0:01 Who are you [music] and where are you going? [music] What do you want? Hello and welcome to Trust and Estates Weekly. I'm your host Kevin Bemel and I'm here every Monday, well almost every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time. You may have noted that today's show, the title of today's show sounds suspiciously similar to last week's, and that's because uh I was so sick last
0:37 week, I couldn't broadcast, so I rescheduled last week's topics to this week. You can probably still hear a little bit of the lingering illness in my voice. Uh but it's good to be back and [clears throat] uh I hope that you are not experiencing the same thing. It was uh it was bleak. I I have I have to say. Um but uh I'm um [clears throat] after a course of antibiotics, I'm mostly on the men now. And uh hopefully we'll be able to [clears throat] uh enjoy the the rest of uh
1:19 pardon me. Uh so there you go. See, hopefully I'll be able to enjoy the rest of the uh end of the year festivities uh with with without uh uh any more uh days off for being sick. So uh today I'm going to be talking to talking about a topic that is uh I don't want to say it's it's dear to my heart. It's aggravating to my heart perhaps, but but it is near to my heart. One of the biggest estates that I handle [clears throat] has had this issue has
1:54 still has the issue and it is to a a certain extent an ongoing source of uh difficulty if not outright aggravation and that is what happens when a business owner dies. So, you may be tempted to think this only applies with a business that's in a sole proprietor form, meaning that legally there is no distinction between the business entity and the individual himself.
2:29 However, that's not the case. So, [clears throat] the business could be a corporate entity, could be an LLC, could be a partnership. uh it the form of the business doesn't necessarily matter. Uh when a business owner dies and [clears throat] apart from having an estate plan there is a succession plan for the business it or there is I should say there is not a separate succession plan for the business itself. it will be
3:05 at the very least somewhat problematic. Uh, and the reason is because [clears throat] once the business owner dies, whether he's the owner because it's a sole proprietorship or whether he's the the sole or majority shareholder of the business in a corporation or whether he's the majority member in an LLC, the decisionmaking authority may now be attenuated, meaning that the person who ultimately
3:40 um signs off on decisions is no longer there or may be gone altogether, meaning the person who who ran the business and made all the decisions is is now deceased. And so that's going to have a profound impact on how the business operates. And this is the situation uh that that I have. So the um one of the estates that I administrate, the deedent had a had a business um happens to be [clears throat] a property management business. You'll see it advertised uh a little bit uh later on
4:16 in the show um in about probably about 10 12 minutes. As a matter of fact, the business is actually it it is a corporation, but the deedent was the sole shareholder of the corporation. number one. [snorts] And number two, he left no succession plan. And so when I was a when I was asked by the heir of the estate to administrate the estate, um I [clears throat] took on the de facto role of administrating this
4:51 business as well. Now, it's an interesting sort of legal issue. I don't work for the business. I'm not employed by this corporation. My responsibility is to oversee its operations and and so uh but in the but in between the time when I was given between when I was asked to take on this role and was given a temporary appointment. Okay, there was a time gap and in the meantime there were clients. The the the business
5:26 happened to be a uh property management company. So the business had clients and the clients you know wanted their [clears throat] their you know business taken care of. Uh but there was nobody who had authority to do so. So the current employees of the business did not have the authority to run the business even though they had the knowledge and experience to do so. Uh they had no legal right to run that business and in in in [clears throat]
6:01 more particularly they had no legal right to bind the business to do anything. And so this became problematic from a banking standpoint, regulatory standpoint, etc. So there was a gap between when I was appointed what's called a special administrator, which is a temporary appointment pending the appointment of the actual administrator. Um, and the reason to to digress for just a minute, the reason that there was a a special administrator appointment really was to
6:36 deal with the business because under a temporary appointment like that, uh, it it can typically be done much more quickly than the appointment an appointment as the administrator and so there was less of a time gap. Now having said that, [cough and clears throat] excuse me, there were still things that for example banks um were somewhat reluctant to do because I was the temporary administrator, not the not the administrator. And so it caused a whole range of of problems.
