0:03 Who are you and where are you going? What do you want? [Music] Hello and welcome to Trust and Estates Weekly. I'm your host, Kevin Bemmel, and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about uh estate planning and probate and trust administration. Typically from the prospect of professionals who do this for a living, obviously that's the definition of
0:38 professional. Uh but also for those of you who are dealing with your own estate plan or perhaps you are in the midst of uh the administration of an estate and you want to be able to speak to your advisors uh more cogently or if you're handling it yourself, you want to know better uh what are what are the issues and how you might handle them. So, uh, today I'm going to be talking about, uh, whether you should, uh, become a
1:14 professional fiduciary. So, for, you know, people who have watched the show before, you know that here in California, there is a profession called a licensed professional fiduciary. Uh it we're the o currently the o California is the only state that uh has a license to do this. Uh although other states are considering it and uh you know I I I talk to people on a pretty regular basis who are thinking
1:50 about or who are thinking about maybe I should become a professional fiduciary. And so I thought I would do a show specifically on this topic and that way in the future I can say well you know I go to you know trust and estates weekly and and and search the show I did on becoming a professional fiduciary and and that will I think give you a lot of information. Uh so uh I will I will say that um uh here in California
2:25 fiduciaries uh are not um restricted to only administrating uh trusts and probates. So a professional fiduciary may also act as a guardian and as a conservator. Okay, those are significantly different roles than acting as what's known sort of globally as a personal representative i.e. a trustee or uh uh well a professional
3:00 fiduciary wouldn't act as an executive but as a and as an administrator. Okay. So uh my work is acting as a personal representative. I don't do conservatorships or guardianships. Uh but a professional fiduciary license uh here in California would qualify someone to do those to fill those roles as well. Now, uh, if someone is going to be just administrating one estate or the a trustee in one trust that's not related
3:35 to them, uh, by family, they don't need to have a professional fiduciary license. However, uh, once you're going to be doing two or more, you need to have this license. And it's it's interesting to note that um even judges serving in the probate court are a little bit unclear about this issue. So uh that that is the standard. Two or more uh you know situations that you're not connected to essentially by familial
4:11 ties. Okay. You need to need to have a license. Okay. Uh so to get a license uh first of all requires that you you meet educational standards. And um actually here I'm going to I'm going to bring up the uh professional fiduciary website so you can see this. Oops. I'm going to learn how to spell Uh, here we go. Professional fiduciary
4:47 bureau. Okay, here we go. And got it. All right. So, let me go ahead and share my screen. And here we go. We'll enlarge this so you can see it better. Okay. So, the Professional Fiduciary Bureau, which is um part of um part of the Department of Consumer Affairs here in California um is is the whatever the the bureau, if
5:25 you will, that's in charge of licensing. Okay, let me get rid of this message right here. Okay. And let's go over to to applicants. Okay. And well, this is going to come up every time I see. Okay. Well, there you go. Okay. So, um you can see here that the application fee is $600. Okay. Um you have to pass an exam that's administered through the center for guardianship certification and the initial license fee is $1,300.
6:01 Now, unlike any other license I've ever held or heard of in California, this is an an this license has to be renewed annually. So, you pay $1,300 a year. Okay? And um that's not a small amount. By contrast, the fee for real estate agents is uh I believe $625 every four years. Okay? So you can see that the professional fiduciary license fee is almost eight times the fee for a
6:38 real estate agent. Okay. Part of the reason is because there are so few of them. Uh and I think the other reason is because um the you know the money that that that we often have in our charge it can be a lot. And so uh you know the the uh professional fiduciary bureau is very very careful. Okay. So let's look at the application checklist here. Okay. So you need to complete uh oh wait this doesn't
7:14 show this doesn't show what I wanted it to. Sorry about that. I'm looking for the uh I want to show you the let's see if they have it here. Okay. This is the application. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, here you go. This is what I wanted to show you. So, applicants are required to complete 30 hours of pre-licicensing education um including at least one hour of instruction and cultural competency. Okay. So, uh, typically
7:49 where, uh, where you'll get that education is through, uh, something called the, um, oh, oops, wrong one. Oh, shoot. Professional fiduciary association. Okay. So, the Professional Fiduciary Association of California, I'm going to switch over to their website now. Replace. Here we go.
