0:02 Who are you? And where are you going? What do you want? [Music] Hello and welcome to Trust and Estates Weekly. I'm your host, Kevin Bemel, and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about estate planning and probate and trust administration. uh primarily from the standpoint of professionals like myself who do this for a living, but also for you if you
0:40 are planning going through an estate planning process or have questions about it, may need to update it and and just in general want to make sure that your finances are are handled properly. So, uh, today I'm going to talk about, uh, a subject that, uh, comes up unfortunately far more often, uh, than those of us who are professionals, uh, would wish it does, I guess, is the best way to put it. And it's it's the issue of a contested
1:15 intestate succession. So, I can tell you that outside of the trusts uh with which I deal, um the the probates I handle uh tend to be in that category. I think that's one of the reasons why they they a professional fiduciary ends up administrating these estates. And and this is the absolute best argument I can make in favor of
1:50 the necessity for people to have estate plans. Uh I'm going to go through six of the most common problems that arise when someone dies in test eight. uh and the this six most common contested issues and I'm going to give you some examples uh from my practice without naming names or citing case numbers although what I'm going to talk about is is a matter of of public record which is of course I I'm not going to talk about this as one of the six points but
2:26 when there's a contested intestate probate all of the dirty laundry inevitably gets um gets uh aired in court. It it's in the public record now and it's it's just it's it's it's just ugly there. There's no other way to to describe it. So, um, uh, I'm I'm going to kind of get right into this and and like I said, I'm I'm going to use some
3:02 some examples from my own practice so you can see how some of these things play out. Okay. So ju just to be you know to be clear we're talking about a situation where somebody died they did not have a will they did not have a trust and so now their estate is going to be administrated according to the laws of intestate succession for the particular state in which they uh in which they lived were a resident really they could have died somewhere else uh but that doesn't mean just because they didn't die in the state of their
3:38 residence doesn't mean that their estate will be probated there. It's almost for sure going to be probated in the state in which they lived. Okay? So, you can look at driver's license, voting records, whatever. That's probably where the the person's estate will be probated. Okay? So um now assuming that the the person has heirs, this is oftentimes where the con contests come from in the sense that uh if if the if the deedent has only one
4:13 heir, then there's really nothing to contest. Okay? Because it's just that one person's going to get everything. Okay? And so they're they're most likely not going to argue with themselves. Okay? However, the mere fact that somebody died in testate leaves open the question of who is a valid heir. Okay. And so determining the heirs becomes the first issue. Okay. So, um, without a will, okay, that specifies
4:49 these people are my heirs, these other people are not my heirs, okay, virtually anyone can walk into court, not literally walk into court, but they can file documents claiming to be an heir. Okay? Now the reason that's a problem is because the resources of the estate are going to be will have to be spent determining whether in fact this person is a valid heir or not. Okay? And if
5:25 you've got a now even even if you've got a pretty clear situation so I'm I'm administrating in a state where a man died. He had one child. That child is his soul heir. He was not married at the time that he died. He had been married previously. He uh he and his wife were divorced for a long long time. He never got remarried. Okay. Again, had one child. Very clear according to the laws of descent and distribution in California that his one child is his sole legal heir. Okay. Notwithstanding
6:02 that, uh, at one of the hearings where I was being appointed as what's called a special administrator, okay, someone showed up and object objected to my appointment because this person claimed that she was an heir, okay? She claimed to be like a a cousin or a second cousin or something like that. Okay? And the court, not knowing any different, continued the hearing on having me appointed as the special administrator
6:39 pending resolution of the status of this woman. Okay. Now, we had I had covered all of this with my attorney and the other people involved. This woman, there were no cousins, okay, anywhere in the family. and second cousins are not close enough to to be included as an heir in an intestate succession. Okay, so this was this was clearly just this woman trying to essentially extort money out of the
