The WAY to WOW Shows
An Accountant on Her Own Terms
November 29, 2023
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:12] it's supposed to be going live but uh I'm not sure it says it is yeah oh it is okay all right okay for some Reas it's not doing it's f a little thing but okay [Music] and there we go good afternoon and welcome to people making money one of the way to wow shows I'm your host Kevin bemel and we are here every Wednesday at 12:30 p.m. Pacific Time 3:30 pm. East Coast time and we talk about all things

[0:48] related to uh care building a career building a business Building Wealth all you know Financial related uh matters in our lives and today I am really excited to bring back uh someone who was on one of my other shows just a few weeks ago Von Marie Thomas uh someone who's become quickly become a a friend of mine we we talk on a on a regular basis um super super bright young woman um who has um

[1:25] built her career as an accountant and um I don't know about you but when I was growing up my mother basically wanted me to be either a lawyer a doctor a lawyer or an accountant and and of the three accounting seemed to be the worst because my mother was an accountant and she hated it and and the prevailing opinion about accountants was they had no personality at all now I have since been disabused of that notion I spent many years working with um the

[2:02] California Society of CPAs we planned a lot of events and I have to tell you accountants are some of the most fun people to work with maybe it's because the numbers they have to deal with are so boring so that the rest of their lives have to be exciting but one of my very long-standing friends who's an accountant also is a sailor he has sailed all over the place um plus he and his wife travel a lot he's a he's a fascinating guy so so um and and and that's gener when you when I've gotten to know accountants that's generally what I found out about them so this is

[2:37] this is by way of saying for those of you are thinking oh no accountant this is gonna be boring no it is I assure you it is not okay actuarials maybe but not accountants so um I wanna I want to welcome Von Marine kind of welcome you back although this is a different show but but thanks thanks for joining me again no thank you for having me again I I love talking about money I love talking about fun things of course but I guess it goes to to show yes accountants have personality and the numbers are perh

[3:14] they can be the boring part but I think the results that you get are more fun and seeing people's lives change um as well with the work that you do and making a difference that way is super fun to me that's the only reason why I'm still doing this otherwise I'd be studying how to make shoes and Design jewelry or something something fun I want to play with diamonds some something fun and glamorous play with diamonds I like that so so as is my practice on this

[3:52] show um I want to take you back as as far as you're willing to go um you know maybe you're you know a a young girl grade school even um you know I think as as kids we all have ideas about what we're going to do you know when we grow up and and it seems like that's kind of the standard question we get from you know adults when what are you gonna do when you grow up certainly I had to answer that question multiple times at one point I said I was going to be an engineer and and the people said oh

[4:29] that's what your dad does I said my dad do drives trains you know because I meant like an engineer like a train you know guy guy who drives trains right I was gonna be an astronaut you know and and of course I became neither so it's it's always interesting to hear you know what did what did you think you know you might do when you were you know very very young so the craziest part about all of this is I actually became exactly what I said I was gonna be wow I know it's very rare to hear but I

[5:05] think uh well when I was a kid I I didn't have all the pressures my my mom raised me so she didn't really pressure me to pick any particular career I did follow the money because I grew up in Washington Heights I grew up you know single parent home just seeing all the struggles and I think that pushed more and more to working in a space where I could make money easily and quickly even if it was hard like my my first um

[5:41] courses in college for accounting I almost failed most of them most of the the beginner I yeah but I I literally stuck through it like the friends that I had in college we we all studied together I just had like a really good support network and and things worked out but I worked really hard to to just understand the theories and the topics it's not um it's not in in intuitive I would say if you have no background at all um and I'm guessing you didn't have

[6:17] any family members or or you know Friends of the family who were accountants anything like that a distant cousin but I didn't have a close relationship with her until like later on in my college Years where she became kind of a mentor to me um and she was like good director at one of the big four firms so then I I kind of had some guidance there but otherwise it was just me applying for every program and and doing after school program and applying

[6:52] for the internships and just really going out of my way to expose myself education and and Chang the rooms that I was in and usually it I was the only person on my team that looked like me and I I stopped I've stopped caring since because it's so common nowadays in my life that I'm the only person that looks like me in a room that I don't I don't even notice so it's really I mean it's fun for me I really I love it I love it yeah um when you were let's

[7:30] listen if I if I if you don't mind going back a little before college so you were in when did you decide you were going to go into accounting was that at literally as a child was it in high school where did that decision get made I I've actually done therapy and concluded that the decision to become an accountant came before I even made a conscious decision I think it was an unconscious decision from um an instance I had in my childhood where I think I was like trying to count something and whoever

