The WAY to WOW Shows
Don’t Ignore Your Mortality
September 15, 2025
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[0:02] Who are you and where are you going? What do you want? [Music] Hello and welcome to Trust and Estates Weekly. I'm your host, Kevin Bemmel, and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to get your week started off right with some new ideas on how to be involved in estate planning and trust and estate administration. and and I

[0:38] deal, you know, primarily from the standpoint of people like myself and my guest Greg Barnesdale who are professionals involved in helping people with uh estate planning and trust and estate administration. However, um I have many viewers who are working on their own estate plans or they may be administrating an estate on their own. And so, lots of great information here. uh gives you an opportunity to talk more intelligently with your advisors andor to take care of those matters for which you're responsible in a better way. So

[1:16] today I'm very pleased to introduce my guest Greg Barnsdale. Greg is a uh funeral planner director and also he's involved with financial services related to estate planning. and he's written a book called uh Do Not Ignore Your Mortality. And so um I I met Greg a while back now and we we we had a wonderful uh conversation, long conversation, longer than we planned actually. And uh this is this is a man

[1:51] who has seen uh the the um the situations that come up uh in in in this in the in our topic from a lot of different perspectives. Um most uniquely being directly involved in funerals and so I was very anxious to have him as a guest on the show. So Greg uh welcome to Trust and Estates Weekly. Thanks for coming on the show.

[2:18] >> Oh, you're welcome, Kevin. I appreciate your interest and having me as a guest. Thank you.

[2:23] >> And and I should mention, by the way, that that Greg it once once once one more time, we're expanding uh Trust and Estates Weekly internationally. Greg hails from Canada, our our great neighbor to the north. Uh and so uh it's it's nice to to welcome uh welcome you for for that reason as well, Greg.

[2:43] >> So tell us, let's start out. I I gave just a very brief uh overview of your background, but fill that in for us if you will. Um you know, how how did you Well, this is not directly on topic, you know, I don't imagine or but it could have been the case, I suppose, that you know, growing up as a kid, you're thinking, I think what I want to be is a funeral director. I'm guessing not, right? So, how did how did you get into that that business and and and you know, tell us about being

[3:18] that and then, you know, kind of fill us in on on the rest of your background.

[3:23] >> Well, actually, Kevin, it it it was just a bit of a fluke how I somewhat fell into it. My family was not involved in the funeral industry at all, and it was a guidance counselor who actually recommended that I consider being a funeral director, and that was really the first time that I had considered it. But oddly enough, my my good uh high school friend Mike ended up working for the local funeral home in the small town where I grew up uh vacuuming and just cleaning up and so on. And when I would go and visit him uh at work and and I got to know some of the people that he had worked with and there was actually an ambulance service that worked out of

[3:58] the back of the funeral home uh which was quite prominent, popular and and common at that time. And I got to know some of the people and I ended up developing a strong interest in it. and shortly after my grandfather died and then and I got to see the the process close up.

[4:15] >> So I I'm curious if and maybe you don't know this, but what was it about you that caused the guidance counselor to say, you know, you you need to be in, you know, in the funeral directing business?

[4:28] >> Well, I I think Kevin, it was likely at least partially because I was a bit of an introvert and rather quiet. I've I've never been one to really been in the be in the limelight and and this whole role for me as being an author and sharing this whole death positive movement based on what I've experienced in both the funeral and the financial planning industry is is really out of the norm for me but I think it was because of that particular reason.

[4:54] >> Gotcha. Well, and that makes sense. And I I unfortunately I've been to quite a number of funerals over the years and it is interesting how a funeral director can both be present but not um in in any way drawing attention to himself. It it it seems like a a skill um but maybe it's also a way of being. So

[5:20] >> I agree. I I think the learnings that I had um developed years ago as a young funeral director have stayed with me throughout my life and uh and they are certainly some great life life skills overall, but I'm still licensed today here in Ontario as a funeral director with the Bereavement Authority of Ontario 40 years later.

