0:00 and we're here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to discuss all matters relating to probate Estates trusts whether it's from your own personal perspective of planning your estate and and administrating it or whether you're a professional who um is either involved in or wants to be involved in helping people in this matter and uh so today I'm I'm very happy to uh have a a a friend a new friend of mine um on the show uh Mary Jane Charles has an
0:35 interesting story to tell about how she got involved with this Arena she is the author of um surviving the business of dying and um you know I want I want to jump right into it because uh also by the way she um is the author of surviving the business of dying companion workbook and these two together as we'll talk about um are a great tool for helping you get going in in this important field um I I just want
1:10 to mention to to give you an idea of of the the impact um I'm involved with a situation right now um where um someone died unexpectedly um and he has or had I guess a business in addition to quite a number of Investments and because he had no will no trust no nothing um the um his his lawyer is is having to go through um a a fairly difficult court process getting someone
1:47 appointed to run the company um now that the man is gone and in the meantime his employees have not been able to be paid um and and um uh his company has not been able to make distributions to people who REM rely on this money um to live their lives so um this is a case where not only were there um significantly negative circumstances for The Heirs of the estate but um and and
2:22 and by the way the heir is fine he's not going to you know suffer he's going to have to wait a little bit longer to get distributions but his life is is not really impacted at all it's all of the people who were working for or doing business with this man who are having their lives um really kind of turned upside down by a a lack of of you know Estate Planning and so um W with that as kind of a bit of a background um I'm going to introduce uh Mary Jane and and thank you so much for coming on the show
2:59 um and and if if if do you want to include anything else in your introduction that that I left out um not really the only thing well I'll get into it when I start speaking okay get lost yeah so so uh when last we talked um you you told what I thought was a very interesting story how you got involved with this and if and if you don't mind sharing a little bit of that W with our viewers I I think will um really help bring your message home sure
3:35 um this was my husband was the precipitating element in this whole Saga shall I say uh he was older than I he was not well he visited Dr Google if you will uh and and the results of all those tests are on Google and so I had no idea what was going on other than I could see him fading uh in every way he was pretty sharp but not anymore he was in good shap is but not anymore he was getting
4:10 thinner and thinner and I saw some other things going on that I said you know you really should well I'm not going and nothing of the norm pertained to him and so you know it's either pick your battles or just push them up clip you know but um I say that because we lived in a ryal community overlooking a Gorge so anyway my humor I'll try to abstain in any case uh so he we moved and we were in new area
4:47 and he wanted to see his partner loosely held nothing in writing I learned later um we were in root they were going to meet at their office which was a coffee shop and so he got in the car and said you're not driving I am he had not slept I knew that much so I drove we got where we were supposed to be and I looked over I thought oh he might have taken a nap in fact he had died in the car seat next to me a and uh however these things were I was not
5:23 shocked that morning he was particularly um not with it uh confused too slow for his style of thinking and I said you know we have these things called medical directives you've never filled one out and then it occurred to me I had my phone and I had the medical director for the state of Washington I said may I read this and you can nod or shake your head he said yes be still my heart I got it um maybe in 20 minutes because I
5:58 asked yes or no no questions so that he absolutely understood what I was asking so I did not know that less than four hours later I would be handing my phone to an ER doctor when he came out and said do you have his papers I said I don't have any papers but I have this and he took my phone he was at once odd because he'd never quite seen this before and he left because he could see his patient only a few hours before and have
6:35 a pretty good picture of what I was dealing with pardon me so he took it up to legal or wherever they say this is fine and the rest is history um there were no further steps taken and he was allowed to die naturally and as I said in the book um I the chapters evolved by the way life evolved and that's the first chapter and the second chapter is called let the games
7:10 begin and that's because it I didn't have any papers not a will not a directive uh no partnership papers and I learned as walking into a village that's already been bombed you got to look out for the landmines and there were all over the place I had to prove who I was every step of the way because we did not have an attorney and I can promise you no matter what part of the world you're from how much money you make or how many
7:45 heirs there may be in this case there were three adult sons and the estate of fourth who had predeceased him so they were grandchildren in the midst and my father had done probate in Brooklyn for a long time and I never understood why he'd come home late at night if anyone in my family he'd start screaming so things didn't go well that day and I was looking at this table filled with medical and financial and something real estate and I just said Daddy I need you now I wasn't upset I was living in that
8:23 sense I was Furious because this man had been quite the Builder and knew the import of small print that was the drama but then you're sitting with a table full of papers none of which has your name on it I at this point could not have cared less I just wanted this to be figured out and um I had a good cry I had a good fit cat flew out the door because he didn't know what was going on and um I just decided this was the beginning
8:59 of a book that was like three weeks afterward was Labor Memorial Day Weekend uh what sued you do not want to go shopping for an attorney the day after somebody dies uh one of the sons so it best we get in there fast you know because the partner could steal things that grew into another but to be in an attorney's office less than 24 hours after someone dies whether they were the loveing your life or it was not good it doesn't matter it's bizarre
9:34 absolutely bizarre and this gentleman started asking the two men in the room questions and I just sat there I'm watching this valet and I'm like I'm over here and I lived in Washington we were in Portland and he thought he could um readily take the case inside a mailbox in Portland and I in my GRE I'm like well that's not going to happen so uh I just and I don't know they were midde I stood up and I said well thank you for your time now they're all looking at
10:10 each other she's leaving yeah she's leaving getting the flock out of Dodge as fast as I can what a group I you know come on it's the timing the situation the conversation so I was leaving the eldest came after me I sit under circumstances on my working with this man I'll find my own attorney and secondly that will be after the funeral which is next week so if ever you're in hesitation mode don't hesitate just grab it by the throat
10:45 they'll believe anything you say and they will not come after you they all went into their rocks where they belonged so I thought son of a gun and so can be very empowering don't let anyone bully you yeah then if they oh I know I skipped a step when we first went into the attorneys I had the brother La I never figured out why he was there and I had the Elder son escorting me and I looked at both of them I said do either of you want to take this on no I'm a I'm not doing it so I said
11:23 thanks guys you know so I thought then that's very because then you don't have to answer to anyone just go with people you trust and I can't say this enough or any other way you will have to work with them or whomever follows in your stad to govern your fin your business after you can no longer be texted and and so these don't require a a life-ending situation you can slip in
11:59 the driveway and not be able to talk or the shower God had a car accident and we all live through the pandemic so that eliminates the old people's papers no it could be anybody for sure that was the first day so you know you really you really got a test of fire there so to speak um and and um one of the things you said I think is I I just want to highlight for a minute and that is that um you know you really kind of have to take the blll
12:34 by the horn so to speak and help people understand that um you know you're you were in charge of the process not them and and and the process is there not for the benefit of the lawyers and and everybody else but it's there for the benefit of of The Heirs um and and that they're there to um help you achieve your objectives so yes it's yeah I excuse me
13:09 I learned again flying by the seat of my pants I went through three attorneys two of whom were women and both women went to very good schools they each had their own business no one could close the deal I was just like come on what the problem well it wasn't a huge State no one was related to anybody and but they did go above what they call that ceiling the uh anyway it's a ceiling uh to uh go to
13:45 probate so if a little bit of attention had been paid you would not have needed probate and in this case because there was no attorney I had to find an attorney if for nothing to represent pardon me to file the document that would make Mary Jane the personal representative so that I could close bank accounts and be accepted wherever I go on behalf of and get everybody their checks and if I heard another Well when
14:22 will that be uh what's going on what's the delay and I would say I don't know I don't know I still don't know I replace that with I'll get back to you and and once they go silent especially the tone of voice I used it's really a good phrase you can really govern its Effectiveness through posture and tone and so they went away at least for that next five minutes you know so you got to get your brain
14:57 back in your body so if I could leave you with one more Pearl go me an attorney make sure you like them when you do not need them I have a first name it's two words no one could quite grasp that I was Jane I was Mary Mary Alice Mary L and I'm sitting I'm like dear God and so you know little things that matter to you become enormous in the moment MH so find a direct medical direc for
15:32 everybody they're online they're free make sure it's for your state because there are tiny differences between States but in the moment it could make an enormous uh time oriented conversation and you might not have time you need attending right right so I was struck going through your book um and I'm I'm just going to um here it is so so the the table of contents it hopefully people can see it
16:08 here um but it really goes you know step by step what do you do and and it's very very simple to follow so um talk to us if you will a little bit this this seems to me to be designed primarily for someone who you know they have a modest state they're not going to spend you know thousands and thousands of dollars on you know estate planning because it's not justified um and yet um they don't want to end up in this chaotic situation that you were in and I'll I'll I'll the
16:45 same thing here I mean if you can see this page it's just you see you just this is the workbook you just fill all this in so talk talk to us if you will how did you develop this um and and you know who really is am I correct in you know in in in who the target is or or am I off base there talk to us about who it's really um you know designed for well it the use of it has grown since it's been out initially it was for uh those who think estate planning is not for them at all and they're not g to
17:22 have that conversation it has bad mojo around it well I'm here to say it's it's not about you at all it's about the people who follow in your footsteps you do not want them frustrated angry other others kicking in their anger and angst uh and you have nothing to go by it's like dealing with IKEA on Christmas or holidays without any directions and everyone's saying hurry up I mean it's ludicrous so uh
17:59 especially if you think you're pretty smart you're not very smart if you don't have at least my yellow book you do need it reviewed by an attorney not my book but anything you put in it because uh it's just too important not to give that gift to your family I come in at the back end of the will although my workbook could be a starting point for a will if you um want to do it that way it's a no lose proposition it's simply questions and answers and and as Kevin
18:36 held up the book you notied a blank page well that's in case your answers don't fit in the blanks write upon and it's strictly for you it's not a partner thing people's details as to where you want to be buried and and how and I even give you a spot to start your own eulogy you might want a name who speaks on your behalf that's that's a whole other topic um I it wasn't my family because I couldn't say oh my God you're but it was a little shaky and and
19:14 um the beauty of the workbook is you can revisit it it's not a test it's not a document but it could become they call a primary source in case there's a fuss later on and to the fact it's written in your hand and if you make any change don't put it online this is a handwritten document and you could get it notorized let your attorney know you have such a thing and he can reference it for his papers but do not give him the original because you might have a
19:50 change your heart on something so don't scribble don't write out Simply put a line through it and initial it and that way hey if someone's got a problem the week after you're gone whoever becomes your executive and I have I made up another position called the first lieutenant and that has story um that I said nope Kevin had a yellow book let's look for the yellow book and it's yellow so you can find it and it's what 8 and a half by 11 so you can find
20:27 it it's meant to be used it's not a Thanksgiving Topic at the table uh it's fairly private in many parts a first lieutenant is the person with whom you work pretty much daily for the first three weeks after somebody dies especially if you're left without a will if you have a will 85% of my book does not pertain to you and if you finish it up with my work book it's basically the everyday Nitty Gritty of your life so no one has to go
21:04 introduce thems to a banker who never heard of Kevin because he did everything online and you have to prove he said God forbid and you're there and he said ah then you could be his mother and she would have to prove who she was so this is extra added I am the first lieutenant first lieutenant was my son he was 28 able personable into all the players he drove and he had a daily errand list so I did not have to go hither and ywn he
21:39 could get a lot of stuff done where I didn't need to prove who I was and so one morning he came down I already had a list ready for him and he saluted me a loving wise guy but I said come here Lieutenant I've got work for you and that's where that came from so everybody will have to have someone who you trust to the integrate the other position I made up was social administ social media administrator that's the
22:14 person who closes all your social media accounts or completes your legacy however you wish of course they're all different so you need someone very Savvy they could be 16 and they would love to have a job they loved you dearly and they're feeling like they're in left field give them a job say I know Kevin's daughter is fabulous at this and look there's her name that's who he wants dealing with this she'll feel at once loved important included and she's got
22:49 something to do and these are really important things so it's not a matter of being kind you need dependability in there M and each suggestion came out of I don't know I still don't know so you need an attorney you need a first lieutenant and these not be filled in all at once you'll bump into them and be like perfect have conversations again when you don't need it just let those feel that it be a good selection and let everybody know that the other person is
23:26 there because this way in the moment that's three people on your phone that will be called and that brings me to the phone have five people's names in your phone IC in case of an emergency and it would be your doctor your lawyer relatives have one out of state because this world between brogue Wes and earthquakes and things you always need someone out of town because where you live might not have service anymore so um it's all from experience
24:04 that's all I can say yeah and I do know it's from experience because when I was 27 my first husband died of ALS and there were no final papers um the uh shavo case in Florida had yet to be uh settled and that gal was left on life support much longer than she and her husband had spoken about he couldn't prove that so she was left on life support So now that we have papers available fill them out and understand that it's the best gift in
24:40 the world to leave your family yeah um as I understand it you're you're doing some seminars to help people with this topic is that correct I do I have classes I give a monthly class um two classes actually like I have an overview of the workbook so people can understand how to use it especially if you're trying to help somebody who might need it sooner rather than later uh present it so that it's not you know bad news it's kind of curious what do you want
25:15 done with your baseball cards you know want them in a garage sale right and uh but calming down that it does get to nitty-gritty I I'm I have a list edits I'm going to add a whole new section on how do you fix that because they might have fabulous knowledge on how to fix things and you don't so it's heartwarming it can bring out U family stories that you've never heard before uh trophies you know just great stuff in the way of learning putting down details
25:52 that you need to know in any case so that's the overview and if people don't want to fill it out all in one shot I have a workshop and and that's once a month as well and we get her done you will have a completed workbook by the end of 90 minutes so um someone could use this for themselves right to get to get their own situation right absolutely yes but it could also be used Say by maybe a child whose parent is um unfortunately approaching that time um and and the
26:28 child realizes the parent hasn't set up anything and and and so maybe sitting down with their parent periodically and and you know little by little going through through the book to gather the information does that work as well it does uh every scenario is different if somebody has really got their heels dug in and I can think of someone else wish think and he had a fright only a few weeks ago and he his son still can't get them to even look at it is will take your copy I'm not sure the whole family had a copy and um just everybody to
27:05 start filling out your boooks it's a little obnoxious but he'll you know get over it and get grumpy and leave one and he'll go through it curiosity is a very strong element peely or we could do it together or if you go through and say oh I hadn't thought of this do you want military funeral you were a marine um it's just a call to the VA and that is something you can start today just get the papers together it doesn't mean it saves you at least 10 days in
27:42 the moment because sometimes they're very busy and you do not want to wait 10 more days people want to get they want to get this you know so military funerals it's a called to the VA just get papers and put them in freezer bags and keeping them in an envelope wherever you keep the book the book should be private uh but accessible um talking about accessibility the medical directive is not intended to be private in the moment they have to be uh ready to be grabbed
28:17 so those definitely put on the side of the refrigerator and put copies in your night table your glove compartment um because that's the first thing the EMTs look for that's the first thing that the uh medical team at the hospital asks for and if not then they go on with their routine but if they have instructions your instructions tucked into your clothes upon arrival that's the way they will go got it got it well the time zoom by we're already
28:52 we're our time is already up um so um I just want to stress a couple of things one is um that I'm going to put a link to Mary Char um Mary Jane's website I almost I almost fled myself um I'm gonna put a link up to Mary Jane's website where um not only can you get her books but you can also see her schedule of of the the workshops that she does and you can contact her with with questions and I
29:28 I I hope that you all saw the the just the the downar practicality of of everything that Mary Jane was talking about because in the end that's really what what this is about we can talk theory all we want but when when that time comes that this information is needed Theory flies out the door because there we're talking about real people's lives we're we're talking about taking care of someone who has passed and left others behind who are grappling with their emotions um at
30:05 the same time that there's this big sort of uncertainty looming before them and and to be able to fall back on the knowledge that there was some preparation done to make it easier I think gives people a lot of comfort um going back to the situation I oh one one sec going back to the situation I mentioned at the beginning one of the hardest things that the folks involved in it are dealing with is especially the people working at the company is this sense that they were sort of cut loose to just fumble around trying to figure all this out and
30:43 it's been very disorienting for them um in in fact one of them there the funeral was on for the for the man was on Thursday and I I I told them I said you know what if you don't want to come in on Friday don't don't come in this is this is hard and and unfortunately it's not going to get easier as we go forward so taking care of yourself as a person is as important as taking care of any of the financial issues and these other things I said if if if you don't come into the office tomorrow you know what the work is still going to be there on
31:18 Monday it's not GNA run away from you so and and for those in charge your business and the people who work for you in many instances are as dear if not dearer than your own family you don't want them to flounder you know their children their animals their troubles they're this and you do have to take care of people and and you can't not just let it slide and um just to your point you don't know what when's going to happen quickly I have a friend but
31:53 she was client she lives in South Catan and she has Ms and her husband takes very very good care of her three weeks ago she was chatting with him they were he had just lifted her from bed the wheelchair and she turned around and he was having a stroke oh my gosh and she could see her phone somehow she made it she called 911 they came neighbors came it's rural but they all knew something was going down they took care of her he went off he was in bad shape for 48 hours but is with us and flying through
32:29 rehab her sons came and she had her book filled out and they were able to grab the book do the banking because it was the first week or two of the year so all kinds of money us were coming and going she couldn't stop thinking me so it works absolutely absolutely well Mary Jean thank you so much for coming and and and talking with us today I I I I I i' I read your books when you sent them to me and and and thank you by the way for sending them to me they are just
33:06 marvelous they are a fantastic tool um and and and I would even if you have a very complex estate I encourage you to get Mary Jane's books and work through them so that as you sit down with your various advisers you'll already have compiled a lot of the information that that you'll need to answer the kind of questions that they're going to have for you as they seek to help you put together you know what what will be probably a you know a a complex estate plan um with with a lot of moving parts
33:42 so I think the hardest part in all of this is is getting started with it and and Mary Jane's tools are they're just so wellth thought out they're so people focused I I I you know I you probably have never heard me advocate for a book so much on any show that I've ever done they they just these are these are such impressive resources I I really can't um recommend them highly enough so so Mary Jane thank you so much again for for
34:17 coming on and talking with us today I'm gonna just wrap up the show here real quick and if you'll hang hang tight after we go offline we can say goodbye abely thank you very you're welcome so folks that's our show for today I just want to remind you tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show business lessons from the military and um what is our topic I've forgotten what our topic is but but you I I was working on it yesterday so I think you're G to find it interesting um and then on uh Wednesday at 10: a.m. Pacific time is business lesson I'm sorry is people making money and um
34:56 we'll we'll spend our time together on on those two days hopefully look forward to it and then of course one week from today we'll be back for the next edition of uh trust and Estates weekly so thanks again for joining us um do uh recommend us to a friend especially this particular show it'll be posted on our um YouTube channel and if you've got someone who's kind of reticent about engaging in this issue um you know send them the link to this show and say Hey you know just take a watch of this Mary
35:32 this this woman Mary Jane she not only has great advice she's lived through the whole process and and and we I think that will really resonate with with your friend you'll be doing them a a very great kindness in in making the introduction yeah just quickly if you don't want to deal with Amazon MJC author.com uh those my books I have the books here at home I can send them to you today okay and I'll put I'm going to put that link in the show notes as well so as soon as this posts on our YouTube
36:07 channel you'll you'll we I'll I always update the notes you'll see that link there so yeah you can contact Mary Jane directly and get your copy so folks I wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do Marie You're My Belle take care all