8:26 Okay. So, um I did my um application studies through the uh PFA's uh course of study. Um it was relatively inexpensive. They call it the fiduciary academy. Okay. And um and it was relatively inexpensive. Um you know, it was of decent quality. Frankly, I I wouldn't say it was particularly high quality. Uh but but it was, you know, pretty good. So this is this is um the fiduciary academy home. Okay. And and um
9:05 uh enrollies. So through this platform and gain access to our range of high quality education, all approved for continuing age credit education credits by both uh the professional fiduciaries bureau of California and PAC. So you can sign up for the pre-licicensing education program. Here you can see it costs uh $1,500 uh to do that. Um you have three months I mean three years to complete it. 36 months. Okay. It it it sort of coordinates with the um uh the the CGC
9:41 which is the uh the um conservator and guardianship uh association and um it it covers it covers all the different parts uh I mean it it covers all the aspects of being a prof a professional fiduciary as well as having a an a a self-study uh section for the fiduciary exam. am itself. Now, I I I will tell you that um I didn't find the exam to be particularly difficult, but I have a pretty long and deep um uh you
10:17 know uh background in this kind of information. So, um uh that that's how I was uh so so that's how I found it. Um okay. So, so this is this is the background you need. And let's see. Um, I don't think it's going to give me the list. Yeah, review per. Okay, here you go. Here we go. Okay, so here's the curriculum. So, you have an introduction, which is just generally speaking about conservatorships, probates, trust, powers of attorney, guardianships, fundamentals.
10:52 Um, then there's there's a part on conservatorship, there's a part on asset management, there's a part on trust, there's professional practice. Okay. So, what's interesting is a large amount of the coursework is on financial issues. Okay. However, most people who who get the license uh appear to be people who want to handle conservatorships and guardianships and they're coming out of a health care background and maybe
11:29 that's why the emphasis in PAC is is on financial issues. uh because the the the people who are getting the license don't have a background in in those financial you know don't have a financial background. So, uh, be that as it may, um, you know, again, the information is fine, um, but it is not going like a lot of pre-licicensing education, the material is not going to prepare you to be a personal representative of an
12:04 estate or trust uh, all by itself. Okay? There's there's just too much to know on a practical basis about how finances work, how real estate works, how businesses operate. None of that is covered in PAC information. You're taking those classes really just to fulfill the uh pre-education requirement so that you can then sit for the exam and get your license. Uh so if you don't have a background on the financial side
12:40 of uh you know these issues then you would be well advised even prior to getting your license to talk to some professional fiduciary firms and see if there's going to be an opportunity for you to work with someone where you can get the practical knowledge that you need in order to learn the business and and go on to success. And I I' I've been contacted from well, you know, time to time, not not particularly often, but from time to
13:15 time by people who are new to the business and they're looking to learn and they they are uh not necessarily having an easy time of it. This is not to discourage you. It's only to say that you're going to you're going to want to do your homework to make sure that you have a a a path that will essentially provide for you to learn how to do h how to fulfill your your duties properly. Okay? Because as a professional fiduciary in
13:50 the name, right? you are always acting in a fiduciary uh um in a fiduciary role. You don't have room for errors. Okay. So, it is important that if you don't already have the background that you have a way to get it. Okay. So, those are the the the basics of actually getting the license. It's no different than getting any other license uh certainly that I've ever had. I I've had a real estate license for gosh almost 40 years. Um I've had
14:27 various security licenses. They all work pretty much the same way. There's a pre-education requirement. You sit for an exam. Once you pass the exam, you apply for the license. Once you have the license, you're obligated to do continuing education and periodically renew the license for which there is a fee. Um I I I I will say just to digress for a moment, while licenses today are looked at as a way to protect the public, the the history of licensing which dates back to the 19th century is
15:02 really more much much more about the government generating revenue and excluding certain groups from certain professions. Um so uh for example uh doctors being licensed was originally a way to uh exclude uh women from practicing in medicine especially what was known as midwifeifery that is helping women have babies. uh licensing of of various trades. Uh this in New York was infamous for this was a way of excluding black
15:39 Americans from being able to participate in those trades. So while the uh history of licensing is shall we say uh something less than publicspirited uh today um the the idea behind licensing is to protect the public and so they want to make sure that people are properly qualified to begin with and that they maintain those qualifications. All all taken together though, no licensing regime prepares you to practice a particular profession. That's something you're going to have to gain
16:15 on your own outside of and in addition to the licensing regime. Okay, let's take a quick break. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step.
16:52 Magnum Properties, Inc., turning property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396 or visit magnumprops.com. Hey, so this is Trust and Estates Weekly and I'm your host Kevin Bemel. I'm talking about uh becoming a professional fiduciary and whether it's really something that you know you should consider uh you know as a professional endeavor. So, I talked about how you get
17:28 the license. Now, let's let's talk about um some of the pros and cons of becoming a professional fiduciary. So, uh, I was talking with somebody yesterday, um, don't don't remember who, and the person was asking me about my work and what I did and, you know, did I like it, that sort of thing. And I I my response was uh in general the work is meaningful meaning that I get to help people and I get to help people oftentimes when
18:03 they're at a very vulnerable if not the most vulnerable time in their life. So because my practice is uh solely as a personal representative, someone I take on my role when somebody has died and oftentimes the loved ones who were left behind are, you know, they're very sad, upset about the passing of their loved one. Okay, not always, right? You know, we don't live in a perfect world. Um but but usually
18:38 there is a grief event connected with my being involved with the situation. Even for conservators and guardians, there is probably a grief event happening or pending for the situations in which they get involved. And so helping people who are vulnerable, who can potentially be prey to unscrupulous behavior that would steal their money, that would abuse them, child abuse, elder abuse, those sort of things is a
19:14 is a very meaningful thing to do. helping people through their grief. Helping people through a transition in their life where they are no longer able to um take care of their own affairs the way they may the way they may have uh previously can be very difficult. I'm dealing with a situation like that right now where um you know the the person this this is uh a woman who's been in business for decades and decades. She's
19:50 been retired for a while now. Um but she certainly knows business very well. She was in the banking business for a long long time and it's unfortunately it's just gotten to the point where it's, you know, it's it's too difficult for her to keep up with these issues. And so I've been asked to, you know, step in and and help with this situation. And um on the one hand, there's pressure to sort of jump in and and and grab a hold of it. And I've counseledled, you know what, there's more at stake here than seeing to it that the finances are properly
20:27 handled. That's the easy part. The more challenging part is helping this person come to terms with the transition. That is what's really at stake here. And and so and that for me is the meaningful part of the work that I do. you can see the chaplain coming out, you know, coming out um you know, my my 16 years in the Navy, uh helping people with if not the same issues, similar issues. So, if if you um want to have a career that
21:04 allows you to truly help people and oftentimes help them when they need it most. So, you know, being a professional fiduciary may very well be the the the the uh career for you. Now, I I I should mention, by the way, that while in California, this is a licensed profession, that doesn't mean you can't do it anywhere else. Indeed, you know, you can act as a fiduciary in all of the other uh 49 states. It's just there's no license for it. I would say, however, that there are
21:42 different rules depending on the fiduciary role that you're going to take. So, I think in Arizona, there may be a license for someone who's acting as a conservator and a guardian. Since I don't fill those roles, I I it it's not relevant to me. Uh so what I would say is if you're living in another state or you're considering practicing in another state, make sure that you take a look at the the various um rules in each state for the type of fiduciary services in which
22:18 you want to be involved. Okay. and the center for the um the uh yeah center for guardianship uh such and such wait what is it called again hold on one second I'll get you the name uh oops go back here and oh no it doesn't want to I oh the center for guardianship certification there it is so the center for guardianship certification if you go to their website they have a map on it that shows what the at least generally
22:54 what the rules are in various states with respect to what qualifications you may need. Now, obviously, since they're a guardianship organization, that's their focus is where you may need to qualify to be a guardian, okay? Or a conservator for that matter. Uh so, but that's a resource available to you. and and I'll I'll put that link uh in the show notes uh once the this episode posts on on YouTube. Okay. Next, there is growing demand for this profession. So, I I'll I'll talk about well, so
23:30 nationwide, I saw a statistic not too long ago. Um, I think over the next 10 to 15 years or so, there will be a transfer of, hold, hold your hold your uh horses here, $30 trillion in wealth. $30 trillion. That is an absolutely enormous sum. Okay, not quite as big as our national debt, but it, you know, it's about uh 80% of the size of our national debt.
