0:00 Getting the big check can feel like the finish line, but whether the money changes your life for decades or quietly disappears may depend on what you do in the first days and months after it arrives. Who are you and [music] where are you going? What do you want?
0:35 >> Hello and welcome to People Making Money. I'm your host Kevin Beaml and I'm here every Wednesday to talk about finding a job or job hunting and being an employee, starting and running a business and building wealth. So the whole financial side of our lives and today the topic is uh sudden wealth slow decisions um how not to lose a windfall. So you've you've perhaps heard or even seen statistics about uh people who win the lottery and how after five years the va
1:11 for the vast majority of them all the money is gone. uh it it's just it seems shocking but uh you know I can tell you as someone who works uh with with people who gain wealth that there there there is a tendency to use it and for people who uh did not grow up uh learning how to deal with wealth it is it is very a very significant uh challenge and so I wanted to talk a little bit about that
1:46 today. Uh you may be in the beginning of your career um and and hoping that you're going to do well over the succeeding decades. You may be in the midst of building a business and hoping to have that big payout at the end or you may be, you know, maybe you just got the big payout. what what whatever your stage of life I think these are important uh issues for you to uh about which you should think and and I would say by the way that just because you're you know perhaps just getting started that doesn't mean you shouldn't be thinking
2:22 about the answers to some of these questions because they may very well impact how you run your professional life uh from from here on out. So, as is my practice on the show, I have five thoughts on this topic. Um, and and they they come out of, I think, misconceptions that I've noticed uh from from people who who get a big payout. And the first one is uh the money is here. Now, I need to put it to work, right? And my my when I was a a little
2:57 kid, you know, I was very antsy. You can probably see I I stand when I do these shows, so I'm always kind of moving around. And I I I'm still antsy. My mother would say you have ants in your pants, right? It's like, well, yes. I mean, to a certain extent, we all do. So, it you know, the the this there's this idea that once a windfall arrives and whether it's from selling a business or getting an inheritance or a large bonus at work or some kind of, you know, stock compensation or whatever is or a legal settlement, whatever, whatever the source, right? The smartest move is to immediately invest it in something or
3:34 buy something or or make some kind of financial decision. Almost never is that the right thing to do. The the real the question is what is the first thing you should do after you get the big check? And the answer to that is almost always nothing that's irreversible. Okay? And by the way, that could include buying a house because buying a house it may seem, well, I can always sell the
4:09 house. Well, but there are there are costs inherent in buying a house and having to sell it quickly thereafter, right? There's all the fees and you know, brokerage fees, etc. for doing that. Not to mention moving and and the disruption to your life. So for most situations, probably 99% of situations, the first thing to do after getting the check is nothing. Put the money somewhere safe where it's liquid. Maybe, you know, these days you can put it into a CD or, you know, a money
4:46 market account and at least get a few percent interest. so you're not losing ground to inflation and then take some time to figure out what am I what am I going to do with this? How is this going to change my life? Right? So the the the sort of um anxiety that having the money can create create is sometimes overpowering. I've got to do something with it. fight that uh that that that
5:22 desire and just set the money aside. You you know up until now you've been living without this, you know, big check. Continue to do it at least for a little while. So there's there's a couple of ways you can work this out. One is to create kind of a a decisionfree zone. And that's and that's why I say put the money in some kind of safe, fairly liquid investment while you develop a plan. You're not going to leave it there forever. You're just going to put it there for now. Okay? You don't have to worry about, you know, something
5:58 happening to the money. It's there. God forbid an emergency happens, you'll be able to get some of it and handle the emergency. But now, for now, you know, avoid changing your house and your car and your investments and your gifts and and and and your lifestyle simply because you have a a much larger bank balance. Rather, give yourself permission to learn what being wealthy actually means. And it that the meaning is different for
6:33 different people because we have different things. We have different desires in life. We have different responsibilities, right? So, we've got to figure that out. And as much as you've thought about it beforehand, and hopefully you have, now that it's there, even if you're pretty sure you know you want to do, take the time to review that plan in light of the reality of the money. and then start executing on it. Right? So there's a there's a psychological transformation that happens when when
7:10 you know a large windfall fall comes in. So before a big check comes in, it may seem like you know $100,000 is a huge amount of money, right? [snorts] And then someone gets a, you know, a windfall. they they sell a business and they get, you know, $20 million and all of a sudden $100,000 doesn't seem so much anymore, right? It's like there's there's lots of $100,000 in $20 million. There is in fact 200 of them, right? And so we, you know, we we need to take the