7:22 Oh, pardon me again. So, [clears throat] I'm not going to go into um the details of that particular case. Um they're not necessarily for public consumption. Uh but but I I use it as an example uh and and of a situation where one might think, oh, well, it's a corporate entity, so it just goes on about its business. But it was it's a it's a closely held corporation. It's not publicly traded. And so [clears throat]
7:58 the individual who had the legal authority to act on behalf of the corporation was gone. Uh and now someone needed to fill that role in order for the company to continue. Okay. So that and and interestingly enough that's a unfortunately a not uncommon situation. Okay. Business owners especially when [clears throat] the business is um it's run by one individual. That doesn't mean [clears throat and cough]
8:35 that doesn't mean that there's only one person working there. It just means that there's only one person who has decision-making authority.
8:47 >> [clears throat]
8:48 >> So when that is the case and that person has not set up a formal succession plan, but and when I say a formal succession plan, what I mean is something in writing that uh that in the case of a corporation there there there is a corporate resolution adopting it. Okay? something like that that formally allows the corporation to act under the succession plan. In the absence of that, the the deedent could have told could tell
9:24 someone, "Okay, I want you to take over the business." But that means nothing [clears throat] in the eyes of the probate court. Okay? And that's because once the [clears throat] deedent is gone, there's no evidence, at least legally binding evidence, that you know, such was the wishes of the deedent. Um, and more to the point for a corporation which is a a legal person. Okay, in order for the corporation to act typically and and I'm not giving legal
10:00 advice here, I just know this as a matter of business. In order for the corporation to act, there has to be, you know, corporate resolutions and that sort of thing. So that's so for those of you who are business owners or professionals who are advising clients who are business owners, okay, even if you're doing what you think is a simple estate plan, uh if there is not a business succession plan, either separately or as an adjunct to that estate plan, your job isn't done. Okay?
10:35 because that business will likely get get caught up in the probate uh or or in I should say in the administration not necessarily a probate but in the administration of the deedence's estate and and has to be dealt with uh with some additional work. Okay. So [clears throat] even if the business is owned by a trust. Okay. So presumably now the trustee has the authority to oversee the
11:12 business in in the absence of a succession plan. But number one, does that trustee have the knowledge to oversee that particular type of business? And if not, does the trust give the trustee the authority to uh appoint people or hire people in that business to keep the business going or to do whatever needs to be done? Number one. And then number two, will banks and other entities accept the trustees
11:50 uh uh administration of the business if you will uh you know outside of or in the absence of I should say a formal succession plan that has been adopted by corporate resolution etc. Okay. So these are these are the kinds of issues that are initially raised and they can cause a tremendous amount of chaos for the business for its employees for maybe there are some co-owners who are not who
12:26 don't own the majority of the business for the customers and clients of the business even for people who have a responsibility to regulate the business or to like in the case of a property management company to there are all kinds of intersections between the company and regulators even though they're not directly regulating the business they're you know looking to regulate the properties managed by a property management company. Okay. So all of those become complications that that have uh with that that have to be
13:02 dealt with in order to you know keep that business going at least in in the interim. Okay. So [clears throat] uh so so you know one of the first decisions that an administrator I'm going to call it a personal representative because it could be could be a trustee could be an executive could be a courtappointed administrator. So, one of the first decisions and and perhaps
13:37 to make visav that company is uh are they going to continue to operate the company? Are they going to take a pause and and then, you know, sort of figure out what to do beyond there? Are they going to shut it down? Are they going to sell it? Okay. And there's a difference, right, between shutting it down and selling it. Shutting it down means it's just shut down. That's it. Uh selling it means that it's put on the market in an attempt to monetize the business as an asset. Okay? And
14:12 [clears throat] those those decisions will rest on a a number of issues. One is the estate's liquidity. Can the estate afford to continue to operate the business? Maybe the business operates or has been operating at a loss um and it was in some kind of turnaround and and so uh you know the the u the executive I'm sorry the deedent was contemplating
14:47 maybe selling some assets in order to fund the ongoing operations of the business while it went through turnaround. Okay. Well, now now that the deedent is gone, if that isn't part of an approved uh succession plan, it may be that the liquidity in the estate won't allow for, you know, such a decision on the part of the per personal representative. For example, the personal representative may need to pay estate taxes and maybe needs all that liquidity and possibly more in order to
15:24 pay the estate taxes. Okay? So, he doesn't have the option of taking that money and using it to pay to tr you know for operations to turn the business around. Okay. On on the other hand, the business structure uh may be such that if it's a sole proprietorship, it may be as a matter of law that once the deedent died, the business died with him because legally the business and the deedent are the same and so now that business no longer exists. Okay, this is one of the reasons why
16:01 with even a simple business it it you know this is something to talk to your lawyer and accountant about but it may make sense to form some kind of entity an LLC corporation etc. [snorts] Okay. And it may also depend on court oversight. Though the personal representative may have what seems like a perfectly viable plan to continue the operations of the business, that doesn't mean the court has to approve it. Okay? The court may look at the issues differently and the court may look at the situation and say, "Wait, you want
16:37 to spend, you know, 10% of the estate's assets in an effort to turn around this business." But I I don't see that that's a viable plan. And so I'm not going to approve the expenditure of that 10% of assets. Um you're going to have to close the business down or liquidate it. You're going to have to sell it. Right? So all of those can play into what happens with a business uh when um when a business owner dies. Okay, let's take a quick break. We'll be back for more.