24:05 That's how much wealth is going to transfer. Here in California, I believe something like 20 or 25% of that amount uh will happen just here in California. And we have about five or 6 thousand attorneys who handle probates and and and trust administration. There's about my my professional fiduciary license is 1341. Okay. There's maybe been I don't know a couple hundred since then. So there's maybe 1,500 licensed professional fiduciaries.
24:41 However, okay, not all of them are uh still working. Number one. And number two, a lot of them are not qualified to act as personal representatives. So if that's your interest, okay, which is the focus of this show, uh there is a tremendous amount of opportunity uh both here in California as well as across the country. So, uh, you know, anyone who tells you that it's a crowded profession, I I I would be skeptical that they actually know what they're
25:17 talking about. Okay. N first of all, for whatever reason, there are not a lot of lawyers looking to go into this area of law. Um, they find other areas, corporate law, th uh, you know, those sorts of things for whatever reason more interesting. So, the average, from what my friend Joshua tells me, the average age of a a probate attorney here in California is is pretty high. I think high high 50s, low 60s, something like that, as opposed to the overall median age of of of lawyers. So
25:56 the lawyer population is little by little aging out and professional fiduciaries aren't uh coming on board quickly enough to to fill that gap. So there's lots of opportunity. It's even on the the conservatorship side the the part of the population the population in general is aging. Okay. Baby boomers are getting older, my generation, and people are living longer. Um, but not necessarily maintain and and well, they are they are
26:31 maintaining their faculties longer. But still a as people live longer and longer into their 80s and 90s and even into their hundreds, there are a growing number of people who for various reasons cannot continue to handle their own affairs. So if your interest is in being a conservator, I think there's opportunity, growing opportunity there as well. um in terms of guardianships. So this is an interesting aspect as well as medical technology as health care has improved
27:07 um children who in previous decades may not have survived into teenhood and young adulthood are doing so now. However, um the fact that they're living longer and more productive lives doesn't mean that they're able to handle their own affairs. So, the the need for guardians I think is also increasing. And you know, if you're looking to combine uh the sort of p you know,
27:43 principal care or patient care side of taking care of people with the financial side or you're looking maybe to team up with someone who handles the financial while you handle more of the the sort of uh patient or client care side. So there's there's opportunity growing there as well. Excuse me. Next, um, you know, you as a professional fiduciary, you have a lot of flexibility. So, first of all, as I've been talking
28:19 about, there are different areas in which you can practice. So, you can choose one that fits your likings and your skill set and your experience. That's number one. Uh, number two, you can work independently. So I work I I don't have staff. I build teams on an ad hoc basis um in order to handle the matter that is at hand. Okay. And in so doing I can be more economical even than other professional fiduciaries who have built staffs and they have they may have
28:56 multiple fiduciaries working at the firm and then they have administrative staff. Okay. So there are firms that that work that way. So you you have a you you can make that choice. Do you want to work independently? Do you want to work maybe in a partnership or do you want to build you know a larger firm? That's all up to you. You can so you can look you can look to build a business or you can look to join an established firm. So there's a whole range of career paths that are open to you if you decide uh you know if
29:32 if you're you know if you're yeah if you decide to become a professional fiduciary. So uh in in some ways pardon me it's like being in the real estate business. There are opportunities in the real estate business to work independently. You can work as a what amounts to an independent contractor for another firm or you can get a job where you're essentially an employee. You can work in the more simple level. You can aspire to more complex uh cases. So all of that
30:08 is within your you within the realm of of what happens in the fiduciary business and and you can learn about them and craft your practice the way it suits you best. And then finally on the pro side so you have diverse responsibilities. So I've mentioned the two main ones already that is overseeing medical care um number one and managing or really administrating finances on the other. So those are two of the broad categories
30:45 within them though. So I know for myself on the financial administration side and the practical administration side it's not just you know the routine paying of bills and and all all the things we do you know anyone does for themselves there there is an opportunity to oversee real estate so I provide asset management services to real estate I don't do the day-to-day property management although I could um I I have a a firm to which I to which I refer
31:21 that out. Um they're very experienced in that. You just saw a commercial for them. Um Magnum Properties Inc. Okay. There's and there's an opportunity to work with a lot of other professionals. I work with a lot of lawyers, accountants, wealth managers, wealth advisors, real estate agents, um title company people, even engineers. I've got a a particular estate right now where we've got an engineer. We've got a a site and there's I mean a building and in the center of the building the the
31:57 the the floor has sunk about six inches, right? And so I'm working with a lawyer who's engaging an engineer to check this out and find out what's going on. Right? So I get to deal with a a very broad range of issues and responsibilities and and I find that particularly interesting because from from day to it's not this the same dull routine from day to day. Okay. Whereas in other jobs, you know, if you're doing I don't know data input for an insurance company. So you know
32:35 you're pretty much doing the same thing every day. for me, I I I couldn't take that. Uh but and so the the diversity of responsibilities of a professional of fiduciary is is particularly interesting to me. Okay, let's take another quick break. Probate and Trust TV, your curated source for the most useful and insightful content on estate planning and trust and probate administration, featuring standout professionals like Bill Gross, Paul Bravolet, James
33:10 Cunningham, and yours truly. Whether you're a lawyer, accountant, real estate professional, or working on your own succession plan, this channel helps you quickly find the clearest, most practical content YouTube has to offer. Subscribe now to Probate and Trust TV. Spend more time learning, less time searching. Okay, so we're back with this Trust and Estates Weekly and I'm talking about the pros and cons of becoming a professional fiduciary. So I mentioned uh the pros
33:47 before the break, meaningful work, growing demand, flexible practice, and diverse responsibilities. So those are the pros. Now, no profession has only pros to it. At least I've never found that profession. Um, and and maybe that's because I no one seems to want to hire me to eat uh Rocky Mountain chocolates and coffee ice cream if I could find that job. Oh, and read, right? I think there would only be cons to that. But of course, the I guess the pro to that was would be that, you know, gain a lot of weight and live an
34:22 unhealthy life. But but in any event, there are cons to the profession or they may be cons from your perspective. First of all, there is high liability and risk in in filling a fiduciary role. So, as a fiduciary, you are legally accountable for your decisions and you may be legally accountable directly to the court. If you're acting as the personal representative for an estate, you may be legally liable to the
34:57 beneficiaries under a trust who could then take you to court if they feel that you have breached your fiduciary duty. uh you could be under um legal liability to the subject of a conservatorship or a guardianship who again could file a lawsuit against you if they think that you have breached your fiduciary duty. Okay? So, uh even if you make mistakes, you can still be held liable for those
35:32 mistakes even if they're made in good faith. Okay. So, it's a very very high level of responsibility and with that comes a high level of liability and risk. Now, you can get insurance, professional liability insurance, highly recommended. Okay? And and the the best reason to have that is to pay for you to be defended in the event that you're sued. Okay? So because that's all not always but most of the time that is the most expensive part about dealing with
36:09 the liability and risks of being in any fiduciary position. Okay? Because people can file lawsuits against you that have no merit. You're still going to need to to defend them. So if that kind of situation is if you find that that situation difficult to uh you know difficult to handle if you you know won't sleep at night if if someone sues you. So then this is a a very serious con to take into account if you're considering becoming a professional
36:44 fiduciary. Okay. So high liability and risk uh con number one. Number two, a lot of emotional and ethical challenges and conflicts. So I I know in my profession uh I typically am not asked to get involved unless there is some kind of conflict going on. Okay, the conflict may be between beneficiaries or heirs to an estate. It may be within an estate. Maybe the estate owns a business and the clients
37:19 are upset because now the owner of the business has died and they're upset. They don't know what's going to happen. Um, there can be conflicts. I had a big conflict with uh with with with in one estate with US Bank u which I found out did something similar in an estate that a friend and colleague of mine um uh handled. um they caused a lot of uh aggravation um and and grief by the way they handled the matter um and they sought in my opinion to maximize conflict rather than
37:57 to uh you know to handle the matter appropriately. So there can be you know conflicts arising not from anyone within the matter itself but you know parties or businesses or organizations outside the matter that are are in some way connected to it. Okay. And they don't care. I mean they will you know shed crocodile tears. We're sorry for your loss but when it comes right down to it all they care about is the money. So, so um and uh you know there has been frankly more than once when I've been uh
38:36 I felt I've been very and on very very strong ethical grounds. Um meaning that what the other party is looking to do is unethical. Okay. Um, but nonetheless, I ended up having to settle with that party because the cost to prove that they were acting unethically is unacceptably high. So, if like me, you have a kind of a high sense of of of justice that justice should prevail,
39:11 um, it can be taxing at times to do this work. uh for my own practice, this is one of the aspects that I find uh most challenging is is having to make those calls when I have to say nope, you know, the the the cost to fight is too high. I can't justify defaying the the assets um of of an estate um in order to fight this. it's it's cheaper to to you know just settle it and and and get rid of it even though it means unscrupulous
39:48 people are going to at least partly prevail right now if if that really wrankles you and it's going to keep you awake at night again this is a con that may preclude you from being a professional fiduciary so I would give some thoughts to how you deal with conflict how you deal with with ethical and emotional issues. Are you able to work those through for the benefit of your client or the estate and not get hung up on your own sense of I'm not going to let them, you know, trample me,
40:24 that kind of thing. Okay, so that's number two. Number three, there is a heavy regulatory burden to being a professional fiduciary, especially in a state like California where there is a licensing regime. So, you have to do continuing education. You have to pay that very large license fee each year. Okay? All and and so there's there's that aspect of regulatory compliance. Okay. There's also just compliance requirements in terms of proper bookkeeping and recordkeeping,
41:00 all of that. Uh to the extent that you're handling probates, you're responsible to the court, you're going to have to do you may have to do periodic report status reports to the court. You may you may have to do final accountings to the court. And so all of that takes time. there's a certain amount of um detail orientation which I'll talk about in a couple of minutes that's necessary to deal with the regulatory burden. Okay. As well um and I talked about this I think a week or two ago in terms of how to deal with um
41:38 beneficiaries who are in dispute there. you know there is a lot there's a very big emphasis on making sure that communications are properly documented. So, uh, even when I have a telephone call, in the vast majority of cases, I'm turning around and confirming what happened in that call through an email, especially if I think there's a chance that some kind of contention could result out of that telephone call.
42:13 Otherwise, I do the vast majority of my communication through email. So, there is a written record of what's gone on. Okay? So, it's time consuming. Um, it can be, you know, frustrating at times. Um, and so again, if if that's something you find difficult uh to deal with, you being a professional fiduciary may not be the right uh profession for you. And then finally, there is a demanding workload. So, um although I I find in general I'm able to
42:48 manage my calendar pretty well, there are times when I'll be at dinner and the phone will ring and I see who's calling and I know I have to take this call. It means something important is going on and they they they need to speak to me and for me to take the attitude uh I'm at dinner leave me alone would not be appropriate. It wouldn't be a fulfillment of my fiduciary duty. Now it may not be monetarily
43:23 my fiduciary duty to pick up that phone at that time. Um, but but as I mentioned before, there's a whole emotional component to this type of work and making sure that we attend to the emotional side of issues when we're dealing with people is a very important, it's a crucial aspect of acting uh successfully in the role of a fiduciary. So, it can be demanding, it can be unpredictable. Okay. I had a matter uh a
43:58 proposed matter come up about a month ago and the way things were shaping up initially, it was something I would have to step into in in in basically 24 hours and really grab a hold of um in in the event it turned out not to be as time-sensitive and that's fine. Uh but but you know those things come up. Okay. And um in one of the estates that I'm I'm still handling, it was incredibly chaotic for the first five or
