The WAY to WOW Shows
Conservatorships & Guardianships
July 27, 2026
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[0:02] Who are [music] you? And where are you going? What [music] do you want?

[0:17] >> Hello and welcome to Trust & Estates Weekly. I'm your host Kevin Bammel and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about estate planning and trust and estate administration. Kind of from the standpoint of professionals like myself and my guest Tammie L who we do this for a living. So, you know, it's [laughter] it's it's you know, it's our job. But but also for those of you who are out there who I don't know, maybe you got appointed as the executor of your parents' will or you have a relative who is not able to take care of

[0:55] him or herself any longer and something needs to be done. So, hopefully this will give you some information that you can use to deal with what is just a pretty opaque process and and help you work with your advisors more coherently. So, so today I'm I'm really glad to have as my guest Tammie L Holloway. Tammie L and I are working on a case together. She's actually the guardian a guardian ad litem for one of the heirs to an estate for which I'm the

[1:31] administrator. We've we've talked about other working on other matters together. You know, candidly one of my favorite people that I work with in in this whole sort of probate and trust world. So, so Tammie L, thank you for making the time to come on and and be a guest on Trust & Estates Weekly.

[1:51] >> Thank you so much Kevin for having me and may I say thank you for the wonderful introduction and Kevin is also a pleasure to work with.

[1:57] >> Oh, okay, here's $20.

[2:00] >> [laughter]

[2:04] >> We're sort of the mutual admiration club here.

[2:07] >> [laughter]

[2:07] >> So, um tell me you know what I always do, please tell us tell us a little bit about your background so people can get to know you, they can understand, you know, kind of how you came to this work. It's it's I found find it's usually a kind of an interesting story and not often a direct one, so.

[2:26] >> Well, um to be honest with you, I am a second generation attorney. So, I like to tell people I didn't have much of a choice. So, um both my parents were attorneys and uh I always saw myself as becoming like a spymaster, but my parents suggested I should pursue law school, get that out of the way, um and then, you know, follow my spy dreams. Uh but before that could happen, I kind of fell in love a little bit with the law, I would say. And um I went to law school in BU. I started off as a public defender. They were at that time

[3:01] pioneering a new program called like civil public defenders. So, they kind of routed me into working with guardianships, um more through children who had been found um by the system or were being um singled out because they were having problems at school. So, I kind of had to like train myself because it was like a whole new office and no one knew what we were supposed to be doing. And in that mix, I started to dive into special education because um a lot of my kids I was noticing were getting into trouble and having issues because they had disabilities or were

[3:36] having trouble learning. And so, I kind of started teaching myself in that space and also working with the children who were on the guardianship front, trying to assess the situation, make sure they were ended up in a safe place. Um and that's kind of how I fell into the guardianship uh practice. It got a little too cold um when I was in Boston. That's the two cents.

[3:59] >> [laughter]

[3:59] >> The roof started to fall in. The snow got so heavy um and we weren't getting any sun. The snow couldn't melt. And so roofs were just falling in on the Brown University gym and roofs were falling in on all of the different buildings um in our area and I said, "It's time to go home." cuz I I'm born and raised in LA and it's time for me to be back in the sunshine. So I moved back and the first thing my dad said to me is you already know how to do these guardianships. You need to get involved in the probate world. And that's how I found my way into probate. And then expanded into conservatorships, uh limited uh LPS mental health conservatorships, and general

[4:34] conservatorships. And still, you know, dovetails with a lot of special education. So that that kind of became my focus, probate and special ed.

[4:43] >> Gotcha. Uh uh uh you know, again, so interesting, right? Because um uh uh one I I never would have made any kind of connection between special education and probate and yet the minute you mentioned it, it's it becomes so obvious that that the two will go together because for a child who's struggling that that that struggle often times manifests itself in in many different ways and so they they need much broader support than just, you know, a special a special ed teacher at school or on the

[5:20] other end someone to you know, look after their well-being, right? It's more holistic.

[5:25] >> Exactly. And then afterward, as they reach majority, then there becomes a question as to did this person get enough skills to manage on their own? And that's when people start considering limited conservatorships versus maybe more independent self-determination programs. Can this person execute a power of attorney? Can this person um would this person benefit from a conservatorship right now? Maybe revisiting some other estate planning tools later. So that's kind of sometimes my clients come to me from the special ed world and say, what do I do now? My child's 18, but I don't really think or

[6:00] I'm not sure if they can do this yet. And then it also, you know, carries over into their own estate plan. Do I want to leave them funds outright? Maybe I should be considering a special needs trust. So that's kind of how I get into counseling people as to like what tools are available. An able account, a special needs trust, maybe a pooled trust if it's just enough money to be annoying. Kevin, you know all about that.

[6:23] >> [laughter]

[6:28] >> You know, so.

[6:29] >> [laughter]

[6:30] >> You just you just got a sample of of Tamiel's personality. She will oftentimes drop these rather pithy statements on me.

[6:38] >> [laughter]

[6:39] >> That's why you see me laughing a lot of the time when we're talking. It's because yes, that is so true.

[6:45] >> [laughter]

[6:45] >> So yes, you know, it does it happens to our clients where they're saying like, you know, I want to leave or grandma for example wants to leave funds or another family member, but it's not, you know, it's below let's say a hundred thousand. It's below even two hundred and fifty thousand and they think, well, do I need to create a special needs trust? And then I start saying like, you know, let's think about the cost of administration. You know, who's going to administer it? There's going to be cost and taxes and maybe attorney fees. So if it's you know, just enough, maybe you should think about a pooled trust or maybe like sometimes people should, you

[7:20] know, think about more than one tool. You can put an able account is like a wonderful thing that came up not too long ago that allows people to put depending on your state somewhere around 17 to 20,000 dollars a year and then it maxes out at a certain point, but to get started, it's nice to have that there. It doesn't impact your social security, your SSDI benefits um, long as a person can show that they had a disability before they reached a specific age. So, you know, sometimes it's just telling people like what's available so that they can better serve a family member later.

[7:53] >> So, let's let's take a bit of a step back for a minute and then we can go back into some of these, but if if you would explain what is a conservatorship and what is a guardianship, how are they different? Cuz I think I know I was talking to, um, a lawyer I know in, um, I think it was Alabama.

[8:13] >> Oh, yes.

[8:13] >> were talking about those terms and I think in Alabama, for example, they they define them differently than they do here, right? It's I mean, all of these are sort of features of state law, right? So, for here in California, where you practice, explain those two of us so we can we can better understand you know, what what we're talking about.

[8:36] >> That's a good point, Kevin. Like, in some states, they call everything a guardianship, um, for adults and for minors. As opposed to here in California, if you're dealing with a person under the age of 18, then that person would qualify for a guardianship. Um, and then there's some specialized circumstances, um, immigration-related, like special immigrant juvenile status, for example, where sometimes we see people who are put on guardianships who are over 18 for very specific reasons. But for the most part, it's for people under 18. And then a conservatorship kicks in for people over 18. So, there are different kinds of conservatorships.

[9:12] For example, um, there's a LPS. So, that's a mental health conservatorship. If a court deems you to be gravely disabled is the term we use, meaning like you can't provide for your food, clothing, and shelter, and you have a mental health disorder, such as schizoaffective, uh, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, uh, and you have to take psychotropic medication, then that would be the best type of conservatorship for that individual. And here comes another exception. There are specific circumstances where we may actually have minors placed on LPS conservatorships because they are the most restrictive

[9:47] and they have the most due process. Uh because we're we're forcing people essentially to take psychotropic medications and or go to locked residential placements for more assistance.

[9:57] >> Oh, wow.

[9:58] >> Um yes, they have the the right to have a trial every single year. Um they can have a jury trial or court trial to you know, essentially get off a conservatorship. Um versus the general conservatorship is more of what we think of when someone has maybe a traumatic brain injury, they get get in a car accident or has any other health issue. Unfortunately, I've seen people have a myriad of medical problems that have come up but have left them incapacitated in that they can't manage their finances or they can't manage their medical decisions anymore. And so then maybe a family member, it could sometimes it's a spouse unfortunately if there's no estate planning done, then the spouse

[10:34] has to has to kick in or a mom, you know, grandma, anyone who's available who cares. And usually if there's funds involved, the court would like to see that that person is bondable um to make sure that they're the funds would be protected and that that person is competent to manage everything that needs to be managed. Um in that circumstance, um we also see maybe dementia like our think of our grandparents or other elderly people who are maybe needing a little more assistance now. Um bills are falling behind or maybe there needs to be a big move, a selling property to make sure that we can ensure care. Then that you

[11:09] might consider a conservatorship for your loved one on the general side. The limited conservatorship now is specifically for people with developmental disabilities. So we're thinking about people who are regional center clients or should be regional center clients. Um so it is possible to qualify for the regional center as an adult um after age 18.

[11:30] >> Interesting.

[11:31] >> Yes. But you have to be able to show evidence that you had that disability or whatever may qualify you. There's this one catchall which which is like a disabling condition that will qualify you that they use that term um before you turn 17. So if you can show that or if there's evidence, sometimes we try to recreate the past um where we you know, we get declarations, evaluations, uh look through school records to try to make the case. Um and that's a really helpful tool for someone who you suspect may have a developmental disability because the regional center has so many resources from housing to uh providers,

[12:06] care, respite, therapies. If if someone might benefit from it, it is definitely worth investigating. So that's with the limited conservatorship space. So limited, we're thinking developmentally disabled adults, LPS, mental health concerns in general, medical conditions, and/or maybe dementia or other health conditions that might qualify for a conservatorship. And the thing about the general is, once it's granted, there's not as much due process in that it's not going to be up for trial every year. There will be a probate investigator who's checking in every couple years that will go visit the

[12:42] home, visit the conservatee, speak with the conservators to make sure one, everyone's still alive. Unfortunately, I have seen seen the situation where like conservators are passed and everything just keeps rolling along because the person's in a facility, but no one was aware that there's vacancies. So like like thankfully our probate investigations office in LA County is is now, you know, every couple years checking in on the job, looking out to make sure individuals cuz unfortunately someone on conservatorship may not have the wherewithal to let everyone know, you know, no one's at the wheel.

[13:13] >> Right. Wow.

[13:16] >> [laughter]

[13:16] >> I mean I don't you know, it's interesting cuz I don't get involved in conservatorships for the most part and and it's it really is a whole different world from uh you know probate from trust and estates in in in that regard. My understanding is that conservatorships can focus on in essence the person and their well-being or they can focus on finances or I guess both.

[13:47] >> Correct.

[13:48] >> How does how does that break down?

[13:50] >> So usually if someone has just public benefits for example like we know that the person's qualifying for disability through SSI and or they have I don't want to use the word de minimis but like they don't have much in terms of like an account. They don't own real property and there's just very minimal funds that needs to be managed. Usually the court will just put a conservatorship of the person in place. So we're thinking just to give you a ballpark number less than $15,000 at play.

[14:20] >> At their year you mean?

[14:22] >> It's into their name and any comparable

[14:24] >> I see. Okay. Got you.

[14:25] >> Yes. Less than $15,000 and usually they're have some kind of public benefit connection. That individual will probably only needs a conservatorship over the person versus a person that has more than that may need an estate. So like minimum bond is usually for around like $20,000. So if there's that amount that's what we were talking about that amount of money that's just annoying. Let's say there's $25,000 it's just annoying. It's not enough to justify maybe the doing a annual or every two-year accountings that the court requires. So sometimes in that

[15:00] situation the court might waive accounts but put an estate power in place just to make sure that those funds are available. There's an inventory and appraisal there and if anything's being spent down that the court understands why it's being spent down. So it may not be a formal accounting but like a waiver of account that needs to be filed.

[15:18] >> [clears throat]

[15:18] >> Just to give you an example like in a situation like that often times I'll see people who will get a huge back pay amount. And when I say huge, it's huge for our social security system. Might be $100,000. It'll be a big back pay amount. Where that person, for whatever reason, didn't get the appropriate amount in years past. So now, all of a sudden, we have somebody who's only a conservator of the person who's getting a big check and they're saying, "What am I supposed to do?" Maybe they're bondable, maybe they're not. And and we don't want to have to change everything around and we don't want to increase the the cost of this conservatorship by maybe appointing a

[15:53] fiduciary because those fees are going to get eaten up very quickly. So and that would be a situation where we would use maybe a Z pool trust. Like maybe they'll make that person the conservator of the estate, understanding that they're not going to have direct access to those funds. They're just going to be able to liaise essentially with whoever is managing a pooled trust. And a pooled trust is just a trust where a lot of people who have just enough money to be annoying all get pooled together and managed by one trustee to save cost of administration for everyone. And then and then that person might be able to, you know, give do something what we call like a family allowance or like, you

[16:29] know, provide a little extra money for entertainment every month. And they'll send a check to that conservator of the estate in the amount of somewhere around $400 a month just to make sure that the conservatee gets more of what they need. Extra shoes, extra whatever. So like those are ways that like we may maybe we get around having to have an estate. Or sometimes the court will say, "We don't need an estate here. It'll just go into the pooled trust." And then that pooled trustee will do an accounting every couple of years. So we see like kind of like different tools and different professionals kind of working together to try to keep costs down, but make sure funds are available for people who need them.

[17:04] >> Got it. Let's take a quick break and I've got some follow-up questions on that. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Property specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step. Magnum Property Inc., turning

[17:41] property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396 or visit magnumprops.com. So, so following up on the what you were talking about a moment ago, pool trust. So, um who who creates these pool trusts? How does one find them? I I To be honest, this is the first I've ever heard of them. The concept certainly makes sense. It's it's and it's sort of it's essentially like having I I suppose

[18:18] some kind of irrevocable trust where where you have multiple beneficiaries, which is not so, you know, that's not so, you know, unique. Um but in this case, they there's a sort of a segmentation of the assets of the trust to the individual beneficiaries. That's what it sounds like to me, but I'm I said I've never heard of this before, so you know, how do these come about? Where does one find them and you know, how do you know, for example, that a you know, a particular pool trust is is is reputable because since the it's a pool of very small

[18:53] assets, you know, who has the um the the knowledge and the wherewithal to be making sure the trustee is frankly not, you know, cheating the beneficiaries?

[19:08] >> That's a good question. I usually What you'll see in the pool trust is that there's not a ton of them. Um sometimes like I've heard of like various like maybe there might be one in the state of Michigan for example. In here in LA County, this issue kept coming up so frequently till um an attorney Joel Simon, his office kind of created this concept of the pool trust that we frequently use in the LPS court here. And there's a trustee and one thing that keeps that trustee honest is that they have to account every couple of years. So they will account for how those funds are being spent for a specific conservatee. And then because it's

[19:44] pooled that minute it's pretty straightforward and keeps their cost down because everyone's funds are going to be routed the same way. It's just a matter of like tracking the funds in that pool of funds. Uh so that's uh but there are attorneys uh in that case that law firm created it and then there's a trustee that manages it and that trustee accounts every couple of years. There are other pool trusts around, but that's the one that I use the most frequently just because I know that person to be reputable. And like you said, that's always a good question. How do you know an attorney is reputable?

[20:12] >> [laughter]

[20:12] >> Right. Right.

[20:13] >> And uh-huh.

[20:15] >> No, this is very much like a broker a real estate broker's trust account, right? And where do you see you know, so many violations among real estate brokers? Trust account management, right? Cuz it's it's it can be a you know, that they have to account as well, but it when you're dealing with all sorts of individual clients in small amounts, it's it's that's not a that's not a simple accounting task, so.

[20:42] >> No, it's not. And you do need somebody uh you know, who's real very familiar with accountings. Joel Simon's been practicing since before I was born, so.

[20:50] >> Oh.

[20:51] >> [laughter]

[20:52] >> They know they definitely know what they're doing. Uh and uh

[20:55] >> That's that's only about 25 years ago, so.

[20:58] >> [laughter]

[20:59] >> Be kind. So, I mean it's funny cuz now we're we're kind of in the golden age of of people living longer and people wanting to continue to practice because they enjoy what they do. And so we're we're seeing attorneys practicing 50, 60 years now. That's not totally uncommon. Um but to backtrack for a second, one thing that I did not explain that I think would be helpful is we do unfortunately, you know, I'm in LA County. We have a huge mental health crisis here. We have a big that really dovetails with the homeless situation that we have.

[21:30] >> Right.

[21:30] >> And people are constantly trying to help their family members. And so as we know, the state created this concept of a care court, which is very much voluntary. And people say, "Well, what do I do if I have a family member?" And unfortunately, you cannot apply for LPS conservatorship directly as a member of the public. So you can apply for a general conservatorship, you can apply for a limited conservatorship, but not for an LPS. That process can only be started by the public guardian's office.

[21:59] >> Oh, interesting. And and how would the public guardian's office even know to initiate that process? How does that come about?

[22:10] >> So that's where you can be an advocate as a concerned family member or a citizen. You can call them, and I have to say you have to be persistent, and you have to say, "This is where this person is. This is their name. This is the hospital. This is the the head of the treatment team. This is the psychiatrist, the social worker. Please contact them." And you ask the psychiatrist and social worker vice versa contact the public guardian's office and advocate to get that process started. The public guardian would then initiate a temporary conservatorship if they think it's appropriate. And typically what they'll do, once they get that in place, then they'll soft ball it to a family member.

[22:45] So for the permanent, and then the family member or concerned citizen, or let's say, you know, someone who can afford to have a fiduciary like Kevin appointed, um that person uh will then come on and maintain the conservatorship annually. But to get it started, it has to go through the public guardian's office. The other thing that you might consider is I have been saying this more frequently is that people will apply for a general conservatorship and then once they get to court and that initial recommendation comes either from court-appointed counsel or from someone else that says, "Hey, I really think this is a mental health." They can ask

[23:20] the court to order the public guardian to ask the DMH to do a specific type of report to say whether or not a LPS conservatorship is appropriate and then order the public guardian to come in and kind of discuss it on the record where they can kind of in the essence get some marching orders that say, "We think this would be a good one for you to apply." And then [laughter] they apply.

[23:41] >> Right.

[23:41] >> Um but that's it's expensive. It's not guaranteed and not all the bench officers react the same way. Um some will say this is not appropriate. They shouldn't be here. Petition dismissed and you have a very expensive filing. Others will say maybe we'll we'll play around with this LPS um DMH evaluation for mental health and see if this is appropriate. So, you really are rolling the dice when you try that.

[24:04] >> Yeah. I I I I mean it it I have a little bit of experience with this because I used to um handle the the real estate when I had my real estate company, I handled the real estate affairs for an organization called Step Up on Second which provided permanent housing for homeless people and virtually all of our residents had some sort of addiction and problem and mental illness, right? And look, I I I I I get it. The the ability of the court to essentially, you know, take over someone's life was abused quite a bit in

[24:41] the past, right? And so um guardrails were put in to protect people from having that happen to them, right?

[24:51] >> Exactly.

[24:52] >> And finding that balance, I think is very difficult because now it seems like it's it's there's so many people who need to be put under you know, supervision if you will for their own well-beings. Setting aside you know, how distasteful it is for us to you know, see homeless people on the street. Of course it is. But but for the benefit of of of the these people who are mentally ill, addicted, etc. Um, but it's it's it's a very intractable intractable problem. I I handled that

[25:28] responsibility for 10 years. We had only one person who transitioned out to living what we would call, you know, a regular life, right? In 10 years, one [clears throat] person. So uh very very difficult. And and it's it's it's easy to see why the court is I think what would you call it skeptical? You know, or

[25:50] >> I I would gun-shy maybe.

[25:52] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably a bit right cuz I I think we we sometimes forget that judges are human beings.

[26:00] >> True. [laughter] True. True. True. They're people. Mhm.

[26:03] >> And they do they really want to be responsible for in essence taking away this person's, you know, freedom is really what it comes down to or much of it.

[26:11] >> And and it is taking away someone's freedom. Thank you for highlighting that. I mean, after Britney Spears case, I think that was kind of like a seminal moment where the court was saying, you know, we're not listening enough to the people who are actually losing their rights. We're not giving that person a voice. We're not letting them be independent enough to have the counsel they want. And it kind of really like um the the volume of that case was so large till it it really impacted how we do things in California. Now, it's much more difficult to get a family member conserved that doesn't want to be

[26:46] conserved. Now, there're still instances where the courts will say, "Thank you. You've been heard, um but we think this is in your best interest." But not as frequently as that was happening in the past. And there are abuses. There were people who were abusing. Um they're definitely uh I've I have been on the other side of that, let me just say. I have represented conservatees who didn't feel like their voices are being heard, who felt like I shouldn't say felt like, they were being warehoused um in places that probably weren't best suited for them. They weren't getting access to their resources like adequate clothing, adequate appropriate meals, appropriate

[27:21] health care. They weren't seeing doctors regularly, and they knew something was off. They They were like, "I'm not well 100%, but they were like, I know my life should be better." Especially when there's money involved, like there in that instance, like a a family member had left a substantial trust. And that person said, "My, you know, my parent took really good care of me, and I know that this is not the same care I was receiving before." And so just being able to go in and advocate for that person and say, "Hey, you know, this person needs to live with dignity, and this is this is how we need about doing that." Is something that we can now do thanks to the Britney Spears case. Um so there's there's good that has come

[27:56] from it. Um especially from the people who've been ignored or whose funds are not being routed for their benefit. But on the other side of that, when there are undue influencers who come in and befriend people who need uh extra supervision, for example, um and they can like uh unduly influence them essentially or interlope in between relationships that they've had that were long-standing where people were looking out for them, such as like a parent or a partner, it's much more difficult to to um you know, to extract that undue influencer than it has ever been before. Um and that undue influencer can go and seek counsel,

[28:31] private counsel that's really working de facto for them and not for the conservatee, and it makes it very, very difficult. Um you know, we have uh or or other cases like Cher, for example, you know, Cher has been working really hard to try to protect her son, and it's just very difficult because there's quite the entourage around him.

[28:49] >> Mhm.

[28:49] >> Uh you know, that and I and obviously Cher is

[28:52] >> I I hadn't heard about this. So, this is this is interesting.

[28:55] >> Oh, yeah. So, Cher we all know Cher is very um very wealthy.

[29:01] >> [laughter]

[29:01] >> Very wealthy. I don't think she needs anyone's money. Let's say that. So, she's certainly not getting involved in her son's case because she uh needs any access to any of his funds. And his father passed uh one of her sons. She has more than one child. His father passed, left substantial resources. Um and now um her son, who unfortunately I believe has some addiction issues, you know, he for exa- when when she initially filed for conservatorship a while ago, a few years ago actually, um you know, he was separated from his partner. He There were all kinds of things going on. But it when that inheritance comes, you know, everyone's reunited. Everyone's back on the scene.

[29:37] He has all these friends, all these people who care about him, um who can act as a wedge between him and his mother, who arguably most people's mothers care care about them and want what's in their best interest.

[29:48] >> Right.

[29:49] >> The unique thing about Cher's case is that we don't have to have that the the old suspicion that everyone always throws out in these cases, that person's only here cuz they also want a piece of the action.

[29:59] >> Right.

[29:59] >> That's not Cher, at least in this matter.

[30:02] >> Yeah.

[30:02] >> And I've had I've had very few cases where like you can literally put that aside cuz most people in California have there's so much money floating around the state till most people could benefit from getting access to a well of money. Um I've had one other case where the person was one of the original investors in Apple. Um and she was doing it cuz she sincerely cared about her family member. It wasn't cuz she needed any resources. She needed nothing from her sister. But it was very difficult. She didn't want that disclosed, and it was very difficult for the other side to judge their case, to judge how far they wanted

[30:37] to go in the litigation, because they kept thinking that this person was going to get tired and give them some piece of the pie that they wanted because she wouldn't be able to afford to litigate. And so you have to I tell people like you really don't know who you're dealing with and you should really do your homework when you decide to drag or protract litigation because you might think that like well if I can only barely hang on they can only barely hang on and that really may not be the case especially in the great state of California. So

[31:04] >> [laughter]

[31:05] >> You know

[31:07] >> Oh wow. That is fascinating. That is fascinating. Well tell me I you know unfortunately for for us Tammie L has a hearing in a few minutes and so we we need to wrap this up but I have to have you come back on and and dig into this some more. There is so much more here for us to talk about and and it's this one of the reasons I love doing shows with people with whom I'm already working is I find out the the are even smarter know

[31:43] even more than [laughter] I thought.

[31:46] >> You're too kind Evan.

[31:48] >> [laughter]

[31:49] >> So it was just it was so great having you on. I just you know any sort of like you know final remarks you want to make before we wrap things up. I don't want to just sort of cut you off you know right here at the you know just all of a sudden.

[32:03] >> No problem. I would just say anybody who has a family member who they're not certain about. If there's a question mark maybe they can do it maybe they can't. You know the first step would be talk to their medical professionals before you you run and apply for a conservatorship. Really try to get a sense from you know the caregiver whoever you can get access to what that person's functioning level is because conservatorships are not cheap. You know the filing fee alone in LA County is $1100. So just make sure that if if it's going to be a conservatorship over the estate and there are going to be funds involved that you really do know

[32:38] this have a better sense of like what the functioning level is of the subject of that conservatorship.

[32:44] >> Very good. Well, Tammie I'll thank you so much for being for coming on the show today, being my guest. I really appreciate it. I'm going to wrap up the show real quickly. We'll talk offline for a minute. So, folks do I have to give the shameless plug I always give? You can see the the the unbelievable amount of knowledge that really the brilliance that Tammie L brings to her practice. Her contact information will be in the show notes. If you look down just below where you're viewing the show, you you should you'll see those notes

[33:19] and if you want to if you have a matter with which you think Tammie L may be able to help you, I I cannot recommend her highly enough. As I mentioned at the beginning of the show, we're working on a matter together already. I've consulted her on other cases that have been you know that have that have come my way. So, you will not be in better hands with these matters than than Tammie L's. So, that just leaves me real quickly the slate of shows. Monday at 10:00 a.m. like today, Pacific time, Trusts and Estates Weekly. Tuesdays at 10:00 a.m., Business Lessons from the Military.

[33:55] Wednesdays at 10:00 a.m. again, Pacific time, People Making Money. And then every other Thursday at 5:00 p.m. is my show Jiggers is Place. We relax, have a cocktail, and talk about all the subjects that have nothing to do with finances like relationships and books and movies and all that kind of stuff. So, lots of opportunities for us to be together during the week. And if you have questions, comments, criticisms, links to social media are in the show notes. Feel free to post those. Always love to see your comments and and your criticisms. Want to make the show better. If If not already a subscriber,

[34:32] please do consider becoming a subscriber on on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcast, the three main platforms for this kind of media. Would love to be able to make sure that you know whenever a new show is going live. So Tammy, I'll again thank you so much for taking the time in your schedule. And that just leaves me to sign off and say, Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage at all times, my friends.

[35:01] >> Thank you.