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17:51 or visit magnumprops.com. So, I'm talking about um I'm Kevin, the host of Trustates Weekly. I'm talking about what happens when a business owner dies and [snorts] what's going to happen to the business. So, as a client or customer of the business, okay, what's going to happen with you? Okay. And that's [clears throat] that that's really what I want to focus on here. Um, from the heirs standpoint, the
18:27 fact that the uh that the estate owns a business isn't doesn't is isn't too much different than that the estate owns any other kind of asset. There may be some issues as to about you know who may take over running the business among the heirs if that's a possibility. Those kind of things talk about those another day. What I want to focus on here is what happens if you're a client or customer of the business and and now the business is essentially um tied up in the administration of an estate. So
19:04 [clears throat] first and foremost um generally speaking existing contracts remain enforcable. Okay. So when when someone dies, okay, their estate essentially takes their place from a legal standpoint. Okay, so if the business is a sole proprietorship that any contract the business had is now a contract uh with the estate as opposed to the individual who has now who is now deceased. Now if the business
19:42 is a corporation or an LLC, that entity remains a distinct entity from the estate itself. However, whatever share of that entity was owned by the deedent is now owned by the estate. Okay? So let's say that the business was uh was done as an LLC and it had two members. the deedent owned 75% and and somebody else owned 25%. So now [clears throat]
20:17 the the estate owns 75% of the business and the other person presumably who's still alive uh owns the other 20 still continues to own the other 25%. Okay. So, as [clears throat] a legal entity, the business continues to operate as an LLC, but the owners of it changes. Now, while the the the uh
20:52 contracts generally speaking, continue, how they're carried out may change. Okay? So for example, goods that are paid for um but uh or services that are paid for um but have not been delivered, they may become claims against the estate. Okay. So let's say the business is a clothing business. Okay. and and and you as a customer bought
21:27 maybe it supplies uniforms for for your company. Okay. And and you bought $10,000 worth of uniforms. Okay. So that contract is still binding between your company and and either the business own now that's now owned or partially owned by the estate or to the estate directly. Okay. But uh will the estate make those uniforms and fulfill the contract? Will the estate return the money? Will the estate contract out the work in order to
22:04 fulfill the contract? All of those are possibilities and the personal representative could seek court approval to do any of those things depending on what is best for the estate. Okay. And this is this is the key issue here. Whereas the business itself [clears throat] was was able to manage its self-interest against the interest of its clients and customers. [clears throat] The personal representative
22:40 has a fiduciary duty to consider only the best interests of the estate. And so that and so if that best interest comes at some uh disadvantage, we'll say to a client or customer, the court may still approve that action on the part of the personal representative to the detriment of the client or customer. Okay? And so while it, you know, it may have been a a a
23:15 good deal that you got in terms of cost of uniforms from this company, the and it may be because of that, the personal representative goes to the probate court and says, "Your honor, um, I want to uh return the money from this contract because fulfilling the contract would cost the estate more money than it received from the client. Okay? And and the court may very well say, you know, look at the analysis and say, I agree
23:51 with you, personal representative, and the court hereby orders that the money is returned and and the contract is is is deemed fulfilled or or is deemed canceled or however the the court would look at that. Okay. So this becomes you know one of the big issues in terms of uh dealing with a business that either the business itself is now you know owned by an estate or the estate is the ownership is part of the ownership of the business. Okay. So, and I'm not talking just about orders, by the way.
24:27 Warranties, subscript subscriptions, service agreements. They can be honored. They might be honored. They might be modified. They might be terminated depending on the estate's resources and depending on what is best for the estate. Okay. So, as a client or customer, then how do you protect yourself? Well, first of all, you need to gather all contracts, receipts, invoices, emails, proof of payments to document any claim you have against the company. Okay? And
25:04 indeed, you may need to file a former a formal creditor's claim in order to uh sustain your position visav this company. uh especially if the company itself is now subject to probate as opposed to for example being under the administration of a trustee. Okay? And and I I did a whole show on creditors claims just uh sometime within the last few weeks. So I I invite you to go check that show out to see how a creditor's
25:39 claim works at least here in California. Uh but there are deadlines and and there are there are forms that need to be filled out. Typically there has to be docu documentation provided that provides evidence of the claim. Okay. So all of that needs to be pulled together in order to protect your position. Okay? And [clears throat] just like the personal representative is going to be examining whether it makes sense for the company to continue operating, you too may need to,
26:17 you know, examine and make a decision as to whether uh continuing your your relationship with this company uh makes sense or does it expose you to too much too much risk. Um especially if if there's you know prepaid services or long-term services that you're expecting from the company and you're not sure the company is going to uh survive the administration uh you know of you know concurrent with or not concurrent as a result of uh the deedent passing. So all of that may
26:53 cause you to say hey you know what [clears throat] uh I think I'm going to terminate this relationship. Okay. And and that may be the smart thing to do. By the way, just because you assuming that you have the authority to terminate the relationship, meaning you're not contractually obligated to continue it, uh that all by itself wouldn't necessarily prevent you from nonetheless filing a creditor's claim. These are all somewhat complex legal issues and I would encourage you to get proper
27:30 legal advice, especially legal advice from an attorney who knows probate if probate is the issue or at least knows trust in probate law. Okay. Typical business attorneys do not necessarily have the knowledge and experience to deal with this kind of situation. It's a specialized area of the law, one in which you're going to want to make sure that you are properly advised. Okay? So your your regular lawyer may be great
28:07 at, you know, ad advising businesses, but it may mean it may be that you need to get a specialist in in addition to get this figured out and to make sure that your your rights are protected, your legal rights are protected. Okay, so [clears throat] that that's protecting yourself uh financially. Okay. Protecting yourself more broadly typically will will be a matter of proper communication. Okay. Now I know for myself when I when
28:44 I am administrating an estate and especially when there is a business as part of it I tell the employees of the business from here on out all communication needs to be made in writing. typically that ma that means by email, okay? Not by not by conventional letter. Okay? Now, [clears throat] that doesn't mean they're never going to speak to anybody. What it does mean is if they do speak to somebody after that that discussion is done, they're going
29:19 to follow it up with an email confirming the conversation. Okay? And [clears throat and cough] what that does is it creates a written record of what was said. Okay? Now, again, I'm not advising you legally, but from a business standpoint, if I send an email to someone saying, "This is what we talked about," and they don't respond back, "No, you're incorrect." I'm I know I've got the stronger hand in terms of being able to, you know, determine, not
29:56 determine, but being able to present what happened. Because [clears throat] if what I say in my email is inaccurate, my response is, well, if if it was inaccurate, why didn't you say so at the time? Why are you saying so now? Right? That's just a kind of a common sense business issue. Okay. um as well. [clears throat and cough] So, for I think for the rest of the show, you got to count on periodic dead
30:32 going dead sounds because I'm I'm muting it so I'm not coughing in your ear. um as well um I tell the [clears throat] employees especially at the outset that whatever decisions need to be made uh especially anything that's not in the absolute routine course of business they need to run by me okay and that's because I'm the one who's ultimately responsible to the court okay now over time as I get to know the business, how
31:09 it operates, I get to know the people, how they handle matters, I may modify that because I'll I'll know I'll know more about it and and we'll I'll have have developed some trust with the people who work at the business etc. But especially in the very beginning, I need to be careful that an employee is not inadvertently binding the business or appearing to bind the business to something that cannot be delivered to a client or customer. Okay? So, I'm going to air on the side of caution at at the beginning
31:46 and then kind of, you know, see how things develop um thereafter. And that's one of the reasons why I limit communication to written channels. It's it's so that I have a record for the court. And so [clears throat] if I make a decision and later there's a dispute arising, I can go back I can go to the court and say, "Hey, here here's here's the written record. This is why the decision was made, etc." Okay? So, as the client or customer of of a
32:21 business that's, you know, again, either going through probate or is owned by an estate going through probate or for that matter, a trust that's being administrated, it's most likely going to slow down response times as the business navigates both the operational issues of having this new person uh essentially in charge and dealing with uh not so much legal compliance per se, but dealing with the added layer that comes from
32:59 having to make sure that that that uh decisions can be documented documented in court if necessary. Okay, let's take another break.
33:11 >> [clears throat]
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33:48 searching. So, we're talking about when a business owner dies and what uh you or what people who are customers and clients of that business need to know in order to as successfully as possible navigate dealings with this business that either now itself is going through probate or its uh owner or more likely major majority owner uh his estate is is
34:24 going through probate or is being administrated as part of you know part of the uh assets in a trust. Okay. So what can you expect from the personal representative that is the the uh executive the courtappointed administr administrator or the trustee of a trust right all of those are forms of personal representatives. So again I want to emphasize this that their legal duty is to the estate or to the trust. It is not directly to the clients [snorts] or to
35:01 the business itself per se. The business is an asset of that trust or an asset of that estate. Okay. And as such it needs it it the personal representative is going to look at it as as in the context of all the other assets and what makes sense for the estate as a whole and in the case where it's a probate how the court might interpret what is best for that estate. Okay. So
35:41 in a way there's there's there might be some secondguing going going on. So what I may think makes the most sense as a businessman. Okay. So in other words, if like if if I were literally the deedent and and instead of him dying and me be being the administrator or the personal representative of his estate, I I'm, you know, literally going to stand in his shoes. Okay? what decisions I would make
36:17 might be different than the decisions I I I might make as the personal representative who has a fiduciary responsibility to administrate that estate uh for the benefit of the estate and and essentially through that for the benefit of the heirs of the estate. eight. Okay, those are very very different. So let's say for example that the deedants heirs are all children. They're all minors.
36:53 Okay, and let's say further for whatever reason uh he's not married. Maybe he's divorced. Uh maybe he's he's a widowerower. Okay, or in the case of a woman she's a you know she she's she was a widow and then she died herself. Okay. So, is it in the best interest of those minor children for the business to keep operating? Okay. When they're too young to legally have any authority over the operation of the bis of the business
37:30 directly even after uh a a probate closes or even after a trust is settled. Okay. meaning there's always going to be someone who's going to have to uh oversee matters on their behalf until they become adults. Is that a good situation for these in which uh uh in in in which these heirs to be? Okay. And and there's no there's no set answer to that. It it the answer is it depends on a whole range of factors. Now, by the
38:06 way, maybe you know a couple of the heirs are teenagers, okay? 16, 17 years old, and maybe they've actually been working in the business part-time for several years. And the hope or expectation was that when they were old enough, they were going to take over the business. And they're there's they're very desirous of doing that. That's a very different situation from one where the minor children are literally children five, six, eight, 10
38:41 years old. they have no connection to the business and it's going to be, you know, a decade or more uh before they're old enough to legally be able to act on behalf of the business, assuming that it's, you know, out of out of probate or or the the you know, the the trust has been prop has been settled. So those those are the kinds of issues that are going to need to be wrestled with that that impact you as a customer or client or impacts uh
39:17 the the people who do business with you know with this company. Okay. Now having said that it makes it generally makes sense for the personal representative to sort of manage or administrate the situation in a way that the estate cooperates with what's happening with the company and its clients and customers uh while all this gets worked out. Okay. So it it it wouldn't do to, you know,
39:54 purposely antagonize them. Now, having said that, I've had situations where the clients were antagonistic from day one because they were mad that the deedent died and left no succession plan and now maybe their money is tied up or, you know, whatever whatever is going on that they don't like. Okay. So what I would say is as the client or customer of a company that you know is going through the administration of an estate, it
40:29 doesn't do you any good either to be hostile to the personal representative. Okay? In most cases, it's there's nothing he can do. Okay? First of all, if he hasn't officially been appointed yet, there is nothing he can do. Okay? So, you can you can call up and complain to him all you want. And and the response you're almost for sure going to get is I I hear your concerns. There's nothing I can do until the court formally appoints me.