7:45 time to kind of set our level again, okay? and not not let ourselves be um seduced into thinking that oh you know uh I I I I'm at this whole new level now not really not really especially not quickly right so this is one of the re ways that large amounts of money fortunes disappear is is people get caught in this sort of psychological transformation in their perception of money and they start
8:20 spending, you know, spending big chunks of money um in the way that they formerly would have, you know, spent maybe much smaller amounts and all of a sudden that big check is gone, right? So the the the the key takeaway here is is um first learn what a what a windfall uh first um I should say first figure out a plan for how you're going to handle the windfall and avoid expensive mistakes. Okay? Especially expensive mistakes that
8:56 can't be fixed. Okay? So, uh, number one, kind of take your time. Don't don't rush into anything. Okay. Number two, this is another, uh, you know, common, uh, uh, misconception, and that is, well, I I I have $5 million, so now I'm worth $5 million. Not necessarily, right? I was talking to a colleague of mine and he has a client who uh is one of the beneficiaries of
9:32 the SpaceX um public offering and he got a payout of um I don't remember what the exact number is. I think it's around $80 million. That's a huge amount of money. Here's the rub. He's not worth $80 million. First of all, he has to pay taxes on that. And the taxes are enormous. He's almost like something like $30 million in taxes, right? So you say, "Well, he still has 50 million left." Well, yes, he does, but 50 million is not the same thing as 80 million. Okay?
10:08 So the amount of the windfall is not the amount that you actually have available to spend. And so the question is, what really are you going to have? that's yours. Okay? So, and it really depends on from where the money comes. So, if you sold a business, there's probably going to be taxes due on the sale of that business. Now, depending on how the transaction was structured, the taxes may be payable all in the year that you
10:43 sold the business, they may be spread out over time. You know, again, it depends how the deal is structured. [snorts] If you're getting an inheritance, the gross value of the estate, even if you're the sole heir, is not what you're going to get. Okay? Even if the estate is not subject to estate taxes, there are costs of administration, there are uh costs of operation. Okay? the the estate may not have to pay estate taxes, but if it takes longer to
11:19 close than a year or if I should say if it doesn't close within the calendar year of the time period that that the uh deedent died. So the estate may need to file an income tax return for succeeding years and may have to pay taxes on the income that it generates. So all of these things can change the amount that heirs or even an heir will actually inherit. Right? So you have taxes, transaction costs, there may be debts
11:54 that have to be paid. There could be other kinds of obligations. There may be some charitable commitments that that need to be made. For example, in an estate, maybe there are certain bequests. you're the sole heir, but there are bequests to charities, right? There could be deferred payments and other liabilities that have to be settled that mean in the end, while you know, we'll go back to the example of selling a business, you sold the business for $20 million, but you know, after all of the taxes and transaction costs and and settling of
12:31 debts, etc., maybe there's only going to be $10 million left. Now again 10 million is still a nice sum of money but it's not the same as 20 million. Okay. So the real starting point in creating a new lifestyle is to understand how much is actually going to be left at the end of the day. And again you have taxes that may have to be payable and then when are those taxes due? Are you going to have to make estimated tax payments in the future because of this? Are there debts to be settled? Um, is
13:09 all the money actually liquid? So, if it's an estate, maybe some of the money is in, you know, stocks and bonds, but maybe some of it is in real estate. So, in order to get the money out of the real estate, the property would have to be sold, right? So, it may not be immediately available. And while you know the typical estate will have a house and houses are still selling relatively well these days maybe there's a bunch of vacant land in the estate and vacant land oftentimes doesn't sell particularly quickly depending on where it's located right so and there are
13:45 other types of assets that are even less liquid than real estate there could be art or collect collectibles or something like that so all of that needs to be looked at and um are there continuing obligations associated with the transaction? Okay. Um so maybe the business is sold um but you know you have an obligation to remain on the board of directors for a certain period of time um and there are some you know travel costs with doing that or whatever. I'm just, you know,
14:20 giving you ideas off the top of my head, right? And then, so the bottom line is you need to work with competent legal uh accounting and tax and financial professionals to help you understand what what are you really going with what are you really going to end up and then how can that change your lifestyle? not how will it, how can it, what are what are some of the options? I'll talk about that um a little bit in in another minute or so. Okay. So,
14:56 the real challenge is to convert this lump sum into susta a sustainable economic situation. Right? So, a multi-million dollar bank account is not the same thing as a multi-million dollar income. Okay? The income from $5 million might be, you know, if you get a 10% return, $500,000 a year. That's a nice income, but that's a lot different than $5 million a year.
15:32 Okay? This is this this is a mistake that people often they trap themselves into. They get a big one-time payout. They dramatically increase their lifestyle and then after a year or two they can't sustain it anymore. Right? I used to see this in in in the Navy by the way. Uh when I w worked with a submarine squadron, uh these young uh sub submariners would get pretty large uh bonuses to to reinlist like $100,000. Okay. Now, the Navy had spent over a
16:08 million dollars training them. And so it was worth it to the Navy to pay $100,000 to get them to reinlist. And often times they would go out and do some and they they were young generally speaking at the time of reinlistment in their early 20s, right? They So I would see like I remember one young sailor he reinlisted. He got a a $100,000 bonus. And a couple days later, I see him driving up in a Mercedes S-Class car [laughter] and he had spent the signing bonus on
16:44 buying the car. Here's the problem. his his salary, his income as um I think he was an E3 or four was not enough to pay to live and also pay the insurance and maintenance on the car. So he very quickly ended up having to sell the car and of course he had to sell a used car, right? He couldn't get out anything close to the amount of money for which he had paid for the car. I what what a what a shame, right?
17:19 uh I mean as even as a chaplain I spend a lot of my time doing financial counseling [snorts] uh because that's one of the you know lack of financial literacy is is very common among among service members right so you know when you when when we're dealing with a windfall we need to think about okay what is sustainable right now you may make a one-off purchase maybe you will you You will buy a nice car, but what is the cost of sustaining that car and how
17:55 does that work relative to what you spent to buy the car and what kind of sustainable economic situation will you have? Okay, so those are the kind of things that you know I encourage you to think about. So don't build a temporary lifestyle, I mean a permanent lifestyle around a temporary account balance. Okay? You know, bad plan, right? So So uh that's that's number two. I that's the best way I can put it. Don't build a permanent or a seemingly permanent lifestyle around a
18:31 temporary balance. Okay. Number three, um another misconception. Now I have money, I can afford to help everybody or I can help people, right? So for a lot of people, they get a big chunk of money and they think this means you can or maybe even should solve other people's financial problems, especially if they're family members and friends. So here's here's the question, right? How do you become generous
19:09 without becoming everybody's bank and without you know destroying your own financial position right so when you get a kind of windfall amount of money it changes more than your bank balance the fact of the matter is it changes relationships okay so requests at first may be small. Oh, some help with tuition or, you know, a down payment for a car or would you help me pay off this credit card? You know, it's
19:44 only $5,000 or would you invest in my business, right? All of these, they all may be valid requests, right? But complying with the requests can change the relationship you have with the person who asked you for the help. Okay? Especially if they start expecting you to help anytime they ask, right? And so what what what ends up being created is a very financially and emotionally difficult situation.
20:21 So before handing starting to hand out checks, right? Establish kind of a a a generosity policy, if you will, right? And do this before the requests arrive or if they have already started to arrive, let people know, hey, I let let me give this some thought. I have to get this figured out. You know, I I just got the check, you know, last week or whatever it is. Um, I'll I'll let you know. So, make make some decisions. Make and make this part of the plan. Talk to your financial
20:57 advisors uh about this, but how much are you comfortable giving each year? That that's an important uh decision to start with. And then, you know, whom are you willing to help and for what purposes, right? Are you willing to help people, you know, further their education or their professional prospects? Are you willing to help people go on nice vacations? Are you willing to help people with day-to-day expenses? And there there's no right or wrong answer to any of this. It really comes down to what you personally decide and what you
21:34 can actually afford to do, right? So decide are you going to make loans or are you just going to give people the money? Right? I have a general policy for myself and that is if a friend asks me for money, if I can afford to give them the money, I do so without an expectation of repayment. Even if they tell me this is just a loan, I will repay you. I don't consider it I don't consider it a loan. It's like because I don't want to get into a situation with a a family member or friend where they say to me, "Well, I you know, I I know I
22:09 said I was going to call pay you back, but I, you know, things are really tough." And it's like, "Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I understand. Just when you can, you will, or if you can, you will, but don't but don't worry about it. Don't let it cause any strain between the two of us." when I gave you the money, uh, it was with the expectation that it, you know, if you could pay it back, you would, but there but I was never going to press you for the money. Now, that's just, that was just a policy that I developed really decades ago now. And and and I've never had a conflict
22:45 about money uh with uh, you know, w with a friend or relative as a result. But and I'm not saying therefore you should adopt that policy, but just food for thought, right? So um consider whether uh you know a gift should come from kind of a defined pool rather than you know being decided kind of emotionally anytime you're asked. So maybe, you know, at the beginning of each year, you set aside, you know, whatever it is, $100,000, you know, or $50,000 or $10,000. This is my generosity fund.
23:23 Okay? And, you know, twice a year, I'm going to look at the things, you know, that um the requests that people have given me and I'm going to figure out how much I'm going to give them. Something like that. Okay, that may sound awful. No, that's that's really cold and businesslike. Well, maybe maybe. But it is a way to really be able to evaluate how can I do the most good with the money that I have? How can I assure myself that I'm really going to be helping people as opposed to just sort of feeling an emotional tugging? Okay, I'm going to write you the check. and and then you
23:59 end up feeling perhaps you know bitter or disgruntled or or or or taken advantage of because you know it you end up you know giving away a lot more money than you intended to. Okay. So and and then always and I I I've I've already mentioned this several times get professional advice about the tax and and estate planning consequences of what you're doing. Okay? giving somebody money, especially if it's a a larger amount of money, it may have tax consequences on them. It may have tax
24:35 consequences on you, and you don't want these things sort of lurking in the background, and there's all this uncertainty about what's going to happen. Okay? So, the the the sort of correlary to this is is money can can create unintended power dynamics. So, you know, you may have family members who are resentful because you did well and they haven't and and they start putting pressure on you to, you know, share the wealth. Well, you know,
25:10 you may have had nothing to do with the fact that that they they haven't done well financially. And just because you have doesn't necessarily mean that you have to share the wealth with with them. You know, maybe they made other decisions about how they wanted to live their lives that meant they didn't make a lot of money. And look, you maybe made some decisions that you were going to sort of, you know, keep your nose to the grindstoneone. You're going to work hard. You're going to build a business, whatever it was. And you know, and and so that's why you were financially successful.
25:45 Neither path is necessarily right, but the fact that you took one path that ended up with wealth and other people didn't doesn't necessarily mean they're entitled to a share even if they're family members, right? But there can be a change of dynamics. Okay? I I see this where when there's uh when when parents pass away and they leave their estate to their children in in uneven shares, right? And so, uh, you know, the person the the the the child getting the smaller share sometimes will feel
26:20 cheated. Well, I mean, look, that has nothing to do with your sibling probably, right? So, I'm not getting equal shares of of my mother's estate as far as I know. That's okay. I don't see her as much. You know, we're not as close as she is to my sisters. That's fine. But in the end, it's her money, right? If she gives me zero, that's okay, too. It's her decision, right? And it has nothing to do, you know, she she likes her better, she likes me better. I mean, we get too
26:55 caught up in this stuff. So, don't let the the influence of money um change or or create seeming power dynamics that are very corrosive to maintaining relationships, right? So the fact of the matter is generosity works best when it has boundaries and that's what you need to set. Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll look at a couple more. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't
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28:08 Okay. Next. Uh so when when when people get a windfall, especially again if they haven't grown up with wealth, there there tends to be this idea that okay, so now I'm wealthy. I need wealthy people's investments, right? So somehow they they get this idea that a larger portfolio, a larger bank account requires that they have more complicated investments. So private
28:43 deals, hedge funds, alternative assets, all kinds of, you know, exclusive kind of investments or um that that are, you know, typically not available to uh ordinary investors. So the question is does having money necessarily mean that your life especially your investing life should become more complicated. That's the real question. Okay. And the answer may be no. [laughter] I shouldn't. I don't want my invest I
29:20 don't want my life to become more complicated because I have this money. Right? things like hedge funds and such, they can be, you know, very complicated and they can cause a lot of anxiety, especially if you don't really understand them that well. You're you're heavily relying on advisors and if you don't understand them, how do you know whether the advisors understand them? Right? So the the idea is simply because you have access to more complex investments doesn't mean that they're
29:56 suitable and that's what counts. Finding investments that are right for you based on the plan that you create is what matters. And oftentimes simplicity is a lot better than complexity. Okay. One of the reasons is complex investments oftentimes have inter additional fees. Sometimes very high fees. Sometimes they can be quite illquid. And if you need to get your money out, you can't. Or if you if you, you know, you absolutely have to get it
30:31 out, it means you're going to lose a significant portion of the invested capital in in order to get out get, you know, the money out of an illlquid investment quickly. There could be tax consequences that you didn't realize. There could be leverage in the investment that causes a a much higher risk than you realize. And sometimes you can have things like concentration risk where being involved in one of these more sophisticated investments because it it requires such a large minimum investment means you
31:06 have to put a lot of your net worth uh or a lot of your assets into that investment. Um and now you're weighted much too high in in in in that you know category and and so you're not sufficiently diversified. So instead of starting with what can the money buy, start with what the money needs to do. Okay? So how much needs to remain liquid so that if you have an emergency, you're able to handle it without, you know, having to resort to credit cards or whatever. Okay. [snorts]
31:42 What are your near-term spending requirements? If if you've determined that you do want to get a new house, for example, what is that what is it going to take to buy that house? And it's not going to be typically just the down payment. You may want to do some renovations. You may want to get some new furniture. They're moving costs. All of these need to be factored in, right? What is your risk tolerance for investments? Now, it's it's it sounds great, you know, when someone's promoting an investment, you're going to make all this kind of money, but what are what is the risk? What is the downside risk? What what are the chances
32:19 you'll lose? How will you feel about it? If you invest a million dollars into something and you end up losing $100,000, how are you going to feel about that? Okay? And by the way, you may have, you know, $20 million and you may and and you might be thinking, well, you know, $100,000 is not that much. It's very different when you actually have that money. Okay? So, $100 is a$100 $100,000 loss is a big loss even for people who have, you know, nine figure net worths. Okay? So we really need to
32:56 to come to grips with with how we really will feel about these things, right? So what portion of it needs to generate an income? Maybe you're not going to be working anymore. Okay? And so to to get involved in a lot of alternative investments maybe many of which do not pay an immediate cash flow means you would be restricting your life which maybe at this point in your your at this point you don't want to do right so how what portion needs to generate an income how much that income need to be right what amount of the
33:34 money is do you want to make ready um not ready but do you intend to give to your heirs or a charity, right? And and then also look at to what risks are you already exposed, right? So before you start taking on additional risks or additional complexity, which oftentimes is itself a risk, look at your current risk situation. Are you at really the limit of where you want to be there? Or maybe not. And maybe you you're comfortable taking on some additional risk, right? and then look for investments
34:11 that fit those jobs. Okay? Don't look for investments just because they're cool or interesting or sophisticated or whatever. Figure out what does the money need to do and which investments will accomplish that. Okay. So it's it's it's a good idea to pay particular attention to this idea of concentration. Now if if the wealth comes from having sold a business. So oftentimes people in that situation they're comfortable with high concentration because that's how they
34:47 made their money. Okay. But having sold their business, do they then you know do you then want to go back into such a highly concentrated wealth position? Maybe, maybe not. Right. And and and the same could be true of an executive who had a big grant of stock options and so a lot of his wealth is tied up in the performance of the company for which he works. Well, at some point, don't you know, do you want to keep all of your wealth concentrated in the company? You may believe 110% in the company. That doesn't mean you want to have all your financial eggs in that basket, right?
35:24 So, you know, the skills needed to create a fortune are not necessarily the same skills needed to preserve it, right? And so, take a look at this, you know, concentration versus diversification situation and figure out where do you need to be? Where is it financially prudent to be? not you know what is going to get your pulse racing when you think about it that kind of thing right so don't confuse
35:59 sophistication with complexity okay you don't need to be sophisticated you don't need to be complex and by the way you can be you can have a sophisticated estate plan that doesn't have complex investments okay it all comes comes down to what is it you're seeking to accomplish and which investments will help you do that job. Okay, that's number four. Number five, a lot of times people think, hey, once I've got a financial plan,
36:35 I'm done, right? So from that perspective, you know, managing a windfall is just it's it's primarily an investment exercise, right? I hire an advisor. I create a portfolio. I complete some estate planning documents and and I can get on with life. Okay. But what happens when the money solves all the problems um that you've spent decades trying to solve? Okay. One of the problems maybe being not having to work or or not
37:11 having to sort of scrape to get by. Right. So this is sometimes I think the least discussed part of a windfall and that is what are you going to do postreceiving the check not with the money that's certain we I've been talking about that okay the financial side of things but what about the life side of things and this is where this is this is where no matter you know what stage of your professional life you are currently at I encourage you to think
37:48 about this. What is the life you want? What does success look like beyond the financial dimension? Right? So for some people having enough money is as big a problem as not having enough money because of the kinds of situations into which they get themselves. Right? So when you've got wealth beyond the financial, how do you define a wealthy life? Is it security? Is it
38:24 freedom from work? Is it the freedom to do different work or or you know work that is maybe more emotionally satisfying than what you did to earn the money? Okay. Is it more time with family? Is it traveling? Is it engaging in some kind of hobby avocation? Is it being involved in philanthropy? Maybe it's starting another business. You know, maybe that is really what you love to do. So wealth is having wealth. It gives you
38:59 options. Okay. But as I've talked about I think many times on this show, we have the paradox of choice. So wealth can give us such a broad range of options, we're stymied when it comes to choosing one or we get caught up in I'm going to try this. Oh, I think I'm going to try this. Like the next shiny thing comes along and we're jumping around trying all this stuff. Right? So it's a good idea to now start thinking about what how do you
39:34 want your life to look? Like ask yourself the question, you know, if I didn't have to do what I'm currently doing, what would I want to do? How would I like to change my life? That may also give you some clues as to what you want to be doing now financially or professionally, right? So financial um independence um is not the same thing as financial permission. So a spreadsheet or a bank balance may say
40:09 hey I can stop working but that doesn't necessarily mean you want to work is very healthy in its own right it gives us things to do people with whom to interact problems to solve places to go right all of that is good for us it keeps us vital it keeps us alive So the fact that you may not have to work doesn't mean that you shouldn't. And this this is a an issue with which I often times have discussions with my
40:44 clients. Okay? A lot of them they don't they don't have to work, right? They have enough money that you know they can quite literally sit around and eat bon bonss and you know watch television all day. Okay? But that's that's not healthy for most of us. Now for some people for various reasons you know they can't be active okay that's that's different they have physical limitations but for most of us we need to be doing something okay and so we need to consider these noninancial aspects as part of our plan
41:20 as to how we handle a financial windfall. So uh you know some closing a couple of closing thoughts. One is um before a windfall, most financial planning seems to focus on accumulation, right? How do I get there? After a windfall, the questions change to preservation, purpose, and choice. Like, what do I do now that I'm here? Right? So the big check may create
41:56 wealth in a day, but turning that wealth into lasting financial security and a legacy that is a lifetime endeavor and it takes considerably more thought and so I encourage you to start giving it that thought now. So, if you look right down below you, you'll see links to social media. Share a thought that you may have. What What is your biggest concern
42:31 about having a financial windfall? And you may be joking like, "Come on, I'm I'm just scraping by right now." Okay? You know, exercise your imagination a little bit. that can help free free you up in a way that will make you more financially successful. Get you thinking about some things um that maybe you can do work-wise or professionally that you hadn't thought about before and share a comment with us if you will. I' I'd be happy to uh to read them and and respond if if you'd like. Okay. Uh so let's see
43:06 real quickly. Schedule of shows Mondays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time. Trust in Estates Weekly. Tuesdays at 10 a.m. Pacific, business lessons from the military. Wednesdays at 10 a.m. Pacific, like today, people making money, and every other Thursday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific time. Join me at Jiggers's Place for a cocktail and a schmoo. And we'll talk about all kinds of things that have nothing to do with finances, like books and movies and relationships and ideas and all of that. By the way, if you know someone, maybe they're headed toward a
43:42 windfall and you you see they're struggling a little bit, maybe send them a link to this episode and perhaps it'll help them out and I'd sure appreciate the opportunity to gain them as a subscriber. And by the way, if you're not a subscriber, uh please do consider subscribing whether you're on YouTube or Spotify or Apple Podcast, any of those platforms, and that way you'll never miss another episode of the Way to Wow shows. So, thank you so much for joining me, wishing you a wonderful rest of the day, and signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell. Correct.