0:01 people often confuse conversation and dialogue okay and there's a big difference about it have you ever been in the fortunate position to be sitting in a room with other male adults watching a sports day yes have you ever been in a very fortuit fortuitous position of listening to the talk about the game after the game yes they all watch the same game on the same television at the same time has any new information exchanged between them
0:36 in discussing the game absolutely nothing that's a conversation who are you and where are you going what do you want together we'll find the ideal path on the way to wow show with your host kevin bennell on this episode of the way to wow show we're going to be looking at some new ideas in the relationship realm in the mental pillar of the three pillars of attainment i invited back raphael lapin who did a session on dealing with difficult people
1:13 and this time we're going to really focus down on dealing with family members dealing with people most close to us in our lives and get some thoughts from rafael on how we can better understand them and create closer more mutually nurturing relationships but first will cutting is going to make a cocktail yeah kevin thank you so much for having me back again i really appreciate it so i know that our theme today is going to be relationships so something that's always
1:48 inspired me that i love every time i go into a grocery store is we see all these beautiful summery fruits and stuff from all over the place we've got cherries from mount rainier washington and we've got limes from mexico and all these amalgamations of different beautiful things coming together is what really makes los angeles part of what it is and it's so inspiring for me i'm a very impulsive shopper too so when i see all these beautiful things that are all laid out in front of me i just want to grab everything so today for you guys i've made what i'm calling the la smash and is literally celebrating all of those different relationships with the different fruits and and herbs and everything coming together for one uh one sort of general focus
2:24 so what i've done first is i've created a little bit of a mint bed inside these guys here and then i'm gonna put a lot of all these different fresh fruits that are in season right now into this so i'm starting with the rainier cherries and we're going with a few slices of hot house cucumbers and mint and berries some of my favorite so we've got some fresh blackberries that are going into this and kind of the fun thing about this cocktail is it doesn't have to be the same every time it can be made consistently throughout the year but with whatever's in season whatever's inspiring you so that's kind of a fun little play on whatever's available
3:00 and then lastly i'm gonna throw a few little blueberries in there and this doesn't have to be an exact science this is uh something that again it's fresh it's available it's uh whatever's inspiring you as you're taking your own journey going through the grocery store so we've got a little bit of all these fruits together we've got a nice little beautiful almost fruit salad happening there i'm just gonna break these up and get some of the expressions in there again it doesn't have to be pulverized into oblivion so we're getting just some of those nice notes from each of those things maybe something you might even find at a local like fruit stand or a fruit car or something like that we're getting a little bit close to that sort of flavor profile so that's good that's looking beautiful and wonderful now there's a lot of mint
3:37 and different particulates in that so i'm gonna kind of press it down a little bit evenly with the ice to keep that generally at the bottom it will mix in and it will affect the flavor but i don't want it to be completely like you're just sucking up a fruit salad through the straw so we'll keep that down we've got that going and something that i'm a big big fan of i actually have two peach trees in my backyard so i took some fresh peaches i roasted them in the oven for a little while and then i juiced them and added some brown sugar so that's what we're getting from this in the singular cocktail you put three quarters of an ounce of my roasted peach juice it's a little bit darker it's a
4:13 little brown definitely peaches and a brown sugar can uh alter that color so it's gonna be a little bit murky um and probably won't be your like most brightest inspiring like light green sort of cocktail but i promise you it'll be delicious and it will taste like summer so we've got some of the fresh peach juice in there and then for the singular cocktail would be one ounce of freshly squeezed lemon juice since i am doubling this up for the show we're going to be using two ounces there we go all these smells are just wonderful as everything's popping up and spreading the mint and the cucumber and the fresh citrus and i already know that
4:49 this is just going to come out fantastic and i've also juiced some fresh ginger just to give a little bit of a spice a little bit of a kick to it it's not going to be spicy so half ounce for each cocktail but when you add just the right note of spice to something that's very complex it will really open those things up and make that flavor last a lot longer and come out even more pronounced throughout the drink we've got all the oh i forgot the most important thing the alcohol we definitely need that so we're using a very large cocktail uh this is the la smash i'm using our los angeles vodka something locally made just makes the