[8:06] was with me at the kitchen table like slam their hand down on the table and it startled me and and I I felt like I needed to be the best counter of of anything and everything and so I've always really pursued stem even though I have a creatives heart like I love everything colorful creative like I love the Arts like my clients are usually in that background I just find myself connecting so easily with them but my brain works like an accountant like I

[8:42] just want to be the best that I can and do the best work that I can to so um I think it was when I was very young I I can't even say the age I whenever you get homework where you have to count pennies and things like that I think that was the age when when I had that that that shock that really I I almost like took that trauma and and turn and like carried it my whole life and turned it into a career it's like just bizarre like how could you take this fear and just let it leave you

[9:18] all the way here well I would say at least in your case that led you in a positive way some of us right we let our fears lead us in very negative ways um but but in your case it you know it it really LED you in a great career Direction so um when you were in you know Grade School junior high high school how did you do in math which one would assume is kind of the the base for then going on into accounting so I used to sleep in in class like that was me I would I would

[9:55] just I would just like tell people around me just wake me up when the teacher starts handing stuff out like I'm just gonna take a nap I remember my commutes were so long um well actually they were long in high school that's when I was actually sleeping in class and uh it math was easy for me until it became something where I had to deal with Concepts like accounting Concepts and and accounts and and different in chart of accounts and financial statements and like how they group differently that's when I actually needed to be awek so I think that was

[10:31] why I almost flunked out of my accounting classes I was just so used to taking it easy um that yeah I I mean and I was always at the top of my class too so things just I I was just strolling through the the classes it was super easy for me um so let me ask you this um if someone is struggling with math what would you say to them about be becoming going into accounting

[11:09] I.E you know don't do it or you know it's still an absolutely viable you know career choice how what what kind of advice would you give them because I I like my daughter struggles struggles with math which mystifies me because math was always one of my best subjects you know and the thing I love about math is you could always check to see if you got the right answer right yeah now English you can't do that but math you can right um and so that's I think that's one of the reasons I liked it so

[11:44] much as I could make sure I had the right answer you know before I turned my homework in um but I think a lot of people struggle with math um in fact I once did a show called it's not math it's money because I think people can relate to money better than they can to math right um so for for those sort of math phobics what would you say about going into accounting you can still go into accounting I'm actually bad at science and bad at doing math in my head like

[12:20] don't like I can probably calculate the tip on a bill pretty easily but that's to the extent that I do mental math I still use my fingers I still draw numbers in the air I still use pen and paper a calculator it's it's on my shortcuts and my phone like I I'm not naturally good at like doing math in my head but give me give me some tools give me an Excel sheet very good I I'll calculate anything you want whatever you want I'll calculate it for you um that's

[12:56] I I guess you you don't need it's not yeah being good at math I don't think is the key to being a good accountant a good accountant really thinks about their clients thinks about uh strategizing ways to make things easier for for recordkeeping or for um calculating kpi or having metrics just being one click of a button right and using dashboards

[13:32] things like that like that for me is a good accountant someone that can really get ahead of the issues that their clients might have being able to be proactive in that way and plan um and also being really good at communicating as well that's super important sometimes people think that an accountant is going to be locked up in a room uh just calculating things on a calculator and it's not not the case um I think a lot about systems and like

[14:08] the the business areas for for my different clients and where they could have more efficiency and how I could probably maybe even introduce them to some kind of tech add-on that would save them three hours a week or introduce them to someone that could help them with opening up a retirement account because they're paying taxes on money they might not need to so things like that is what I think makes a good accountant and and that that that

[14:43] certainly makes sense and it comports with the the experience I have I I was surprised when I was involved with the California Society CPAs I was surprised how many accountants they go out to see their clients they walk through their places of business all all that kind of stuff it's like they they were not not in the office um a lot of them um but and and really um did the especially the successful ones had a high level of interpersonal skills I guess what we call emotional intelligence now so um ve very much so um okay so so you're you're

[15:20] getting through high school um H H how did you decide which college you went to H I knew that I needed my first I I want I really wanted to work on Wall Street for some reason I was infatuated with the thought of working on Wall Street I ended up having a client on Wall Street when I was in audit and I was like okay great I checked the Box off I don't I I don't need to do this ever again like I can just move out of the state out of

[15:55] the country bye so um I'm laughing because I had a colleague here in California who badly wanted to go to Wall Street he had grown up like a poor farm boy kind of thing right and and he wanted to be he was gonna work on Wall Street right so he moves to New York and he's like he was so glad to get out there and come back to California after a few years like listen it it's hilarious the things that that we imagine are are so luxurious and such a great experience I I don't know

[16:31] what I thought what was I mean I just wanted to be close to to the business world as soon as I got out of college I didn't want to deal with having a gap where I didn't have a job because I just couldn't afford not having a job I couldn't afford not having money coming in from somewhere so there was a grant or an internship I I took it because I didn't I didn't have choices um essentially like the luxury of of choice so for me I'm like oh work on Wall Street let me get a degree in Business let me study somewhere that's a good