44:33 six months. Um it was large. There was a lot of things going on. There was there was no estate plan in force and so it was really taxing to get all that put together. Okay. So it's a demand. It can be a demanding workload and you may not always be able to control uh what's going on. Okay. Okay, so those are the cons. So for whom is it right to be a professional fiduciary? Well, um first of all I you need to be detailoriented. Okay. Um this is not something you can fly by the seat of your pants. It's not something that uh you know you can let
45:10 other people handle without proper oversight. You need to be you need to be detail oriented. You need to be on top of things. There are deadlines and even though your lawyer uh may be responsible for deadlines with the court, you may you oftenimes are going to find you're the one who's making sure that deadlines get met. So you need to be detail oriented. I'm not going to dwell on that. It's I think it's pretty much self-explanatory. Next, you need to be a strong communicator. You need to be able
45:46 to be to be able to deal with people who are under stress, under anxiety, who are in conflict, who are in grief. And all of those um create a situation where people may not be communicating as effectively and clearly as they would were they not under those stressors. And so the responsibility will fall to you to be the one to facilitate that communication and make sure that it goes at least
46:23 reasonably well so that whatever process you're handling goes as smoothly as possible. Okay? So you may need to mediate disputes. you you'll need to explain decisions clearly and you'll need to handle the emotional dynamics of the people involved. And so uh you need to have strong communication skills and I would say being a professional fiduciary means working to constantly improve those
46:59 skills. Okay. I know one of the things I find is um I'm the most I'm the most detailed communicator typically within my team when it comes to certain matters. So people will be talking about he's and she's and and and I'm I'm listening to them and I'm thinking to myself, I'm pretty sure I know who this he and she's are. um but I'm not I'm not 100% clear and so there's a good chance that the other team members are not necessarily clear and so then I have to stop the person who's speaking and say pardon me
47:36 but I I need to interrupt who is the he or she or the he and she's about whom you're speaking. So it's it's also being that kind of mediator in communication to make sure everybody is on the same page. Next you have to be comfortable making decisions. Okay. Now, hopefully you're comfortable making ethical decisions because that's what's required of a fiduciary, but it's not it's not a position where you can take a poll and decide what the decision is going to be.
48:11 No matter how many advisors you have, in the end, the responsibility of the decision rests with you, the fiduciary. And so you need to be able to wear those decisions. If you wear them heavily, it's going to be a long difficult professional life for you. If you wear them well, um, and you can make decisions with confidence. So then you'll you'll do fine. Okay? But it's not for people who are who constantly
48:48 are rethinking themselves. They make a decision and then they regret making the decision. Um it takes a certain amount of decisiveness. Okay. Now there is a collaborative aspect to making decisions and I know in my practice I like to get as much input as possible from the various members of the team before I make a decision. Okay. However, it's my team members know they have when it comes to certain areas,
49:23 I'm going to defer the decision to them. Okay? So, for example, if a property is being marketed for sale, okay? I'm not going to be making the decisions about how to market that property. I'm not the expert. Okay? So, I'm going to be relying on them to be making that decision or the decisions about marketing. However, I'm going to be making the decision about whether to sign an offer or not. They can highly recommend it. They can tell me I'm crazy. they can make their case, but in the end, I'm going to make
49:59 that decision because that's a decision uh to for for which the court will rightly hold me responsible. Okay? So, I'm I'm not going to defer that decision to anybody. Okay? So, may hopefully that gives you an idea of of the air those th those areas. Okay? So, you need to have a certain amount of decisiveness. You need to be comfortable making decisions. And I would I would say you need to be comfortable in in evaluating the ethical components, the moral components of those decisions as part of the
50:34 decision-making process. Finally, I think you need to have uh kind of an entrepreneurial spirit in order to be successful as a professional fiduciary. Okay, I mentioned the different forms the business your business or your practice might take, but they all come down to someone who is in business. Okay, and and so having that entrepreneurial mindset is important for success. Uh after you get a reputation, business may come to you, but until you
51:09 gain that professional standing, you're going to have to go out and beat the bushes for clients. Okay? uh and and and there's just no two ways around that. So if if you don't have an entrepreneurial mindset, if you don't have kind of an independent business mindset, um maybe being a professional fiduciary isn't right for you. Okay. So those are um those are the the qualities that make being a I think the qualities you would want to have and and for whom being a professional fiduciary is right. For who is it not right? Well,