41:05 That's just the reality of an estate going through a probate. Now by the way um there if this is a trust in theory it things should go more smoothly in the sense that the the successor trustee takes over but that doesn't necessarily mean that that will be the case. So to the extent that there is uh shall we say bad blood between the successor trustee and the beneficiaries under the trust.
41:42 Okay. There could be legal action taken to try and prevent that trustee from acting. Okay. And so if there's a challenge to the trustes actions okay a perempter challenge in essence. So while it would seem like the trustee stepping stepping into that role now has the power to act, the trustee may be reluctant to act while the issue of his authority is before the court. Okay?
42:17 Minimally, it's going to slow things down because he's going to be more careful about how things are done, how they're documented, etc. so that he doesn't find himself in, you know, a very problematic situation when he has to or if he has to defend his his actions as a trustee in court. Okay. Now, here's here's the other thing. You may have been very close friends with the deedent and had kind of a
42:52 preferred client relationship with the business. Such a situation has no bearing in a situation where the uh business uh where the operation of the business is now being overseen by the probate court. Okay, that kind of preferential treatment could potentially get the uh personal personal representative into trouble if he continues it. Okay? Especially if
43:30 it's prejuditial to the best interests of the estate and eventually to the heirs. So I have a situation uh or I I had a situation where uh um the estate was co co-owner of a property with another individual and this individual uh claimed to be a very very very close friend of the deedent and therefore he wanted certain things done because of
44:07 that close friendship. Okay. Now, what he wanted done was not in the best interest of the estate and so I refused to do it. But it caused a lot of bad feeling on his part because he felt you know because he was such a close friend of the deedent you know I I should have done what he asked. So I I I will tell you this is kind of my rule. The more often somebody claims to be a close friend of a of a deedent
44:42 and the the the the closer they cla claim that friendship was, the more skeptical I am. Okay? Because in my experience, that's being that's typically being said in order to try and get some kind of advantageous uh situation, getting me to agree to some kind of advantageous situation on the part of the person who's claiming to be such a close friend. Okay? So [clears throat] if you if you were genuinely a close
45:20 friend of the deedent, it's perfectly fine to say so. Uh but I but I would advise you again from a business standpoint. You may be doing yourself a disservice if you try and trade on the closeness of that friendship. Okay. I I I'm pretty sure that my experience with so-called close friends of the deedent is not unique. Okay. So the the the court is not going to allow preferential treatment and the trustee of a trust should not allow pre
45:57 preferential treatment of clients and customers especially if it's to the detriment of the beneficiaries of that trust. Okay. So, you know, keep that part of the situation kind of separate from the business dealings from from the dealings with the estate. Again, it's it's I'm not saying you shouldn't tell the personal representative you were, you know, a good friend of of the uh of the deedent, but but leave it at that. Don't try and
46:33 make it part of the uh negotiations or arrangements on the business side of things. By the way, I I will say in contrast, the the the people who who I find were probably genuinely close friends of a deedent are the ones who typically say to me, you know, I was a good friend of such and such. Uh I I I unfortunately this this looks from what you're telling me, this is going to be a mess. Hey, just please let me know how I can help. Uh, and in the meantime, we'll work this through as best we can. Now, by the way,
47:08 that's how you would hope that a close friend of a deedent would act, right? And so, you know, if if indeed you are a close friend of someone who's passed away, leaving behind a business and and you have dealings with that business. So I I would encourage you to act the way you would have to your close friend. I.e. how can I help you? Okay. Okay. He's gone. And but but gosh, if he was such a close friend, hopefully you want what's best for his for his heirs, his his spouse, his wife, his children, or
47:45 or whoever, right? So it it's so I I I just it's just some food for thought for you um as you think about this. Okay. So um finally when does it make sense for you as a client or customer to move on? So, uh, first of all, if the probate if if it's a probate and the estate is insolvent or struggling and clients may only re receive partial payment on
48:21 claims or maybe nothing at all, you know, at that point it may make sense to move on. it you spending money on attorney's fees to try and get water from a well that's run dry you know may not make any sense from you know from a business standpoint okay and and you know don't be hesitant to have those kind of candid discussions with the personal representative it's perfectly reasonable to say you know what do you think are the chances that I'm going to get paid right and uh uh Look, I I I've
48:57 had those conversations and I let them know, look, this isn't this it's, you know, if it's a claim, you know, that's reasonable and and and is and I'm, you know, and I'm I think it should be paid and there's liquidity to pay it, I'll say. So, on the other hand, if it's a claim that I don't think should be paid, I'm going to reject the claim. Okay? And and and you know, why did you reject it? Well, the fact of the matter is there's no money to pay it. So, the the the estate is insolvent. So, you can go ahead and file an appeal, but you
49:33 can't get blood from a stone, as they say, or something like that. So, you know, ask the at least ask the questions, but but you know, don't throw good money after bad. Okay? is if if you're re if you're confident that you you do have the facts of the situation, you know, review what review what actions you may want to take in that light. Okay? And [clears throat] you know, consider the disruption, the unpredictability. How is this going to [clears throat] impact your own
50:10 [cough]
50:15 >> [clears throat]
50:19 >> How is the unpredictability and the uh dis and potential disruption to your operations and your plans? How is that going to affect your business or your maybe you know your just your ability to live your life? Okay, it may not make sense for you to continue and you may just, you know, sadly but have to decide, look, I need to move on. I can't I can't continue to operate my business in this atmosphere of of uncertainty. Okay? And so the practical decision may be for you to find a new provider uh
50:57 rather than wait for the probate to get resolved. that just, you know, uh you are not there is no moral obligation. I I put on my rabbi hat now for a moment, right? There's no moral obligation for you to continue doing business with a company that's going through probate or if it's owned by a trust where there's there's issues of, you know, who is going to have the authority as trustee, etc. you're you're not bound to sit through those to your own detriment. And so in the end, while you may have legal
51:35 re redress, the cost may be too high. The cost, not just the financial cost, the cost of uncertainty, etc. to your business. So, these are the kinds of issues I would encourage you to consider if you end up as the customer or client of a company uh that's going through the administration of an estate or that's connected to the administration of an estate. [snorts] Okay. For for the legal and accounting issues, again, reach out to your lawyer, your accountant. if they don't have experience and knowledge specifically in
52:11 in dealing with probates and trusts, make sure you get that specialized knowledge in addition to theirs. Okay. So, I thank you very much for joining me on my my first show back after a week of being sick. I um [clears throat] you know um hope hope that you know the uh the uh muting of my microphone didn't make it too difficult to follow. And um excuse me, [clears throat] I am back to a I hope to a full slate of shows uh this week. So, tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Tomorrow, Tuesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show Business Lessons from
52:46 the Military. Uh Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show [clears throat] uh People Making Money. And I think if I remember correctly, let's see. Yes. And on uh Thursday is at 5:00 p. p.m. Pacific time is my show Jiggers's Place. Whereas the week comes to an end, we'll sit back and have a cocktail and a schmoo. So I thank you very much for joining me. If you have any questions, comments, thoughts, [snorts] uh feel
53:21 free to post them in social media. All the links will be in the show notes. If it's something personal, you can email me. My email address is there as well. If it's something within my area of expertise, I will be happy to respond. And and if and if it's something that I need that you need to seek legal or accounting advice on, I will uh let you know. And if you need help finding um a good lawyer or accountant, I'll be happy to help you with that as well or financial advisor. So again, thank you so much for joining me today. Wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and
53:56 signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell.