The WAY to WOW Shows
Navigating Entrepreneurship & Marriage
January 17, 2024
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:00] making money I'm your host Kevin bemel and we're here every Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time uh 1 p.m. Eastern and and in deference to our guests uh let's see it must be noon there in in in in Central Time right in Texas right on the dot yeah exactly straight up so uh we our our purpose for being here each week is to talk about all matters related to um one your profession starting starting and running a business uh generating wealth um someone's always calling in right when the show

[0:37] starts you can you can pretty much count on it so and um um you know all all of those various issues so um for those of you who are already regular viewers of the show um you hopefully remember Aaron Holtzman um Aaron was on uh gosh I think what about month and a half ago or something like that um and he talked about his uh journey through accounting and and eventually uh starting his own firm with with a partner and moving to

[1:13] Austin Texas um and at toward the end of the conversation we started talking a little bit about the challenges that this poses when you're married um you know because I was 26 when started my first business marriage was not even in sight uh I think the only person who cared what I did was my cat and and she certainly you know like most cats acted like she didn't care so as long as she got her her tune attacks she she was good to go um but you know it's it's

[1:50] it's different when you're a little bit farther along in life and and I really want and and uh you know uh Aaron described Kelsey in such GL ing terms so you guys for yourselves yeah right and and I'm I'm guessing she didn't pay him to do that so no yeah so I thought you know this would this was an opportunity not to miss to talk to people who have uh successfully navigated this this path and so without

[2:28] further Ado I I I want to in uce Kelsey and Aaron Holtzman live from a Austin Texas and um so for those of you who who want to know about um Aaron's the the details of Aaron's background you can go to our YouTube channel and and and see that show um what I'd like to do if if it's okay uh Kelsey is um tell us a little bit about um your professional background around kind of where you were at um so people

[3:03] can get a sense of you know these two people coming together from what I understand from you know somewhat different worlds yeah um wildly different worlds in some ways so um I have an arts background I um was born and raised in Texas but moved to the east coast um for college I went to undergraduate school in um in Massachusetts and then uh moved to New York afterwards to pursue acting um so I have a a degree in Communications but um have always been really passionate about performing um and so it became clear that that was

[3:39] kind of a a path I had to pursue and see where it took me um so I uh went to grad school um and got a graduate degree in acting um in Manhattan so I was there uh pursuing my um acting degree and and then uh kind of seeing what what it meant to be a a profession professional actor and um as I anticipated there were there was a lot of inconsistency and a lot of kind of ups and downs um so uh you know auditioning and doing that whole thing a very different world than where Aaron comes from um and at the

[4:16] same time um trying to build out a career in something that would be more uh substantial and more uh reliable if I decided to kind of uh Veer away from uh the acting world not be for a lack of loving it but um just wanting to have you know to feel more rooted um and that was a a big uh piece of advice that actually my father has always instilled in me always very supportive of this path but also um really encouraging me to figure out what what else I could kind of build out um on this side and so

[4:52] I uh was working with nonprofits in the New York area I'm gonna interrupt you for just a moment before go on to that I want to I'd like to focus a little bit more on on your acting and where that came from because I think a lot of people can relate to this certainly when so I I started doing shows you know literally as I I think I was you know four or five years old my two sisters and I would do shows for the family we'd stand in the living room and sing or whatever um and despite being painfully

[5:27] shy um always loved performing and um you know did theater all through um junior high high school and in fact um when my high school you know uh friends found out I was not going into acting they they were shocked they justed this is what I was gonna do and my my Pat reply was yeah I don't really want to starve for a living you know I was up against people um if you know Anthony Edwards he was always Tony to me the guy who played Goose on um on Top Gun right so

[6:05] Tony was he's a year younger than I am and very you know really talented talented guy right and I'm looking at that I'm going yeah I'm not that right so what gave you if this is the right word well first of all where did the passion come from and what gave you the courage to pursue that passion yeah that's such a good question um so I I think the passion came from similarly always feeling um most comfortable when I was kind of performing in that way

[6:42] whether it was singing for my parents and I am not a singer I did not pursue musical theater but um singing my favorite you know show tunes um in my room for my parents or um you know kind of like performing um with Barbies and making scenes with my sisters so that always felt like just like a safe comfortable space for me um I also have two older sisters who are nine and 12 years older and the one in the middle who's nine years older so they kind of were forming a path um and forging ahead when I was still very young so I was

