0:01 Who are [music] you? And where are you going? [music] What do you want? [music] Hello and welcome to People Making Money. I'm your host, Kevin Bemmel, and I'm here every Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about job hunting, starting and running a business, and building wealth, all the cornerstones of our financial lives. So, this is the first episode for 2026.
0:38 This marks actually the start of the seventh year of the Way to Wow shows. Uh the fifth in this particular format. the first two years uh were a little bit different and uh you know I [laughter] can't believe that um it's it's it's been that long but you know time flies when you're having fun. So, uh, you know, it's it's, uh, it's good to be back for, uh, for the 2026 se for the for 2026 and and to hopefully be continuing to provide you with the the
1:13 information, the insights um, that that you need in order to make uh, sound financial decisions for you, your families, your loved ones. So, I'm kicking off today. Uh this was an episode that I had originally uh thought to do last year and then I ended up replacing it with uh another topic. And so I'm I'm I realize now just this moment kind maybe starting the year on kind of a down, you know, a downbeat uh topic, but um maybe it's good to start
1:48 the year out with a cautionary tale. Uh oftentimes there's a lot of enthusiasm uh in in uh uh you know dealing with the new year uh and um and and that can be good. It can get us kind of you know rocking and rolling as they say. Um I I know I'm uh one of the ventures in which I'm involved uh we we've been looking to kind of do a um a launch event and the opportunity came up to do one but it only gave us a window of either uh one
2:24 and a half or two and a half weeks to prepare and we were we were scrambling scrambling scrambling and then u unfortunately but also kind of fortunately uh the event got cancelled. And and now that we've really been able to start digging into um a lot of the logistics of of what we want to do, we'll have the opportunity to plan them better to really take a look at what it is we you know we want to do and how is the best way to accomplish it uh and and do that without uh you know kind of all
2:59 the crazy time pressure. So, uh, you know, it it, you know, kind of sad to lose an opportunity on the one hand. On the other hand, maybe, you know, it's it's it it's it's all for the best and it'll set us up for better success as as the year progresses. So today I'm going to be talking about the pitfalls related to uh scaling a business and I'm going to be using the example of crispy cream donuts as kind of a case study. So, I don't know about you, but
3:36 put a dozen of just original glazed crispy cream doughnuts in front of me and turn your back and yeah, they'll probably be gone. [laughter] I mean, they're just, as far as I'm concerned, they're they're the best doughnuts I've ever had, with potentially one exception, and that was this little onestore doughnut shop on the uh uh lower kind of Midtown West in Manhattan that they made these just unbelievable creations of donuts. They were a
4:11 doughnut and ice cream shop of all things. lets you know be still my heart. Um, but you know there you can only get those mid Midtown West. So, uh, you know, I don't have those here in California, but I do have Crispy Cream and um, the Crispy Creams here in Los Angeles anyway are kosher as well. So, even even better, right? So, [clears throat] uh, you know, Crispy Cream Donuts started back in 1939. They've been around a long long no long time. They've been around for they were around for a
4:47 long time uh on the east coast. They started in uh North Carolina, I believe. And so those of us who are West Coasters knew really nothing about them and they they kind of hit the country in a big splash in the early 2000s. And I I know for myself, oh my gosh, I mean, the first time I had a crispy cream doughnut, they just, especially when they're hot, they're, you know, right off of being made, you know, the hot sign is out. And I mean, they just melt in your mouth. You [laughter] know, you can you [clears throat] can as they go
5:23 down your throat, you can feel how bad they are for you, right? The sugar and the butter and everything. But but who cares? They're just they're so amazing. and their their you know hot and fresh uh logo not is not really the the thing but the the the hot and fresh branding uh I mean it was so so great and and indeed you know when that when that light would come on I think the business would increase you know because people go oh you know fresh and I know when I first started going there often times you know
5:59 if you ordered some donuts they would just pull one off of the conveyor belt like literally hot and fresh and hand it to you, you know, in a a wax paper uh you know, sheet sheet. Uh I mean, oh gosh, there is no greater doughnut experience. But um and so that's why um as the 2000s progressed and Crispy Cream started getting into some very severe problems, it was it was so unfortunate for, you know, if if you're if you're at all a Crispy Cream
6:35 afficionado like me, I don't know, are my Crispy Creams going to go away? So,
6:42 >> [snorts]
6:43 >> uh, you know, they they I'm going to talk about some of the mistakes that they made. And, you know, these I think these are sort of cautionary notes for us as we look at our own businesses. Not necessarily because, you know, we're thinking of franchising or doing a big, you know, regional or nationwide or even worldwide expansion. probably most of us aren't. And yet I some of the lessons that we can learn from looking at Crispy Cream's situation
7:18 I think will apply no matter what the size um of our business. So [clears throat] um the the the sort of core problem I think that that Crispy Cream had was the dilution of its brand experience. So, uh, when when they went through this rapid expansion in the early 2000s, many of the new stores just didn't rep replicate that sort of signature hot and fresh experience that made the brand so
