The WAY to WOW Shows
Negotiate for Wealth & Lifestyle, Not Just Income
April 29, 2026
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:02] Who are you?

[0:03] >> [music]

[0:05] >> And where are you going?

[0:08] >> [music]

[0:10] >> What do you want? Hello and welcome to people making money. I'm your host Kevin Bemmel and I'm here every Wednesday. Yeah, sorry.

[0:25] >> [laughter]

[0:26] >> All of a sudden I thought, wait, today's not Wednesday. Yes, it is, of course. I'm here every Wednesday to talk about job hunting and being an employee, starting and running a business, and building wealth. So, the whole financial side of our lives. And this year I'm doing a a rotation between those three subjects. And so, today I'm going to be talking about an aspect of job hunting and being an employee, and that is salary negotiations. So, uh you know, I I I used to coach uh

[1:01] people coming out of the military into civilian life. I did that for a a few years after I went off active duty. And it was interesting to hear them talk about their situations. So, coming out of the military where first of all, what you get paid is essentially set by law. So, there is a schedule. Uh you could you could, you know, go to your, you know, favorite uh large language model and say, you know, give me the, you know, US military pay

[1:37] schedule, and it tells you exactly how much someone gets paid based on their rate or rank, and how many years they've been in the military. And that schedule is updated each year with a cost of living increase, uh but that but that's it. Uh there's there's no negotiation. Now, in some cases, certain people will get what amounts to signing bonuses. So, this was not uncommon for submariners who were nuclear qualified, for other specialties in the military that were high demand,

[2:13] psychiatrists and such. Um and then there were other types of pay that people in the military get, but again, it's all it's all set essentially by law. There's no negotiation. Nor is there an opportunity to earn things like equity, you know, in the military or or all of these other things. And so, when military people would get into civilian life, I think they they didn't have an appreciation for the breadth of issues that needed to be covered during negotiations over

[2:49] I wouldn't even call it salary. It's a compensation package. I think that's how it needs to be uh it needs to be described because there are things that I think for most of us can be as important as salary. Uh for example, whether the company offers a health plan, right? So, for someone who's got some pre-existing conditions or those sorts of things, uh it it can be uh very expensive to get health care to get health coverage. Whereas,

[3:24] as part of a company, the cost to the company, first of all, the company's going to bear it, and second of all, the company probably can insure the person for a lot less money. And so, if someone is working, you know, as as as an independent contractor, paying for his own health insurance, and he goes to work for a company, how that work how that plays out in terms of the balance between what it costs the company for his share of a health plan versus salary versus other uh uh compensation package items all needs to be considered, negotiated, and and

[4:00] and worked out into an agreement. So, I have as as is always the case with the show, I have a few thoughts to to share with you on this topic. And you know, if if you are uh if if you are currently an employee, perhaps you're you're going to be looking at renegotiating salary, or if you're job hunting and you're and so then of course once you find a job, you'll be negotiating this. Or if you are

[4:27] >> [clears throat]

[4:28] >> working for yourself, but you're contemplating you know, becoming an employee, all of this is going to be very very relevant. Now, I would add by the way that if you have your own business, I think it's important to recognize that a lot of these uh issues that I'm going to be discussing are built into having your own business. So, I'll I'll comment on that a little bit as as I go through them, but I think that sometimes, you know, if business is really tough, it it there's a tendency

[5:03] to say, "Ah, maybe I should just go back to work for someone." So, I I encourage you to, you know, think about all of these issues in in a holistic way. So, so first of all, um we tend to think, as I mentioned a moment ago, that salary is the most important thing. But typically salary is is just a starting point. And although it it is almost always very important, um it's it's often times not the thing about which you'll have the most flexibility in a negotiation. So, a lot of employers have fairly tight

[5:40] salary bands, if you will, um that that um are set for different categories of jobs. The larger the company, the more likely that is to be the case. And so, to negotiate something beyond that band is is going to be difficult at best, right? And so, focus putting a you know, tremendous focus on salary may cause you to shortchange yourself. So, there are other high benefit or high value benefits that are on the table.