[7:18] really watching them always um and the one in the middle did just that she was brave enough to go to New York and study acting um for her under graduate degree and then eventually moved to California to pursue TV and film so that option was already there because I saw you know my sister pursue it um and I saw how my parents supported her through it and encouraged her to do it and um kind of really you know believed in her dreams so that it always felt like it it wouldn't be um off the table if that was

[7:55] something that I actually wanted to do um and then as I got older especially in high school similarly kind of you know when you start trying to find your place and what it is you really care about I I remembered you know my sister was always doing theater it always seemed so fun I did plays here and there um when I was younger and so I joined um the theater group in high school and just it opened up a whole new world for me and it was really where I found my people where I felt most comfortable um and Performing felt like a a passion that I had never

[8:30] experienced before um and I carried that with me through college but similarly I think there was a running theme of like I love this so much but it's not something you realistically do unless you know you're Goose from Top Gun it's not it's not a realistic path so I'll just continue to find ways to do it um but that's where I spent most of my time and energy and the same thing happened in grad school I I'm sorry in College um where I was pursuing a different uh uh path and my uh major was

[9:06] Communications and I was trying to do what you're supposed to do but I still spent a lot of time and energy and most of my focus um as part of the theater troop and playing these big meaty roles in college like um you know I was uh the Leen who's Afraid of Virginia wolf which means nothing in college but it was such a an amazing um experience and I I just really caught that bug and so um as I was you know ending my time in college and figuring out what was next I had many conversations with my parents and

[9:41] my sister and and thought about it a lot and she really gave me all of the um reasons not to do it having you know pursued it herself and um I was very grateful for that realism and for the truth because I think it's important to hear it but I still feel like it was something I needed to do um even though you know and I can share more but I'm kind of on a different path now I am so grateful that I had that support um and that I went into it you know with open eyes and knew what I was doing and um

[10:16] and so I applied to grad schools and felt like if I get in this is happening right um and so I went to the new school for drama in New York and that experience alone was kind of confirmed ing that I was just able to be that serious about a passion um and learn from some of the you know best and most committed working actors out there and be a part of a troop that way and be in Manhattan that way and again it's a lot of privilege comes with it I was able to do it because I had a lot of support um

[10:52] you know emotionally and and even financially to a degree and so I I I was able to to do that um and then uh was able to pursue it professionally for a period of time um which was just really special um and the you know auditioning and working in restaurants and and kind of that grind um gave me a perspective that I think still you know plays a factor into in a lot of what I do today um and um I was able to be part of a a ongoing uh off Bradway production called

[11:27] drunk Shakespeare which is now um uh in in many states so they've done well and that was an incredible experience um and that's when I met Aaron during that time so okay I was you know Full Throttle kind of really pursuing theater um but also trying to kind of build out um a a path in the nonprofit education World um but yeah that's where that that all came from um and how it it kind of led me to right so one other question in this realm and that is you alluded to I think

[12:05] how the the profession of acting is very very different than you know what we think it is back in high school and and even college right um I know the the most talented actor at my high school I don't want to say his name because I don't want to embarrass him he was so talented he was flown out to Broadway to audition to lead a show incredible was given the role yeah the show opened and it closed after like three performances

[12:41] yeah and it just crushed him yep and he he came back to we we we grew up in Santa Barbara California about an hour north of La he came and he never pursued professional acting again it was such a tremendous blow and and he's he's he's a terrific guy but I mean the reality of it versus I mean he was he was virtually a God to us in high school you know in terms of his ability he was so and he was a nice guy he wasn't you know you know what I'm saying so talk to us if you would yeah what was

[13:17] that kind of coming to reality moment and and and how how did that impact you yeah um it's it's so true and anyone who's kind of gone a path that is not maybe um like no path is foolproof but a path that is just notoriously um you know very fickle and um also very reliant on things like luck and timing and outside factors that you cannot control um Can attest to sort of I think you you many times most people go into

[13:54] it knowing you know I this is going to be hard um but the passion overrides that and so um I don't I never felt like I got to make it I Gotta Be You know on Broadway or I got to be um in films or on TV but of course that's like that's the ultimate goal and so I think for a long time it felt like I I'm going to push through it and pursue it as much as I can for as long as I can and again I

[14:29] think I differently than some of my peers in grad school I also was looking at ways to have that kind of um other path that I could go down in the event that I did make that call which I eventually did um where you know a lot of my friends who are still doing it today and successful today were you know they're that's their 247 they are you know they have other uh forms of income and are um working where needed but that like they eat sleep and

[15:04] breathe this and they continue to push through it regardless of representation and managers and agents and um you know getting booking something and then it closes or all those things that you can't um you can't control and so I differently while I was kind of pursuing it full full steam ahead I was also spending time working with nonprofits and building out that um kind of leg of my uh career because I think I knew that deep

[15:39] down there was a desire for um a life that I have now that um if if H you know if the luck and the work and the passion and the timing didn't all play out I I knew that eventually it it wouldn't be sustainable to be you know auditioning all the time and doing shows um in the evenings and you know also working and um it just at at some point it was going to come to a head and so I think that was really again that advice that I got

[16:14] from my dad was really amazing and really helpful and it and and it felt like really doable I was still able to pursue my dream and not give up on sort of what I had just spent three years um really focused on learning um but I also was being realistic at the same time and instead of spending time working at a restaurant which I did for a little bit and again when when you're doing it 100% that's kind of the only option because you need that flexibility but instead of doing that I was giving up on some of the flexibility to be able to kind of

[16:52] have that potential and I don't love the word fallback because I I it's not you know like a it is a plan B but a a plan B I cared about just as much and so um I think that was really good advice that I got and so because I had that as a kind of a a comfort um and an assurance eventually when I was doing this show uh drunk Shakespeare that I loved being a part of again I was doing it for I think two years when I met Aaron or a year and a half um I had kind of satisfied that

[17:28] itch of knowing what that lifestyle was like and I loved it for that period of time in my life but then when I met someone that I knew I would you know like to build a life with and um wanted to you know do things like um be able to go out in the evenings that like you know consistently or um contribute financially to a partnership in a way that felt stable and consistent and things like that that all that all became very clear to me when I met Aaron and so Aaron has always been the most

[18:04] supportive partner and still tells people that I'm an actor when I am not actively acting and went to you know a million of my performances and saw the same show over and over and um encouraged me to do it for as long as I wanted and would you know I know Champion me if I wanted to do it again any at any point um so it was really a personal decision um where it just kind of felt right it kind of felt like the next step in in growing up a little bit and in um figuring out what was next for me in that chapter of my life so uh I

[18:42] continued to to do the show um but was definitely focused more on uh working full-time um and working with a nonprofit organization that served um underresourced schools um and youth in the Arts um and and um and so after about a year or so when we became engaged and we kind of you know moving forward in that H facet of our life I decided um to take a break from drunk Shakespeare and so just with that came kind of a backseat of um you know no

[19:17] longer actively auditioning and pursuing things like that and and so it just I think right now it's um it's not my focal point but there is I mean it's always a part of me it's always with me and it it feels um really amazing and I feel very lucky that I have a partner who supports me in that way where I know that we now have a daughter and um you know so right now that's the focal point and those are you know that's what happens um but knowing that I have that support in like I did with my parents um that I could always

[19:53] you know choose to you know just take another turn and go back to that path that path that continues to be open gotcha so so Erin you um you and and Keli dated for about a year before you decided you know this is kind of it um in some ways and I I'm just thinking about this now you know acting is sort of the ultimate entrepreneurial venture right after all what is you know what is an audition it's it's trying to you know in essence get a client right so

[20:29] what was it like for you um being involved with someone who um you obviously grew to care about who was in this very sort of up and down kind of work um you know what was that experience like because it's it's yeah I mean I personally loved it I think it was so cool I mean to be able to tell people that my wife was a professional actor still is in my opinion um I mean you know she and and here's the key like

[21:04] firstly Kelsey underplays it but you know she wasn't an off Bradway show she was making money pursuing her craft and passion and not just like you know she wasn't making she was making more than pennies you know she was making enough to live on her own and she also was working parttime when I met her so she was pretty much self-sufficient so me meeting her was just like I got to have this really cool girlfriend I would brag all the time about uh care of herself while also being entrepreneurial so it never never in our relationship did it ever Dawn on either of us that you know I was going to have to support her dream

[21:39] because she was already doing it and so I just got to float in the fly in the coattails of that and just be like yeah she's doing awesome um but uh you know I think for kind of our relationship and everything it really you know it it boiled down to um you know both of us being able to pursue our dream and supporting each other doing that I think um you know Kelsey's pivot she kind of touched on it but you know we have a daughter now we have I don't want to say a a stable life uh not a boring life we do a lot of fun interesting things but um you know I I forgot if I said this in

[22:15] the previous show but you know I had a passion for cooking as well and I almost considered pursuing a culinary career one of my best friends ultimately did that and uh he worked his way up became a chef to Cuisine you know and then uh I think when he turned about around 30 he went back to school to get his degree in accounting because there is something to be set yeah because it's a hard lifestyle acting anything with hospitality it's on a nin to-5 You're Gonna Miss big things you're gonna miss birthdays You're Gonna Miss opportunities to be with your family and

[22:50] um first thing we had a good balance at the get-go and even now if Kelsey found an opportunity we would figure out a way to have that balance but it is hard it's very hard to uh be able to do all of that and to also have you know a normal nine-to-five lifestyle I guess you could call it um so I think that's kind of where one of the big pivots came from which was what do we as a couple ultimately care about and you know starting a family together was very important for us and uh that kind of meant both of us had to make certain

[23:27] sacrifices to be around for who eventually was our daughter um but in that regards um that was that was I would say a very big impetus and that's not to say you know actors can't have kids many do um it's just that it it's that much harder to be able to do all that so when you're in you know more of the sort of you know corporate world I I I use that somewhat in quotes because but it seems to me and and correct me if I'm wrong there is somewhat of an expectation that you're going to have your you know plus one with you at certain times right um and and it you

[24:05] know with with Kelsey doing shows in the evening and such that probably wasn't always the case so how did you navigate you know situations like that yeah you know as you developed you know your career eron um so ironically I'd say at least my experience um with networking and uh my corporate experience I don't think I've honestly ever been to a corporate function or networking event where plus ones were actually invited or even or

[24:40] even encouraged to come um and I think honestly that just comes down to corporate budgeting to be honest anything else um but I mean first and foremost if there were something like I I'll say from a personal perspective I mean all my friends had corporate jobs um Kelsey was definitely an outlier in regards of being an Arts individual um so I'll just kind of pivot to that question saying I supposed to networking and building my career you know what did I tell my friends and two things firstly uh you know they all thought what Kelsey did was remarkable and really cool and secondly I brought a bunch of people to

[25:16] her show um actually this is ironic one of us so talking about corporate networking um I actually took my networking group to a private showing of drunk Shakespeare holiday yeah a holiday event that was our holiday event so you know kind of marrying those two worlds and you know advocating for what Kelsey does and showing her off frankly is really what it is and I mean twofold firstly there's no such there's no con I think Conformity is dangerous and boring to be honest and so if myself or my partner is doing something that is unusual or

[25:53] interesting and that's a negative for you I don't care I don't want to do business with with you then you know um if you're going to judge me based on the fact that my wife's being really cool and acting uh firstly that's a very weird judgment and secondly if that if that's your mentality like I I can't imagine you actually being successful yeah because a part of you know building yourself and your business is you know being unique um you know I I there forget when my partner and I purchased our firm um you know we were going under under writing and one of the

[26:29] underwriters at the lender made a comment to our uh Banker that we were working with and the banker related to us saying yeah why this why do these two guys that have very cushy positions that you know high-paying jobs why do they want to quit and take a third of their salary and I'm just like that you're meant to be in a cubicle the rest of your life there's nothing wrong with that but if that's going to be as narrow minded as you're looking at then you're not going to be a business owner you're not going to be you know someone that can see amazing things and admire it and appre appreciate it uh if it doesn't fit in your cookie cutter you know lifestyle then that's the lifestyle you're going to have and that's not you know worth me

[27:06] investing my time and energy into got it got it yeah so so um Kelsey now let's let's pick back up on your story you're G you're also getting involved in in nonprofit work right um and you said that that was an equal passion to to your desire to perform so talk to us if you would about that and and and maybe a little bit about what is it like to have a dueling passion like that um you know because I mean I can see some similarities depending on where you are in the nonprofit world but also they can be very very different so sure yeah I

[27:44] think for me it was Finding like where I could um bring that experience in the Arts that um aliveness I felt as a kid being part of the Arts and um being you know connected to that in a way that felt while I wouldn't wouldn't be performing or you know exercising my craft I would be part of you know bringing that to other young people um and part of like you know a a world where similar to my experience in grad

[28:20] school or being part of a cast or you know just being with other artists being part of a group of people who care enough about this um that that kind of binds them and brings them together um because you know nonprofit work is not also not the most lucrative but um it is it is more stable I will say that um more consistent and feels a little more like a normal job um but definitely not it's not like I I'm in it for the money but um I it felt like a way to find a a

[28:55] balance between that passion and and that you know being part of doing good or bringing good um or being part of a mission and then also having a life that felt a little more conducive with um where my life was headed so um again that started at more of like a part-time capacity and I was also living in Manhattan where this was a a a not as niche as it is in other communities as even in Austin Texas there are a lot of Arts focused organizations that are heavily funded and very you know uh well

