0:00 [Music] who are [Music] you and where are you going what do you [Music] want hello and welcome to uh trust and Estates weekly had to think about that for a moment I was mine was somewhere else uh I'm your host Kevin bemel and we're here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about all the
0:35 various matters related to estate planning U administration of trusts and probates and all of the numerous details that are involved in those both from a standpoint of handling your own trust and estate matters as well as being professionals like my guest in me uh who help other people take care of such things so if you're a longtime uh viewer of the show you know my guest Hillary Cooper she's been on uh I think twice before if memory serves uh Hillary is the president of
1:11 uncluttered uh located in New York City um you you live in Manhattan right do I do on the uh beloved Upper East Side there you go the upper east side of Manhattan and uh you know without uh further Ado um I want to get right into our our our topic because Hillary and I have a tendency to to talk way past uh the point at which uh you know we we we should probably uh sign off so um Hillary first of all thanks thank you for coming on the show again today how are you doing my pleasure Kevin thank
1:47 you for having me again I think this is time number four actually oh is it number four okay well so you know no one has ever accused me of being able to count well so it's we're it into a series I like to think of it like that there you go there you go so our topic for today is prepare for downsizing and we we've talked I know in the past about um how um just all the stuff accumulates um how um people can tell if any of their any of the
2:22 accumulation has any value um we did show from your friend's store who you know sells antiques and such um and and you know in talking about a follow-up show I I loved this idea that you have uh of why do we want to wait until you know a person has passed away or there's you know been some other crisis that um now you know requires in essence other people to to deal with it let's you know prepare um in advance for the inevitable
2:58 downsizing so talk with us if you if you would for a few minutes um what are the uh likely situations where um you know people can kind of get ahead of the curve on dealing with all the stuff that otherwise would be left to their their children or their heirs or you know the people administrating their estate dealing with well I think the best way to start is small you know to tackle sort of a 30 minute a week project where it can be thing like through your front
3:35 hallway closet you know do you have things that you never hung up on your walls that maybe your kids would have you know would take if they chance to see that they were actually maybe it's valuables such as for coats or Casmir scarves or sweaters something like that I'm I'm now definitely sounding very East Coast Centric with talking starting with a hallway closet but you know anywhere in your house that is a spot that sort of seals like it's been neglected whether it's your attic your basement your you know your uh what you keep under your your your bed you never
4:10 know people keep stuff underneath there whether it's a that you've been handed down you know it's a I'm dealing with someone right now that's foremost on my mind stamps and coins you know people tend to put those in boxes and leave them on a shelf and those are the first things that you know probably hold most value when I bring somebody over over to take a look at Collections and great way to to start small you know a box that you haven't opened up you haven't looked at you know and then there's obviously the inevitable photo albums and Paper Trails that we all keep because we're not quite sure you know when we can actually you know dis items you know the
4:46 seven-year rule for tax forms or any other sort of financial papers and that stuff but papers take up space and they add a lot of clutter per se but the way to start I think is a feel-good pro are things that you can actually amize so if there's some if there's something there in your closet that you actually have put off it's a great way to lure the kids and grandkids in a holiday and say can you give me a half an hour let's go look at a couple of collections that I've had sitting here and you know that's anything again comic books you know it's it whatever it
5:22 is that you might have collecting dust and it might have been from a pration that handed it to you is a great start because it's really wonderful just to Kickstart it by actually being sell something of some sort of value and then you know the lore is okay if we can sell it then you guys get to keep whatever the proceeds from the sale of that is you know tackling the larger projects everybody seems to have a storage unit somewhere somehow someway over time and you find out that you're spending a lot of money to keep a storage unit going for a year two three five 10 whatever and you can try to lure
6:00 your children and your grandchildren Friends of the family what have you in to take storage unit there's probably goodies in there that you've forgotten about and if they're not then at least you set the storage unit free you're no you're no longer paying monthly maintenance on where there's nothing really of value there but truly because you forget you know we all move house to house we think oh yeah I'll need that sofa somay or absolutely have to hold on to that but if there's silver or anything that's you know valuable in there what better time and what better way to start than at the beginning so you you know things and feel really good
6:36 about starting this project you know just to give yourself a little light at the end of the time so to speak and then I would say from there after you start with like you know sort of the hidden secrets and everybody has them somewhere again it's could be your jewelry box you know going through that seeing how you want to allocate jewelry calling your grandchildren and your children and saying you know who wants I want to see you wear it and then actually go and redesigning things because a lot of times you have a broo from your grandmother from the 1920s you're never going to wear it but if it was put on a pendant that could be a great way in which to incorporate it and keep the memory alive I've done that with a lot
7:11 of clients jewelry and also again with with even with fur people that just feel comfortable wearing fur but you know it's great if it's been taken care of it can be turned into a throw pillow or sofa or something that is you know pretty and useful and the kind of that you wouldn't normally ever buy but if it's sitting there you may as wellage of it and repurpose it for something so um I mean I'm dealing with a situation right now where one of the assets I'm administrating is actually a business and um the offices need to be
7:49 moved and we realized actually about six months ago that there are Rec records that have accumulated for literally 40 years there are two stor rooms full of filing cabinets right and and so you know we've we've been spending the time since then you know digitizing the records that the company needs to keep right and creating a a records retention policy and then you know figuring out okay what are we going to do with the
8:24 rest of this and and you know I finally told them um yeah we're going to hire company to come out and shred it all right and just and just get rid of it because there's no point in either a storing it or be taking it to a new office where we're just paying for additional space for filing cabinets of files that you know will never be used so what about a situation where there may be multiple locations whether it's a business location a residence or
9:00 multiple residences I I mean it it seems almost overwhelming um what do you recommend people do about about that especially if they're not you know typically in one of the locations very often or or maybe it's it's something like a business where they were involved with it now maybe they're you know sort of ameritus chairman of the board or something right and and yet all of these things impinge potentially on the air no for sure well the the sh the mobile shredding companies and we use them they're all over the country come on you
9:35 know right obviously they pull up with with their unit right right on the property and they go through it you but the best way to I think you know again it goes back to you know your trust in Estates attorney you know having somebody that that you trust to just make sure that that's in there can be shredded and it's you know it's the shredding process is actually very quick I mean I've seen I've seen 300 square feet of paper shredded in you know inside hours so and then OB not readable and it's not you know ever you know traceable or what have you so it's completely it's exactly the way to do it's like wiping a computer with you
10:11 know using a a computer technician it's it's never going to go anywhere um it's a great way to start I mean the easiest thing the easiest first step is to is for things that you can actually discard the harder part are the things that you're not sure you know the things maybe if when someday the those are the harder you know the emotionally attached items that somehow some way you know the silver might not really be worth anything it might be plate it might not be Sterling as we talked about in our last episode but you still want to remember your grandmother and your grandmother used it and treated it well
10:47 and you know when you're a kid you don't know the real and real and plated silver but remember being on her you know on her dining room table when you had a fancy dinner so those are those are a little bit more of a gray area but you know again I think the best thing to do is really have a trusted friend with you and this is where uncluttered sort of is a trusted friend where we can say realistically how often are you going to use a 12 piece you know setting of person setting so you're looking at mult many many for many many spoons that are not you know really silver and their plate how are you going to use those you
11:23 know how are you going to incorporate the that into your life well if you're willing to get rid of all the other stuff that you have currently and you just want to use it on daily basis I by the way am all for I I drink my morning coffee in my in my Tiffany coffee cups from that was my uh my my wedding gift from my ex-in-laws because I think why not if not now when the Platinum Band Tiffany cup it's a great way to start the day and they you know retail value on those things are probably $90 I'm not buying a $90 mug to have my morning coffee but it's sitting it's sitting in my my cabinet in
11:58 my kitchen and know will my daughter ever want it or my son probably not so I may as well start using it now because like I said if not now when but the easiest thing is the things that you know you can get rid of you know you're moving you're buying mattress you know that mattress needs to be discarded you're moving you're buying a bigger bed those Linens need to go because they're not going to fit on your new on your bed going to from one office to a next shredding paper feels really good so those are the feel-good projects alongside of how you can actually monetize things that might be sitting in a closet house or downsizing a storage
12:33 unit so you can actually feel good about getting rid of that you monthly bill and and you now know what's you know it's it's always mask I don't remember what's in there you know the Box on the top of your shelf all the way to the left requires not just a you know not just a step stool but you know but a but a tall person it's you know highest possible the highest possible corner or frankly the photo albums you know I think think that's a lot of that's very generational that's a lot of people's grandparents if you're in your 50s now 60s your grandparents selected photo albums you know and what do you do with those you
13:09 feel like you're throwing away a memory and this is part of the uncluttered process we really feel like you're not parting with a memory you know the memory is here memory here the memory doesn't actually have to be in a book you know and that's where we digitize people's you know all their keepsakes and a great gift to my father towards the end of his life would log on to his computer every morning and every to watch you know watch the news see pictures of my kids and my and any member of his family you know that he had photos of growing up or just you know during different of his life it was
13:45 such an uplifting way to start and you know Savers you can program your computer they can every second every three seconds you know you can evolving you can have thousands of literally as a screen saver and what better way to make you feel good in the morning they life in photos versus having besty photo albums you know in a storage some place outside of New York costing you a few hundred dollars a month where you never get to enjoy them and I'll guarantee you this your kids are never go out to the storage unit to pick them up voluntarily they're not going to but if you make it
14:21 easy them and this is what we always we do the job that nobody wants to do and if you make it easy for your client to incorporate some of wonderful treasures and memories into their everyday life we've done our job and that's that's exactly that so not only are you streamlining but you're really preserving a memory bying a photo by seeing it all the time you know the human brain really handle so much we forget after a while also you know why not use what you have you know sometimes you'll think oh let me go buy another piece of art for my living room and then you you know go to your storage unit and
14:56 you ask my friend something there that you haven't remembered in a while or it could great way could be a great gift great way to family or friend you know here you go hear something from my archives and it meant so much to me you know when you reframe it or you know somehow steam it or clean it off professionally and all of a sudden it's a brand new item but more than that it's given with heart you know it's given with with intention and it's given with memor which is I think you know the absolute best kind of gift yeah I mean as you're talking about these things I I remember that um this is gosh could be
15:33 10 15 years ago my mother digitized um pictures that she had from going as far back as my grandparents or great-grandparents and then she you know sent them out to all of us and I I I frankly would never have gone to the trouble but it it's it's really been um wonderful to have you know those pictures of uh for example my you know grandfa my matern grandfather you know standing in front of a statue at Yale and that kind of stuff um but so so kind of dovetailing on that though how how
16:08 can one or how would you recommend someone handle a situation where their children or their grandchildren they're just not interested in being involved in helping downsize or maybe look they're too far away you know you live in New York and your children live in you knowfor California they're not going to come over for half an hour and you know help you out because that involves a you know 5H hour plane ride you know one way right so H how how can people deal with with that kind of situation well I I could first
16:43 say call us you know call us at uncluttered domm because we have resources all over the country and I have you know trusted people that I could refer to a job even if it might not be in my geographic location I we work up and down the East Coast but if it's someplace out if it's you know West Coast related I can Absol refer you to somebody there's also um a wonderful service that I actually just started a collaboration with and they actually sit with you and they tell you tell them your stories like real stories of your life you know you could be in your 80s or 90 or what have you and they will dict you'll dictate to them actually put
17:20 together your life story and this is a really wonderful way to keep your memories alive and also for your children and grandchildren and family and friends to be to refer back to all the things that you had said to them and again you know keep it keep it in a log but um they can also do it with you know illustrations they can pictures that you might have had that are you know someplace up in the that Dusty box and they can take it off another way to start but I would say call us I mean we're specialists in this in this field we do exactly that you know I always say we I'm 90% unlicensed therapist 10% on
17:55 clutterer and that's because I understand the psychology of what it takes to let go but we also understand the psychology of what goes on behind the decision-making process you know what do I keep what do I give away and photos and M that could all be put into almost like a a modernday magazine you know where you could pass this around the dinner table Christmas or Thanksgiving or P what have you is a great conversation start and it's a great way to keep in touch with your kids you can make copies give it to your children for birthdays or anniversaries or a special occasion when you get
18:31 together but this is a this is another way that I'm finding to lessen people's paper trail but more importantly preserve the memory and I can I'm happy to anybody wants to reach out to me I can put them in touch with this company but I thought brilliant you know just a very simple way in which to to keep you know to keep it accessible the stories of your accessible well and and I'll I'll put your contact information in the show notes um as well so if people want to get get a hold of you they can so I'm going to take a break here for just a moment um to remind people that that this is trust and Estates weekly um one
19:07 of the way to wow shows and if if you like what you're learning here I encourage you to join our LinkedIn group it's called trust and Estates experts and you can just you can just go to LinkedIn and search for for the group trust and Estates experts and and click uh you know join and and when I see that pop up I will be happy to admit you to the group and the nice thing about the group is it gives you a place to ask questions so if if something comes up either that is outside of your area of expertise
19:44 typically we find there are other people in the group who can fill that in for you or maybe it is within your area of of expertise but you just want to run it by someone else to to get their thoughts so uh both both of those um are are um possible within the group as well as if you have um work that you're doing uh content that you're making I should say on the topic of of Estate Planning and trust and estate Administration always welcome to post it there so my friend Lori Israel who is um one of the top um
20:22 people dealing with prenuptual agreements which do play into estate planning so you will see uh Lori posts from time to time in the group so again the group is on LinkedIn it's called trust in Estates experts and if you're interested in the subject and involved with it I invite you to join so my my guest today again is uh is Hillary Cooper of uncluttered based in Manhattan New York City and we're talking about preparing for downsizing so so Hillary um I I imagine
21:00 that um you you deal with people um who are you know getting on in years so to speak they may have a big house and and it's for various reasons it's no longer um practical or feasible for them to remain in that big house or maybe they need to go to Assisted Living something like that so um and and and and yet there's this big accumulation of of of of personal property or cars or all these other things so um when when when it's not an
21:36 issue of someone passing away but it's more of a life transition um that that they're making um and and and it's it's time sensitive uh you know what what do you recommend for people in terms of dealing with it especially if maybe you know they're they're you know kind of on the older side maybe they're not as uh you know spry as as they used to be and so carrying lifting and carrying boxes and all that kind of stuff right it it's really a burden what what can what can people do um there's you know to to to
22:15 to make this this transition um you know more feasible I guess is the best way to put it yeah no I would say thank you Kevin I'd say about 70% of unuttered business right now is transitioning seniors to assist from their apartments or their homes that they've lived in for upwards of 50 years and that of course the first and first part of that is it is very physically demanding it is not you know a lightweight kind job so we have a te people depending upon the size of the job and we call on our experts to
22:51 come in first and help size up what items would be resold if possible if there's something there said earlier in the podcast start with trying to figure out a way to to mon makes everybody feel great and then at uncluttered what we do is a proposal for the client on the amount of time and the scope of the job and then from there we then subdivide it into smaller you know we'll have a team that'll work on a living room and a team that'll work on the bedrooms and a team that'll work on the study or the den or what have you and we work that way for a couple of hours at a time I find that most people
23:27 seniors or the like just don't really have the emotional bandwidth to do more than you know maximum three hours at a time because it's deal if you've lost a spouse or you know what have you everybody you don't live you don't get to you know we'll call it the rip bu's age of 90 moving into assisted living facility New York without having you know some hiccups along those 90 years so it's going to take a little while to you know go through it and we want to you know prioritize our clients peace of mind and feel that you know if items have a story we give them the opportunity to tell the
24:02 story hence the collaboration with a with a company that you know does a does a book based upon your life story for you that's you know again incredible but that idea is that you know you can sort of transition to downsize as painlessly as possible you know my company was built on you know transparency and honesty and integrity and compassion because this is the hardest part of this is you know never making anybody feel that they have too much stuff you know people this is there's there's a there's a bit of a shame to you know sort of
24:38 accumulation of things and there shouldn't be you know people like to you know the Marie condo and the you know the this what is it the Swedish death cleans like that is you know of the rage right now is that everybody likes to think that they're a minmalist you know it's like there's a there's almost a sense of s satisfaction in saying that have less rather than more you know it's come to my home oh look everything's put away look at my children's playrooms there's no toys out you know look at white shirts lined up and then I have
25:13 10 Navy Blazers and I have three pairs of jeans and you know there's there's a bit of I don't know Showmanship that goes along with saying that you have less and I understand that completely I mean my path has been very different I personally had to move many times with my kids after I got divorced and I've learned to and the kids have learned of things that really don't well and that's that's a tough lesson to learn when you're young it's especially difficult to do when you're elderly so majority of my business now is towards seniors downside which is why trusted Estates
25:48 weekly I go to because it's all about talking to trust estate's attorneys and real estate brokers and you know anybody there for transition prior to size and when people go and they tour the highend assisted living facil the idea is that they're moving into a vertical cruise ship you know you are all one-bedroom apartment because you're not meant to spend your time in your apartment you're meant to spend your time in the common areas and this is a this is all their age it's Inspire it's codery it's Sunrise it's all of
26:24 these super high-end you know the Atria super highend to living facilities that have everything starting 7:00 in the morning from any exercise class imagine most of them have pools they all have PT on staff and then from that it's breakfast lunch and dinner you know Michel and chefing in the kitchen that are there just to story that the people that live there are as absolutely catered to as they can be it's a wonderful way to transition from by yourself surrounded by your things which at times most of us think you comfort but when you realize when they're not
27:00 there and you're streamlined what a great second chapter this could be and that's the idea of these Assisted Living places that you know there's book clubs there's Maron there's all sorts of activities don't want you in your apartment so most of my clients move in with as little as possible and if they're things have to hold on to they go into the storage unit but that's only after they've been really streamlined and curated by us as a team because I don't want someone to Kick the Can so you know if you're taking a three-bedroom apartment you're moving into you know a 500 foot beautiful you know luxury high-end assisted living
27:35 facility the last thing and it's not it's we don't do our job if we do that if we take 25 put it into a storage unit someplace then we've just and the idea that you know you start sooner rather than later is a timely process and you do it so that you don't feel rushed you know you want to do it so that you enjoy en you enjoy the journey tell the story we have people on staff like myself and my my colleagues and they sit there and they listen and we help you figure out how this is going to be a happy project
28:10 you know it's all about the psychology behind all of this is that transition doesn't have to be bad transition can be great transition can set you free and that's the key to this you know most people feel transition and they say uh some changes changes on the horizon that's not going to be good it's with uncluttered the opposite you know our our Doctrine is that change is good we'll help you through this we will make you know moving is up with the top most stressful things you know course death and taxes so we try to pride ourselves on our corporate Mantra of you know how
28:46 down how downsizing can truly be uplifting let alone painless but just uplifting can be enjoyable can be a trip down memory lane you know be you know documenting all of these wonderful you know stories that you might have into either digital or you know handheld book that you can pass along to kids that's so much of a better way to look at it than you know wo is me I've got so much stuff to get rid of and that's why you know the the uh collaboration with all of these wonderful vendors that I've been fortunate enough to come in contact with in the last three years have been amount of importance to building my
29:21 business and I'm to share and again I know my contact will be in there and any questions so I can help you and if you're in a different part of the country then you know the Upper East Side of York City I've gotes and I'm happy to share them with any of your with any of your base great so one one last question and then we're we're gonna have to wrap this up um how often are are you um finding the situation where um still both spouses are alive and yet they're you know they're having to transition to um another and typically or perhaps smaller you know
29:58 living situation and and yet the two of them are in Conflict about what should be kept what should be gotten rid of and and and and how you know um H how do you deal with that situation right because if it's a married couple and an older married couple you know you could be dealing with literally Decades of you know hostility that's now coming out right as they as it plays out over you know um this this this particular situation luckily I haven't had a lot of those moments but I would say when it's
30:35 a divorce situation because I've had that too when people are moving they they're sort of divvying up their items and I've been I've been called in by the divorce attorney to help them you know navigate know who gets what is different than who wants what you know you might have legality okay well he keeps the house and he gets most of the Furnishings or vice versa or something like that um so we've we've dealt with some sticky situations in that regard I mean I find that the best way is sort of divide and conquer you know you could say to let's just we for argument sake we'll say there's an 85 year old couple
31:10 and they're you know they've been married for you know 55 years and they're divvying up stuff because they're moving to jointly moving to an assistant living facility say that I would have the husband in one room with two members of my staff and the wife and another and then we would come together after we sort of jotted down the list separately compiled a what's important to keep and what they're okay to give away with and you know it's it's it's like mediation 101 over here right you know you you say okay well what are your absolutes what do you absolutely cannot get rid of what are your babies and what are your you know sort of the
31:45 non-negotiables versus the non is probably the best way to put it inevitably there will be items you know baby Grandam pianos this seems to be this is my hot ticket for the start of 25 everybody has a baby grand pi and sadly there's very little resale value I was putting that out there to the universe and it's really hard to even find a spot to donate and I think that people that were sort of starting their their families and their homes from the 40s all the way to the 90s felt that the piano was something that they had to have as a centerpiece in their living
32:20 room and how to play piano and it's just it's it's Bor tragic I mean Steinway you we can't do anything with them but anyway that is in aside it's a great example of saying the large items are much more difficult to divy up you know we never want anybody to be upset about getting rid of three sets of silver so you can keep all three sets of silver but what would you do serving pieces out of each one of them you'll incorporate them into your daily life you'll them in your rest of the stuff you'll give to your your grandsons your sons your daughters take six forks no one will say
32:55 no take you know 50 pound three chest of silver that you that I understand saying no to but if you make it small and you pass it along that way that usually works and I find that couples or people don't argue with that sort of that that sort of mentality so that's probably the best the long answer to your short question Kevin is the best way to do it is to divide and conquer and then come up with a list of non-negotiables and negotiables and you work from there but I think people in just feel a great sense of relief when this process is done and as it's happening as
33:32 it'sing they also have a great sense of relief so they work with them because they they happily because they feel good about letting go of stuff and that seems to really be the key it's a hard it's a hard thing to stop it's like it's like a weight loss right it's a hard thing to start once you get the ball my jeans are too big on me you know after two or three weeks going to the gym is not hardship but it turns into a habit and it's the with parting with items it it's hard to start but once you get the ball rolling boy open up a closet and say look I've got SP and I can have guesss
34:07 over because I feel like my apartment or my home looks really presentable and I'm streamlined and that's you know that gives you boasting rights and it makes the process that much easier just just get started that's it that's what we say every day it's it's just just start could be 10 minutes a day just clean out what's underneath your sink in your kit old products in your bathroom you know just walk in with a with a big garbage bag and throw it all into recycle and you'll feel that much better very good well H thanks so much for for checking in with us uh today it's always great
34:42 speaking with you and and and always an opportun opportunity to you know figure out better how to deal with this there there aren't I think many people focused on this aspect of uh really State planning and then and then it becomes a huge burden in estate Administration I I know I've got another um estate where um the uh the deeden had two homes um and the heir frankly doesn't want any of the personal property um but the daughter of his
35:18 longtime girlfriend is insistent that you know her mother get it and it's like you know okay if if if if you want it you got to pay to take it away and now of course they're having second thoughts about it because what are they really going to do right and it would have been frankly much better if if the deedon had had dealt with it before he passed away and sat down with the girlfriend and said you know what of this would you like to have and and made a list of it and you know did the same thing with his son and and and this could have been handled you
35:53 know in in a couple of weeks rather than you know we're actually if you can believe it in a court battle over this now because you know that that's people go crazy about this stuff so no better better better to start you know as I always my analogy my grandmother always better to give with a warm hand than a cold you know better to see the joy that people receive from getting your items while you're while you're here versus think about it and it is you touched on last the last moment of the of our podcast conversation is that it is very to get rid of items it is very and the
36:31 key is to you know upend that by starting you sooner rather than later you know all of these companies are very and also it's just God awful for the planet you know so you're better off the shredding of things preemptively the you know downsizing of your home the selling of items selling of collections there's so many things that you can do to save this stuff a landfill and it's truly all of our responsibility to do that but you know like I said it's the uncluttered way we do it with transparency and compassion very good well Hillary again
37:07 thank you so much for coming on the show today always a pleasure speaking with you and uh for that that that wraps things up for today so uh first of all I want to thank um our our live viewers for joining us always a treat to know that you're there uh checking us out and I I I do want to mention again um Hillary's contact information will be in the show notes after the the show posts on YouTube so you can uh get in touch with her and and I know she'll be happy to answer any questions that you have or refer you to you know somebody local if
37:42 you're not on the Eastern seab board so real quickly before we sign off tomorrow at uh 10: am Pacific time is my show business lessons from the military and I'm going to be talking about um how to convince your superiors to do something they don't want to do and I'm I'm going to be doing that through the career of one of the best known um American generals Billy Mitchell um famous as the father of of American AV military Aviation so please join us for that and
38:19 then on Wednesday is a special edition of the way to wow show it is Abraham Lincoln's birthday and as is my custom I'm going to be talking a little bit about um his his biography and reading one of his uh famous speeches um it happens to be his second inaugural address which I think is a particularly apt uh talk for us to be uh listening to um with what's going on in our country right now and then on wednes sorry on Thursday is my every other week show
38:56 jigger's place and we sit back at 5:00 p.m. Pacific time and have a cocktail and we're going to be talking about relationships and I have a question for you what do you think is the most important thing about a relationship and I think you I'm I'm hearing what you have in your head and I'm telling you almost for sure you're wrong so tune in on Thursday at five P 5:00 pm Pacific time we'll have a cocktail and we'll we'll talk about that so one last time Hillary thanks so much for joining us today always always
39:31 always a pleasure talking with you and and signing off as I always do Marie darling You are my