[5:39] >> So, a a couple a couple of questions come to mind and you're the only funeral director that I've uh you know interviewed on the show. Uh um what is it like day after day dealing with people in their bererement? Um dealing with you know remains uh how does how does that affect you? How do you not become I don't know

[6:14] serially serially blue at least if not you know clinically depressed. Well, I've been asked that question a few times, Kevin, and and one of my co-workers years ago at one of the larger funeral homes that I had worked at in Toronto told me that in in her opinion, every day that she was off and not working at the funeral home, it gave her the opportunity to really enjoy life and and appreciate the life that she has. And and that's one of the things that stuck with me throughout my lifetime is that,

[6:47] >> you know, this life that we live is is really a gift. And the odds that we actually were were born apparently are I forget the figures, but it's it's it's hard to put into words how the stars lined up and and everything came to fruition for us to actually even be here. But

[7:05] >> to appreciate every day that we have is so vitally important and that business reminds you of that every day and I didn't find it depressing. M and and how how did you develop the so so this is one of I think the underappreciated skills that are necessary for people like me who who do probate and trust administration and and that is that there is an emotional or even a spiritual component to it because the reason for the administration and dealing with all the

[7:41] financial issues is that somebody has died.

[7:45] >> And so, uh, you know, to ignore that bereiement may be going on or, you know, candidly, I I have had situations where it seemed like the the uh those left behind were joyful that the person was gone, but but joyful in a in a way that wasn't completely devoid of guilt, if you will. So, what is it like to deal with people on a regular basis who who are going through a bereavement of of at least some sort?

[8:22] Well, I've I I've seen all kinds of situations, Kevin, having worked for large and small funeral homes, as well as for the provincial regulator as an examiner here in Ontario. And I've also worked as a supervisor at one of the largest mortuaries in Canada that in one way or another was dealing and still is deals with over a hundred deaths per day. And a lot of people have a hard time getting their mind around that, but it's it's absolutely the case. But to answer your question more directly, it I've I've seen those types of situations too where surviving family members are relieved that their loved one has died

[8:59] and and and as you get to know them and speak with them about what the deceased has gone through and how they they you know quite often lived a long life and and were basically at the point where you know they were almost ready to die. It's you see all kinds of things but you have to remain disattached to a point so you're not as emotionally involved and I guess that would be similar to anyone in the medical profession.

[9:27] >> Yeah, that makes sense. So uh I have to ask you this question because I think um you know people will will be curious about this uh and and especially given the trend toward these sort of you know customized funerals that that are you know becoming more popular these days. So what what is the most unusual uh service or funeral over which you presided during your your years as a funeral director? Well, one of the more you unusual things that that I recall actually as as you had mentioned uh was

[10:02] seeing a a small uh boat in a in a visitation room. The fellow who had died was an avid fisherman and and and you're absolutely right. People are are customizing the the the whole end of life experience based on what the situation calls for and what the deceased perhaps wanted. Uh but that's one of the more unusual things I've seen in a visitation room. But uh one of the more interesting things that I have seen at the time of a death was an older woman uh that my colleague and I had gone to pick up and

[10:37] the coroner was was there. The police were there as they often are and we were led to this apartment where we had brought our stretcher to pick up the deceased and and bring her uh back to the funeral home or perhaps to the hospital for an autopsy. I don't recall what the situation was in that regard, but but she had actually died standing up.

[10:58] >> I've heard of people falling asleep standing up, but that's that's pretty wild. So, so the fellow with the boat was was was he buried in the boat or

[11:06] >> No. No. The deceased was in a casket off to the side and there were lots of flowers and so on, but there was actually a boat with it with a motor on the back and some of his fishing rods and such and and and that was just part of his story.

[11:20] >> Right. So, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie so, but you know, the the main character, the lead character in the movie uh dies at one point and he he his his friends basically steal him from the funeral home to give him a Viking funeral, right? And they put him in his boat or the actually it's the the dinghy that's, you know, that his yacht carries and they sort of light it on fire and push it off. And you know I can I have you know I can imagine people requesting you know things like that. But so so I you know as as I recall after years of

[11:56] being a funeral director you then moved into um you know the the realm of of um financial services. So, what prompted you to to, you know, take that step um and and broaden your horizons? I I would think.

[12:18] >> Well, Kevin, I wanted something more lively.

[12:21] >> Just kidding. I I wanted I wanted a change. I And actually, my father had been in the financial services industry for some time and and a growing number of uh other people that I knew at the time, and I was looking for a change. So I I I kept my funeral director's license that I had as I had mentioned earlier, I still have it today, 40 years later. But I I I just wanted another challenge and and as I got working in the financial services industry, I realized that I could take that experience of being a funeral director and bring it into the role of being a financial adviser. And I did. I told all of my clients what I

[12:57] what I used to work at

[12:59] >> and and then ultimately help them with their retirement planning, their investments and and their RRSP planning, which is very similar to your 401k type of plan. And and also to help mitigate the risks in their life of what could derail a good retirement. And a premature death or a critical illness or a disability uh could certainly do that. But I I found the same sort of frustration that many people didn't want to talk about it. the same sort of frustration. Uh how I guess

[13:29] >> well in in the in the funeral industry I I saw rather quickly that the vast majority of situations and I'm sure it's still the case today although I'm not working actively in the funeral industry anymore but from what I'm hearing from colleagues and so on and reading about too

[13:46] >> the vast majority of people are just poorly prepared for that sort of event to happen in their life.

[13:52] >> Gotcha. Uhhuh. and and the the situations in that I had seen in the funeral industry where people had had these open discussions and they knew what the deceased wanted and plans had been put in place. There was a will and and all these sorts of things. Beneficiary designations were updated and and you could just you could tell rather quickly that they were much more organized.

[14:14] >> The the the situation for the surviving family members where things were organized were just so much easier on them. Right.

[14:22] >> And I the same frustration that I had found within the financial services industry when people were more interested in talking about their investments than they were about the the things that could get in the way of a good retirement like a premature death.

[14:36] >> So, so talk for let's let's dig into this a little bit more because I think this is important. uh people who have not been through this process of having a loved one die um and having to see to it that uh you know they're they're buried, there's a funeral and and this sort of transition period immediately following the death of a loved one. So what are some of the problems that arise uh especially when there hasn't been planning or when there hasn't been adequate planning? what what is somebody

[15:13] uh with what is somebody going to be faced that's going to make this you know time of grieving even more difficult because on top of it have been added all of these you know logistical or or other types of responsibilities

[15:29] >> well there are a number of things that I'm I'm I'm sure you have probably heard about and witnessed perhaps as well Kevin from uh one of the most common things is is locating the will that the most current version of the deceased will. That can that can be a wild goose chase on its own. And and quite often when we were helping families out at the time of of the initial arrangements at the funeral home, they hadn't got to the point of of actually locating the will at that time. They were just more interested in arranging the funeral so that they could tell their friends and

[16:04] relatives when the visitation started and where the funeral was going to be and such. And that made perfect sense. But the next step after that was quite often to locate that will and discuss with other family members and so on as to you know who was going to be involved in in preparing food and and all these different things notifying other people and how to do that which more and more families do online today as opposed to the traditional route of a newspaper obituary.

[16:32] >> But there's the other issue of control. If there's no will in in place and these conversations have not been proactively discussed in advance while the deceased was alive, which all too often happens, people quite often have have different ideas and what they think should be the case. And quite often when there's no planning done, they're actually setting up their families for a quite a big mess. So when you say they have different ideas about what ought to be done, you mean with do you mean with respect to uh the funeral arrangements and and so what what are some of those

[17:10] issues that you've seen end up in dispute because um either the you know the will was not identified before the the um you know before the arrangements for the services were done or or because um you know there was no plan you know left behind. Well, that it that actually covers the whole waterfront actually, Kevin, from from everything as basic as not knowing if the deceased wanted actually to be buried or or cremated. And now there are more options such as human composting and recycling. Uh but again, it's so

[17:47] vitally important that people discuss these things while minds are clear and time is plentiful with their family because the having these proactive conversations, although they're not easy, it's it's the lesser of two evils. But to answer your question more directly, there are a wide array of things that that can actually cause ill feelings and arguments and fights among family members from from investment accounts to insurance policies to to various things around the house and and people having perhaps different ideas as to who gets what. that that's why it's

[18:23] so important to have these discussions in advance and let people know what you want and and be upfront with them.

[18:30] >> Right. No, I I guess look I want to stay focused for a minute on your your previous role as a funeral director. So what what are the the issues surrounding that aspect because the way this is what I've seen in the past so you'll understand where the question is coming up from past and that is what happens with the uh postdeath arrangements visav the funeral the service whatever often times set the tone for everything else that comes afterwards. So if the funeral arrangements and the

[19:08] service and all that goes relatively smoothly, so then it seems like people are heading in a reasonably good direction and there's less of a chance that these other issues you just mentioned are going to cause conflict. On the other hand, if conflict starts immediately with things like uh I don't know choosing a casket for example, it seems like that kind of dissension continues on you know through the entire administration of the deedence estate. So, um that's why what do you what are

[19:44] sort of the key issues that someone ought to uh plan and socialize with his with his family or his you know the loved ones he's leaving behind with respect to um a a funeral or a committ or you know whatever is done that that in in your experience have have perhaps caused dissension among you know those who are um you know left behind for one of a better term.

[20:14] >> I think really what you're what you're getting at Kevin is is really the essence of why I published this book. I I I was I struggled for years to find a way that would truly impact a lot of people. Yet I was challenged with the the the whole issue of writing a book, Kevin, that I knew many people didn't even want to discuss. Yet, I knew I knew these points were so important and I took a lot of time to write this book, actually following the advice of a dragon, uh, which is the forerunner to your Shark Tank. I'm sure you've heard of Dragon's Den here in in Canada, but I I followed the teachings

[20:50] of one of the most successful non-fiction authors who helped change the face of retirement planning 25 years ago, and I'm hoping to help change the face of postretirement planning, as I call it. But the the essence of of this book really gets to the point that you had just mentioned. The very first chapter stresses the point of about communication and talking with one's family about what one really wants to do. The second chapter talks about the very basics of of having a will and why it's so vitally important. And then it gets into the very basics of estate planning and power of attorney planning and and those sorts of things. But the

[21:27] the most vitally important point is for people to realize that if they don't have a valid will in place, things can go ary very very quickly. And and and that's one of the the most important things that I that I stress within this planning as well as the fact that this is not just for older people. Death is around us all the time, but people seem to have this thought in their head that it's not going to happen to me when they hear of bad things happening. it's going to happen to someone else and and and that's just not always the case.

[21:58] >> Okay, let's take a quick sponsor break and then we'll come back and pick up on on on your book.

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[22:44] or visit magnumprops.com. So, this is Trust and Estates Weekly and I'm your host Kevin Bemel. My guest is Greg Barnesdale who uh has been a funeral director as well as uh involved in financial planning and uh he wrote a book called Don't Ignore Your Mortality. And right before the break, we um we started talking about uh Greg's book. Uh so Greg, you you you mentioned kind of in passing what what motivated you to to

[23:19] write the book. Uh climb into that a little bit more for us if you would. I mean I've written a book. It's it's a huge undertaking, lot of work. And the fact of the matter is contrary to what people think, uh very few people make any kind of substantial money these days off of writing a book. the economics of bookw writing just mitigates against it. Um, and you know, even a bestseller, which by in in the United States means the book has sold sold at least 10,000 copies, but the author is probably going to get maybe about a dollar, maybe $2

[23:55] per copy. We're talking$10 to $20,000, right? So that that's compared to the number of hours it took to write the book, you know, you're you're you're probably not even earning, you know, minimum wage. So what re what was it that compelled you uh to to write your book and and and take the kind of kind of time and make the commitment that that such an endeavor takes. The reason Kevin was really born out of frustration with what I had seen in both the funeral and the financial planning industry and and and I knew from what I

[24:31] had seen from other people going through situations that that many of them were were very sour that could have been much better just with a bit of planning. I I I wanted to create a message that I knew would would really help a lot of people. And that's really why I I created this book was to inspire people to pull out their will and read the darn thing and if they don't have one to understand the the many problems that can arise by by not having a will. And and so

[25:06] as as we've talked about so far in the show, a lot of people just they just don't want to come to terms with their own mortality, right? And and that's probably the single business single u most common reason why uh people don't create an estate plan. Um, so what what is it about your book do you think that will help people overcome the reluctance to engage in an investigation

[25:43] um of of or the process that that is you know that issue. Well, I I basically take real life experience, Kevin, from both the funeral and the financial planning industry and and just openly tell people with a bit of dry humor to make it a little more appealing because yes, it is the most unappealing topic I I I think there is out there. But I I think I have successfully done that. I have followed the teachings of a a dragon, as I said, one of the most successful non-fiction authors uh in in um in history, I believe. But I've I've

[26:19] created a message that truly is inspiring people to to be more engaged in this. And actually what I've learned over the last couple of years since publishing is that I'm stressing this message on LinkedIn and it has allowed me to recently surpass over 11,000 followers. But I'm stressing the fact that end of life planning helps reduce the stress of aging. It leaves survivors more financially and emotionally resilient, more likely to get along, and less likely to contest final wishes. It naturally results in more meaningful legacies, often helps charities because

[26:54] of the immense tax planning benefits of planned giving. It always takes pressure off the courts from otherwise needing to be involved in unorganized estates. And all these things help bolster the economy. So give us an example of of one of the uh um one of the stories that you relate in the book from your actual experience that that helps people better come to terms with with handling these issues.

[27:22] >> Well, I I don't know if I mentioned this specific story. I think I did in the book. I I need to reread my book again soon as my publishing coach suggests. But um I recall one distinct weekend working in in one of the large funeral homes in Toronto and we received a call from a from a son who was on his way from I don't know two or three hours away to come to the funeral home. His dad had just died and he said, "I have my father's most recent will. If my brother calls, don't talk to him. I have the will." And then he asked, "Has my brother contacted you?" And I and I said, "No, you're the first contact

[27:58] we've heard about this uh this particular death." And so we finished our our call and hung up and a short time later the brother called and I happened to pick up the phone and I was speaking with him and he had a very similar message. So obviously these these two brothers were not speaking to each other or if they were it was very limited. But with all the estrangement going on within families, which was all too common that we saw within many many surviving family members, that's just another flash point. It it it seems that

[28:33] it is a contributing factor to the types of situations when there is no communication and and and no plan in place as to what is to happen and who's in charge, things can go ary quickly. So, so let's let's take this case where you have conflicting instructions from, you know, two uh surviving family members. As as a funeral director, what do you do?

[29:01] >> It's it's a growing issue, Kevin. actually when when I was working actively in the in the funeral industry, we had to be very very careful and I'm sure this is still the case today that funeral directors everywhere have to be very very careful that they're taking the the advice and direction from those that that actually are are qualified to be basically in charge. So, I wouldn't be surprised if funeral homes now are actually as asking for a copy of the will indicating who the executive is and for the that executive to provide identification

[29:34] >> and and in this story that you just related, how how did you resolve that that situation where you have two people both claiming to have, you know, the genuine will, right? I mean, are are are you saying, "Well, submit both your wills and we'll have our attorney review it." And I mean, that would seem to be, you know, a pretty costly endeavor for a funeral home. How how did you end up resolving that situation?

[30:03] >> Kevin, I don't recall the specific details of how it was resolved, but it's it it's again, it's a growing issue. If there's there's an older copy of a will and perhaps a newer one naming a different executive, these things have to be sorted out and and and sorted out properly. And I would imagine many funeral homes are reluctant to really get into the the the nuances of being involved in that. Although at the same time, as I said, they have to be very very careful that they're taking the the instructions and the person signing off on that funeral services contract is the one authorized to pay for it.

[30:38] So it it and I'm not I I understand you don't um you know you don't recall the circumstance of that but is it possible that a funeral home would be forced to just tell the people look we're getting conflicting instructions we can't handle this burial because the liability for uh you know taking incorrect direction is is too high and so you'll have to go somewhere else. I mean is is is that a possibility? Well, it it's it's very possible. Yes. And and I would imagine that that funeral homes are are occasionally having to say to surviving

[31:15] family members, please go and sort this out with a with with your lawyer.

[31:20] >> Mhm.

[31:20] >> And and then come back, call us, and we'll set up another appointment to follow through. But we need to make sure that that we are following the proper uh instructions accordingly. Well, well, and so and so that brings up the issue that now because there either hasn't been proper planning or it wasn't properly socialized with the surviving family members. So now additional legal expense is being incurred by, you know, needing lawyers to sort this out. In the meantime, the burial is delayed. Everything's up in the air and all of

[31:56] that adds to the the aggravation and etc. on top of just the uh the overall situation and it and it inflames what's going on.

[32:06] >> Absolutely. And and and that's again the the whole crux of this this type of message I think Kevin is that planning one's end of life should not be done at the end of life. We should take the time when minds are clear and time is plentiful to have these these sensitive conversations that we love and care about most because we all want what is best especially for those that we love about we love

[32:34] >> and and this I I truly do think in my heart that this is one of the ultimate gifts of love.

[32:40] >> Yeah. And and it's interesting that you say that because because I agree. Uh you know, it's it's a way to show loved ones that you care about them once you're gone, right? Uh and and so it's it's kind of a final statement of the level of of care and concern that a person has for, you know, for his family. So I know for myself uh you know it because I'm in this business um you know I've I've talked to my uh members of my family who I want to be you know handling certain things and and they find it very

[33:16] uncomfortable right and I say to them well you look this is the reality is you know one day hopefully it be hopefully it'll be a long time from now um I I'm not gonna be alive anymore that you No one else has. No one has gotten out of this world alive yet that we know of with with the possible exception I suppose of Jesus if one is a Christian. But uh you know that that is just the reality and uh and and you know as what I found is as much as

[33:52] individuals are reluctant to deal with their own mortality their loved ones often times don't want to contemplate that either. And so the two become somewhat self-reinforcing. And so the the the conversations and and the planning never takes place. So what do you suggest for people who uh they do want to plan and they do want to make this expression of caring for their loved ones but they're getting push back from the loved ones themselves about dealing with this.

[34:29] what what recommend as someone who's seen this across, you know, a range of disciplines within the field. What do you recommend people do in a situation like that?

[34:40] >> In my book, I have a I have some questions that will help have help readers and listeners have a more meaningful conversation with their with their loved ones. And I have some tips as well that I I I purposely discuss about how to get over those types of reluctance from other family members because I've seen it many times too. But I've also created a a list of 30 curated questions, Kevin, that that I have available on my website, do not ignoreyou mortality.com. And under the resources tab is is what I call the probing legacy questions where

[35:16] I have 15 questions for very basic initial conversations and then another 15 questions for more advanced type of situations because I I I get it. I I I know that people quite often have a hard time with this point is just getting the momentum going. So give us an example of one of those questions if you would so people can get a sense of how these these probing questions will help them deal with uncomfortable an uncomfortable topic.

[35:45] >> Sure. Well, one of one of the questions that that I I had heard in the financial services industry in relation to life insurance was one of the ones that I had used and and it goes something along the lines of if if I died last night, who do you think is best prepared to settle my affairs?

[36:03] >> So, that that's that's one question. Another one is I've been thinking more about my life and and my legacy. Could we take some time to discuss these things? they're important to me. And you know, I think positioning these these types of sensitive topics in in those types of ways, Kevin, make it a little easier for people to engage with you. So, it it seems to me the the sort of connecting tissue between both of those questions and and and maybe this is what you're driving at is the person who

[36:40] needs to do the planning is really looking or at least positioning himself as wanting his loved ones help as opposed to, you know, saying, "Okay, here's what's going to happen. This is what you're going to do." do that kind of thing. Does that does that sound correct or how how does that sound with respect to the overall philosophy of of your book?

[37:05] >> Well, yes, it it it does. I I I think in bringing our family members into this conversation in a gentle and and caring way, showing care and respect and and and sensitivity toward them, uh is is the way to go about this as it as opposed to saying, "Well, this is what I've done and this is who's in charge and this is who's going to get what." I don't think that is the the best way to go about it. And and actually it it has me thinking about a movie that I had seen years ago with James Garner called The Ultimate Gift. And um it it it you

[37:41] know there are more and more mortality type of movies like this than ever it seems. But I I think that is the best way to go about it. Yes.

[37:50] >> And what is what is someone who needs to do this planning? What do you recommend they do if they already know that members of members of their family are at odds and so uh you know to engage in that is going to mean to wade into that conflict.

[38:13] >> Well, and and that's why Kevin many people just kick this can down the road and think I don't I'm sure the thinking generally is I I'm not ready to discuss this yet. I'm still fine. I'm still here today. I'll I'll put it off for now and get to it when I get around to it. And and by the way, I do have round to it, too, to to help people, you know, embrace this whole message and and get moving with it. But but you're right. these sorts of things that actually your comment just now had me thinking about a survey that I had seen not long ago put out by a bank here in Canada that a relatively high number of adult

[38:48] Canadians are are putting off these types of conversations because they think that that it will bring up conflict within their families. So they they just don't have the conversations.

[38:58] >> