like whoever's staying we're hunkering down God bless you all protect these houses I mean the Pastor was just having a prayer vigil and ironically enough after the hurricane our fence was the only one still standing in like the
27:14 whole neighborhood crazy we had fence flying from Neighbors whatever and we run our place like an Airbnb too so all those hits started straight away hey we're bringing pets is your fence standing we saw what's going on in your area I said please keep on coming the fence is standing now it is leaning a little bit it does need some work but it's still standing so yeah doing doing uh all those using all those skills that you learn from being so flexible with this military Journey as a spouse it gives you strength to like overcome these types of challenges I I would call myself for years The Seer Gumby wife you
27:49 know I mean the guys the Marines have Seer f everything Seer F out there and I'm like well I'm a Seer something so I'm like I'm Seer Gumby wife because I'm all Gumby remember that was that from the 80s that little Gumby thing oh no no that's from way like the 50s or earlier yeah Gumby and Pokey yeah okay well it still has a they still had some characters that were floating around there in the 80s or the 70s still but yeahum super flexible stretchy thing right that was that was all that's all over the military at least all over the sea Services because I I know when I went through officer training I used to hear that and simper Gumby always Gumby
28:30 which is essentially what that means okay always be the sort of weird looking guy with a with a pony green right well I remember like he was green yeah and Pokey was orange yeah so hopefully I've evolved from the green blob but Gumby in the sense of yeah being stretchable being flexible being just open to what's next and looking at everything as a gift and opportunity it's it's it's interesting because um I I suspect that um your experience is is very similar to many spouses
29:09 experiences um I know that um when I was in the Navy um I was married and I know the the first deployment I went on um you know I I I left behind my wife and and our daughter who at the time was three or four three years old I think she was and we were on a a n Naval Air Station Lam more Naval Air Station which is essentially a fighter fighter Squadron base right and um the the aviation Naval Aviation
29:45 is a very clickish community so if you are the wife of what we call the pointy noses which are the fighter jets right so um you consider yourself to be on the top of the Heap so if if if there's a wife who um whose husband is in um like um you know air air um ACC log wi Air Command and control and they they fly prop planes right so you're not as good right and they won't they won't associate with you so interestingly
30:21 enough um my commanding officer he was a naval flight officer but he was an um he was an um Air Command and control guy and so when we went on deployment his wife who was the commanding officer's wife um the the other wife fighter Pilot's wives didn't want to hang out with her so she and my wife created a kind of a small group that then you know they they they built that support around you know the the the two of them um and I mean it was it was really funny because I would go um and see my co on
30:58 the boat from time to time and he he he'd regil me with stories of things that his wife told me that she and and and my wife had done you know to sort of and and she was sort of leading the way because you know at that point she'd been through I don't know half a dozen eight deployments and this was the first one that my you know that that my wife had had gone through so it was quite interesting and and before that when we were in okanawa so although we were Jewish and there weren't very many Jews I know can now as you might imagine um there was there were very strong
31:33 Christian communities there and um I I because I was a chaplain so I knew a number of the um other chaplain and and I got to know you know some of their wives a little bit and when my wife showed up I mean it was shell shock because she showed up um go she was about seven months pregnant it was just before she was not allowed to fly we had two dogs who had been flown in just prior to her getting there and she's in the military environment but also overseas in a
32:08 foreign country and and I'm working you know at least 10 to 12 hours a day right and so I'm I was almost never there and a couple of the women took her under her under their wings and and you know really made her part of of a small community there it was really was a faith community um and it was it was VE it was very rewarding for her I think to feel part of this community of of of women leading god- centered lives um
32:43 because you know that was that was important to us um and even though we didn't share um you know denom denominationally uh the same faith yet our our perspective was was very similar um and and and one of the things I and and this is I I think one of the lessons I I I suspect you would agree with this is um in the military you learn to build your community so you you have the benefit of being part of this sort of large almost
33:18 fraternity if you will um but even so it's too big to provide the kind of support that we need but what what you learn is very quickly to build a small group around yourself and and that's how you survive and it's it's interesting because I don't see that a whole lot in civilian life um in the same way because the communities that are built in the military they're they're very supportive in a positive way so it's it's not you know women going out and getting
33:54 hammered every day and and that kind of stuff um you know I mean not not to say that they don't go out or do whatever of course they do but but that's not the main the main focus is is um like you were saying about yourself sustaining a healthy life physically mentally spiritually um and and it certainly can be done um but I I think it's it's probably harder to do in civilian life but it it can be accomplished in civilian life too so and and so so let if we're we're actually we're a little over halfway
34:29 through this hour already so let's let's shift and talk about now what you're doing um in civilian life because I have a feeling it it dovetails onto what I was just saying yeah yeah it does when you talked about building that Community it just brought back memories too when we did move on the base of Camp Pendleton we were in a cuer saac so that was my community it was like the where they were all we were inlisted side so we had duplexes attached so two four six probably eight homes and that was my go-to we could knock on each other's door for anything if we needed help with hey can you watch my kid I need to run here or you know I'm out of eggs or
35:05 whatever there was that sense of community that you don't get uh and that's something that I think military spouses miss when we do leave you said we have a lot of similarities if whether I'm speaking or another military spouse I was just on a a podcast yesterday and it was like four or five of us and it was unbelievable when people were sharing piggybacking off one story after another it was like oh my gosh it was so much in common yeah so yeah how do we how do I bring that into my current state of being a retired military spouse uh that transition you know when my husband got out I get it he served 22 plus years in the Marine Corps he was
35:40 not at all interested in filling out we went through that Taps class that three-day you know Transitional Assistance Program and you know they let the wives pepper in here and there or maybe I clawed my way and like I want to see what they're talking about I'm getting out too I want to learn something right it is I have to I have to interject here and I've been talking about about this for years it is amazing to me that there is no transition assistance program for family members as if the only one who's transitioning is the service member it's it's really kind of mindboggling on a certain level right yeah and I think we spoke in another pocket maybe when I was
36:16 interviewing you about you know needing this transition to start maybe three years before you get out and there's resources out there now with vets that are doing that because they realize a one weekend you know fire hose drill is not going to get you prepared all the way from getting your medical charts prepped for your VA disability claim to where you're moving to resources for employment everything it's like a three-year window so you can ease into it you know so but the Taps thing that's what they'd offer I don't know if it's called that now but I I remember joining the resume building day and the you know job placement and it was just dry and
36:51 like everybody bringing your resume in and they like were trying to look over it and then they did mock interviews standing up taking turns presenting and I'm just like I don't know what's going on here so we all leave in this blur and uh my husband was like done he was not about to go get a job he said I'm never goingon to answer yes sir to anybody again that those were his words when he came home and then I mentioned how he was home and I was going to work and the kids are like his dad ever leaving the house again and I was like so I asked are you gonna get a job again like what's what are you thinking he's like I'm never answering sir to anybody I'm like no dad's not leaving the house he will be home guys just get comfortable with your new normal so so so that
37:28 transition for me once he got out there was kind of a panic like oh my gosh that military even like our insurance everything was going to go on act on uh to the retired side not on active duty our premiums were going to go up like everything was going to change so I decide I said well let what if I go back to work and he stays home and I thought okay like we had this conversation he was kind of like yeah if you want to go work go for it you know I'll stay home I like okay but you got to be in charge of the kids pickup schedule and all that so we had that transition and I applied and got a job at a Solar Company uh that was out of El Toro you know Irvine area and
38:04 um they're still in all the Costco Sun Run it's called so I helped build them up before they went public I helped train all their people I was you know they said they hired me for my customer service I got employee of the month I was um helping like keeping track of 200 plus people getting solar on their roof and making sure they had personal attention and not left behind and and then after all that we doubled in size we moved to a we went public and then they um laid me off because I had trained all these young kids that could take my job and pay for three people instead of one so that was kind of fast forward that was kind of the triggering point that said you know I'm kind of over working for people and and
38:40 investing all that time and energy being away from my family and then getting laid off so I did that my husband was so happy the day I came home with my box crying like I just went to the work office and they said okay pack up your box you're out like that's how layoffs go usually they don't give you like a whole booklet like now the next week we're going to bring you in the office and it is a shocker and nobody likes to feel thrown aside and you know um you washed up used up whatever right so I came home with that box you know they gave me a little $2,000 or $3,000 severance check or something and and uh my husband was so happy he's like I have
39:15 my wife back because I was putting in like 10 to 12 hours I think I was coming in early staying late hiding with the laptop in the bathroom on the weekend and he's like you're not the CEO this is crazy so when I came home with my box crying he was like where's that s did they give you a check all right I mean I was still crying I'll never forget he took that mobile phone thing he clacked on he's like all right my daughter had just come home from college he's like you're in charge of the house you know take care of the dogs in the sun I'm taking Mom off and off we went and had a weekend like retreat so that's how that went down but over time and then working for myself yeah there's a lot of fog there's a lot of blur but it built me to the place where I am today and after
39:51 retirement with my husband staying home and then me going to work now we're both home together we started a boating Ministry I noticed for him going to the ocean was his therapy ocean therapy that was it so after a year of fishing off a paddle board out of the Pacific he actually you know he got one little check from the military and said do you mind if I buy myself a little fishing boat I'm like please get off that paddle board and get get yourself protected because I'm literally going to work every day wondering is my husband coming home tonight he's on a paddle board with the sharks in the ocean of course Marine he thinks he's Invincible women would send me pictures like oh we were at lunch at the fisherman's Pier look what
40:26 we saw at the end and they're sending me photo of my husband it was a red paddle board very noticeable right off the water like yep he's I'm like okay he's paddle boarding off the pier today okay got it so yeah when we so when he said he was getting a fishing boat I said go for it and then I tried to go on there and the first boat was like a 14f footer it was a little small for me with those ocean waves in California and I spent more time hanging over the boat you know throwing up getting seasick it was like honey I can't do this and this like this is his dream now and I can't be a part of it but he moved up he got we ended up with a 21 foot Parker fishing which he loves now and uh we started I watched
41:03 him go fishing he would take me out there on my own and then I realized I said this is such a good thing we have to share this with other our veterans like we can't just keep this to ourselves and the cath the church upbringing you know it's like hey if you s something you have a light you shine it so of course there's all those dream killers they call them I heard that from the other day or negative Nell he's like what bring foreigners on your boat bring total strangers I mean these are medicated what if they slash your throat and they're going to have a slip and fall I mean people had an excuse for everything with why this wouldn't work and but you know being the positivity person I am I'm like I'm not listening to all that we'll have a little waiver
41:39 that they can eign saying okay you're on our boat we're not liable that's all I can do right and it it was the most amazing experience I just started with the women around me like you said the networking building your community I had military spouses that had kids that were at the high school and when they started sharing with me that their husband came back back from a deployment and they were on meds and they don't leave the room and the shades are closed and they're totally depressed and you know that's the thing was would they like a boat ride can we get them out on a boat maybe for some fresh air with the family just to change the scene a little bit and their eyes would light up like okay I'll go ask and next thing we were
42:15 setting up dates I brought caregivers on the boat like all those spouses that are taking care of their 100% service disabl vets that like literally they can't even function without their P their wives doing a schedule like that level it took like half a year I think to schedule that boat ride because someone was always like nope my husband needs me can't make it but when we took them out and I got those little card thank you cards back just thanking me and just simple handwriting like what it meant for their family that's when I realized this was needed we're on to something we're going to keep doing it so we did that for about three years and then thank God my husband was on board the Vets would get on ship with him on ship
42:50 on the boat and then they would end up in the Cy cabin with my husband so they have all this like veteran camaraderie talk and then I was more back with the the wives and the kids I had local communities sponsoring stuff so one lady would show up with uh donuts and coffee for us if it was a morning thing I just literally walked into B small businesses said hey I I'm taking out veterans would you like to be a part of it Jimmy John's I think there was a new Jimmy John's that had opened up so no problem they said he said made me like five or 10 sandwiches for our outing and I took it on the boat yeah so the community can get involved too so we did that and then
43:25 I said well why doesn't he do fishing fing Charters you will call it fishing with a purpose because he's already spent all this money for his Captain's licensing he went to the maritime Institute in San Diego to learn even how to do plot charting plot charting and stuff like that I mean he literally told me like you're a distraction like can you tell if I'm in the space with him you should see us together like we we make things happen but it's fun and chaotic so he's like I need to focus on this school thing I'm moving into the barracks in San Diego and I'm doing this thing for two weeks I'm getting it done you know back to school Bo and I'm what this been aart in a while like what do you mean you're going to leave me for two weeks this is too much and I'm
44:01 thinking like Vanessa remember you would be gone for nine to 10 months apart you can do this you right so that was funny I was like Panic like leave me for two weeks so he went did that he got all these certifications before we even started taking people out and then we added on the fishing charters and after three years we actually built something like on Google people were calling us a couple two three times a month hey we're coming from Alabama we're veterans or we read that you're veterans you serve veterans we want to fish on your boat you're Christian we don't want any craziness on the boat like we have kids we want to come fish with you so this whole thing developed evolved and by like year four then the pandemic ww like
44:36 shut us down overnight and that's where the regrouping came for you know we happened to rent our house out found a you Sprinter van and off we went into the sunset and started the van life Journey so with that I started to do a lot of self-growth everything was shut down you couldn't go to restaurants nobody was communicating everybody was isolated and I realized I had some work to do on myself myself because I still was living with that mindset that mentality of being a dependent I bring back that story of getting married you know the baby the courthouse and that dependent ID that has been with me my whole almost adult life I look at that
45:11 card it's a brown card I might have changed color I think it went white now and every what three to five years for the wives you have to go and reapply too I'm like why can't I have mine as long as his 10 20 years they're like well statistically you know the wives don't laugh that's why they make you go when every five seven years to check a box they're still married in fact we were camping where in Alaska and Canada over the summer well they sent that seven-year letter I guess to the vets that we didn't know was coming in the mail asking if you're still married so he never checked the Box we're off you know fishing with the uh fishing in the keenai peninsula trying to save ourselves from the bears that are trying
45:46 to share our fish it was a whole different world and um meanwhile I'm dropped off the disabil the the dependent ID thing you know we come back we're getting going through mail and we see the letters like we tried you know with one letter really like in businesses you call you text you try different ways but one letter didn't check the box I was out so it took us six months we had to get our Florida Congress or Governor involved with VA support to try to get me back on but I've been a dependent so long with that ID that it kind of made me fit into that mold of feeling smaller like I'm just a dependent just tell me what to do where
46:22 to go I don't have my own thoughts I'm a dependent I need to be dependent on something I need to dependent on my man I need to be dependent on everything and then through that growth and leaving the military that's why I have the flower now too for my business like helping military spouses Bloom wherever they're planted you know peeling like wall flow on the wall peeling off because we're not in the military anymore guys we can have a voice we can stand taller we can speak up all those times don't sh no fraternization whatever it doesn't matter anymore so going through that Journey with my identity shift it's like what am I now I I still have that dependent but I look at it differently
46:59 Kevin I don't go everywhere looking at my ID going I'm a dependent and you know what can I get for free and all that I'm I'm looking at it as a resource gets me on the base get me you know save two cents on my milk but I'm branching into being more independent so in fact I even just was in an article I I um wrote an article for the military spouse what was it called entrepreneur guide and the article I wrote about was all about having alone time tips for alone time in a healthy military marriage so I've been so dependent on my husband to the point where I mean yeah our kids would see it too and my daughter she got older she
47:35 would make comments like wow like you don't really think much for yourself and you just whatever dad wants to do and now it's like it's a shift it's a little like he's meeting a new wife too now because I'm not we're not on active duty anymore so it's like what's Vanessa getting into now what's Vanessa up to like even right now he's like what's your day I'm like I have this podcast I'm doing this he's like I'm going fishing so he's in the canal on a canoe doing what he loves and I love love love being with him almost all the time we're in tight spaces between the boat and the van life it's great for marriage therapy I'd say too if you're having trouble with your spouse do that but um to have that tight space together that's
48:10 marriage building that's learning how to work around each other in a tight space and keep the peace all that so and I love to go fishing hunting with him all that I mean he taught me how to sh shoot with a bow and arrow haven't shot my own deer yet but we've got venison Filled from Ohio from his brother's houses where they have property when we pass through there and my husband's caught each one of those you know we don't just kill stuff I tell people too like when he's fishing if it's too small he follows the rules he throws it back in the water bow hunting he prefers the bow hunting not the easy shooting like it's got to have a challenge and only go for the big bucks and leave the dough and like so I've learned his whole world you know what sparks him and what he's
48:46 excited about and I love to meander in and out of it but I don't need to do it 247 all the time so it's the whole learning and expressing communicating to him like I have some things that I might want do that you know are maybe not with you all the time and you know like I want to go this conference I went to and I was away for a weekend and he's just this is new to him like my wife's just gonna pick up and go what is this I'm like yeah I'm creating my own independence from that dependent ID that's hung on to me my whole life so that's led me to working with military spouses as a life coach helping Mentor them with their transition because I'm two steps ahead of that and I've helped
49:21 people either virtually or I might I meet people in in person too we were at a Fourth of July and she became a client for like about a year she was not only a military female military veteran but also a spouse so she had both sides of it had just had all kinds of Trauma from her background that she was still working through um two abusive marriages with guys she married in the military some officer who was um what franzinger to rape the girls like giving them ultimatums if they didn't do this and that for them for him they couldn't leave the base so she didn't leave a base in one of her stations for months
49:57 because she wasn't going to partake just to get Liberty Duty right so I learned a lot about that through her but we worked through that you know she was attracting the wrong men in her life so she's cleared so much of that stuff from the past and it was just a a blessing that I connected with her in that Journey now she's also completed her medical certification she wants to go her big dream is to go back to Germany and work with dood dear something in the medical field because she went there as a spouse years ago did not have a good experience she was locked up again in her house she was beaten she had no connection with the community it was just a horrible
50:33 horrible way to go to Germany and you know experience a foreign country so she wants in her big dream to go back there and recreate that scene and make it hers and own it and you know do stuff in the medical world so those are the kind of people that you know end up working with and helping women with um getting connected more to Nature with their five senses because of the van life we've done this for five years it was supposed to to start off as like two months in the van during the pandemic my's like we'll do this for a month or two we'll get settled and almost a year later the world was still on lockdown so we had no rush to go anywhere you know we almost
51:08 settled in Montana briefly but I'm like trying to remind him it's cold most of the year you know it was August we were there and the deer were through watch sunsets down these valleys and I'm like it's really nice in August honey but no I asked the local how's it in the winter she told me brutal so yeah mov it on not doing that so we ended up in Florida um as our I call it our fob our Ford operating base so when people ask where we are like we come and go maybe from Florida and it could be across country it could be you know the Baja beaches of Mexico my mom said take me to Alaska before I die so we got that in but I have built in a business that I can move
51:43 around with I'm a digital Nomad I didn't really know that what that word was before but now I'm living it so yeah I'm nomadic which you started off saying I was in a nomad with uh even the state department and then I lived n was actually they have a book called the nomads of ner and they're like whole tarig uh group of people that literally live nomadic and they have no home they set up their tents wherever they go and they take care of livestock and people in villages with all their agricultural needs as they're passing through so that's kind of how they trade going on people's property on land they're taking care of things along the way but they're
52:19 the nomads and and I'm a digital Nomad we still still have that life of movement around but we create our own schedule we have that freedom of movement no one tells us where to go what to do and as long as I have my internet my starlink whatever I can set that up and I can Empower other women I'm building a whole uh building Community like you say I missed that camaraderie and I noticed yesterday when we were talking with spouses we missed that online space together where we can just share support vent whatever so I have that going and a weit list going for military spouses that want to join that Community I have a a private Facebook group for military spouses
52:54 where they can go and just have that space to connect where you know nobody else can maybe understand their world and then what I've added on with that too is I've noticed that um the finances aren't really set up too it's so sad when people get out of the military and they're working in Lowe's or wherever I mean I was meeting one lady on LinkedIn and I was like can we set up a calendar call or whatever Zoom call and she wrote it was heartbreaking this is a woman who served in the military and she said no I'm sorry I'm working at a strip at the strip club tonight I need to make money for my kid I don't have time to meet with you and I'm like working at the
53:29 strip joint so where women end up I hear stories you know they end up working at the night shift of the gas station you know like maybe especially if they were a female military veteran these were veterans too so they had Trauma from there and they don't like she said yeah I like the night shift because I don't have to talk to people I don't have to associate with anybody it's quiet so there's a reason that you know our veteran females or some of them are going into this path but I want them to thrive and shine in retirement and you know live their dream and find what works for them and I've noticed with that financial side what's missing too is the VA disability claim so that's
54:05 what I've mentioned you before and that's what I focus on a lot of my time with now helping vets with their VA disability claim when they are stuck uh these are I work I'm an affiliate for a company called remed We're very transparent you can go Google It Whatever see their reviews and uh I'm an affiliate for them and what we do is we help claims that already have service connected disabilities and we see if they qualify for a rating increase so there's the initial claim process like some vets have not even set up that paper work you know you can go to your American Legion your VFW maybe your local vsso office get that initial
54:41 claim going and I'll do a a complimentary consultation with any veteran to talk about where you are in that process but get that claim going get your intent to file date going all this stuff and then we help people that have service connected so I collect some you know crucial paperwork from them to to it's like math you're looking at the numbers okay what's lining up what can we maximize what is already maxed out and they have that phone call or Zoom call with me we go over that and then it's up to them if they want to continue the process alone if they have an open claim it's kind of Hit or Miss if we take them on sometimes we want the claim process to go through first get that
55:17 that rating letter from the VA you know decision letter they call it to see did they get the increase did they get denied and then take it up from there once in a while we might do our claim along with the VA claim they've already had opened but um yeah I've got testimonials it's a it's a process but we're there to hold their hand so they're not doing it alone they helped my husband about seven or eight years so I've been on the other side of this that's why I'm so such an advocate for it they helped us through that process of clicking on the VA website going Dearing the headlights like where do you click I have no idea what I'm looking at just so much information and they broke
55:52 it down in baby steps and they were on the phone on with us on like a speaker phone so the wife was included and I could talk with them too and the veteran it was just a beautiful process so that's why I'm I'm working with REM medical and when they get to the other end it's just rewarding to see them get that disability rate and they were working on their own right now I think the VA is about uh they say like five to seven years out when people are doing their own claims and then you might get a denial imagine waiting five years getting a denial letter and then kind of starting over so our process is maybe about four months or so so you know yeah
56:28 people can do it on their own and suffer and beat their head in fact I just got a text yesterday from a vet who was trying to beat his head against the wall doing it himself and he just wrote and said can we talk I'm I'm done doing this alone so yeah we're gonna reach out and and make it happen for him hopefully but that's what I do I help uh with veteran claims I help with the military spouses either oneon-one or group setting and it brings me uh joy to do to be a part of that in my local Community I just started volunteering with the military Heritage Museum I can see you loving that place Kevin if you ever come to FL
57:03 it's filled from they have Gallery rooms Filled from the Revolutionary War all the way to present times so of course I get to the present times it shows pictures of soldiers that look like my husband with the desert Camis and they have the the ID explosion Blast you know image stuff and tires like I feel like I'm with him listening to all that stuff that went on there so that's where I can people and have more input because I was a spouse during that time but everything is laid out from Revolutionary War on and people donate the most amazing artifacts we' even got weapons from um Japan um Germany France I know where to
57:39 point them on the wall and where they are now they just set up they have a virtual reality thing so you can either go through like a room clearing some other Med medical evacuation thing and then of course landing on the moon I did the landing on the moon with my husband the other day to Apollo and um on the apoll follow and they've got a little shooting range thing in there so there's guys that volunteer just to show the shooting range so of course I went up he's like do you have any experience I'm like my husband takes me here and there I have a lot of work to do but he saw how I picked it up he saw he's like oh oh wow yeah you've got some and my husband's right them like yeah he's retired Marine he
58:14 show here and there so and then they have H also uh what do they call it no the landing craft you could do virtual reality flight flight school flying so they the simulators uhuh simulator flight simulator thank you and uh so they have the vets that are volunteering all sitting there and it's so cute I mean some of them are in their like 80s and 90s some have flown some not but they want to work in that space or they've invested money in that space to donate so this is their baby and they have a pointer and they're like which what what do you want to fly so you could fly helicopter all the way my husband picked
58:49 a fighter jet and they take you on a 20 minute simulation thing and you you've got the pedals there and they're telling you what buttons to press and you're taken off from a Runway and fascinating but yeah I could I'm spending more and more time there and I got my husband and he's like you know what this is actually a pretty cool place they have a theater where they do concerts and events we just had a Vietnam veterans ceremony so I was a part of that they do colors they have a the mayor came and did a presentation so this is a public space that um it's a nonprofit and they've been working on building it for like the last five years they used to be in a different location so they've expanded
59:24 now and the donations that people gave to the physical artifacts and stuff it's amazing too the uniform donations the parachute that turned into a wedding dress that had you know maps on the back from Vietnam I mean crazy stories but yeah that's that's the space I'm doing and I'm gonna be there in November we're having uh what is it Veterans Day and I'm actually gonna be running the whole an art theme project where we're gonna have a an exhibit area outside of the theater where they going to do the ceremony and I'm going to be engaging with veterans I've already talked to the curator we're going to put it out there to have veterans that want to show love and experience through artwork so they
60:00 can paint they can whatever medium of art they have they can share it they can participate in it they can put it in this on pegboards and in the space we're going to have in a hallway and then after the ceremony people can come and talk to these veterans about their artwork and um gain more insight you know and just build community the community thing again I'll be there with my book as well so the I love you and I love me again it's all about selfworth and you know honoring yourself and if you don't love yourself you can't love other people so lot it's it's about 20 authors in that book everybody's got a few pages there's QR codes so you can click and hear my voice of speaking
60:36 there's visuals there's picture so we we got number one in a few categories in Amazon but this is really important to me and I'm glad I could write I love me like yeah I want to be a part of that I love me because I'm rattling it off there's some people that can't even write that chapter yet they're working on themselves still they're like I'm not loving me I've got this wrong and this and whatever hangup they have so so we want everybody to get to the stage of I love me because when you love yourself you can love other people you can have spread love and light and and just um show up more alive show up and thrive in whatever season you are in your life so that's kind of a what's going on with me
61:12 I can keep going but I'm gonna take a pause and let you reflect for a second yeah no and and and um unfortunately that that actually that that takes us to the to the end of the hour here you know a couple of things struck me as you were talking one of them is um when you were putting together you know the outings on the boat and you went to the small businesses and and said hey would you you know would you do this or that and I think one of one of the challenges that um veterans and and people getting out of the military have is is um they they hear how much our fellow citizens you know support us or
61:49 support what we're doing and And yet when they get out they feel like they don't and and I I try to explain to them that um we need to help our fellow citizens understand how they can help us because they really don't know it's it's not a lack of wanting to it's it's just they they don't know they don't inhabit our world um you know even now less than 2% of the American population have ever served in the military ever and and so we're just we're we have the obligation to sort of
62:25 help them trans translate what what how how we can be helped number one and number two we we can't go military on them because they don't understand that it's it would be like going to China and speaking English actually worse than that because at least in China they probably understand English but you know when we talk to them about you know M spouse or this or that they they have they have no idea the language mean it's it's completely opaque for them I mean one of my favorite examples is you know after World War II um if you told someone that oh man
63:03 that that that's that's a Navy e job almost everybody knew what that meant because it was so um um people knew that the Navy e was the E for excellence that ships earned and so it was part of of of just the gal of the times um but you couldn't use that phrase now people would have no idea what that Navy e i no Navy is na v y you you saying when I hear E I hear listed that's because that was my world right
63:38 right exactly so so you know we've got to learn to speak civilian we can't sit back and expect our fellow citizens to learn to speak military they're just there's just they're not going to and there's no way for them to really right right I love how you bring that up at the end and I have a resource for you too actually there's they're on LinkedIn they're on Facebook it's called women who lead there's a woman named Kathy gallowitz she is the founder of Veteran Vanguard and that's her mission to help bridge the gap between civilians who
64:14 might want to help veterans but they don't know how and have the veteran perspective and it's right mainly female military veterans we've got military spouses in the group like myself and also just champions for veterans those are the civilian side talking with her um at somean Vanguard rings a bell with me but you know we as as as people who help our our you know military colleagues transition I think we need to keep that uppermost in our head so I'll I'll I'll I've related I haven't related the story in a long long time but I I I feel like I I need to um I back when I first got out
64:51 of the military I was helping people transition and I did a project where I spoke to over a hundred um either currently serving military people who were transitioning out or people who had already TR transitioned out I was speaking to a Navy chief petty officer one day and kind of going through my questions and um and I one of my questions is you know what is what is making it difficult for you to achieve your postmilitary goals he said well he says you know you hear a lot about how civilians want want to help us but they they really don't they they don't really
65:27 care about us I said 'well why do you why do you think that and he saidwell they they pay a lot of lip service but when it really comes to helping us they they just they just don't and he said they're really they're just a bunch of liars and and he said a lot of you know horrible things like that so I so I said to him well let me ask you this if a civilian person um wanted to join the military and they said to and you were a military recruiter and they said all sorts of horrible things about the military would you recruit them and he
66:05 said no not a Chance wouldn't let them in and I said well so I'm wondering why should civilians let you into their world when you have such a dim view of civilians his answer was incredibly telling he said because I'm right and and and this is fell who'd been unsuccessful in transitioning he he'd been at it for three three or four years I think at that point and that was why right I mean if if we're going to treat our our fellow Americans as you know bad as liar whatever whatever you
66:41 know we're well why would they want to embrace us I mean that's yeah it just makes no sense so I think you know we we've we've got to understand that that in in the end we still have to help ourselves you know what I it is a weird thing the the military in some ways kind of makes us very dependent because they take care of so much for us and yet we have to be so strong and so directed and so we've got we we need to continue to be strong and directed without that
67:16 dependency we've got to then shoulder that additional burden Independence yeah Independence like you were talking about I was just taking the spouse side but same for the veteran yeah it's the same it's yeah it's kind of a transition I think all mil children too by the way and we we didn't really talk about children that that could be a a topic for another day but for children to um transition too is is very very difficult and they get even less attention I think than spouses do who who get almost no attention right so it's it's a it's a it's it's a very complex subject but you know what what I think is is great is is
67:53 you know your experience and your ability to articulate how you have succeeded how you continue to grow and develop and and and most especially to keep your marriage vital I I think is an amazing example um of of that because U you know a lot of us I mean I I didn't make it you know my my marriage fell apart not not through frankly lack of trying on my part but there were you know circumstances that that were involved um but it's it's it's
68:30 really hard and it takes both people to really be committed to it and if and if they're not it it's it's not going to endure and yet um taking a marriage that has lived through a milit military life and bringing it into the civilian World intact I think can be the most power powerful um factor in In Living a you know a life worth living postmilitary if you will you know to continue on that
69:05 journey together so I really I really salute you for uh you know for accomplishing that you you and your husband so appreciate that acknowledgement thank you Kevin yeah welcome well so that's that's going to wrap it up for us today and and indeed for for this week and and Vanessa thank you so much for coming back and and you know hopefully we can you know kind of check in on on a kind of a regular basis and and I you know I'd love to hear um you know how how things go with um the the museum and and
69:41 your um you know your Veterans Day um celebration and and and and those kind of things so uh but uh yeah you know in the meantime I I I I wish you all the the best with that um and by the way I'm not gonna let you jump off because there's someone I need to connect you to after uh after we sign off so but but but thank you very very much so folks for all of you who are viewing thank you for joining us um I'm not even going to say I hope you got something out of it because I can't imagine you you saw this without without getting greatly inspired
70:17 as well as really hearing um what we call in Hebrew the EMS the truth this is you know this is the most important thing sometimes the truth is hard to hear um but but Vanessa really presents it in a way that it can just it just slides into our Consciousness and and and can become part of us moving forward so um I I I'm I'm sure that that that happened for you as well so just real quickly next week Monday 10: am Pacific time is trust and Estates weekly on Tuesday 10: a also Pacific time is
70:53 business lessons from the military and then 7 days from today we'll be back for the next edition of people making money I thank you very much for watching have a wonderful rest of the day and a terrific rest of the week and signing off as I always do Marie darling you are my bell all the best folks