7:14 estate. Okay. Nonetheless, okay, my attorney had to contact her attorney and, you know, explain to him, you know, how this was going to work. Um, and when the attorney saw that we were not going to cave in and just give her money to go away, he withdrew because he realized here was a here was a woman. She had no money of her own to pay him, right? and the estate was not going to pay her a dime. I made it clear, I'll spend $100,000
7:49 fighting her. I won't give her two cents to make her go away. That's essentially what I told the lawyer. Okay? Because I had been nominated by the legal heir, right? Why should I agree to give away his money to a complete in a complete fraud? Okay? Nonetheless, okay, the you know, the attorney gets paid. Okay. Now there was a delay in beginning the administration of the estate because the hearing got put off for I think about a month and a half. Okay. There were people who were angry about that who were clients of the
8:26 deedent big mess. Okay. And um so I have another another case that I'm handling where um there are again it's a a man died in testate. Okay. and he he left behind actually quite a number of of heirs. Okay, I think 10 in all. However, one of the heirs uh the deedent sister tried to exclude two of the legal heirs. Okay, they were
9:01 uh they were another brother and sister of theirs. Okay, but they they were they were older. Um, one of them was not uh mentally competent, so he didn't really know what was going on. Okay. And uh and then there was another heir, what would have been an 11th heir, uh who claimed he was the spouse of the deedent, but there was no record of any marriage. There was no record of any registered domestic partnership. Okay. Nonetheless,
9:36 this went on for 7 months and the issue of the the brother and sister of the deedent still hasn't been resolved. Only the issue of the uh potential uh husband has has been resolved at this point. Okay. And in the meantime, like I said, seven months went by. During that time, the administration of the estate could have been begun. And in fact, a lot of the most of the work, well, not most of the work, but probably at least half of the work could have been done and the
10:12 heirs would have been halfway to getting their inheritance. But instead, we're now, you know, I just got appointed a couple of weeks ago. We're now at the very beginning of this whole process, and there's still the issue of whether these two other people are legal heirs to be decided by the court. Okay. So, and and as a result of this fight, there is a lot of bad feeling between kind of the two sides. Um the ones who are
10:47 uh um working to make sure that every legal heir is um you know being being included in the estate. and the other one that's saying in fact they're try you know this side is trying to include people who are not legal heirs right now as the administrator it is not my job to say you're a legal heir you're not a legal heir it's my job to identify who are the legal heirs right so I'll attend the hearings on this issue and whatever the judge decides that's what it's going
11:22 to be okay my point in bringing up determine ation of heirs as the first issue in an intested intestate succession is it it takes a lot more time to to to deal with than if the if there was a will or a trust that specified who's going to inherit. Okay. Takes more money. Okay. Some of sometimes um these matters are not within the normal scope of the of the administrator and the lawyer uh
11:57 representing the administrator and so it could lead to their being able to claim extraordinary fees which is an added cost to the estate. Okay. And in the meantime, often when people know that they're going to be getting money from an estate, so there are companies that will advance them that money, okay? But they don't do it for free. And so if an air takes an advance, that means in the end they're going to get less money. And when these kind of delays come up,
12:33 heirs are more are are really uh more often they decide to go ahead and take the advance even though in the end it means less money because they they want the money, they need the money, whatever it is. Okay? And so they end up getting a smaller inheritance as a result of what they see as being these long delays. And they are often times long delays, but what they see is, you know, this is this this fighting is going to go on. We never know who's going to win, etc., etc., etc. Okay. So, a and aside from the time, the extra
13:09 expense, the wear and tear it takes on relationships is is of course lifelong. Okay? Rarely are these breaches uh ever fully resolved down the road. Now that the deedent is gone, oftenimes it is the deedent who kept these relationships together uh while he was alive. And when once that person is gone, oftent times that's it. The glue that held everything together is is gone. and and and every slight, every
13:45 jealousy comes to the four and and is played out now and and it just explodes I into into you know um a hot I you know if not a cold war basically. Okay. So uh determination of heirs can be very difficult right um you know birth certificates witness testimony all of these things may be required so a lot of other people are going to get uh involved in the probate now um and again a lot of bad