[6:22] And [clears throat] so, you know, again, I I encourage you to look beyond salary and and categorize it as just one of a number of issues that may be important. So, I I would say of equal importance to salary is whether you're going to get any equity in the company that for which you go to work, right? So, whether it's stock options, whether it's you know, being able to buy into you know, a legal practice or or or

[6:57] you know, a dental practice or something like that. Having some ownership in the enterprise makes a tremendous difference. Typically not in the short term, but in the long term it does because having ownership in the company for which you work is almost like having a retirement plan built into your compensation package in the sense that if you perform well and the and your your partners I use that term loosely cuz it may not be a legal partnership, but you know, your your your colleagues

[7:32] >> [snorts]

[7:33] >> if you work hard and can grow the company and increase its value so then, you know, at the point where you're ready to stop working, you may have a a very large payday. Maybe, you know, a seven-figure payday or more, right? Depending on on what kind of company it is, etc. So, you know, such such compensation is more common in some industries than others. Um it's it's more common, I think, in in technology companies uh than than in other types, but in any especially if you're entering into any

[8:09] kind of early-stage venture, okay? It it it it should be on the table to get some kind of equity or ownership in in the venture. Now, let me say that equity in in the in the organization or in the in the company is not necessarily the same thing as having any kind of control over the company per se, right? So, let's say you're able to negotiate for a 5% equity interest in the company, okay?

[8:44] That doesn't necessarily mean come that doesn't necessarily come with 5% voting rights, okay? So, there are voting interests and there are non-voting interests. And and again, that can be that can be in a partnership, that can be, you know, in a corporation. You can have voting stock and non-voting stock. It can be in an LLC, right? So, it all depends on how that's crafted. So, those are two separate issues when we're talking about an equity interest in a company. Okay, but those aren't those are just that's just the start of it.

[9:20] Anytime you're talking about taking some kind of ownership interest, there are a number of issues that you need to understand. So, one of them is the structure. Uh first of all, does your ownership interest begin from day one of your employment? or is there a vesting schedule so that perhaps periodically as you work for the company more and more of that equity interest vests, meaning it comes into your ownership. Okay, so maybe you you have the opportunity to own as much as 5% of the

[9:56] company. However, that 5% interest is going to vest, you know, 1% a year or 1% every 18 months or maybe it's going to vest 2% every 30 months or whatever the schedule is. So, it's not unusual for companies to not give uh equity interests from day one. Rather, they're crafted as much as a compensation issue as I'm sorry. They're They're crafted as much to be an incentive for you to stay as they are a

[10:31] compensation issue. Okay, and that's That's not unusual and and it makes sense, right? If If someone's going to be If someone's going to have an opportunity to earn ownership in the company, well, so then there you know, perhaps should be you know, some kind of incentive for them to stay. And if they don't stay, then you know, maybe they lose part or all of that ownership interest. Okay, so once an ownership interest has vested, it typically that means that even if you leave the company, you still retain that ownership interest. Okay, whereas a non-vested interest

[11:06] means that if you leave the company, that it it goes away and you get nothing, right? So, that's that's one aspect of it. Another aspect, let's say you've got stock options. So, what is the strike price of those options, right? At what At what price per share can they be exercised if you're talking about a publicly traded company, right? Um and what are the terms for exercising those options? Will the company lend you money to exercise the options if you need it? Uh, you know, those kind of things. And then, what happens if you leave the company?

[11:42] Right? So, let's say for example that you get an equity interest that includes right voting rights, okay? Well, if you exit the company, are you are you going to retain both the equity and the voting rights? Or maybe, even though you're vested in the equity ownership, are you going to surrender the voting rights? Okay? Because voting rights are only going to be held by people who both have an equity interest and are working for the company, right? So, and and by the way, I'm those are not those are not all the issues. Oh,

[12:17] another big issue is is is your interest dilutable? Okay? So, let's say that the company, uh, you know, raises, uh, $10 million, okay? And and you've got and and you've got a 5% share, okay? And let's say a year later the company wants to raise another $20 million, right? And they're going to do that through some kind of equity raise. So, when they raise that $20 million, are you going to retain your 5%

[12:52] uh, ownership of the company or is it going to be diluted by bringing in new investors? So, the the dilution risk of your of your equity interest is also something to take a look at, right? And again, it's not uncommon for uh, an equity interest to be dilutable, right? On the other hand, if you're starting out with a very small interest, maybe you're only starting out with a 1% interest, and if when the, you know, the company, um, um, know, has has, you know, exercises its

[13:27] exit strategy, you've been diluted down to, you know, a tenth of percent.

[13:32] >> [snorts]

[13:33] >> I mean, is is that meaningful? Well, if the company is a unicorn and you're getting a tenth of a percent of a billion dollars, uh, that's still, let's see, billion, hundred million, that that may be, you know, a million dollars or something like that. I mean, um, but if, you know, if the the company sells out for, you know, ten million dollars, so, you know, your one tenth of a percent interest is what, a hundred dollars or something like that, right? Whereas if you had started out with with uh, a percent or five percent, it might be, you know, much more meaningful. So, that's why you, you know, you need to look at the

[14:08] dilution risk of your equity in in conjunction with how much equity, uh, you can, you you know, you can attain within the company, right? And and then, what is the risk associated with being able to get that that equity interest? So, if you're dealing with an early stage company, it's going to be a higher risk, but there is going to be a higher upside, okay? Um, that that's that is the risk reward scenario, right? If you're in a later stage company, so, the risk will probably be lower,

[14:44] uh, and it but it's going to and it's going to be more predictable, right? So, the company is more seasoned, uh, and so, the, uh, chances that you're going to get a payout as a result of your equity is is, you know, more assured. Okay, it's never guaranteed, of course. So, negotiating on the point of equity is both about the quantity, but also the clarity of the terms under which you're getting that share. All right? So, equity ownership, uh, I think, you know, at least, at least is, uh, important as

[15:20] as salary. Okay. Next is issues like flexibility, incentives, benefits. So, for example, are you going to be able to work remotely or work hybrid, right? So, I have a friend who works for a technology company. He was living in Los Angeles for a long time. That's where he met the the founder of the company. And but then he decided to move to another state to be close to his parents. And then the founder of this company decided he wanted my friend to come work for him and my friend did not want to move back

[15:55] to Los Angeles, right? And so, part of the compensation package negotiations was about working remotely and then also what would happen when he had to be in California, who would pay for that, all those kinds of things, right? So, this can be an important issue if you have children or if you're working you know, you you you want to work for a company that's not close by. Um you know, but you'd also don't want to have to relocate. That that can be, you know, that perhaps that can be worked out. The flip side is if you do need to

[16:31] relocate, so who's going to bear the cost of relocation, right? Moving is expensive, hiring movers and you know, travel and all those kinds of things. So, how is you know, how is the relocation costs going to be handled? That should be worked out again as part of a compensation package. So, what kind of time flexibility do you have? Are you going to have to be, you know, 9:00 to 5:00, right? The sort of classic work hours. Or are you going to be responsible for the results, but but largely on your own to

[17:07] you know, structure your schedule as long as you're available for meetings with other members of the team, right? Or or or sort of mix of those two things, right? All of that should be discussed and decisions should be made about it, right? Now, having time flexibility, this is one of the aspects about working for oneself I think that's that is sometimes overlooked. People tend to think about, well, if I work for myself, I'm going to make more money. That's typically not the case. Uh it is sometimes, it really just depends. You know, the other thing of