[29:33] attended and very supported um because it's a need and um it's also you know there it's such a um heavily um unequitable system especially in Manhattan and so there are a lot of organizations really focused on bringing that equity in the art space and so I was able to kind of get my feet wet with that and work with um specific school programs um theater programs in schools in like the Brooklyn area and then again when I met Aaron and I was kind of pivoting in that way um I moved to a

[30:10] full-time position with an organization um that was really focused on you know building out extensive programs after school and in school programs um in all diverse facets of the art so it was not just theater focused um but also music and uh dance and digital media um and it was also for me I I was on a kind of different timeline I was experiencing what maybe people experience when they're newly out of college where I felt like you know really like I was doing it I was um you know I was working

[30:46] with a real company and I had benefits and health insurance and paid time off and um I was part of a real team and an email account all these you know big girls things um where I was kind of catching up a little bit later um and it felt really good it felt really um you know it where theater was exciting in other ways this was exciting to feel like I'm I'm making this happen and I'm able to um rely on myself in ways that I wasn't able to before everything felt a little more up in the air um so that was

[31:23] really exciting um and so and I also got to build out program that I care very much about um and this specific organization I worked with um worked with companies like Facebook and Google to provide corporate mentorships to um the young people so I was able to work directly with these Partners in building out these programs so it was very unique um and felt like being part of something important um and so that was my entry into this and I was there for three years um and so the I think because of

[32:00] the nature of that role um I my passion for it really grew and um you know again it was never they were never equal passions but I I knew that this was something I could do um if it wasn't going to be performing so uh that's that's sort of how I I got on that path um and and now you know again the circumstances of life kind of sh sometimes shift what what you're doing and and then that surprises you and then that might take you in a different direction and so now um working in in

[32:36] Austin I'm working with an organization that um is more stem focused so again a sentence I never thought I would even say but um we we're very similar providing programming and opportunity for underresourced um communities specifically for girls in stem who are highly under represented in the field of stem still especially uh girls of color um and so being part of that mission and that you know that area of passion is has been really eye openening and I've

[33:11] been learning a lot um but also able to bring sort of my experience in the nonprofit um education administrative world to that um so yeah it's a it's definitely been a windy path um but I was also able to do that and I'm now doing that because I have a partner who agreed to take another leap with me and move to Austin where my family is so a lot of it has been an exchange of like um supporting each other's passions in different ways at different times when I

[33:46] was you know when we were talking about where we would move and if we would move to Austin I think that was an opportunity for Aaron to say well if we're taking this leap and we're doing this together then I'm going to take the leap or you know that was part of the discussion the leap I want to take is I you know to go out on my own it feels like it's aligning where if we're going to do this then I'm not GNA stay at my you know W2 job I'm going to this this is the time we're kind of just gonna take these risks all at once and see what sticks um so that kind of like um

[34:25] negotiation of uh supporting each other and risk-taking has been a constant theme for us and so um that's where it all kind of has fallen into that place where this is where I am now where I get the the opportunity to really focus on our daughter while still having a career and a a purpose that is important to me and Aaron has the opportunity to pursue a lifelong dream of owning his own business and building it out and we get to do it in a you know know near my parents which I um was really hoping to

[35:01] be able to do to get back home for a period of time at some point and so and now we are yeah so so Erin um I mean we we talked about you know your transition from um to use Kelsey's phrase W2 work to starting your business um what was it like going to your wife right who who is who went from a a path of shall we say kind of lesser

[35:37] stability to more stability right and and is is is going further on that path and basically saying Hey I want to go in the other direction yeah I was like it's great you have health insurance now so I'm GNA quit my job that's exactly no um I think it was just kind of a gradual progression um you know I it's always been an itch I wanted to scratch and so you know Kelsey for the longest time has known that you know this is something that I've been interested in doing and I think also you know for for me my biggest concern was can I do it um and I

[36:14] kind of had an opportunity to dip my toe in the water doing you know some smaller Tax Returns on the side so uh you know I did that with my business partner and we learned you know we can service the work um I learned that um I'm good at talking to people and so I can close the business so it and and we also found a firm to acquire so I think for my wife it was a little bit of an easier sell than just saying hey uh I'm going to go into a field that I have no experience in and we're gonna be at zero dollars coming in um although we did talk about that if uh you know we talked about just

[36:49] starting my own practice not acquiring this practice that kind of happened upon us um and you know Kelsey was all about it and at that point we didn't have our daughter or anything like that so we had the um you know the ability to be a little more risk-taking um I think it everything happens uh you know happened in a sequence that worked really well um because again if you know two things firstly if kelse was like please don't do this I would still be my previous job or I would be somewhere else as W2 employee so I absolutely needed her to buy in and support me in this but also

[37:26] um you know if we had a daughter I would be that much more um concerned about taking the risk all that being said when we did uh quit our jobs uh my partner I quit our jobs he became a father uh in that December and I became a father in that April um and kelse and I just bought our first house so in the span of uh six months we closed on our house I quit my job and we had our daughter so it was terrifying intense yeah terrifying and and I was just scared like I was scared I was terrified

[38:01] because I'm like I need to make money I need to provide for my family and it it was kind of twofold firstly we did it thank God but also like the motivation was there um I think my hardest thing my hardest adjustment and this is why having my wife and daughter do this with me as supposed to being a soulpreneur um and doing it alone was the fact that they reminded me I have a life away from work um because even when I met Kelsey I was you know I even now I work very hard but um you know if I didn't have them here to be like hey don't forget about other

[38:37] things other than showing up at the office um you know I could see myself just working too much um in an unhealthy way and even my first year uh with the firm uh you know Kelsey would look at me and be like what what's wrong and I just had it like you know 10,000 foot stare or whatever you know staring into the abyss and in the back of my head I'm like okay I got 50 emails I gotta answer and what order I'm GNA do it in um I've gotten a lot better at uh being present and trying to turn that off and that's

[39:12] all just been an adjustment and you know having um Kelsey my having my wife and my daughter uh to be like hey you know we're here give us attention for warrantable for it it helped me um rebuild that bridge because I I already had the work life blend from the corporate job where you're always checking your Corporate email even when you clock out on as a W2 employee when you're on your own you're like I am working 247 and I learned to give myself Grace and learn to give myself hey you're human people don't expect you to reply in 20 minutes um you know some

[39:50] urgent matters happen you know and those you know we've been on vacations and I've had to take calls and things like that always happen but um you know I learned not everything's an emergency to be more present and also we had the opportunity to build out a team um so it's gotten a lot better but um I think going back to your initial question of selling Kelsey on it um she you know she gave me the confidence to believe in myself that I could do it myself because if she didn't I wouldn't have done it period so this this is kind of a question not kind of this is a question

[40:25] I think for both of you um and it it's it's maybe kind of going back a little bit but um how much of this or how much of these kinds of issues did you explore before you got married that's a good question um I think I think to a degree my kind of like um you know non-traditional path and lifestyle at

[41:00] least in the context of Aaron's World um was like an entry point for that so we were definitely exploring things like you know I think you you touched on this and and you you answered really well Aaron but um I will also add that like at the beginning on on my end it was definitely challenging sometimes to feel like the luxury of time that you have when you have kind of a fixed schedule so even just like getting to know each other and dating and sort of exploring where that was going was sometimes challenging

[41:35] because if we wanted Aaron wanted you know to take a trip with his friends or go down to his parents for a weekend it felt like always a a very stressful um thing to figure out like this puzzle piece of like um you know I have a show how can I make that work or it it didn't feel like um you you know it was it often kind of was um it was uh I don't want to say ships in a night but it was just two very different schedules yeah exactly exactly and um it just didn't feel often

[42:12] supported by my lifestyle um and the work that I was doing so I think in some ways that kind of came full circle now because we have been there before where um you know aon's I think schedule and work is more consistent and even still but as a business owner things come up things you know that you can't predict and can't control and so similarly to you know what we kind of dealt with at the beginning um and maybe didn't

[42:48] necessarily talk it through or think about it but have just experienced it as a couple um were sometimes back there where you know I now maybe have more of a you know consistent um predictable sense of what my timing is and what I'm able to do and Aaron has to now kind of Juggle that more um and figure out you know how to be like he said present and with us but also dealing with these things that come up and um fires that you know only he can put out um so I think that kind of

[43:23] primed us a little bit for that um yeah do you feel like we talked about other things or um I don't I don't know if we did I think it was always very clearly communicated for both of us that we both have passions and things we want to explore in our life that may require the other to be open to a less traditional lifestyle or supporting the other in that way um and I think we're because of where because we've given each other that from the very beginning

[44:00] um that continues to be an option that continues to be available to each other so you know oftentimes when I'm thinking about what's next for me or if there's a different path that I want to um approach yet again Aaron is the first to say you go for it you're you're you know when I feel like I'm too old or I've you know it's we're now you know past that place where I can just shift gears and try something different Ain is the first to say yeah you want to consider going back to school absolutely look into it

[44:35] we'll figure out how we can make that work um and similarly I know if Aaron one day said I W to go to culinary school and open a business or pursue comedy or something crazy like that I I may be shocked for a second and um a little terrified about what that means financially but I I I think I come from a background of you know believing in uh people who believed in my dreams um and being encouraged to believe in my own dreams and I think Aaron has always done that for me um and

[45:10] I want to do that for him so because of that even if we're not prepared when those things come up I think we're able to figure it out so you have a daughter now um I'm not going to ask you if there are more children on the horizon um what I but I but if you don't mind what I'd like to know ask you is will you in do your best to instill in her the the the I don't know values if

[45:45] you will that that that you both have exhibited toward each other and and if so how do you how do how would you do that just let me set the background for the question just for a moment um you know to a certain extent um I don't mean this in terms of the cultural context but you guys have like a you know 50s TV marriage right I mean to the from the outside it looks like you're able to work through conflict you know

[46:21] and and and and like like you were saying Kelsey I might be shocked for a moment but then I bounce back and I we figure it out right I mean ideally that's what we would all want in in a marital partner is okay everybody gets shocked once in a while but but you know but what we want is someone to respond to us with understanding and at least with an open ear and an open mind right and you know with due respect I'm I'm I'm sure you've had your conflict every marriage does right yeah yeah and I will I just wanted to say that so I don't want to paints like a Rosy the

[46:57] rosiest picture we support each other we believe in each other I I definitely don't always respond you know beautifully it takes a there's a process and there have been a lot of you know hard conversations and negotiations and um you know expectations that we have to talk through and I have to be you know open my mind and Aaron has to open his it's it's hard a lot of the time but um yeah I just wanted to add that because I but I do think we're able to come back to that um kind of understanding that we've built but it there's things that

[47:34] get in the way for sure just because we made it through 50 minutes of the show without an argument doesn't mean we don't get an AR so so then this this I'll take you back to the the first part of this which is yeah presumably you would like this to um you know these values to to be um you know taken on board by your by your daughter H how how how do you think you'll you'll do that because because look a successful Mar in my opinion a successful marriage is not a marriage

[48:09] that has no arguing a successful marriage is a marriage that successfully navigates conflict right and and keeps the partners United loving Etc right so um H how how how would you or how are you maybe pursuing that already I'm not sure old your daughter is so she's uh she's going to be two in April so she's still young for us I mean we're trying to teach her uh you know no means no and like put that down or what have you right um I mean aside from you know actual specific lessons I mean reading by example I mean if you just look at her two parents you have a mother that

[48:46] has a very passionate um love for something and truly sought after it and eventually will potentially pick it back up again and a a partner who's going to support her in that um and uh I think she's going to look and see that she has you know two parents that bought into each other and that's the most important part and also understanding that you know both of her parents took uh what I would consider to be calculated risks we didn't burn our ships behind us like Cortez did when they came to the Americas we didn't um you know we didn't

[49:21] do something without a backup plan or a side Hustle Kelsey Pursuit acting full-time and still got a part-time job in nonprofit which evolved into her career now um myself again I didn't just say hey uh I'm gonna just quit and do something totally outside of my realm of understanding with no Revenue coming in um you know I'm going to build off of what I've already built professionally and again I don't want either of us to stop where we are now I think my whole approach to all this is that you'll like

[49:56] life is an adventure that's why I was open to leaving New York because um you know if you don't like it you can always go back you can go do whatever you were doing but I don't want to you know ever look back and regret a missed opportunity yeah and with uh with our daughter Hazel um she's gonna look at her two parents and say my boring dad became a business owner and my awesome Mom continued to be awesome but went pivoted from a very non-conforming career to a more conforming one and didn't it wasn't a light switch none of

[50:33] this stuff and I think that's the big thing uh at least for our path with this which was none of this was 0 to 60 or 60 to zero it was always a gradual up and down and so you know we didn't jump into the water some people maybe need that you know um I but I just feel like there's you know a big emphasis on if you're going to be an entrepreneur you need to do all of it and you know and and yes you got to commit everything that got to it but um you know you don't have to start at zero you can build something small and then ease into it

[51:08] and that's kind of what's worked for us and with hazel I want her to see her two parents that have you know wholeheartedly bought into each other's dreams and and that we'll buy into hers yeah and buy to hers and learn that hey it's good to have you know to pursue things that are not you know traditional but also have a backup plan just in case and to learn to be self-sufficient yeah and and I think just Bears repeating like Ain was getting at that it's okay to change your mind um that it's okay to try again or

[51:43] try different things or um I think often there's this pressure to know what you want to do what you want to be and go down a path um or that once you're down that path you're you're on the path and it's you know it's too expensive or too hard to get on a different path and I I think because of our own experiences um we would definitely um you know Veer away from instilling that fear of trying something for the sake of it not being realistic or not being you know financially lucrative or um I I

[52:21] mean my gut is saying that I would never want her to be an actor but but I would have to support her because that's that's what we've done for each other and how we got to where we are so um yeah I think yeah exactly what you said Ain and um I think most importantly Ain says this a lot I think it for us it's important to teach her how to get what she wants um through you know her actions through her you know acknowledging her emotions and being true to herself um and that's not always

[52:56] come easy to me and I think that's something that Aaron possesses um and I I'm excited to learn more about how to instill that in her um that she can do whatever she wants but that she has everything inside of her to be able to to make it a reality we're just here to you know to be along for the ride and support her how we can so I mean it it's uh I I I'll tell you it's very nice to hear this so my daughter is is 16 she's a sophomore in high school and for the last especially the last year or two

[53:34] I've been working with her basically as we used to say in the Navy to give her the con because in a couple about a year and a half she'll be 18 if she wants to have control of her life she's got it whether I like it or not right right um and um I think that she's finding it on the one hand um exciting and on the other hand kind of frightening of course course um and I've I've I I probably repeated this to her more times than she wants to hear um I say to her you know

[54:10] baby do not try and figure out the life that I want you to have for you yeah that will make you unhappy and I know that from personal Circ you know personal I mean in in my day you know you're parents had very strong expectations of what you to do I mean I was going to college I was going to be a professional you know and being Jewish I was going to be a doctor a lawyer and accountant accountant and and I only got away with being you know going to architecture school because my mother's father was was an artist and he taught art at you

[54:45] know Yale kind of thing right um and and not and not that you know the path that I took was bad I I I I think I was very fortunate and I you know all that on but what I'm doing now is is you know fairly different than I think what I thought I would be doing you know um 40 years ago so I I I think your message about um you know giving children your giving your daughter a foundation that then she will

[55:21] build on is is is a very important aspect of this and and it's good to see the two of you United in that if you'll if you won't mind an old guy you know saying that to you um it's actually quite heartening I I you probably know this but but you too share some very very common uh values you both care about people deeply you can and I think that's true of all all good performers care about people because that's what performing in right it's it's impacting people absolutely yeah and that's where I see

[55:57] the connection between that and and nonprofit work is nonprofit work is generally about impacting people but I think Aaron for all of his success as an entrepreneur from from from our you know previous show it was really about having a bigger impact on the people he was working with and a more direct impact and that's really what what motivates him so I I know we have a hard stop and about two minutes here so I'm I'm G to have to wrap things up but I I I I thank you both for coming on

[56:33] today that this uh the conversation was ex extremely enjoyable I really appreciate it it was great that you would share so openly with us um you know about this journey that you've taken and and uh you know hopefully we can you know check in U you know maybe uh you know a year down the road and you know us too yeah yeah that'd be great I by the way I have to tell you I love the name Hazel than just it's it's a it's a I mean to me hazel of course is the maid from the show I never heard of that show

[57:09] before let if you talked to my daughter she's seen all the episodes of the show and she she love you we used to say everybody wants a Hazel you know person in your just gonna take care of you so um but but Kelsey eron thank you so much for joining me I'm GNA take just a minute to to wrap things up here and then we'll we'll we'll go off uh we'll go offline thank you Ducks out now than so muchie so thank you all very much for joining us um I I I I hope that the show lived up to how I've been hyping it all

[57:46] week long I'm it certainly did from my perspective but um I it's really you know we hear a lot today about about the challenges of marriage and um all that kind of stuff I I I I think you know Kelsey and Aaron are a fantastic example of how two people can navigate life together in a in a mutually supportive way um and despite the vicissitudes and and the the you know the misunderstandings and such really come together to to

[58:21] create that you know to create one life and so I I um that's the message that I take away from this and and I'm sure there's L there's lots of others so this this wraps up our shows for the week thanks thanks for tuning in today and we'll be back next week uh Monday at 10: a pacific time with trust and Estates weekly Tuesday will be the next Edition oh oh next week my guest I think is Michael zwick on trust and Estates weekly he finds heirs he's like a private detective for people who who are

[58:58] who are lost and they're usually really happy to see them because it means they've inherited something and um on on Tuesday at 10 A.M Pacific time the next edition of business lessons from the military and then seven days from today we'll be back for the next edition of people making money so thank you all very much for watching and wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and a terrific rest of the week and we'll look forward to seeing you again soon signing off as I always do B all of a sudden Marie you are my bell darling take care folks