The WAY to WOW Shows
The Cash Flow Pitfall
June 3, 2026
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[0:01] And where [music] are you going? What do you want? Hello and welcome to People Making Money. I'm your host Kevin Bemmel, and I'm here every Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about job hunting and being an employee, starting and running a business, and building wealth. So, the whole financial side of our lives. And for this year for this season, I've been doing a a repertoire

[0:36] of those three subjects. So, today I'm going to be talking about a topic related to running a business, and that is the cash flow pitfall. So, if you have never run a business, but you know, you have finances, so you're aware of the fact that cash flow can get strained at times. If you have run a business, you may have encountered this problem. So, there is there there is a difference between a business that is profitable and one

[1:13] that is comfortable from a cash flow standpoint. So, and that's regardless of whether you you do cash or accrual accounting. Although, accrual accounting can can more easily obscure the situation where cash flow is in bad shape even though a business looks particularly profitable. So, just real quickly to give a a definition of those two terms. So, cash-based accounting

[1:48] is an a system whereby a transaction is not recognized until the cash comes in or goes out. So, income is not recognized until you actually receive a check and expenses are not incurred until you actually disperse that expense. Okay, so so for example, uh if you like I do, I charge most of my expenses to a credit card and then I pay that bill off every month, so I'm not paying any interest, but the recognition of that expense from my

[2:25] perspective doesn't happen until I pay the credit card bill because that is the point at which the money leaves my business's checking account. Now, in an accrual system, so income is recognized when it's earned, but that often times is different and earlier than when the payment is actually received. So, to give you an example from my business, generally speaking, my fees are due

[3:00] on the 30th I'm sorry, on the last day of the month, the 30th or 31st of the month. So, uh you know, as of the first of the following month in an accrual system, that payment that's owed to me shows up as income even though I may not receive it for another couple of weeks. Okay? Likewise, an expense, rent is due on the first day of the month, but I may not pay it until the fifth day of the month. It doesn't matter. In an accrual

[3:37] system, rent is going to post as an expense as of the first day of the month. Okay? Now, why is there a difference between the two? Well, from a cash flow standpoint, cash accounting is makes it easier to track cash flow because your books in terms of income and expenses are reflecting your cash position at any moment in time. However, that doesn't necessarily show the true profit picture for your business. So,

[4:13] if you've done work that entitles you to, let's say, uh $50,000 of income, but so far you've only collected 25,000 of that, and then then your income is in a in essence being underreported by 50%. So, by booking income when it's earned, um [snorts] you're showing a truer picture of your income. Now, by um not booking expenses until they're paid, a business looks artificially

[4:50] profitable because let's say for whatever reason it doesn't make its rent payment for a particular month. It skips a month paying rent. That expense doesn't go away. It's still owed to the landlord. It just hasn't been incurred. And so the business may look profitable from a cash flow standpoint, but it's not because it owes this money. So, accrual accounting more accurately paints the picture of the profitability of a business. Okay, that that's I I it's a little bit simplified, but

[5:25] but hopefully you're getting the gist of how this works. Uh [snorts] now, if you And most small businesses, by the way, they do use cash accounting because there's no reason to go through uh the, you know, the more complex bookkeeping of an accrual system. Okay, I know certainly in my business I I I do my business on a cash accounting basis. Having said that, um when I close my books at the end of each month, if if I'm owed money that I haven't collected, I show that as an account receivable.

[6:00] Just so I get a sense of uh you know, what what kind of what kind of money am I owed that could improve my profitability picture. By the same token, if if there are expenses that I that that for whatever reason I skipped that month, which I I typically don't do, I will show that as an account payable, okay? And And so, I do a little bit of a hybrid of the two in order to make sure that I'm seeing as as true a picture of my business. But, my main

[6:37] focus is cash flow because if I can't pay my bills and pay myself, uh you know, I'm I'm out of business. And that's true for most most especially small companies. But, this this issue affects large companies as well. It's just the larger ones are more likely to have, you know, accounting and bookkeeping personnel within the company who are tracking these things on a daily basis. So, a business can show a profit and in reality be running out of cash. So,

[7:13] especially if you're in the type of business where revenue lags you know, the the work or the the work that's been done or the products that have been sold. So, some businesses have payment terms of things like net 15 days or net 30 days, meaning that you can get the product today, but you're you don't have to pay for it for 15 or 30 days. Um and in other cases, like like lawyers are plagued by this. If I was at a uh conference for the last couple of days, there were a lot of lawyers there.

[7:48] We were talking about this issue of how often uh clients don't pay their legal bills. So, lawyers can have uh invoices outstanding for, you know, 30, 60, 90 days or more. And it it really wreaks havoc with cash flow uh because you know, as I was saying a moment ago, hey, just because your clients haven't paid you doesn't mean your landlord doesn't want to get paid, right? Uh along with all the other uh expenses that you have. So, accounting profits often times are

[8:24] hiding uh a a problem with collections in that your collections are lagging. Um and and another another reason why cash flow constraints comes up is businesses are growing very very fast, and so they're spending a lot of money uh you know, sustaining that growth. Um but at the same and and and maybe sales are are growing as well, um but the revenue isn't coming in um at the same point at the same pace, I should say, that money is going out to cover the expenses of growth. So, it's

[9:00] not unusual for owners to be saying, "Hey, I've got a profitable business." And then, you know, the following month they realize they're in a major liquidity crisis uh from which they can't recover, and another month later the business fails. So, to be to be smart in business, you know, you have to watch cash flow like a hawk, as they say. So, uh you know, as as I when I was mentioning uh law firms, uh to have accounts receivable, which is which means money that one is owed, it

[9:36] can really become a silent killer to the business because as as that mounts, it it it it's showing you two things. One is your clients are not paying you, but two, that you're doing a lot of work for people who are not being diligent about making sure that you get paid. And and you know, as opposed to potentially doing work for clients who are good about paying you in a timely way, right? And one of the problems is if it it in

[10:12] some ways the more money that a client owes you, the the the harder it is to extract yourself from that situation. Because now they owe you so much money, if you fire that client, they may decide, "Hey, I'm fine. I'm I won't pay you at all." And now, you know, you you've got a you know, client owes you, you know, 10, 20, 30, 50, 100,000 dollars, right? And and but you know, you've cut them off because it doesn't make sense for you to keep going deeper and deeper, uh you know, into this client, but now you've got a fight on your hands trying

[10:47] to collect the money. Now, having said that, uh it may be that client just doesn't have the money and that's part of why they had to hire a lawyer is maybe they're owed money, but you know, we need to know that going in. So, I'm working on a matter right now, and I needed to have legal representation as the trustee of a trust, but I knew going in the trust had essentially zero cash on hand. And so, when I spoke to the lawyer that I want with whom I wanted to work, I said to

[11:23] him, I said, "You know, you need to know going into this that the trust has essentially no cash right now. Obviously, part of my job is to remedy that situation, but I don't know that I'm going to be able to pay your legal bills in the short run. And I'd say if that means that um you know, you you don't want to take this matter, I I certainly understand that. Um you know, no no, you know, no downside if you say that doesn't work. Uh but but I do want you to know that going in. You know, and to his credit, he said, "No, you know

[11:58] what? The opportunity to work on this and work with you, Kevin, uh you know, I'll I'll explain it to my, you know, supervisor, my part my partners, etc. Could because it this is this sounds like a, you know, an interesting um matter on on which to work." And and you know, in in the in the event it took a few months to sort of get things straightened out, but you know, he I I was just I'm reconciling bank accounts before I started the show. Uh you know, they I had sent them a payment and they they had gotten the check and they cashed it, right? So, so that but that's good, but uh you know,

[12:34] when when accounts receivables start building up, we you know, we have to be diligent about not letting them get to a dangerous level to the point where now we have major collection issues. Um and in particular, large customers will often play this game. So, I know someone who is in the food business and he would he was this is this is the the business is is is gone now. This is going back quite a number of years now. Uh but he was very

[13:10] excited to get a contract from Walmart. Walmart, I think it's the biggest retailer in the country. Certainly, it's one of the biggest. And and it meant a tremendous amount of revenue uh to his company. The problem was in order to supply the products, it was baked goods. The uh he had to incur a lot of expenses for expansion, for buying raw materials, et cetera. And so he he did this big huge expansion, spent a lot of money gearing

[13:47] up to be able to to supply these you know these food products to Walmart, but Walmart slow paid him. Okay? And evidently Walmart is somewhat notorious for doing so. And what happened was he found himself in a very difficult cash flow bind. So this is the the the sort of when when growth becomes almost a negative, right? And and and in the end this it it it really was the downfall of his company because uh on the one hand he couldn't supply uh

[14:24] well he couldn't continue to supply Walmart and they kept withholding payment. So eventually he had to say, "Hey, I can't do business with you anymore." Uh but then Walmart refused to pay him. He had to go to court, but in the meantime essentially the business failed. So uh you know one major client that's late paying can so damage the health of your company because they they you know crush you, crush your cash flow, you know, you just you just can't survive. So if you have weak invoicing systems, you have poor collection discipline, all of

[15:01] those things contribute can can contribute to a cash flow crisis. As well we shouldn't confuse having signed a contract with have you know with with getting payment on that contract, right? Signing the contract is the beginning, right? This contract still has to be fulfilled and payment has to be received. Now, if you can get some upfront payment on a contract, obviously, that's desirable, but that can be different I'm sorry, that can be difficult if you're, you know, new in business, you're trying to

[15:37] get started, you're trying to build a name for yourself. So, sometimes clients will not pay in advance because they're concerned you know, you're concerned about not getting paid, they're concerned about not getting the value for their money. And so, how that gets worked out should be looked at. I I know for myself, one of the things I I I've striven for is to be in a business where, in essence, I can control the payments to myself. So, as a as an independent trustee, I'm controlling the, you know, the

[16:13] finances of the trust, and so, as long as there's adequate money for me to get paid, I can get paid. It's all it's just up to me to make sure that the payment gets made, right? This same is true when I had my real estate company, I was collecting the rents, I was mak- paying the expenses, including myself. And so, that made collections a lot easier. Now, the other part of my business, which is as a probate administrator, the court controls my payment. Now, but in a way, that's better uh than than, you know, a private party

[16:49] because I'm you know, as a probate administrator, I'm entitled by law to certain fees, and and and the size of those fees are set by law, and I know that the you know, I can be reasonably certain the court is going to order payment of those fees at the appropriate time. So, what I've got to do is just manage my cash flow to make sure that, you know, I'm not spending money that the court hasn't, uh you know, awarded me for a particular matter, right? Uh but that that is part of the cash flow management of my business.

[17:25] So, when I get a new probate, I know it's going to be at least a year before I can a petition to close that probate and get paid. And so, I know I'm going to be doing a lot of work, but I won't get be I won't be paid until the end. Now, I can reimburse for expenses actually incurred, which is good cuz otherwise, you know, I'm carrying expenses, but as far as payment for my time, that has to happen at the end. And so, uh I need to be careful in how I perceive, you know, my my cash flow in that regard. Okay, next.

[18:02] Uh I I talked about this a little bit already. So, inventory and ex- expansion inventory that that that that um allows you to expand your business, this can drain a company of cash flow. So, as a company grows, you know, you need to have, again, the raw materials for inventory, but you may also need to hire additional staff, you may need to expand your facility, and typically this often happens, especially if you're selling products. This happens before the cash

[18:39] is paid for whatever the product is, right? So, uh you know, there are uh lenders out there called factors, where if you have a bonafide uh um purchase uh shoot, not purchase agreement, uh purchase order uh for products, they will finance that purchase order to to give you some cash that you can use to pay for the the fulfillment of that order. But, the interest rates on that money can be pretty high, and it's not

[19:14] going to be 100% of the purchase order. Which is which may be okay. If you can if you can factor the purchase order, get enough cash out of it that you can buy the raw materials or do what you know, cover the cost of inventory and expansion uh without going into a cash flow bind, that may be fine. And then once you deliver the order, if you get paid on delivery, so now you're going to get full payment, which means you're going to get your profit, you pay the interest on the factoring out of the profit, and the rest is, you know, the

[19:49] the actual profit, the the net profit to your business. So, there are ways to manage uh expanding inventory and and plant and personnel uh so that it doesn't unduly uh bind or uh impinge on your cash flow, but that needs to be planned for as well. So, if the margin on a particular order is so small that the interest cost of factoring a purchase order would eat up all of that margin, well, I mean, is there really any benefit to fulfilling

[20:25] that order? I mean, there may be, by the way. It may give you the opportunity to get your foot in the door with a new customer. And so, as long as the um money you get from a particular order covers your costs and you're not losing money, maybe it's okay to do a couple that way. Again, to sort of get your foot in the door, and then hopefully you can expand that business. And if you've already expanded your capacity based on prior orders, now you don't have to factor future purchase orders, and so it works out okay. But, you know, if if if if you're not sure

[21:00] that this is going to lead to sustained new business, is there any benefit to expanding to do a one-time fulfillment of of a purchase order, um and then all of a sudden you could be left with excess capacity, greater ongoing expenses, um without the revenue to support those expenses. So, that can be very problematic. Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk some more. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties

[21:37] specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We [snorts] handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step. Magnum Properties, Inc., turning property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396 or visit magnumprops.com.

[22:12] Okay, so the other other issues dealing with expanding inventory and plant and equipment. So, if you're expanding inventory and maybe you're doing it kind of on speculation in in anticipation perhaps of a marketing initiative, uh you know, generating additional business. Now, what's happened is you've tied up your cash in inventory and the money can't be used elsewhere. That too can create a a cash flow crunch, right? So, this is why over the last, I'd say, maybe 20 years

[22:50] or so, businesses have invested heavily in sort of just-in-time supply chains. So, that way they don't have a lot of inventory on hand, so they don't have a lot of cash tied up in inventory unsold inventory, and that helps their cash flow position. Now, the problem with that is, as we saw during the COVID period, when a company, or if a company gets a surge in demand, they may not have the inventory to be able to satisfy that demand, and so now

[23:26] they lose out on sales. Right? And and and so this is this is the conundrum. This is kind of the balancing act that businesses have with which businesses have to deal, right? How much cash do I want to tie up in inventory in anticipation of sales versus how streamlined do I want to be in order to protect my cash flow position? And that's a very very difficult question to answer. There may be seasonal changes, like for example, toy companies sell, I

[24:01] think it's, you know, 40% they do 40% of their business between um Halloween and the end of the year or something like that, right? So, again, these are all these are issues that need to be looked at very carefully, and they are risks to the business. There is no risk-free way to deal with managing cash flow. So, you know, we have to use our our our experience, our knowledge to make the best guesses, sort of, as to what we need to

[24:38] do. So, when we're opening up, you know, new new locations or launching new products, this can create a heavy heavy upfront cash demand. And so, we need to look very very carefully at and realistically at what those demands are going to be. We certainly don't want to undershoot them and then find ourselves in a cash flow crunch partway through the new product launch. You know, on the other hand, we don't want to so overestimate them that maybe we

[25:17] you know, we we shortchange marketing and now we don't have enough support for the launch of that new prod prod that new product. So, these are the the kinds of issues I've I've talked many times on this show, for example, about the expansion Krispy Kreme went through. All of these issues of cash flow are you know, brought forth in in the debacle that Krispy Kreme went through. I think it's now about 10 or so years ago, 15 years ago. Because they tried to expand too quickly, they had to invest so much money in

[25:53] uh you know, building out locations and and and scaling up supply chains, etc. And and it it it it caused a major cash flow crunch for the company. It had to retrench. Now, they're they're back on track and they're back on an expansion plan. Um but they're being much more uh disciplined about it this time, you know, to to their credit. Right? So, you know, getting into the specifics of why managing cash flow is so important.

[26:28] Let's just Let's just, you know, kind of put it out there. If when we owe rent, loan payments, taxes, payroll, right? These These are These have to be paid with cash, not with projected earnings, right? So, if we don't pay our rent, our landlord is going to evict us. If we don't pay our employees, they can't pay their expenses. They're going to have to go find another job. Right? And then we saw this with the government shutdown last year where

[27:04] people with TSA, a lot a number of them quit because they just they couldn't afford to keep working for no money, right? They had to go find a paying job so they could meet their expenses. You know, we may be able to delay making tax payments. There could be a penalty for doing that. We may need to We may skip making a loan payment. Typically, there's a penalty for that and at some point the lender will seek to foreclose, right? Now, maybe we can negotiate some kind of forbearance, but but these are stopgap measures. They're not circumstances under which a business can

[27:41] be operating month-to-month, number one. Number two, they put a lot more pressure both not just on on leadership, but on people throughout the company, whether it's your bookkeeper or if you have more of a kind of accounting department, they're very pressured because they they can be fielding calls every day, why am I not getting paid? Why am I not getting paid? That kind of thing. It makes It makes their work extraordinarily difficult.

[28:09] >> [clears throat]

[28:09] >> So, um So, [clears throat] we see we see this happening in particular where businesses are over-leveraged, meaning they've borrowed so much money, there isn't there isn't cash flow there to to make the loan payments, to service the debt, right? And and we've seen even with huge companies where they're, you know, they've borrowed billions of dollars in order to make an acquisition

[28:46] thinking that they're going to be able to significantly increase the income for the business, and yet that in And now And now the business is it can't make it can't meet its loan payments, and so you know, it collapses or it has to scale back quite a bit. If you have uh um variable rate uh interest rates on the debt, that can be even more problematic because while the loan payments may be manageable um at their current rate, if when interest rates go up,

[29:23] those uh loan payments increase, and now you've got a situation where you've got increasing uh costs in the face often times when interest rates are going up, revenue starts shrinking, and so, you know, it's it's quickly going in the wrong direction. So, all of those whether whether you're financing equipment, whether you're factoring your uh your uh your uh purchase orders, whether you're you've got debt on on real estate where your business operates, um you know, if

[29:59] especially if it's short-term debt, even if it's fixed rate, if it's short-term, the there's a risk that the interest rate will go up when you renew the debt, and so now you could find yourself into a ca in a cash flow crunch. So, owners who rely too heavily on leverage often times make the mistake of thinking they've got stability, when in fact

[30:25] >> [clears throat]

[30:25] >> the borrowing becomes an an aspect of of a destabilizing aspect of their business. So, again, am I saying never borrow money? No, clearly not. There are There are times when borrowing money is perfectly appropriate. Okay? The issue is how much, under what terms, what is the climate for the business at that time, you know, what is the plan for retiring the debt, paying it off? All of these things, right, need to be looked at carefully in order to make sure

[31:02] that the that the borrowing is not causing a cash flow crunch to the business. Now, having said that, if your business is in crisis, you know, you and and someone is willing to lend you money, you may grab it just because without it you you know for sure the business is going to fail, but at least borrowing that money may give you a lifeline, an opportunity to try and save the business. And especially if if if you wouldn't necessarily have to declare personal bankruptcy because the business operates under a separate entity, so then the the borrowing risk is not as dire to

[31:38] you as a business owner because your personal assets may be protected even though in the end the borrowing ends up not helping save the business. So again, these are the various issues to examine when you're thinking about taking on greater leverage. Okay. Finally, smart business owners, they watch their cash flow like a hawk. Even for small business owners, if you are not checking your cash flow relatively regularly, at least once a

[32:14] month, and I I can assure you I check mine more than once a month. I check mine roughly once a week. And and I'm, you know, making sure that I'm keeping track of upcoming payments, both both payments to me and payments that I have to make. I I watch my budget very, very carefully because I want to sleep at night, frankly. I don't want to be up worrying how am I going to cover, you know, my expenses. So, I keep a, you know, a healthy margin available even though I might be able to earn some

[32:49] additional interest if I, you know, put put it in a CD or something. I don't want to have to worry about that. I want to be able to meet my expenses. So, you know, that's how I handle things. Now, other people, you know, you may have a a you know, a higher sleep tolerance and so you can deal with, you know, smaller margins in your checking accounts, that sort of thing. That's a personal decision. But, the one thing you want to make sure is you have cash on hand that will sustain sustain your business. So, wh- you know, hopefully, well, if you're

[33:25] new to business, you may not know what the business cycle looks like. So, you may not know when if if there are periodic slow periods through which you need to be able to sustain payments in the face of dropping or even no revenue, right? And that is kind of the bane of a lot of small businesses is often times they go through these sort of boom and bust cycles in the sense of the the owner focuses on uh generating business, gets a bunch of business in, and then the owner turns to taking care of that business. In the meantime, the

[34:00] marketing wanes, there's no new business coming in. So, he gets all those customers taken care of, takes care of all the work for those clients, gets those payments in, but there's such a backlog of expenses, you know, all that revenue goes to paying the backlog. And so, it's a constant sort of chasing of one's tail uh without a sustained marketing effort. And so, that's why what whatever you're doing in your business, the most important thing that you you create is a consistent revenue stream because

[34:35] at least that way you can know, okay, I've got whatever it is. I've got $5,000, $10,000 a month coming in, whatever that number is, and then scale your expenses to fit the revenue that you have coming in as opposed to not having regular revenue and and not having a sense of how expenses need to fit within the overall picture of your business. So, as well, if you do have slow times, so you want to get a far enough ahead of them that you have the reserves on hand so that

[35:10] you can get through those slow times without a cash flow crunch and then move into the better times without you know, without that burden of of unpaid expenses, etc.

[35:24] >> [snorts]

[35:24] >> So, what we need to be doing is forecasting uh future inflows and outflows and to make sure that there aren't surprises. So, even if like me, you're doing cash accounting or cash bookkeeping, that doesn't mean that we're excused from looking at well, what what does the revenue picture look at look look like 3, 6, 12 months from now? What are what are what expenses do I have coming up 3, 6, 12 months from now? Okay? All of that should be examined even on a small

[36:00] business, okay? It's it's no different in that sense than your personal finances and hopefully you're doing that with your personal finances. Now, that isn't to say that your projections are going to be perfect. They're almost for sure they're not going to be. There are unexpected expenses in a business just like there there there are in in one's in you know, in our personal lives. So, but we have we still have to do the best we can. As as the the saying goes, plans are worthless, but planning is essential." Because if we're if we're always planning, then as new information comes

[36:38] in, as new problems and challenges arise, we can adjust our plans almost in real time, but certainly adapt them much more quickly. So, as part of that then, when we're negotiating with customers and vendors, we can negotiate terms that will make managing our cash flow as easy as possible, right? So, if we're considering taking on a big new client, and and that's going to mean a scaling up of of our production

[37:13] capability, or maybe, you know, bringing in more staff, whatever that is, perhaps we can schedule that contract where there's some kind of retainer paid, and and that will help defray or cover it will totally cover the cost of expanding, and then we don't have to be concerned about a future cash flow crunch. Perhaps if we do need to scale up personnel, rather than bringing on permanent new employees, maybe we look to subcontract out part of what we're doing to someone else. And so, if the project keeps going,

[37:49] great, we can keep that person subcontracted, and if the project terminates, well, then we terminate working with that subcontractor cuz we don't need that support any longer, right? And all of this, you know, all of these things are open negotiation. I will say that as a new business owner, I was always afraid to try and negotiate more favorable terms for myself. And it took some experience before I realized that most of the time, especially at the beginning of a relationship with a new customer, if

[38:24] that customer is going to be a long-term source of business, they want to work with us as much as we want to work with them to make a successful relationship. So, if you've got a potent if you've got a potential new customer and and they're showing little if any interest in working with you to make sure that your business stays stays stays sustainable, that can be a red flag that that in the end this is not someone who's going to really be a permanent benefit to your

[39:01] company, and so maybe it's better just to pass on that person. Right? Uh finally, the the key lesson here is that businesses rarely, especially small businesses, rarely fail because of lack of profits. They fail because they run out of cash. Right? And they may not even be uh bankrupt in the sense that their debts are significantly higher um than their assets. It they may have assets higher than debts, but because

[39:36] they don't have cash to sustain ongoing operations, the business can't can't make it. And so this is why uh you know, we need to guard against the cash flow pitfall and and and guard our, you know, our bank account, if you will, uh like a hawk. So, it um you know, curious to hear uh what what challenges uh you have in managing the cash flow of your business if you're a business owner. You don't have to go into the, you know,

[40:12] the the the details of it bec- if you're posting online about this, but what aspect of cash flow do you find challenging do you find it to be a challenge to handle? If you're thinking about starting a business, what concerns do you have about managing cash flow? So, maybe take a moment after watching this show and post it in on social media. If you look right down below you in the show notes, you'll see links to all of the way to wow shows social media outlets, and and I'll be

[40:47] happy to respond to your questions, comments, thoughts, even criticisms. Okay, so slate of shows. Mondays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, trusts and estates weekly. Tuesdays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, business lessons from the military. Wednesdays, like today, 10:00 a.m. Pacific time, people making money. And then every other Thursday at 5:00 p.m. is my show Jigger's Place, where we sit back, have a cocktail, and schmooze, and talk about non-finances related issues. So, a number of times for us to be together every week. I hope

[41:23] to see you again. Thank you very much for joining me today. And that just leaves me to sign off and remind you, Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage at all times, my friends.