51:46 if you are conflict averse, you do not want to be a professional fiduciary. Okay? Because inevitably conflict arises. It can arise is I I'm well I mentioned previously all the areas in which it can arise. If you have a lot of trouble dealing with conflict, if you have difficulty standing up for yourself, if you have difficulty hearing other people's opinions and thoughts, um if you have a very thin skin, being a
52:22 professional fiduciary is not right for you. Okay, I'm I'm just going to leave it there. It it it's not you need to have thick skin in order to do this. Um, if you are someone who next, if you're someone who deals with being held accountable, being a fiduciary is not the right profession for you because you will be held legally and financially accountable for your decisions. That is fundamental to being a fiduciary. And
52:57 I would argue if you want to be a successful fiduciary, you should have the attitude you want to be held accountable. I tell my team members and clients pretty regularly, I want you asking questions. Okay? Better you ask questions now than be upset with a decision I made. Um, and down the road now we're in some kind of conflict. Okay? So hold me accountable upfront question. When I say I'm going to take the following action, ask me the
53:32 questions. That's my attitude because maybe there's something I didn't think of that you will raise and having raised it, I'll make a better decision. Okay, that's the level of comfort with accountability I recommend uh that you strive. Okay, so that's number two. Number three, if you're looking for predictable hours, the proverbial, you know, 9 to5, being a fiduciary is probably not the right profession for you, especially if you're going to be dealing with conservatorships and guardianships where
54:09 there's a a client care component to what you're doing, a a care in terms of their health and well-being. Okay? Issues to health and well-being are not confined to nineto-5. They can happen at any time of the day or night and you have to be prepared to deal with those situations. And if you're not, this is not work that you should be doing. And finally, if you are uncomfortable working in a regulated environment, being a professional fiduciary is is probably not the right profession for you. So the here in
54:46 California, the state of California requires professional fiduciaries to report every year. They will they scrutinize those reports. I know they do. I just had mine scrutinized. Um and I I there was something I missed in it. Uh oh, no, no, I'm sorry. Yeah, I forgot to uh sign my certification of continuing education. uh you know and my attitude there there's there's one lady who basic as far as I can tell who handles the the various license uh uh issues at the Bureau of Professional Fiduciaries. Very nice lady. Um and you
55:24 know like she sent me this thing the other day and and I'm like oh oops you know and I I said hey I apologize to it it it I thought I had taken care of everything. Here it is for you. I I appreciate you catching this and uh and and you know and bringing it to my attention. Whether you like regulation or not philosophically or politically, uh you're if you're going to be a professional fiduciary, you're going to be dealing with regulators and you better you better be prepared to have a good working cordial relationship with
56:00 them. They have their job to do and and they're going to do it one way or another. I highly recommend you build a productive relationship with those folks um because that will make your life easier. If you have trouble doing that kind of thing, again, this is not the right profession for you. If you're combative, especially when it comes to government regulation, this is not the right profession for you. So uh uh four pros, four cons, four, uh aspects of of who you are that
56:37 would, you know, recommend your being a professional fiduciary, four aspects of who you are that say no, don't do this. Okay, so there you go. Um and um that's what I have for you today. So I thank you very much for joining me, especially my live guests. Uh any thoughts, comments, criticisms, please put them in the show notes. I mean, please um please feel free to post them. The social media links will be in the show notes. Uh and let's see, uh tomorrow at 10 a.m. Pacific time is my show, Business Lessons from the Military. On Wednesday
57:14 at 10 a.m. Pacific is my show, People Making Money. And then on Wednesday is my every other week show Jiggers's place at 5:00 pm and we'll have a cocktail and a schmoo. So uh if you know someone who you think would benefit from uh hearing this show, please pass it along to them. I I would love to uh have them as a as a potential viewer, listener um and maybe even a subscriber. It'd be very very very much appreciate you're doing that. So, thanks again for joining me today. Wishing you a uh wonderful day.
57:50 Hopefully, I'll see you soon again later in the week. And signing off as I always do. Marie Darly, you