5:24 most sense to have that in this drink so since it is in a bigger glass and it's going to be going a little bit of a ways between both of those i'm happy to put two full ounces in each drink now we've got a complete cocktail yes i don't need a ton of ice i don't need to be completely diluted and completely separated because i'm actually going to top this off with just a little bit more ginger beer and that's gonna help accentuate a lot of those flavors that we've already put into that i'm using a gosling's ginger beer
6:00 one of the originals i'm just gonna top that guy back up and again it doesn't always mix the entire way through so you want to give it just a little bit of a lift to make sure it's consistently flavored throughout the entire experience and then we top it off with some of our favorite things that we've already put in there so i'm going to add more mint and more fruit and whatever i feel like it because why not so we've got some cucumbers and some mint and absolutely i feel like my summer is not right without rainy or cherries in it and then i just want some color so i'm gonna throw some more raspberries in there too beautiful so there you are guys nice
6:36 light refreshing fruity cocktail that's not coated in sugar the la smash you guys enjoy let's take it over there [Music] all right gentlemen a couple of la smash cocktails something light and refreshing to keep the tongue cool on these warm days thank you welcome thank you very much absolutely absolute pleasure thank you this is a great idea by the way of uh having a cocktail before a serious interview it brings to mind the story about uh president lincoln oh yeah
7:11 people came to complain about him to him about lieutenant general ulysses s grant and said mr president your lieutenant general is always drunk to which uh lincoln responded and he said um i'm your commander-in-chief and i command you to go find out what the general is drinking and give it to all the officers [Laughter] cheers let's try this out yeah
7:49 wow i'm not even sure what all this is well this is this is yeah this is amazing yeah this is good plus i get on my fruit for the day tremendous really good thank you well thank you so much for coming back you know you have the most viewed episode of the show oh that's wonderful do i get some sort of clock or something to put on the wall you get my hearty congratulations so you know
8:24 talking to to my partners i said you know we we've got to have rafael back and i want to dig a little bit deeper into this issue of how we deal with difficult people and i thought this time we would focus on family members i think it's it's it's a different dynamic than strangers i think it's it's it's much more complex we bring you know baggage from you know our whole life right um so i thought i'd ask you if you
9:01 can address what you see as some of the unique issues of of dealing with difficult family members or dealing with family members in general and and and give us some some thoughts on on how we can do a better job with that certainly certainly um well probably when i get a call about mediating a family dispute um it's kind of my worst nightmare being realized because the worst disputes are family disputes you know you've got siblings arguing over a trust and they haven't spoken to one another for who
9:36 knows how long or you've got um [Music] spouses arguing over issues sometimes in a divorce situation sometimes not or you've got parents and children um arguing and we speak about family disputes typically there's history that needs to be dealt with and we've got to be careful when we're trying to resolve a family dispute that the history past doesn't inform the way the movement forward but what the history does do is as long as parties aren't feeling that they've heard and understood um that history is going to
10:11 abstract any further uh potential for resolution um so so it's necessary for the parties to be able to vent and liberate themselves in terms of talking about the history and feeling that the history issues have been uh acknowledged and and expressed and communicated and heard and understood before you can start resolving the dispute moving forward um [Music] so usually i say you know the way i look at is a mediation which involves that kind of issue needs to be um
10:48 broken up into two stages where there is some part of the um mediation which is dedicated to allowing the parties to express themselves in a constructive and productive kind of way the problem is sometimes when you start speaking about past histories it becomes a cycle of blame and counter blame and and um reaction and counter reaction and defensiveness and we've got to be careful to avoid that kind of situation but the history needs to be dealt with and that was part of mandela's um i think uh very very clever idea when he introduced in south africa um the the the commissions of truth and
11:23 conciliation and that was the purpose of the commissions not to not to um indict anybody or or um arrest and try anybody but to allow the parties the anc and the nationalist government representative to express themselves to talk about past history how they experience that past history without judgment but at least that each party can at least acknowledge and understand what it was like for the other party so so in family disputes that's a really really important part uh first of all um in allowing that history to to be expressed
11:59 um another part of family disputes or any dispute for that matter really doesn't matter um but i think it becomes um significant a significant abstraction in family disputes and that is um when we are dealing with someone else who's not ourselves even a family member it could be a spouse it could be a brother it could be a sister we need to appreciate the fact that we're very very different and we're not the same typically we try to assume they're going to be like us or that they're expecting us to be like them in any relationship um
12:35 they are very very different to us and it's important that in engaging in that difficult conversation in that relationship i view the other party as a subject to study and understand rather than to accuse and and and um blame in terms of who they are and the richest relations that i've had have been the relationships of where there's been a lot of learning about one another um acceptance are we different accepts that different things that impact them maybe due to past history maybe due to
13:10 psychological makeup could be a host of reasons which isn't that important but the key is that they different to me and i need to embrace that difference and and and um uh really try to understand and accept the differences and learn about those differences the amount of examples that i give always bring it back to international relations um in america's foreign policy and international relations they haven't understood this and you can't try to impose an american democracy on uh a tribal uh culture in southern africa or anywhere else in
13:45 africa or um an emirates or uh sheikhdom in the middle east um or even on a a communist country they think different the way we think they experience things different the way we experience so we've got to understand and embrace the differences and work within the framework of those differences but not to try to make them like me or make me like them and and that's one of the things that i always say about the difference between heterosexual marriages or versus same-sex marriages and that is
14:20 that the heterosexual marriages allow us to really grow because the difference between man and woman is so great and it allows us to really grow in terms of understanding those differences and embracing and thriving on those differences but it requires a study just like i would study any uh any subject for that matter i need to understand them learn about them and understand that i'm learning the things that may be very different to me but that's perfectly okay so i'd like to dig into this issue of of you know dealing with differences
14:55 so you know you take family members if it's a let's say siblings they grew up in the same family environment it seems like they would be very much the same um whereas you know you you take a husband and wife so they first of all they're as you mentioned they're different genders but second of all you know they they may have grown up in very different environments and and yet a lot of times the the knee-jerk reaction to finding out
15:30 there's there's a difference between me and you is fear right so how do we deal with really how do we first of all how do we find out what are the differences and how do we do that in a way that doesn't trigger a fear response well so the first i mean in terms of finding out that there are differences through dialogue and conversation and effects of probing and questioning but effective probing questioning is of no use um if the recipient doesn't have what i call a constructive curiosity that he has an excitement about learning
16:06 about somebody else and appreciating the differences in the fact that there are differences and and i want to understand those differences um and and uh accepting the fact or embracing the fact even that understanding each other's differences will make our relationship a lot closer uh not not make it further apart um every individual is an entire discipline an example i like to use is biology your listeners probably won't know what biology is but i think this is brilliant biology do
16:42 you know biology i have no idea well that's why i like to bring it up purely for the entertainment value of it i've never even heard of it so correct correct and and and that's why i'm bringing it up biology is actually the study of moss you know that green stuff that grows in dark moist places on rocks and all that sort of stuff that's biology the study of moss and when we approach the study of moss for example if we happen to have a bizarre interest in it uh we approach not knowing anything about and you know not knowing how much of what these to learn about it but we approach it with a new excitement of learning
17:17 um when we approach somebody else whether somebody we've lived with for a long time or whether it's somebody new um you know we want to approach it as a new study as i might approach the study of biology if i would have an interest in it um that's an exciting subject to me i want to know more about i want to know you know some of the things that impact them that affect them uh how do they think how do they experience things um and and i think if we're able to understand that differences are valuable not that they are hardships in any kind of a way
17:52 and accepting differences i think it's a very very important step in the exploration of those differences and again i use the word again the embracing of those differences how do we listen with an open mind so that we can really understand the differences and how do we i don't know speak with an open heart so we can excuse me expose the differences that we have to someone else maybe someone who's hurt us in the past well i'll i'll try to answer that question as
18:27 succinctly as i can given the time we have um [Music] people often confuse conversation and dialogue okay and there's a big difference about it have you ever been in the fortunate position to be sitting in a room with other male adults watching a sports day yes have you ever been in a very fortuit fortuitous position of listening to the talk about the game after the game yes they all watch the same game on the same television at the same time
19:02 has any new information exchanged between them in discussing the game absolutely nothing that's a conversation dialogue means that we have a conversation but i've learned something from you that i did not know before and you've learned something from me that you did not know before okay that's being engaged in a dialogue um so when we are engaged in a conversation with a family member or anybody ready for that matter just the subject of a discussion that happens to be family members we want to make sure in a significant conversation obviously we want to make sure that we're engaged
19:37 in dialogue not in conversation and one of the things is to ask yourself during that dialogue is there anything new that i'm hearing now that i didn't know before [Music] and you can ask the other party after you've spoken and had a a nice productive and constructive and purposeful uh session of dialogue is there anything new that you've heard from me now that you didn't know before and that then helps you sort of pull out and extract the new issues that might be a sort of
20:13 pivot of what the differences are um so i find that quite a useful tool so what if you're in dialogue with someone who [Music] continually professes not to be learning anything new even if you know you think you're exposing a lot of new information for them is is there a way we can encourage the other person to i don't know look more deeply or listen more carefully
20:48 to what they're hearing or well well you know you could you can always try to say was it nothing you're not even something small i'm not looking for anything necessarily dramatic but was anything even small in terms of maybe the passion with which i feel this particular thing whatever it might be you can maybe probe and impress them a little bit and if they don't continue accept that and then continue the conversation and discussion um you know just allow it to run its course and and run sort of natural course but usually you'll find that if there's
21:24 productive dialogue going on um at some point there will be flashes of uh revelation okay um in which both parties will understand it's important take those out and use those to define and identify a difference um you know for example you might find that you're involved with somebody else and you may have a very good sense of humor and be able to tease and take the teasing they may be very different and they have they may have had a family relative to tease them as a youngster and as a result of that they experience that in a very very different way
22:00 it was important there to highlight that and so you know when i tease it's not out of any malicious place it's out of my experiences and my sense of humor but i can perfectly understand how you experience that i will certainly try to alter my behavior with regard to that um but the dialogue is the key to have that dialogue and to understand the dialogue is a learning conversation it's not for me to get my point across it's almost like for me to teach the other person about me about me yeah this is who i am i want you to learn more about who i am
22:35 and not because i want you to be like me but i want you to be able to appreciate some of the differences between us and i would like to learn more about you um in order that i can appreciate some of the differences from your perspective and then to to navigate those differences as we move forward and and we want to do this kind of checking in periodically throughout a dialogue right we don't want to wait till the end correct correct correct any time you pick up at all any time you you pick up a key point as even if it's small you want to pull that out polish it up and give it back as a statement of if i
23:11 understand correctly what i'm hearing here is this is something that's important to you and i may have not necessarily even appreciated that or evaluated that as a priority for you well you know once again the time zoomed by i got the wrap it up sign yeah you know we're gonna have to have you back another time well i'll be happy and i'm sure will will be happy to make up another coffee yes absolutely [Laughter] rafael thanks so much for for uh making a return appearance uh thank you so much now this is a pleasure now
23:48 um i certainly hope your audience will uh um listen and and challenge and question and and maybe use some of the information that we were able to sort of let us emerge out of our discussion to to an effective benefit wonderful thank you when we work in the relationships realm of the mental pillar we can really you know as they say take rafael's advice to the bank think about the difference between a conversation and a dialogue that dialogue is is is there to learn for us
24:24 to teach the other person the relationship about us and for us to learn about that other person and so we need to periodically check in with them and say have you learned anything new based on what i've said or here's what i think i'm learning about you that i didn't know before it's very very powerful sitting and listening to rafael i think of times recently where i've had that kind of dialogue with someone close to me and it's really made a difference
25:01 not only in just my understanding of that person but honestly and how deeply i love that person and how closely connected i felt to that person courage at all times my friends especially when you're dealing with relationships don't let fear get in the way of getting closer to the people that you care about courage isn't the absence of fear it's being afraid and doing what you need to do anyway that's why i urge you to be courageous each episode
25:39 marie you are still my pal darling [Music] [Music]
26:25 you