[17:08] school but also close to home and gave me the best financial aid package so that was the University I ended up attending forom University in the Bronx and I loved it I loved my experience there the friends I have I still have to this day and we're we're even still doing friends givings and it's it's going to be 10 years or more since I graduated so yeah I've I've had the best the best time the best professors the best

[17:43] Deans um the best opportunities I I left nothing on the table when I went to college I I really enjoyed every part of that okay and so now um you I you got a Bachelor's degree I assume or yes it's a Bachelor's of science um I did got the what I did a focus on a specialization on international business oh and as a result of that I did study Emerging

[18:19] Markets like um we the class I took St was based on the Brazilian Market the Brazilian economy Okay so yeah we got to go to Brazil as a as a part of the the classwork and visit different banks and I just fell in love with the the Brazilian culture the food the people and I I love I love all the Vibes um in Brazil and their their economy is actually super interesting um something I realized what when I was taking the class was

[18:54] that the the favellas are all in the mountain and coming from a place here in New York uh I like the highrise buildings have the best views and it's just ironic that the best views are in the favellas like they they have they're in the the mountain side you know they have the best views overlooking the ocean the the mountains and I think that it's precious like to to be able to you know look outside and see that um coming from a

[19:31] place where there's buildings everywhere and you know you barely get to see the sky once you're in inside of a building here in New York city so I just had a appreciation for that um even though I know that it's it's like not easy the life that people live uh coming out of the faas and living inside of them it's it's really rough so yes wait I feel like I I lost track of your question so so you were um you got a degree in international business um your

[20:08] focus was on emerging markets in particular Brazil and and um I mean first of all to have that International experience I I think is is really amazing because I don't think most college students today even you know get that I know I I I didn't I had an opportunity to go study architecture in in Italy but I I I frankly couldn't afford it you know so um I you know I stayed home a few of my colleagues went but um so with a degree in international business how did that then lead you to

[20:45] accounting and um you know taking the CPA exam and all all of that stuff right so one thing well I'll clarify two things I my degree is in Finance and Accounting and then my yeah my um I guess the major was accounting then you have the the finance piece it's like the sub uh major and then I had this other specialization for the international business portion um so

[21:20] there was that part of my degree and then for the CPA I actually studied many years but I never passed the T like I I never pursued the the full certification for that so it's been interesting it's been an interesting like Journey overall and and my decision to to not take the exam and pursue my business in this way so it's more about what I want to like what kind of documents I want to be

[21:56] responsible for or be signing and at what level and who I'd be essentially doing what kind of work I'd be doing so I really enjoy the work that I do as it is now and I feel like I'm very good at at studying things that I need to study and learning them so that's what I do if I need to brush up on anything so so this is this is really interesting because when people think about accountant this is what I did right I think you know CPA right and yet um I

[22:32] mentioned my mother a little while ago she was never a CPA I mean she could do what a lot of what CPA did but but she you know she kind of came up through the ranks so to speak um she would have said she was a full charge bookkeeper but the reality was she she had you know very complex knowledge she didn't prepare tax returns she didn't want to which I think is one of the reasons why she didn't become a CPA so um and and I think this so this is a really interesting career choice you made um and and and I I want to

[23:09] really focus on this because I think it shows that there are alternative career paths within an area um and and and so you know people have choices when they perhaps don't realize they do so would you talk about you said well you you know you you ended up deciding not to take the CPA's exam and so talk you know how did that decision come about you know what were the things that you looked at um and why you know in the end did you you know make this decision so I came to that conclusion

[23:48] and now I can always change my mind and go back and study for it but at the same time I was just tired of I was tired of studying for the exam I I got to to the point where I passed I almost passed by like three points and I had hired a tutor that year I had done literally the most to study for the exam and something about me I've never been very good at taking standardized tests and the test experience for for me here in in New York City I it was just so much it was it was such like large

[24:26] efforts that I had to put in had to take the day off you had to stop like I was just not interested anymore in in being shaken down at the at the Prometric Center put your pockets Inside Out flip your socks inside it was just ridic I'm like what am I answering prison like I I was tired of of going back for for that experience and I'm like I I think I'm done like the pressure was very much it it was too much for me and at the end of the day the thing that I'm actually really good at is is like strategy and

[25:01] and Logistics and um efficiency th those are my things like if and if I can streamline someone's accounting systems and all of the the transactions that come in and out of their business that's all I can do and all I want to do I don't want to deal with the IRS I don't want to deal with any Le I don't want to deal with I want to sign any documents for any public companies I'm not interested in in holding uh portally um calls to discuss the

[25:38] financial statements and and public this I don't care I I just I'll I'll invest with the money I make I'll be an investor but I just don't need to be the one signing the documents and frankly that's that's the conclusion I was just I had to be very honest with myself as to what the end goal and what the point like what did I actually want to be doing and did it require that particular expertise and so the other thing that I've also been very good at is equipping well I don't know if that's even word

[26:14] but anyway is is really getting together a really strong network of accountants of other people who are CPAs they they want to be in the Weis they want to sign the the financials they want to do this and that fantastic let's partner up because I know how to do the work that will get us to hear and also it's not cost effective to hire a CPA for things that you don't need a CPA for right so that's the other thing I think that with my expertise I do have an audit background like I worked in public accounting auditing um

[26:51] like manufacturing companies and what else um insurance and and Banks as well insurance companies and banking institutions so having seen what's necessary for that I'm like okay I I'm very clear like if I wanted to be a CFO I still could be there's obviously things I I could study and and essentially equip myself with I can definitely do that I don't need to work at a level where at at public

[27:26] company levels like it doesn't it I didn't need it so I'm just you you mentioned several factors that that impacted decision one was the frustration with um the whole testing process um and and and and again this is something that I'm familiar with not for myself but my older sister always struggled with with taking standardized test he a very intelligent woman that it's just and my dad was the same way very smart guy but somehow when it came time to you know putting that

[28:02] pencil to paper it just it you know I it was it was such an upsetting experience basically for them that they they couldn't get through it and and my my sister recently passed the um therapist exam I mean it was a huge huge thing for her to do that something she' prepared for for years and years and was very scared about because of this whole sort of background so it's interesting that um I think sometimes we feel like well I have to overcome these things I have to

[28:38] be able to do this to prove myself your attitude I seems to be to be more of okay there's there's an obstacle here how do I deal with the obstacle more broadly do I have to co over it or can I kind of scoot around it or can I just ignore it and and what is going to work best and then and then you were able to and this is what I'd like to hear more about if you can how did you gain the breadth of of view to then understand that in the end

[29:13] having that you know that that CPA actually wasn't really going to help you you know meeting your professional objectives right somehow you figured that out was it through you know being involved with public accounting and and what you had to do there or or you know how did you how did you f figure out enough about you know the larger accounting business to realize in the end I don't really need I don't need this to do to be the the professional I want to be so I've always been an accountant

[29:48] like out of college the internships that I've had they've all most of them have been in some accounting or Finance related role role so I've been in the industry since like my high school years literally so I have over 10 years even more of experience of being exposed to Corporate America just working on different um functions of a finance team and that has given me the information I need to see what the people on my team do and what their

[30:25] certifications are and what their tasks are what their responsibilities are as well and do do I want to be doing that do I want to essentially move up in the ranks in that direction and it just became very clear that what I wanted was a life of Entrepreneurship I wanted Financial Independence location Independence and Independence of time so that those are the things that are guiding me at this point in my life I just became very clear on the values

[31:01] that I was going to use to guide myself and it it became less about the Obstacle of not having a CPA right because if you are like good at doing research which I am I'm really good at finding out the answer to something I'm super resourceful and I will I'll figure it out I will and and that's all you need if you can pick something up and learn it then that's all you need and also being very observant of the people around me and all the the different

[31:38] roles that I've had in my my own career it's been really important to see like what is this person doing with their CPA they work so hard to be here in this part of their career and and I just I didn't I didn't want it for myself so it just became very clear to me that that there were other ways so it sounds and please correct me if I'm wrong it it sounds like you just kept yourself very open to learning from

[32:13] from other people from other experiences or from experiences that you had and you you kind of absorbed all of that and then filtered it through you know who is Von Marie right um and and and in the end you were able to come up with kind of a a synthesis that that really um that that really allowed you to express who you were and and and I I think most people don't associate that with you know being an accountant right an accountant wears a gray flannel suit

[32:49] you know right and and and um um you know all these sort of you know um um stereotypes that we have right um you know you had a very strong sense or you or well did you have a very strong sense of who you were always or is that something you've developed over your professional career how how did that come into into into being yeah so it definitely took a lot of years of

[33:24] therapy and also notic when I hated a certain experience that I was having and feeling very helpless about it so that made me very sad and so I was looking for I did do like group therapy I did um work like I didn't work there but I did volunteer as a coach eventually in the landmark programs and I spent I think maybe a year and a half doing their programs and I just learned a lot about myself and really creating

[34:00] anything out of literally nothing just an idea and and how to communicate that and and how to get people on board how to get the things that you needed to meet the goals that you wanted to meet right like and I also became very clear that I don't need to be everything to everyone and so that just helped really get myself clear allowed myself to be become very clear about how I wanted to do the work that I wanted to do and then when you know how you want to do the work that you want to do you can start

[34:36] to kind of piece together the different areas of the things that you need like I needed a flexible work environment what does that look like I needed some kind of uh stable income I also wanted to still be in touch with my clients like I like that was the thing that I did literally the best and in the audit world if your clients hate you I don't I don't know how good of a job you're doing like at the end of the day you you do want to keep your like the accounting field I feel is very small everybody knows each other and you can come across someone

[35:12] that you worked with back in the day very easily like I've been connected with people here referred to for networking um in other states and then it turns out they worked at the firm that was like down the street from me when and I was also there at the same time so the accounting industry is super small and I'm just very clear that like we want to leave our clients with a good experience at the same time even though we have regulatory requirements to uphold and that's super important but at the end of the day you know it like that was important for me just maybe it's a

[35:48] cultural thing um maybe it's my Dominican uh culture coming out that I just you know want to have comaraderie uh when I'm doing the work and and have fun um but my clients did love me like my clients did like that was the the feedback I always got they wanted me to come back for the next year or something like that and that's how you know you're doing a good job I that's what I use to measure it so nowadays I keep about the same metrics in terms of knowing like are my clients happy like is there

[36:23] anything I can add on or or help them with like is more about the client service these days and I enjoy it very much so so this this is a a good segue point so um you're a woman whose Heritage is from um the Dominican Republic and you mentioned earlier that in you didn't see other you know women like you you know as you were going through your process and yet it sounds like and again please correct me if I'm wrong that nonetheless you were able to

[36:58] learn from other people other accountants other your fellow students so how did you bridge or did you truly feel there was a a a a gap there that you had to Bridge and if so how did you bridge that that that um should I don't know call it an identity Gap I guess I'm not sure exactly what to call it yeah I think it I think I would call it an identity Gap or I guess yeah it is an ident because I am not seeing people like myself but at the same time I feel

[37:35] like kindness goes a long way right and and CT being courteous so things like that and and also kind of being observant to the the things that they like when I when I was spending a lot of time at the clients like I was seeing them get their coffees I would see what they would wear what they the things that they liked or if I overheard a conversation somewhere I'm like oh that person is into this kind of music or so things like that picking up on an information like that allowed me to connect with people more I guess I was

[38:10] just seeking the connection um subliminally by being observant and that allowed me to build better relationships and sometimes we'd go out of our way and grab donuts for everyone at the office at the client and that made such a difference I think we got emails from the client and and I remember that I was put on this client and the the they had told someone had told me that they're like oh those that client hates us as Auditors and I'm like

[38:47] what they they put me on a client where they hate the Auditors and I'm going to be on the team and it's just me and my and my senior how like I just just it was intimidating to walk into an environment like that so automatically I'm going in with the mentality that I almost have to win these people over and I cannot like repeat and I don't know the previous team I don't know who was on the team before I have to go in and I I have to make like make sure that this year audit goes through goes by smoothly and that

[39:23] we you know create connection with the client that leaves happy to work with us again and by the end of that that job we had emails from partners with the being hoarded from the client that they they loved us that they were happy with with having us in the office and I just I I felt good about that I felt really good and I think that was one of the years I did my best work um in in that part of my career so I learned a lot I was able to custom imiz like some some ways of of doing the work

[39:59] that I was doing I I wasn't just repeating last year's work which is common in AIT space um I was just finding ways of being more efficient or different ways to think about the the the grouping of information and how we were going to analyze it on a high level so that we could write our reports um so I spent time thinking about that I I just it was just cool and then I realized I'm like okay there's some entrepreneurial Spirit here maybe I don't have to uh I don't have to stick to the Dy uh corporate Vibes I can make

[40:38] something of my own have you um have you always sort of naturally been a relationship Creator if you know to sort of coin a phrase um because it sounds like you know the the through thread in everything you've talked about today is your desire to create connection to create relationships um for the mutual benefit right it was never it was never just for your own benefit although it certainly

[41:13] did benefit you but but for um other people's benefit as well so where did that ability come from to be able to you know be the kind of person who connects with with people and kind of you know draws them out perhaps or or whatever you know whatever you know way you had of of developing those relationships so I think I was a pretty reserved uh kid myself I I would say I was um I I wouldn't say I was the weird

[41:48] kid maybe I was the quiet the the smart kid the kid that just the goody to shoes but wasn't flashy like I didn't have all the cool stuff right like I was the nerd and that that experiencing like being a nerd and and not and having like the same friends all the time and and not really opening up your horizons I realized that I guess it comes down to realizing that your your immediate Network like that's as good as you're going to be in your

[42:23] life like that that environment that like that you you're you're limiting yourself if you are only ex having those same experiences so when I realized that I it made me want to grow it made me want to grow when it came to like I didn't just want to be book smart and I noticed that people that were successful were not only smart they were also good with people and that is super important to me so then that's when I realize I'm like I don't want the same old friends I

[42:58] want to be able to have friends that maybe I travel with or friends that do business with me or friends that um teach me something new like someone is using AI for for certain phone calls and and what what are the results and I want I want to know if I don't have to learn it the hard way I want to learn it from someone I like and someone that will reach out and I enjoy I enjoy it so much that that I just kept it going I just it didn't pay me to to be reserved and keep the same Circle friends and talk to the

[43:33] same people about the same things it didn't pay me to do that so then I guess yeah that's where I ended up here I mean it it it's it's it's so fascinating this is one of the reasons why I love talking to you is I mean I went through a very similar metamorphis when when when I was in school was The Quiet One I mean you know when I finally cut School in high school you know I it was for one day and I was at the that point I was

[44:09] able to sign my own notes because I was living with two friends and and I signed the note you know please I I wrote the note to the senior secretary please excuse Kevin for having missed class Kevin had a doctor's appointment right like for the entire day of class you know sign Kevin right and I handed the senior secretary Mrs Silva and she looks at and she goes oh thank God she gave me an excused absence just because she was so glad I finally did something that I shouldn't you know but it was kind of eye opening for me right that sometimes it's better to

[44:45] ask for forgiveness than permission you know right um but but I I I really think you've hit on such a tremendously important idea here that if if we want to grow we have to open ourselves up to to other people who have had different experiences than we did um and and you know be willing to learn from their experiences and um and and indeed it does give us a step up right instead of having to go through the hardship ourselves listen to somebody else who went through it and go okay well then maybe I don't have to make that mistake

[45:21] right right so so so you're you know you spent a few years in uh I'm gonna I'm gonna get on with your story because we're going to run out of time um oh yes yes you were so you you did several years in public accounting um had a had a you know by by any measure you know great success there I mean to turn a client around from I don't want these people back in my office to bring her back next year every year right that's that's tremendous success no matter what business you're

[45:56] in so how did you go then from traditional you know sort of public accounting role to what you're doing now what was what was that process like so I always when when I do begin an Endeavor so anything in my career any projects I take on I I do think about the end result and I was pretty strategic going into public accounting that I wanted to see as much as I could in the time that I was there like I almost didn't care too much about being

[46:32] promoted more so then I wanted to learn the different Industries and see where I wanted to work right because it kind of determines like the industry that you do like how do you prove yourself as an accountant if you don't have the background or the expertise for the particular industry you're trying to go work in and I just I was like oh let me let me see if I switch departments let me learn a different industry like I've always liked Investments I've always liked Finance always always um so I said

[47:09] okay let me switch out of this commercial insurance let me go into insurance and banking let me see what that is like and I loved I loved it I was like okay it's pretty standardized there's definitely more regulation but I I just thought it was more fun like I I love seeing the ins and outs it it feels like I I'm peeking into um uh like the factory of of money a little bit when I get to see uh like how Banks work and what they invest in and why they invest in them and what

[47:44] metrics they use to decide if it's a good investment or not um all of those things were was were really interesting to me so then I said okay I probably do want to work in banking I probably do want to guide myself and lean on that I I feel like after doing audit work in that space I said okay I could probably work in something like this I would see how my my clients would come into work at what time they would come into work so I was just very observant about the quality of life that my clients were

[48:19] living I'm like H these people look like they're struggling I'm good I'm just GNA go I'm gonna go to where I can enjoy my life the most and banking was it for me I I just I loved it I loved it and so I was able to find the small team of uh I guess a smaller like family office style Bank um in Midtown and I'm still friends with most of the people I worked with while I was there and it's been like

[48:55] more more than three years since I worked there and I still love them all the same they still you know text me for the holidays and for the birthdays and likewise like I just made such good friends working there so I love let me just interrupt if you don't mind for moment when you talk about a bank are you talking about an investment bank or a commercial bank so they had an investment arm okay and then they had the commercial arm oh they had both oh okay yeah it was um I think it's a like a bank holding company I think they

[49:31] transitioned out I forget the name of the like the proper accounting term for what they switched into um in terms of like financial reporting um status but um yeah they did have all sorts of Investments and then they did own a bank um oh okay in another state so yeah I was part of the the Corp corate um corporate accounting team that did like the consolidations and things like that for for the that bank so you were kind of In-House

[50:07] accounting uh support if you will for for this you said it was kind of like a family office it was it was it was a family that owned a group of Investments including a Commercial Bank and Goa okay um and you said you were there until about three years ago was it well yeah I think the pandemic marked the the time that I spent up until the the beginning of the pandemic I was there um and I really was able to just learn the different like areas of an accounting team and how important they

[50:43] were and how things were very streamlined and I loved the manager that I had while I was there and I loved the interns that I had like it was just a really great experience I and and it was publicly traded too so yeah so I was on that team um helping with the financial reporting as well and like the audit support and just preparing the monthly clo for the different um entities that they owned and so I just yeah I learn I guess

[51:20] that's where I learned um I I think that's where it helps me in my work now to deal with the trust situation when uh a family might own multiple entities or businesses and I guess I get to put my consolidation um hat on when it comes to those things and kind of think in structures um and how things need to be reported for the different respective entities so yeah that's where I learned that and so then after that you went out

[51:56] on your own you started your own practice your own accounting I spent about six mons at a on a team uh cyber security Insurance accounting team oh and it completely remote I guess that that was my my try at being location independent like essentially like I could work from anywhere and that was really that was a really great experience like I learned a lot about high volume dealing with high volumes of transactions and and the importance of just having the the systems that you're

[52:33] dealing with in accounting work the first time right because if you have things feeding through a system that has misinformation or calculations that are off it throws off your final reports and so if it's wrong from at the end you have to go back and comb through the thousands of transactions to correct that one that one number or something like that and I was like okay there's definitely room for efficiency and in

[53:10] other areas of business and I did leave my my place of work at the time and I did start my business um I guess I became a contractor helping out my mentor in Brazil for a few months and yeah then I started my my business and what has the transition to from um essentially employee to business owner what has that been like it has been so fun the scariest part is probably the the cash flow um

[53:46] like keeping consistent cash flow like it can be up one month or low another month and so that might be the crazy iest part but I have had the best time of my life in this role and like working with my clients like I just have so much fun and freedom that I I could not I just don't see myself going back to a traditional role um and the things that I'm able to learn the things I'm able to get certified and I can customize that

[54:21] as well and really live in the business so what that looks like means traveling for for business going to conferences meeting really great people who are values aligned and just learning constantly learning constantly having fun you know going for coffees and and business lunches and business dinners and making a difference in other people's businesses as well because that's it's like twofold I I have essentially the same issues that my clients have like I had to hire my own

[54:56] accounting team myself and when I got to that point it's like the the shoe maker without shoes I I I couldn't believe I'm like no I'm the accountant I need to do my own accounting absolutely not like I don't I just don't have the the bandwidth to do my own accounting and and be accountable to do it every single month as it should be done so I'm like okay look look at that we've come full circle

[55:33] so what do you what do you see as um your your top challenge as as a as a business owner and how are you how are you dealing with it you we're heading toward the end of the calendar year so I imagine you know thoughts of you know 20 I know for me I started thinking oh my gosh you know December start starts in a few days I've really got to be thinking what are my plans for you know 2024 so I'm curious to hear you know your thoughts on that for your business my thoughts um definitely pain the IRS I was crying the a few weeks ago

[56:12] Kevin literally in tears I I was like I need to get out of the house because I can't believe this is how much I oh I did an estimate and I calc I have like an Excel sheet where I calculate my taxes and I'm like how did I let this just be after I hired the accounting team I was able to make uh like very clear I was able to see my financial position very clearly and it was so clear I just copied and pasted the number from the profit and loss statement into my Excel and it just gives me my tax situation

[56:48] and I said oh my God I'm I've underpaid by like what I feel is like 5,000 but I haven't there's some adjustments that need to be made and I I literally was crying I was crying like I can't believe it now I need to go figure out how to make more money so I could pay this these bills and I was in shambles and I tell you the good thing is I think that's my biggest issue is is just getting the the estimates right right like getting to a place where I'm not scrambling um and it

[57:26] was only after the accounting team so I now I understand the difference that I make for my clients because I needed my own version of of that um help right so it is one of the irones of business you mentioned the you know estate part estate and Trust part of your practice a lot of estate attorneys like they don't have their own trust they're so busy doing it for their clients right they don't have it themselves they die without a will or whatever God forbid oh my it's like professionals we like how many nurses smoke

[58:02] right we seem to take you we're so focused on taking care of our clients we forget that on some level we we need to be our own client and and make sure that you know we're we're taken care of as well yeah like when they like on the airplane they tell you to put your mask on first and then put the mask on whoever else needs it it's like well I didn't do that I almost I almost died my friend that's one of my friends Michael and my you know running jokes is put your mask on first you know because

[58:40] otherwise nothing else really matters you know you're you're not there to help anybody else right I used to tell that to my Sailors and Marines when I was a chaplain in the Navy they'd be all freaked out about you know their family's back home or whatever i' say well you know you're you're in trouble with your job here how is that going to help out your you know family back home [Laughter] um oh gosh well we have just zoomed through this hour together um and there's there's there's much more we can talk about so you know I'm I'm G have to

[59:15] have you back that's all I can tell you there's there's there's you know much more to unpack here but I I I I I feel like I some I forget to to recap some of the things my guests have said But but so much of what you said I think is is so critical to professional success the idea that we need to really examine what is it we want to do where can where can we use our strengths um to to the best Advantage not only for ourselves but you know for

[59:51] the people that that were were serving our clients or the you know the company we're working for whatever that's critical the focus on on people and developing people's skills developing you know the catch word these days is emotional intelligence being you know really connecting with people I I think that's always been a part of business it's just never quite gotten through in the way that um it it it is today and and I think you are um iconic I I I don't mean this to sound condescending but you know

[60:26] you're you're quite a bit younger than I am um we hear a lot about um you know younger people focused on quality of life issues not just you know making a tremendous amount of money and I think you know you are your professional journey is is an iconic example of that that you've been able to build a career path for yourself where you can really enjoy your work enjoy the people that you work with that you work for you probably don't really

[61:01] work for anybody you work you even work with your clients right um and I think that's so important because so there was an article in the Wall Street Journal I think it was yesterday about how many people are experiencing you know burnout at work higher than it's ever been before and how do we avoid that and you can have all the perks you want at the office I think but that that doesn't avoid burnout I think it's it's the kind of um intentionality that you've brought to the development of your career um that

[61:36] that has allowed you to flourish um just despite really you know challenges undeniable challenges that you had um you know in in getting yourself from where you started out with to where you are now so it's it's really it's really quite inspiring and and I I I I hope people will you know take that message and and really internal take your message and internalize it um for for their own good because it's you know you you it was there you decided it it was it was all available to me if I was

[62:11] willing to reach out and you know kind of take a little bit of risk here and there kind of put myself in a uncomfortable position and and and make it happen so um before I sign off I just want any sort of you know final thoughts that you want to convey uh final thoughts I guess definitely if you if you have an inkling for something and your gut is telling you that maybe it's not the experience you you're you want to be having maybe there's some communication that needs to happen with someone else or you have to

[62:48] be honest with yourself but you know definitely share what that request looks like and share and and find find your community find your people that are going to get you to the next level and and obviously find mentors along the way it's okay to to say hey I really like what you're doing and and just be enthusiastic I find that that gets you very far as well and um and then again I I'll offer myself I'm happy to answer any questions if anyone wanted to follow

[63:23] up this interview um I am on Instagram I am on LinkedIn as well and I do put out a lot of educational materials for accounting and like how to manage your own business um so my my handle is Von is Von Marie Breakaway ba so yeah find me and I'm happy to chat thank you so much and I will put um I'll put in the show notes um both your LinkedIn profile link and your um Instagram feed I I I see it every

[63:59] morning and it's it's great I mean there really you know just it's a great way to start out the morning with because it's all very useful very positive um and and and to see you know your your bright face every morning is is is really a lovely thing so so Von Marie thank you so much for joining me again and um I I I I know we'll in touch and um and if I can have you hang on after we sign off like we did last time um to kind of do a wrap up for two of those but um I want to thank all of you for for joining us and and

[64:36] tuning in um it this is this is kind this is our last show for this week um and so uh we'll be back again next week uh at 10: am Monday for trusts and Estates weekly 10:00 a.m. Tuesday for uh business lessons from from the military th those are all both uh Pacific Time Of course and then 7 days from today 12:30 p.m. Pacific time will be the next edition of um uh people making money and my guest I think I have a guest next week again let me make double sure

[65:12] before I before I I make a mistake here here we go and oh in fact it was somebody that you introduced me to Aaron Holtzman is my guest next week oh Aon really really great guy so so this is gonna kind of be a different it's we're gonna have kind of accountants back to back here Aaron took a a somewhat different path than you took um but I think it it'll make a nice Counterpoint to the discussion we had

[65:47] today so um so do tune in um next week um for to on people making money to to meet Aaron Holt Holtzman from um Austin Texas um and actually on Monday at 10: am my guest is gonna be um Roy Gia who it must be accountant time on my shows so he's he's an accountant as well he specializes um in trusts large trusts and Estates um he he's the director of the trusts and Estates practice here in

[66:22] Southern California for um armanino I believe is is is the firm one of the uh one of the top 10 accounting firms here in Los Angeles so so he's gonna sort of take us into the big focus and um you know on on on this topic on trust and Estates weekly um so I I invite you to join me with uh with Roy on on Monday so again thanks so much for joining me looking forward to seeing you next week wishing you a great rest of the week and a relaxing weekend no holidays this

[66:57] weekend but uh you know we got to get set for the December holiday season so um thanks again and and signing off as as as I always do Marie you are my bell so thanks so much folks all the best