[17:43] working for yourself means at least in theory you're building equity in your company, right? But again, not always, it depends on what kind of company you have, what it does, and and what's involved in it, right? But um when you have control over your schedule, which you do when you work for yourself, so if you want to go to your child's sporting event or, you know, you want to take a vacation or a day off or whatever, well, that's that's up to you, right? And and that can be a big uh plus if if you have to take care of, you

[18:18] know, an elderly parent or or, you know, a child or whatever. Having time flexibility can be a tremendous benefit, uh you know, even though you know, it may be difficult to put an actual dollar amount on it, right? It may allow you to start some kind of side business, right? Maybe you have a consulting little consulting practice in addition to uh your main job, right? Or maybe it gives you the time to do some investing or, you know, develop some other kinds of additional income streams, right? Also, time flexibility, it may not give you a

[18:55] direct financial benefit, but you may be able to create a financial benefit by having that flexibility, right? Next is things like signing bonuses, annual bonuses, incentives, okay? So, it may be the case that, you know, that in terms of salary, there's just a maximum that can be offered to you. And and because of how the company's bands its salaries, that's it. But, you know, maybe you can negotiate some kind of signing bonus. Or maybe you can negotiate an annual bonus structure,

[19:32] right, in such a way that it compensates for what otherwise might have been a higher salary, right? And then, what are the terms of those bonuses, right? If you're getting a signing bonus, are you required to stay at the company for a certain period of time, otherwise you have to surrender the bonus? Or do you have to be at the company for a certain period of time before the bonus will be paid to you? How do you earn the annual bonus, right? What what what are the the metrics, the benchmarks you have to reach in order to

[20:07] qualify that? Okay? All of these things, though, can be used to bridge what otherwise might be a salary gap, okay? And then, [snorts] part of this also is clarifying what is your guaranteed compensation versus your discretionary compensation, right? So, if you're entitled to an annual bonus, is it purely discretionary on the part of your supervisor or the owner of the company or or however that works? Or, you know, are are you in, for example, sales? And if you hit certain sales milestones, do

[20:43] you, as a result of that, qualify for bonuses? So, they're they're non-discretionary or largely non-discretionary, right? So, defining those metrics and putting them in writing can can turn, you know, what otherwise would be completely discretionary compensation into kind of a hybrid between guaranteed and discretionary compensation in that you know as long as you meet these expectations or these yeah these these expectations, you're going to get that

[21:18] bonus, right? And then what other types of benefits are being offered? Is there a health plan? Is there a retirement plan? Is there is there a like a 401k plan? Will the employer match some of the contributions? Is there an H is there HSA funding? Is there paid time off? Are there educational reimbursements? So especially in the latter, if if your company will compensate you for it for for getting additional education, that can benefit you within the company, but that can also have long-term benefit to you. It can it can increase your longer-term

[21:55] earnings potential, right? And so although that's money that's not going into your pocket per se in a discretionary way, the fact that you might be able to earn, you know, a master's degree or some sort of certification or go to some kind of specialized training, all of that can be very valuable as a part of your professional development. Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll come back for more. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't

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[23:07] Okay, so next, what about what kind of title are you going to have? What is going to be the scope of your responsibilities, right? So, a a a stronger title can improve your career trajectory, and it can affect future compensation negotiations, right? So, it's one thing to be brought in as as is so common in banks, regular commercial banks, you know, an assistant vice president. It frankly doesn't mean a whole lot. Almost everybody is a vice president of some

[23:42] kind at a bank, as it turns out. So, an AVP, not a big deal. On the other hand, being a senior vice president, or an executive vice president, okay, that that is a title with definite meaning to it. Um, are you the chief chief information officer officer, chief technology officer, right? Those kind of titles have meat Now, have have have meat to them. Now, maybe you're you're the, you know, assistant CTO, the assistant chief technology officer, okay? Well,

[24:17] that's saying that you're the number two technologist in the company, right? And that can be a stepping stone to becoming the CTO in another company. So, I know in a lot of cases I think we tend we tend to say, "Well, you know, titles, they really don't matter." I mean, it depends. First of all, it depends on what it depends on the industry in which you are. And secondly, it depends on the titles. Now, do you want to sacrifice compensation, financial compensation, for the sake of a title? You look, that's that's a decision you have to make. Some

[24:53] potential employers may try and, you know, leverage that issue. But in other cases, if you can negotiate a a a a higher title, so that puts you into a higher salary tranche, right? And it opens up, you know, a a a broader range of compensation, right? So, maybe at a certain, you know, at a certain title level, you'll get some kind of expense account or something like that. So, I wouldn't overlook negotiations over title. Um they are important. Uh it

[25:29] again, depending on on the industry and depending on the level of Of course, once you're at the C-suite level, so then of course, title becomes very, very important. But even at the sort of level below the C-suite, you have getting the opportunity to enter the C-suite may depend on the title you get in that more preliminary stage in your career, right? Next is uh what what are What are What are What is the level of your responsibilities? How much authority do you have? How many people will you be supervising? Who will be

[26:05] your supervisor? Working directly for the president or CEO of the company is more prestigious, usually, than working, say, for the or reporting to the senior vice president, okay? So, the sort of chain of command, as we called it in the military, is very important in the civilian world as well, right? And so, look at what are your What are your current responsibilities? What is your current chain of command? But then, also, what is How does that How does that position affect your potential for

[26:43] promotion and justify increases in your compensation, right? So, I'm going to I'm going to talk about this more in a minute, but keep in mind that negotiations aren't just for now. The negotiations for now are in part the foundation from which future negotiations will be launched. Okay? So, there's a tendency to focus on the here and now, especially if maybe you've been out of work for a little while, and you know, you're you're you are you know, strapped financially. You just want to get in there and earning, you know,

[27:20] resist the the the impetus to to, you know, negotiate short-term. Do your best to keep a broader view of the negotiations, right? And in the end, the title you get, it's not just about the company for which you're working now. It also shapes external the external perception of you. Right? So, whatever position you get in your current company, or what or or that you're offered, I think is a better better way to explain

[27:55] it. Whatever position you title you may be offered in your in the company with which you're negotiating, compare that to what you would be doing for another company and the title you would have there. Right? So, there's a certain aspect of sort of market comparability because at some point you may want to move to another company, right? So, if if you've if you get a a job as let's say senior vice president, okay, with a certain group of responsibilities, right? While moving to another company,

[28:32] uh you know, what you're doing may only be at the vice president level, right? But the fact that you've got a senior vice president title may give you a little bit of a leverage up, uh you know, with look look I you know, I understand that what I've been doing is more similar to a vice president your company, but you know, really for me to take a step down, you know, not sure I can justify that. So, you know, if if you you know, if if especially if you're being recruited by the other company, you know, I need to move across at a at the senior vice president level minimally, something like that, right? So, keep in mind title is not just about

[29:08] within your company, it's how you look externally as well. Okay. And and this is what I alluded to just a moment ago. So, what is your what is your future optionality? What is your exit protection? So, look at the role and where does it lead you in the next two to five years, okay? And and look at it in terms of different issues. For example, what opportunity is there to improve your knowledge and skills? What kind of experiences will you get in that role? What kind of

[29:44] opportunities will there be for networking, for developing a mentor-mentee relationship that can improve your future professional prospects? What kind of exposure within your industry will you get in that role? All of those will be important to your professional advancement. And again, that that they are probably at least as important as what's going on now in terms of compensation package. I mean, unless you're you're content. Okay, what I get now, I'm content to have for the rest of my career. Okay, I mean, if