14:20 feelings okay so that's number one uh number two uh petition the the the um there may be competing petitions for someone to be the administrator of the estate. Okay. And often times that's where this that's where disputes between the heirs starts is uh you know you have an estate there's more than one heir. There's there there's already some distrust uh between the the heirs and so both of them file
14:56 petitions for administration. Okay. and they start making accusations against the other. Well, this one's this one's incompetent. This one's gonna steal. This one's going to do this. This one's going to do that. Okay? And now it all ends up in the lap of the judge, right? And it's up to the judge to figure out what to do. Okay? And and and as I mentioned in the beginning, this is often times where all get involved is someone will come a case will be embattled and the two sides can't come
15:32 to an agreement as to who the administrator should be. And so the judge will recommend, well, why don't you just hire a professional? That person has to be neutral. That person has to be bonded. and that way we can proceed. Uh because this this fighting, you know, it's it's never going to get us it's never going to get you anywhere. Okay. So, uh you know, I again another situation um where I've been asked to uh you know uh potentially be the administrator. So,
16:07 um a man died. He left behind his second wife uh to whom he's been married for over two decades at this point. Okay. And he left behind two children from his first marriage who are now, you know, grownup people in their 20s uh at least in their 20s. And now uh the now the in California the wife of a deedent has priority in appointing an administrator. And so that's that's what
16:43 the wife did. Uh and the the stepchildren basically her stepchildren turned around and said uh you know she's she's not she's not an heir. She's stealing money. she's doing all these horrible things. And so they nominated one of them to be the administrator. Okay. And and and now, you know, the dispute is has has heated up to the point where I've been asked to come in and uh you know, hopefully be appointed
17:18 and then, you know, straighten all of this out. And and by the way, uh in this particular case, the uh the uh stepchild who who is petitioning to be the administrator accused the the second wife of having uh stolen and sold certain assets. Okay. Meanwhile, those assets are they're I don't want to say what they are, but they're in the backyard of of the the house in which the deedent lived. Okay. But of course, the court doesn't know
17:53 this. The court doesn't go visit, you know, a residence or see pro, right? and and and so, you know, the court only knows that, you know, one side is accusing the other of dishonesty and theft and the other side is basically sitting in court crying because her husband died just a few months ago and and she's, you know, you know, her husband of of like I said over two decades um is gone and and and she wants to mourn and in the meantime all of this, you know, turmoil is going on.
18:28 Okay. So, another thing that a will does or or is it appoints an executive and and often times it will appoint uh a successor executive in case the first one either either predesceases the deedent or doesn't want to serve or something like that. Okay? So, it makes it clear who who's going to be the personal representative of the estate. And same with a trust. A trust appoints a a trustee or a successor trustee. Sometimes multiple layers of successor
19:03 trustees. So there's no question about who is going to be handling the administration. Okay. Without a will or a trust. Now it's up to the court court to appoint somebody and hence where the dispute uh comes from. Okay. Let's let's take a a sponsor break. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the
19:38 complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step. Magnum Properties, Inc. turning property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396 or visit magnumprops.com. So this is Trusted Estates Weekly and I'm your host Kevin Beml. I'm talking
20:13 about contested intestate uh probates, okay? and and the the most common issues that arise, how that relates to the intestate situation and and I mean I I'd like to give you some solutions to them. But unfortunately, these these situations often of off often take on kind of a life of their own and until the parties are exhausted either financially or emotionally uh
20:49 they they tend to go on and on or until they frustrate the court to the point where the court just you know the judge just sort of lays down the law. So I talked about uh determining who the lawful heirs are. That's that's a prime area of dispute. Another prime area of dispute is um who will be appointed to administer administrate the estate. Okay. Another area ripe for dissension that if there had been a will or a trust uh wouldn't be an issue. Okay. So next
21:24 are creditor claims and debts. So the one of the things the estate must do before the probate closes is it has to pay valid debts. Okay. So before the heirs get any money. Okay. All the all the valid debts of the estate have to be paid. And there's a process by which creditors submit their claims to the probate court and and establish that this is in fact a valid debt. Okay.
22:02 Uh now uh what happens in an intestate succession is uh because there's a lot of turmoil going on uh creditors are not uh notified or potential creditors are not notified in a timely way or a timely fashion. And so now creditors claims kind of pop up somewhat willy-nilly much to the frustration of the heirs who are counting on getting a certain amount of money and then they find out that there's some other debt.
22:38 Okay, so that's that's one problem. Another problem is that when heirs are already in a combative uh posture, so they may decide that they're, you know, they want to challenge all of these debts. So the administrator could, you know, be perfectly, you know, um could be perfectly sure that a debt is in fact valid. It was it was filed timely. proof of the debt was was provided and so it's there. Uh but
23:14 when there's already contention in the probate process, one or more heirs may decide to challenge that debt. And again, it it what it does is it leads to more time to to administrate the estate. It adds cost to the administration of the estate. Okay? And this can be especially difficult when a debt may mean the difference between the the heirs getting something and not getting anything at all. So I think a few weeks ago I talked about insolvent estates. Okay, that's an
23:52 estate where the debts are greater than the assets of the estate. And in in such a situation, often times because the heirs basically think they have nothing to lose, they will do everything they possibly can to delay the the the proceeding of administration and the eventual closing of probate. Since they're not going to get anything, and in many cases, it doesn't really cost them anything. They'll toss in documents disputing this, disputing that, and now, you know, it's all got to be dealt with. step by step through the probate process. So, uh
24:31 you know, again, when there's already contention going on, right, this just adds uh gasoline to the flames when something comes up that one or more of the heirs doesn't like now. And by the way, uh there's lots of things we don't like in this world. uh that that doesn't mean that they're uh you know invalid etc. Uh but you know what can happen is you know an an a a neutral administrator
25:06 like a professional fiduciary like me gets appointed you know they go through the uh the deedants's residence they find you know documentation they may find a promisary note okay so uh you know some individual was um was um uh you lent the deedent money. The deedent signed a note uh and and it's you know a copy of is there in his records and and so it you know there has to be a determination is this a valid debt right and if it is you know all of a sudden
25:43 the amount that the heirs are getting shrinks and and they're mad. So, uh, creditors claims and debts, you know, uh, this is another problem in an intestate succession. It it can be a problem in a in a succession where there's a will or a trust as well. But in the case of a trust, it doesn't have to go through court. It can be, you know, privately worked out. Um, in the case of a when there's a will, um, it that will is going to make for an more orderly probate process and so it's less likely
26:21 that something will sort of crop up uh, you know, at the last minute. Okay. Next, uh, mismanagement or misappropriation of assets. So, and I'm not talking about just allegations of mishandling and misappropriation. There could be actual mishandling and misappropriation. Okay? But what we're talking about here is a situation and this this often happens when one heir or maybe just some
26:56 of the heirs have access to the assets of the deedent and they may take it upon themselves to you know take some or all of of those assets. Okay. And then the heirs that don't have access to them, they may know about them. And so when the administration actually starts and an inventory is submitted to the court and they don't see certain things on that
27:32 inventory, they start wondering, well, what happened to X, Y, and Z? And this adds further this is a further area of dissension among the heirs. Right? So I'm I'm h handling a probate right now where the uh the heir of the deedent uh had uh essentially control over the assets. actually um his wife was made the administrator and she had control over the assets of the estate um
28:09 throughout about a 10-year period 10 year uh yeah I think it's about 10-year period uh during which a creditor was fighting to establish a valid claim while at the same time proving that a will was fraudulent. Okay. By the time that was that whole process was settled and in fact the creditor's claim was upheld by the probate court and the will that had been submitted to probate had been proven to be a fraud.
28:45 The only remaining asset was a house. Okay? Now let's be honest. The person had to have had a bank account somewhere. the person worked his whole life. There probably were some retirement accounts. Okay. All of those assets disappeared. And because the whole process took so long, there was essentially a, you know, the time to even get records on any of this had long since passed. So there was no way of knowing in reality
29:22 what other assets might have been there. Okay. And so in the end the creditor is on a certain level going to be defrauded uh by the heirs or by the heir and his his wife um who had who wrongly had control of the assets for so many years. So this was not a case of a claim or allegations of misappropriation. Almost for sure this is an actual misappropriation of of assets. But since nothing can be proved in court,
29:59 you know, it's it's just too bad for the creditor. Now, in other cases, and I I me I mentioned this example uh a little while ago. So um in the case of the the uh surviving spouse and and the stepchildren, so the stepchildren are claiming that the that that their stepmother uh stole certain property from the estate already um even though at least some of it is sitting in the backyard of the house, right? So in this case it looks like these are allegations
30:35 um but there doesn't appear to be um you know it doesn't appear to be an actual case of misappropriation. Now maybe it is maybe there are assets that um the the u the second wife did misappropriate. Uh but you know if it's a if it's a joint if she and her husband had a joint bank account so she's permitted access to that account and to use those funds um that that would not be misappropriation. The the stepchildren though may feel that it is because you know the f the
31:11 you know the father told them you know when I die you're going to get you know x y and z blah blah blah blah blah right but since there's no will there's nothing in writing so who knows what the truth of the matter is right so it all comes for the court to to sort out okay um so um you you know you could have another situation where uh let's say one there were two siblings, okay? And one of the siblings had access to the deedent's checking
31:46 account to help the deedent with, you know, paying his bills, right? And so then the deedent dies and now that money does not belong to to the you know to the sibling who has access to the account. It is in fact the deedence's money. The fact that he has access to it is immaterial in terms of determining ownership. Okay. So you've heard the old expression possession is ninet of the law. That that's actually an incorrect uh expression of it. It's
32:21 possessions are ninet of the law. Meaning nine10en of the law deals with property. So the fact that this this you know maybe it's a child of the deedent has access to the account has no bearing at all on uh who to whom that money would be distributed as a result of the administration of the deedence estate. Okay. Um h however the fact that one child has access to the account and the other doesn't often
32:58 times that alone will lead to allegations of mismanagement misappropriation etc. Okay and this only complicates the whole situation. Okay. So when there's a will or a trust, right? It it's it's already understood who's going to be handling the administration when the person dies. Okay? It's understood who's going to have access. Okay? And and and so things can happen much more smoothly, more coherently, and there can be greater
33:34 confidence that things are being handled appropriately. Okay? uh you know and and again th this is true of all these issues. Whenever there's a dispute it it takes more time to resolve oftentimes takes more legal fees to to get them resolved. Okay. And so that that's the downside uh you know in in in all of this. Okay. Let's let's take another break. Probate and Trust TV, your curated source for the most useful and insightful content on estate planning
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34:47 Weekly, and I'm your host, Kevin Beml. We're talking about contested intestate successions. And I've I've talked about uh several points uh of of shall we say friction, dispute, dra drawn out fights between between people. uh determining the heirs uh figuring out who's going to be appointed to administer administrate the estate dealing with creditor claims and debts and both uh allegations and actual mismanagement and misappropriation of of
35:22 assets. Okay, all of these come into play. Okay, next is excluded or undisclosed assets. Okay. Now, this this kind of ties into the previous one, mismanaged or misappropriated assets. But there, you know, disagreements can arise over whether certain assets should be a part of the estate. So, let's take that bank account where it's a you know, somebody who somebody dies, one of their children has access to the account. It appears that was the case in order to
35:58 just help their parent out, right? Uh but now the parent is dead. There's no will. There's no trust. And the child with access to the account is saying, "Well, you know, mom said that once I died, this money was mine, so I took it." Right? And so, um it, you know, now there's a fight over whether in fact this asset should be dis uh should be uh excluded from the estate. Right? Now, the other child may say, "What's the proof of that? Yeah, it's just your word and this is mom's money and so it has to
36:35 be included in the probate and you know off off you go to the races as they say. And by the way, this can happen in a number of areas. It can happen with real estate. It can happen with a business or a business interest. You could have a situation where one child is working in the business and the other isn't. There's no will, there's no estate plan, trust, whatever. And so the child working in the business and and by the way, he may just be assuming this as a matter of good faith that when his parent dies, he's going to take over and own the business, right? He's the one that's been working on it for however
37:10 many years, right? So why shouldn't he assume that the business is going to become his? Okay. So, and of course the other child is looking and saying, "Wait a minute. this business is worth whatever the number is, half a million dollars, a million dollars, a hund00 million. You know, why do you get this whole thing? Hey, you chose to work in the business. I chose to go uh you know, be out on my own and and you know, all of that. And so now you've got now you've got uh you know, should the business be included? Should it not be included? Okay. And now you've got a
37:46 court fight. And of course, the larger the asset, the more incentive there is for the heirs to dispute it, right? Um and and typically the more money will be spent with lawyers, etc. working these things out. Okay. Um and I'm trying to think, do I have an example of this? Uh um oh, so I've got a case where uh uh
38:24 the um the deedent um was was not married at the time he died, but he did have a longstanding girlfriend. When I say long-standing, I think about 20 years. Okay? And the girlfriend lived in a house he owned. Okay. And um the girlfriend's daughter essentially decided that the house should belong to the house essentially belongs to her mother because she's lived there so
38:59 long, right? And so she wanted it excluded from the probate. Now you may say, "Well, that's crazy. Whoever is on the title to the house, that's who owns it. Well, yes, that's true. Okay, but that doesn't prevent someone from disputing something and making claims. Well, you know, he meant to transfer the house to her. He just never did it. Blah blah blah blah blah, right? All has to be worked out in probate. And and as crazy as that sounds, how could someone ever think
39:36 they could get ownership of a property in somebody else's name? It means nothing in probate. People will make the most outrageous claims merely because they think they can get away with it. Okay? And often times especi there are there are lawyers who will take these cases and the idea behind it is to essentially extort money from the estate. Okay. Or extort extort some kind of um something
40:13 of value from the estate. It may not necessarily be money. In the case of this house, essentially um although we were planning on doing this anyway, we made a formal agreement for the mother to live in the house until she died. Okay. Um and and they wanted a whole bunch of other stuff and and and like with the with other cases I've been in, I said, "Nope. Spent $100,000 fighting it. not two cents uh you know in extortion let me because I do consider these things extortion if there's not if
40:48 there's not a valid claim and a valid claim means there's there's a valid will there's a trust or or some other evidence that will stand up in court that is not a valid claim. Okay. And it's it's it's my my perspective anyway that it only makes things worse to give into these kind of spurious claims because it's not like they stay uh private. Inevitably, it seems they get out and now the next person is there
41:23 with their spurious claim against the assets of the estate. Okay? And so all of you know this is another reason why having a will or a trust or both in many cases is so important because that will delineate who gets what. Okay? And it will and and by the way um it it will oftentimes also say who absolutely will not get anything. Right? So, I I was watching a movie last night uh and and
41:58 it in the movie a woman's mother dies and so she and her daughter go to the you know go to a small town where the memorial service is being held and I'm not exactly sure who the character is. I'm not sure if it's the the the woman's ex-husband or anyway, he shows up and and he threatens the lawyer um who's who's uh representing the executive of the estate saying, "I'm going to get money out of this estate." Right? That baldly. Now, for people, you know, for
42:34 watching the movie, it's a very dramatic moment and all of that. Had I seen that, you know, several years ago, I would have gone, "Oh, come on." Now, having been in this business for many years, it's like, "Yeah, I get it." You know, he's thinking he'll extort money from the estate, right? That's just that's just how unfortunately some people think. Okay. And then the final thing I want to talk about is and this kind of sums up in the end what this is all about. Uh and that is family disputes that lead to legal challenges within the
43:11 context of the administration of the estate. Every dispute, jealousy, wound seems like a probate is an especially an intestate probate is an opportunity for that to be uh fought and and fought bitterly. So if there were any senses of favoritism between siblings or there was uh uh you know one sibling
43:49 took care of the parent in the last you know year or several years before he died and the other one didn't. If there was uh a child who was estranged from the parent um but nonetheless remains a legal heir. Okay. All of these things come out in a probate and and when there's money on the table, it really many many times brings out the worst in in people. And uh you know, I I often hesitate to say to to someone, we're
44:24 going to treat you like family. Because I think we all know oftent times family members treat each other much worse than they would, you know, a stranger or a friend. Um but but all of these come out and it seems like they all have to be not worked through because in my experience rarely is any kind of resolution to these issues reached but they all need to be dealt with in the context of of administrating the estate. Uh and and I've mentioned some of these
44:59 disputes along the way, a situation where a child um one child was working in the family business and the other was not and and that the child working in the business feels that gives him greater a greater interest in the business. Okay. You have a situation where a child was uh the the the caregiver of of the person for the last several years of his life. So I I had a situation I I actually withdrew from it. It just became uh way too hostile. But it was a situation where uh a son and daughter had looked after their mother
45:36 during the last uh I think two or three years of her life. Um and then along comes the third child and claims that he has precedent to the assets uh because he's got a trust that that that his in which his father was the beneficiary and the trustee now the father is dead. So now all the property is his. He proceeds to evict his brother and sister from the house. Okay? making them homeless because they spent their
46:12 time taking care of the deedent for the last couple of years, right? And now the whole thing ends up in court. And inexplicably, the judge took the attitude, well, I'm going to declare this trust valid even though there were there were very serious potential flaws in the trust. And the whole way that it came about was was very strange since at the time the trust was created the deedence doctors were already diagnosing uh what looked like dementia and at
46:48 least diminished capacity. Pages were missing from the trust. the notary public who supposedly uh uh I'm sorry, not the notary public, the attorney who supposedly drew up the trust could not be found. Okay, so there's all these irregularities and yet the judge took the attitude of well uh it's valid. That's it. And and by the way, that was one of the reasons why I withdrew because a judge who would act so precipitously and callously toward
47:25 other potential heirs is not a judge who's going to oversee uh an administration in an appropriate way. And and what that means for me as a professional fiduciary is I could find myself in a situation where I'm being held responsible for doing something wrong even though I haven't and and the judge is not going to care or worse, you know, the judge is going to go along with the allegations of misconduct on my part. So, you know, again, all of these family
48:00 disputes come to the four. People are angry. They're upset. the they they may actually be grieving the loss of their loved one, but that doesn't seem to get in the way of fighting over the money. Okay. And so for all of these reasons, avoid a you know an intestate succession. Absolutely. Do your estate plan. That is really the solution. Do an estate plan. Even if you don't have a lot of property, at least do a simple will. Okay, it doesn't take that long. It's
48:36 not that expensive. Okay, there are lots of attorneys out there who will help you at a nominal fee. Okay, and if there is any complexity to your situation, they can at least let you know. So you can choose whether to hand you know to handle it up front or look in the end I I I I have seen situations where somebody died in test state on purpose because they so disliked their children and they felt their children had treated them so badly while they were alive that they they basically
49:12 plan to set their children at each other's throats. And that's very unfortunate. It's unfortunate that that a parent would feel that way. It's unfortunate that children would get to that situation and and and it it it just makes so many lives more difficult. But this is the nature of human endeavor and and you see it all in probate. So I thank you very much for joining me today, especially my live viewers. Uh, tomorrow at uh 10:00 a.m. uh Pacific time is my
49:48 show, Business Lessons from the Military. And on Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show, People Making Money. Okay. And then on Thursday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Pacific time, Pacific time. On Thursday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific time is my show Jiggers's Place. I have that's every other Thursday and that's when we sit back and have a cocktail and talk about all the non-financial aspects of life. So I hope you'll join me later in the week. I wish you a wonderful rest
50:24 of the day and signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage at all.