7:54 iconic, right? You just, three minutes, whatever. [snorts] I mean, that in the end, that's what Crispy Cream is selling. They're selling that experience. Yes, they sell donuts, of course, but it's it's it's the experience of eating the donuts, I think, that is that is so crucial to a brand and a brand that is iconic like Crispy Cream. So, as the experience became inconsistent across different stores, so customer excitement faded,
8:31 right? And you know, crispy cream has this kind of mystique about it. I you know, if you could be a fly on the window of of the car when my friend Bill and I are driving somewhere and the subject of crispy cream comes up. It's it's like, you know, two guys reliving a rapturous exper culinary experience. It's it's really kind of hilarious. I mean, I'm laughing inside as we're talking about Crispy Cream. who both feel the same way, right? And and to lose that, I
9:06 mean, mystique, I think, is really the right word is to is to really not understand what one's business is all about. And and so it matters because when the the brand experience is weakened for customers, it erodess their loyalty. It reduces their visits and of course that that causes long-term uh revenue potential to at least decline if not collapse. Right? So for any of us
9:43 who have a business, even if we're not, you know, a well-known national brand like Crispy Cream or for that matter an international brand like like McDonald's, right? And and and all all of these sort of storied restaurants, I think, or storied food outlets, whatever you want to call them, I think they all have at one time or another experienced this delilution of the brand experience to their detriment. Now, you know, McDonald's has certainly to digress from McDonald's certainly has experienced it, but you know, they've they've kind of gotten it back and then they lose it a
10:19 little bit, right? That that's kind of that cycle is normal, right? [snorts] What we need to do is understand what is the core um experiential element of our businesses. Okay. So I know for my business the core experience experiential element is the individualized attention that I give to each matter each client
10:56 with whom or on which I on which or with whom I work. Okay. So that that plays through in a number of ways. It plays through in how I look at response times, how I look at how I respond, okay? The quality of the response, the way I write my emails, the way I write my text messages, the way I speak when I'm on the phone, right? It it it it's reflected in the kind of relationships that I um that I have with my clients.
11:31 So, I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was talking to one of my most important clients and at the same time I was picking up my friend Bill. We were going to a meeting. Uh he he he also works uh with the same client. So [laughter] um and he gets in the car and he's like and I can see in his face he's like what are you talking about? And we were talking about just personal stuff. Okay. and and and kind of laughing and kidding each other about that that it's something going on in my personal life. So, uh, and [laughter] you know, and it's a husband and wife and and the
12:07 husband is like giving me this and the wife is like, "No, no, no. This is good for Kevin, you know, kind of thing." And, and at first, Bill was kind of mystified, you know, and then after we I we we kind of conducted the business of the call, rang off, and then I spent explain to him what was going on, right? So it's it's that kind to create those kinds of relationships where we can meet on a human level even as we're dealing with important and actually in this case kind of a a kind of a contentious business situation, right? And
12:43 and so that is the core experience of my business. Okay. So what is the core experience for your business, right? I don't know, you know, if you have a plumbing business, right? So if if if you um think it's Jack Diamond Plumbing here in Los Angeles, their core experience is we show up on time, we're appropriately dressed, we don't smell bad, and we don't mess up your house. Right? So for
13:18 anyone who's had sort of, you know, Joe Schmo plumber come by. Wow, that's a great experience. Okay. So the first lesson out of the the scaling debacle that was Crispy Cream, you know, 20 years ago is we need to understand the core element of our experience and then jealously guard delivering that core experience. Okay, that's number one. Number two, over reliance on franchise revenue. So the way
13:53 Krispy Cream built up its income was by a massive sort of fran a massive and rapid uh buildup in the number of franchises that it had. So the if if you're not familiar with how franchising works, especially for uh as well-known a brand as Krispy Cream. So they can command a big upfront fee from a franchisee just for the opportunity to become the owner of a in this case
14:30 Crispy Cream uh franchised store. Okay. I I can't tell you what the franchise fee is. It's not it's not relevant. U like for something like McDonald's, my understanding is the franchise fee per store is like$1 to2 million or something. So it's it's it's it's very very high just to get your foot in the door. Now, from a revenue standpoint, that's great because Krispy K Cream was pulling in all this revenue from new franchises who were opening new stores. The problem
15:06 is at some point the franchisee growth either has to slow down or stop. Okay? And once it starts slowing down, all of a sudden this one-time revenue from the franchise fees stopped coming in or at least it declined. And revenue from the ongoing sale of donuts and coffee and and you know, whatever else is being sold at the store that that can take time for a a store to build up. And so there's not sometimes
15:43 often and then this is the case with Crispy Cream, there wasn't enough of the recurring revenue in order for to sustain the level of their financial results. Okay. So this was very problematic, right? And and it's again it was one of the things that led to the undoing of Crispy Cream is they started seeing significant revenue drops, right? And for a company that has expanded that rapidly, the opposite would be expected, right?
16:19 If you, you know, double, triple, quadruple the number of stores you have over a certain period of time, people who are who own your stock, uh, um, analysts who are following your stock can could rightly kind of assume that if you're doubling stores, revenue ought to at least double. Okay. Um, but that was not the case with Crispy Creams because they became too reliant on these one-time fees. uh and and because of some other factors that [clears throat] I'll talk about in a few minutes, the fr the new franchises often
16:56 struggled to build up sales. Okay, so you know they they pay their big franchise fee. Okay. But now in order for the company to so you again the way the franchising works is there's a big upfront franchise fee and then there's a percentage of sales that's paid by the owner of a franchise, right? And so in order to to gain through ongoing franchise fees, in essence, uh what Krispy K Cream Corporate got from
17:32 the one-time initial franchise fee, sales had to grow pretty dramatically pretty quickly, and they didn't. The store owners just weren't able to do that. And so again, that's what caused this decline almost a collapse in in revenue. So here's here's the challenge, right? If you're whether you're again have just a you know oneshot business in essence, right? Where is your where is your re from? Where is your revenue coming? Okay. Is
18:08 it a lot of sort of one-time uh you know sources or are there ongoing sources and you see this in all kinds of businesses right? So the software business over the last 20 years or so has really converted from you buy the soft you pay a one-time uh fee or not a onetime fee you make a one-time payment to buy a a software program and then Unless you're going to buy an update, that's it. So that was the model say 20
18:44 25 years ago. Now the model is the SAS model service as a software as a service model where uh you know sometimes you pay even a monthly fee. So um but in in in any event there's sort of a periodic revenue that comes from maintaining the software. Okay. and that smooths out the revenue for a software company, right? So, some businesses are somewhat uh reliant on one-time hits. So, if if one
19:22 looks at the real estate business, for example, on the brokerage side and and and looking at uh residential uh real estate uh to be to be specific. So, you know, a broker gets a listing on a house, he marks the house, finds a buyer, that transaction goes through, the sale closes, he gets his commission check. Okay, now he's got to look for the next listing, right? That's the challenge with that business. Whereas real estate property management, you typically a property owner is paying a monthly fee
20:00 in order to have that property managed. Now a lot of people on the brokerage side they don't like property management because the fees relatively speaking are lower right so they they would rather you know follow the sort of risk riskier model in terms of at least revenue uh and and and and get more money but that's why they get more money right because they're assuming more risk whereas some people prefer the stability of the income that a property management company generates. I know when I had my uh company previous
20:38 to my joining the Navy, I did both. So, I had I had my property management company which which covered the my sort of base uh expenses, if you will, and then I engaged in other things that were more sort of, you know, oneoffs, if you will, right? And those were the big those were the big uh income hits, right? So I did appraisal and consulting in addition and so uh the big amount of revenue came from that but I had the property management revenue to you know cover my basic expenses right so
21:16 when we think about our businesses we need to look at our revenue streams right and how do we strike a reasonable balance between ongoing revenue revenue. Okay. And you know, more sort of oneoff type revenue. That's you know the the franchise fees as a percentage of sales versus the initial franchise fees for a new for a from the owner of a new store uh who's who's you know just bought it bought a new franchise, right? So
21:52 whether we're scaling a big organization or looking at our own, we need to be cognizant that those are both important. Okay. Now, one of the reasons why crispy new newer Crispy Cream store owners struggled to grow their sales so that the ongoing percentage franchise fee uh you know would would in essence make up or or not make up so much but sort of keep revenue on par with the initial franchise fees was Crispy Cream expanded
22:28 so quickly and they had so many stores opening so close together that these stores were cannibalizing each other. So, it's an interesting situation because I know here in Southern California, I didn't really see that. So in in a city as large as Los Angeles, right? Los Angeles, huge urban area, okay, we had three stores um none of which were within just a couple of miles of where I live. So we had a store in Santa Monica, which was
23:03 about um seven, eight miles away. We had another one in Burbank, which was probably 15 miles away, 10 15 miles away. And the closest one for me was in the Crenshaw district, which I think was about five five miles away. Now, to me, that doesn't sound like, you know, over coverage, right? And and by the way, the next closest one from there was, I think, down in either into East Los Angeles or down into Orange County. So, here in Southern California, it struck me that they were pretty spread out. Uh al although maybe people
23:39 will like you know we'll we'll drive pretty far to get our crispy cream donuts. So but in any event uh what the stone store owners saw was you know they would buy a franchise and then within a whatever space of time another store would open close enough that they were cannibalizing each other's sales. Right? So instead of being more judicious about what are called catchment areas, that's the area from which a a a retailer uh draws its customers, Krispy K Cream was
24:16 just sort of selling as many franchises as they could and as a result they were undermining the success of their franchisees and in the end undermining their own success, right? And that that's why the corporate crispy cream I mean that again one of the reasons why corporate crispy cream got into such difficulties. And so I think this is another thing uh that that that we need to consider is as we grow our businesses whether it's a again a regional a local
24:52 expansion a regional expansion uh you know national expansion or we're just growing [snorts] our practices how is that impacting in essence our sources of revenue so for example I was having a conversation I'm bringing up my friend Bill a lot. We've been talking a lot the last few days and we were talking about potential new sources of business and one of them I identified uh was a great source of business for Bill uh because they're not involved in anything having to do with real estate.
25:28 Uh but for me the concern I expressed was well I think there's some overlap between what we do and how how do each of us handle that from a revenue standpoint right so in essence if we if we you know make an agreement to start working together on certain things you know what happens if if we find ourselves you know in essence cannibalizing each other right and how is that going to work out and now for me that's part of my focus anytime I I look
26:04 at these things is what is what is the long-term picture as well as the shortterm picture right it takes a lot of time effort and and in sometimes uh money to build relationships and and so how is that going to pay off over the medium to long term is is always a question I have at least in the back of my mind, right? And so I think that same principle needs to be kept uppermost whenever we're looking at an expansion, whether it's a huge expansion like Crispy Cream or it's something on a
26:41 smaller scale. Okay, let's take a quick break and and we'll be back for more. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step. Magnum Properties, Inc., turning
27:17 property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396 or visit magnumprops.com. Okay. So the next uh issue that um caused Crispy Cream to struggle as a result of its very rapid scaling uh was with more and more stores operating became more complex but the
27:52 systems that Crispy Cream was using operationally couldn't keep pace. Okay. So, new stores were opening faster than they could than they could train staff, faster than they could maintain quality control systems. And so, this is part of what led to the uneven customer experience, which as I talked about a little earlier, diluted the customer the started diluting the
28:27 overall brand experience, right? And so when when we're we're scaling or when we're doing really any kind of new initiative, we need to look at okay how what are the sort of logistical underpinnings to doing this and how will that impact the existing parts of our business? Are we going to start cannibalizing other parts of the business as we now feed money into this new initiative or into this expansion? Okay. Are we even just
29:05 going to be able to keep up? Do we have enough people? Do they have proper training? Right? Or are we going to are we risking that be, you know, trying to do this with our existing staff and exhausting them to the point where they start making mistakes or, you know, they start becoming unhappy, there's complaints at home, you're working too long, you know, all those kinds of things. And so, you know, again, unfortunately for Crispy Cream, I think they were kind of a victim of their own success in that regard. And presumably
29:41 they did some kind of planning for the expansion, but the expansion outran that planning, right? And I I was having a, you know, a conversation with uh um a client um yesterday and I was you know, one of the things um actually I think this was last week, whatever. Um, one of the things I encourage clients to do is to really think, you know, way far ahead and way sort of um, optimistically, if you will, like what if this really takes
30:16 off? What would that mean? Just to have a sense of that in their heads, even if that scenario is is unlikely, maybe it's almost for sure not going to happen. Okay, fine. But but what if it does? Okay, first of all, it is a it's just a nice mental exercise, number one. And number two, if you know sort of all the stars align, as they say, and the expansion plans or the new product launch really takes off. Well, so at least you've done some kind of thinking about what needs to happen in order to
30:53 support that. So this, you know, seemingly, you know, great, you know, lucky occurrence doesn't end up being the kind of negative that it became for Crispy Cream, you know, just on some level badly um harming the business. Okay. So, whatever we're going to do, we need to make sure that the operational capacity, the logistics are are there to support it. that as things get more complex, we're able to scale them in a way that
31:30 supports the scaling of the business, right? It's all good and well to have huge sales growth, right? But the bottom line is we need to meet the sales growth. Okay. Next, um Crispy Cream um be be because they had these um you know strong uh growth targets, etc. uh they they just really didn't have the um financial and accounting checks and balances in place to deal with all of
32:08 this huge turnover of dollars, right? So, they had tons of money coming in because of the franchise fees, but a lot of money going out and the whole thing um really became chaotic. There was a lot of equipment being bought, leased, uh you know, they were rap trying to rapidly expand uh production capacity. At the same time they were um they were experiencing you know major cash flow problems and and and because the accounting system wasn't keeping up you know the operational people on the one
32:44 hand where they're they're building to meet you know capacity and demand and and yet on the financial side you know they're not able to keep pace and know if if all of this activity can even be supported financially right Um and it it got so bad that it triggered an investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission. Now, Crispy Cream at the time was a publicly traded company, so that's why the SEC got involved, right? And at that point, you know, things are are are are probably in pretty bad shape. Okay. So,
33:20 um why does this matter? Again, if our our this is somewhat similar to the logistical and operational side. If the financial side is not keeping pace, right? We have no idea if we're on track to remain even break even, let alone profitable, right? So expansion is is great and and and you know if the intention is to expand in order to gain market share and you know and a company is willing at least temporarily to give up some profitability or even to you
33:56 know for short term take some losses in order to gain market share fine that may very well be a valid decision. But right, if they don't know what that that's what they're doing, then it becomes problematic, right? And and that was the case for Crispy Cream. So earlier this morning, I was listening to uh a podcast. It's funny, I'm going to mention this podcast twice in a row now. I mentioned it yesterday, the OddLotss podcast. and they were talking about what's happening in the oil industry
34:31 uh you know relative to the events in in Venezuela it's etc [snorts] and uh um oops now I I lost why I was why I brought this up uh okay well I'm going to drop that example the the example went away um in in in any event if If a business is Oh, I'm sorry. Here's where the example came. So, um, currently OPEC, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Companies, um, is
35:08 keeping production at a fairly high level, which is keeping oil prices down. Now the the analyst with whom the hosts were speaking said that he thinks they're doing this because there is excess capacity in the industry right now. And the hope among OPEC members is that by keeping production up and prices low, it'll absorb this excess capacity over this year so that as they head into 2027 and
35:45 28 and beyond, they'll have the ability to start raising prices without having to cretail production. Okay? So, you know, I I mean, okay, sounds like it could work out that way, right? But his po I think the the the connection point is they're doing something that may not be in their best economic interests right now because they're looking beyond the horizon to what what will this mean a year from now, three years from now, five years from now, right? And so
36:23 we, you know, when it when it comes to understanding the financial realities of our business, right, we need to know what they are. Otherwise, we're making decisions in the dark. Okay? So again, if we're going to expand uh if we're going to embark on an expansion plan, we need to make sure that our accounting systems can handle that and can scale up at the same speed at which the business is scaling. so that we can know whether the
37:02 expansion is actually working for the benefit of the business or conversely it's draining the resources of the business and maybe we need to tap the brakes. Okay. [snorts] So uh just as the operational and logistical aspects need to be planned out and and need to be um scale rapidly scalable. So too the accounting and financial side of a business both of those have to work.
37:37 Okay? You don't need to scale up the financial and accounting side of a business if the business isn't expanding. On the other hand, if it is going to expand, you have to have this other part, the the the the financial and accounting part. Otherwise, you won't know whether the the expansion I is is really a benefit. Okay. And then finally, uh you know, Crispy Cream in in in kind of the final analysis, they failed to understand the market limits. So, uh, Crispy K Cream had an almost cultish
38:13 loyalty on the East Coast and their, I think, assumption was that they were going to be able to replicate that loyalty across the country. Now, couple of reasons why that may not be the case. Uh number one, Crispy Cream had been around for what 80 years, 75 years to really become a part of the culture
38:48 uh where it it existed on the east coast. Okay. And I don't think we should overlook time as a factor in building customer loyalty, client loyalty. Okay, that's that's that's number one. Number two, the coffee and donut culture on the East Coast is different than the culture here on the West Coast. Okay, we have a, you know, we're a driver driving culture here, you know, and and uh cup holders
39:26 notwithstanding, right, to like have your donut and have your coffee in your car or whatever, you know, that wasn't really what Crispy Cream um was geared to do. You know, it was more about, you know, going into the store, getting your box of donuts and your thing of coffee and and and that kind of thing. So there was a sort of a lack of of recognition of diff, you know, regional differences in in eating patterns and and that sort of thing. And all of this
40:03 created what amounted to excess supply and it left franchises with stores that weren't profitable, unsold inventory which which causes a loss and and and in the end a lot of the franchises closed because they just were not financially viable. So in in the end um by ignoring the differentiation in markets there was a tremendous amount of capital wasted both by the franchises and by Crispy Cream Corporate itself ended up with a lot of
40:40 frustrated store owners and it really damaged their reputation. Now has has the reputation recovered now? Well, I don't I don't know. I I I think I think there's a there's been a somewhat of a permanent loss of luster to the Crispy Cream brand. They may, you know, they're they're probably never going to recapture the level of mystique they had on the East Coast prior to, you know, to this expansion here in the 21st century. right now. That doesn't mean that they can't go on to to be, you know, to to
41:17 grow and and in fact um more recently Krispy K Cream is looking to uh get involved in some growth. um but m in a much more measured way, you know, after the sort of crash of the of the of the attempt to scale on a franchise basis. I I I saw, as you may, Crispy Cream started delivering to grocery stores. So, I see them at my local, you know, Ralph's store. That's typically where I get my Crispy Cream donuts now. Um they're not the hot and fresh ones. If I go to a store once in a while, I I'll
41:53 still do that. Uh but you know, Krispy K Cream looked for different ways to scale that weren't so capital intensive and and wouldn't be as liable to creating, you know, cannibal cannibalization of franchises and that sort of thing as their prior plan had been. And so I think the final lesson for us is that if we're planning on expanding our businesses, do what is the what is going to be the best way to do that? Right? So one of my clients, you know, parentally
42:30 talks about wanting to scale up and hire thousands of people to do this and to do that. and I pretty consistently counsel him, is that really going to be the best way to do it? you're talking about taking on ever more ever larger amounts of overhead in in the millions if not tens of millions of dollars uh you know in terms of expense whereas how can you do more with automation with AI with subconting subcontracting out to other
43:07 companies who can do part or even in some cases all of what you need done and that way you're not having to make big capital expenditures in order to expand. Right now, there's downsides to that as well. Of course, the the the the point is is to look at these options, weigh out the pluses and the minuses of each option and make decisions based on those that kind of considered analysis. Whether it's analysis of the market, whether it's an analysis of logistics,
43:43 analysis of financing, all of these factors need to go into our plans to scale or start a new initiative in our business and they should be carefully considered uh before we start spending a lot of money and before we launch a new initiative. So that's that's I think those are the lessons on you know scaling pitfalls from uh from Krispy K Cream's example. Uh you know I hopefully um you know their you know their problems will help us
44:19 avoid avoid them in the future. Um I still remain a crispy cream lover you know. So so that's undim. Look, all businesses uh make mistakes at least from time to time. Um but to my mind, they still have a fantastic product and they have, you know, a great future and and and it it appears that they, you know, learned some good lessons from uh that otherwise difficult experience. So, I thank you very much for joining me today. Uh this is my last show for this week, so I'll look forward to seeing you
44:55 next week. And if you have any uh questions, comments, criticisms, links to social media are in the show notes when the uh episode posts on YouTube. Always happy to hear them. If you have an idea for something that you want to hear about, learn about always glad to entertain those as well. So, thanks again for watching. Cheers to my live viewers. And let's see. Ah, just signing off. Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage at all times, my friends.