[30:20] that's the case, fine. But most of us want to advance. We want to grow, not just financially, but professionally as well. And so, whatever we set now, again, is the foundation for what will happen, potentially what will happen in the future, right? So, as you view opportunities within the position and within your compensation package. So, for example, are you going to have the opportunity to go to professional conferences? So, professional conferences provide you with the opportunity to meet peers in

[30:55] your field and people who are senior to you in the field. They they give you the opportunity to keep abreast of what's what's going on, what's changing in your field, right? And so, will the company pay for you to go to those or will they pay for you to go to one or two or, you know, what whatever you might be able to get. Those are important opportunities, right? And to have that kind of optionality, so that really can boost your career, especially over the long term. Right? And then, on the reverse side, what is the downside protection that you

[31:32] have? So, what happens if, let's say, the company suffers a financial setback, okay? And they need to they need to downsize the company. They need to lay off personnel. Are you going to get severance pay? Okay? How much notice do they have to give you? What are the terms of that notice, okay? You know, you're probably you're going to qualify for Cobra if they have a health plan, okay? But, uh you know, how is all that going to work? What happens not if the company, you know, has a setback, but what happens if control of the company changes?

[32:08] Can the new ownership come in and and just sort of sweep the old regime clean and and just, you know, get rid of everybody? Or, you know, do you have some kind, you know, if if they if the new ownership takes over, are they obligated to pay you some kind of severance package? Do you have, you know, they they call it, you know, golden parachute at the C-suite level. So, what are those conditions? Again, you don't you're not planning for failure when you address those issues, but you are protecting yourself uh by addressing those issues up front, right?

[32:44] So, you know, you might raise that issue and they could say, "Oh, no, no, we you know, we've been owned by the same uh ownership for the last, you know, 50 years."

[32:54] >> [snorts]

[32:54] >> Okay, well, that can be a that can tip off in a couple of ways. Is it still owned by the original founder? If that founder has been has owned the company for 50 years, even if he started it when he was 20, he's now, you know, in his 70s. Is he going to continue to go on working? Uh you know, uh what what happen if he passes away? Who becomes the owner of the business? His heirs? Maybe his children? Are they involved in the business? No? Well, then is the business going to be sold, right? All of that becomes important, especially in a small business. Now, for a publicly

[33:29] traded company, that's tho- those may not be the issues, but you can have a situation where, you know, one company one publicly traded company buys another company, and and now there's major layoffs, uh you know, in order to gain economies of scale and and, you know, make the whole financial arrangements of the acquisition work. So, what's going to happen if that's the case? So, these are the kind of issues that you want to address up front, again, as part of an overall conference compensation package. So,

[34:00] >> [snorts]

[34:00] >> risk management, another risk management of the downside, is as important as examining the upside. So, make sure you're you're looking at both of those. Okay. And then finally, this is the the last issue I I I want want to talk with you about. So, uh

[34:19] >> [snorts]

[34:19] >> you know, what is the execution timing? What is the whole sort of psychology and strategy of the negotiation? So, typically, your leverage is highest after an offer is made, and particularly if you've got competing offers. Okay? And And so, that's why uh you know, when you're out job hunting, okay? Just because you have an offer doesn't mean you should you know, cancel any meetings to discuss a job that you've already planned, or that you should stop your marketing the marketing

[34:54] uh phase of your job hunt. Keep doing that. First of all, there's no guarantee you're going to come to terms. I mean, unless you're taking the position I'm going to take whatever they offer, I'm going to accept it and and and just go. Um

[35:08] >> [clears throat]

[35:09] >> So, um you want to keep job hunting because who knows? You could be You could get into protracted negotiations over this one job, and in the meantime, you go on you go to another meeting with another company, they're like, "Wow, you know, we we really love you. You know, we want to get you in there." And you know, a week later, you've got a much better offer, and now you have a decision. You know, you can say, "Well, I'm I'm just going to take this offer." Or I may say to the company that I've been with with which I've been negotiating for the last several weeks, "Hey, look, I got a competing offer here. So, uh you know, if if if you're

[35:45] still interested in having me come on board, you know, you're going to have to you know, up your compensation package or whatever, right? So, that gives you even more negotiating leverage, right? Um In any event, rarely is there a downside to continuing your job search until you actually have a signed agreement to go to work for a particular company, right? That's number one. Number two, negotiations should be collaborative, okay? Not directive. And And this is important because

[36:21] going forward, do you want to work for a company or for people whose attitude is basically, "Look, this is what I'm willing to give you. Take it or leave it." Okay? Now, again, you may be in a position financially or whatever where you're going to take that at least to have something coming in short-term. But, long-term, especially when you view your professional growth, do you want to be working with people who have kind of a, you know, take it or leave it, put up or shut up kind of attitude? Or, do you want to be working in an environment where people collaborate to build the best team

[36:56] possible to build the company as best as possible, right? And so, the tenor of the negotiations is as often times as important as the negotiations themselves, right? Okay, some mistakes to avoid. Accepting the first offer, okay? The the, you know, the receipt of an offer should should al- almost always be, "Thank you for your offer. I'll review it, and I'll get back to you." Okay? I- I- if if the company is expecting any

[37:32] other response than that, then it's telling you something about how the company views you. There is nothing unreasonable at all with saying to a company, "Thank you for the offer. I'm going to review it. Maybe you're you're married, and you're going to I'm going to discuss it with my spouse." Um [snorts] or, or, you know, if it's a more complex offer, "I'm going to be talking to my advisers, and you know, I will get back to you, right?" Um you know, you may decide to give them, you know, kind of a deadline, "Look, I'll get back to you next week." That's kind

[38:08] of up to you. It depends on the tenor of the negotiations, the complexity of the offer, etc. Okay? But, accepting the first offer is almost always bad uh bad policy uh because it's telling the company that they have a lot more leverage than you have. And so, the next time you negotiate, they're probably going to remember that, right? And so, even if in the end, you accept what they initially offered, it typically is still valuable to at least attempt to negotiate a few

[38:43] points, even if in the end, you end up you end up saying, "Okay, okay, I get it. You don't have flexi bility. All right. All right, I'll I'll I'll take what you've got. Okay? You still That's true of negotiations in general, of course, but in the in salary negotiations, you you want to try to at least negotiate it, even if you don't get a whole lot, okay? So, that's that's that's, you know, a number one mistake to avoid. Number two mistake to avoid is not valuing the benefits, not figuring out, "Well, what are these worth? What is a health plan worth? What

[39:19] is um, what is uh, um, the ability to go to conferences um, that the company will pay for you to to to attend? What is that worth, right? Um, what what could be the potential of an equity interest in the company, okay? That that's related to not valuing benefits, but maybe more complex. So, you really want to dig in and understand them. And if and if the information you have in the offer is not adequate for you to understand the value of benefits, ask those questions. Uh, again, there's nothing wrong with saying, "I I I just I

[39:55] want to understand uh, your offer. So, I have some questions about, you know, the the ability to earn equity." And ask those questions. Now, if you can understand them, uh, you may want to talk to uh, a labor lawyer, right? Who does this for a living. It may be worth it to invest a few hundred dollars, especially if it's a complex offer, to get some expert advice. Okay? I'm not saying that the company is going to intentionally mislead you, um [snorts] but you know, look, they the company has its own interests at heart. And so, it may behoove you, even if the

[40:31] lawyer doesn't negotiate for you, it may behoove you to get the the perspective, the input of that lawyer, or an accountant that accountant may be as well, or maybe both. Um you know, it's so you can understand what's being offered, how it will work, maybe develop some questions to ask the company, and to clarify how the offer really works, how the benefits work. Okay? And then finally, the other mistake to avoid is acting from fear. Now, this is a difficult one. I dealt I mentioned the beginning of the show, I dealt with a number of military

[41:07] people transitioning from, you know, the military to civilian life. Often times, they started their transition very late in the game, and they were very afraid that they were going to separate from the military and have no income. Right? And so, that that creates a lot of fear, not just on their part, but on the part of their spouse, even sometimes on the part of their children. Right? So, the best way to avoid acting from fear is to if if you are going to if if you do want to find another job, start that

[41:42] while you're already employed. That's that's the best way, right? Because first of all, you have more leverage. You're you already have a job. You're you're you're clearly not desperate for a job. So, if you can find something better, then, you know, you'll consider it. But if not, well, okay, then you won't. Um but if you are unemployed, and maybe you are financially strapped, well, you may be feeling the fear internally, do your best not to demonstrate that fear, you know, to the potential employer. Stay calm.

[42:18] Talk to your friends, members of your family, or if you have, you know, a lawyer, accountant, whatever who's an adviser. Ask them to help you make sure that you're not making a decision out of fear, okay? Now, it's difficult. If you've If you've been out of work for a long time, you know, you're the fact of the matter is you're probably not going to negotiate as hard as you would if that if that weren't the case. And that that's that's fine. That's fine, okay? But the the the better the front you can put forward, the more successful you'll be in the negotiation, right? So,

[42:57] in the end, as as kind of a wrap-up, okay? Use Create a framework within which you're you're going to conduct the negotiations, okay? So, define your priorities, assign dollar values to them, think about what trade-offs you're prepared to make. And then, as you negotiate, communicate clearly, okay? You don't have to expose your plan or your framework, but make sure that whatever you're saying to the company or the company's representative, more properly, make sure it's clear so that

[43:33] they can understand what's important to you and why, okay? It's one thing to say I need to make more money, okay, well, we all do, right? What is the imperative? Okay, why is it necessary to do so? Is it that you've got a competing offer? Is it that, in order to make a switch from your current job, you need to, you know, you need to be able to advance your compensation at a at a at at least a certain to at least a certain level, otherwise it's not really worth it for for to make the change? What is the basis? Again, you don't necessarily have

[44:09] to disclose all that, but you should be clear about that in in your own mind. Okay? And then finally, once you've come to terms, get everything in writing. Okay? Even if it's just, you know, a memorandum, it's not a full-fledged contract, get everything in writing. And don't agree to what's in writing until it's clear to you and you believe it reflects what's been negotiated. At that point, you may want to have the have the memorandum or the contract reviewed by an attorney. Again, it's it's probably

[44:45] money well spent. And when I say an attorney, I mean an actual live person, not, you know, chat GPT or something like that. It's it's fine to use AIs to help you kind of shape up these some of these issues, to help you with you know, your negotiations, but in the end, there is no AI, at least not right now, that's qualified to make the kind of assessment as to the appropriateness of an agreement. Okay? So that for that you need an actual live lawyer. Okay? So just in closing, negotiation isn't just about maximizing today's paycheck. Well,

[45:22] it's it's figuring out an overall compensation package that really compounds and gives you long-term opportunity, right? And so if you look at it from that perspective, uh you will do much better. So, I thank you very much for joining me. If you have questions, comments, uh criticisms, uh look in the show notes wherever you're watching this episode. Uh they'll be there. Uh YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast, uh links to my social media will be there. Feel free to post them. My email address

[45:57] is there as well if it's something private. And if it's within my area of professional com- competence, I'll be happy to respond. Otherwise, I'll be I'll do my best to refer you to someone who can help you. The slate of shows, Mondays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time, Trusts and Estates Weekly. Tuesdays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time, Business Lessons from the Military. Wednesdays, like today, People Making Money at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time. And then every other Thursday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Time is my show Jigger's Place. We have a cocktail and a schmooze

[46:33] and deal with everything except for finances. So, it's an opportunity to be together as we head to to the end of the week. So, once again, I thank you very much for joining me. Wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do, Marie Darling. You are my bell. Courage at all times, my friends.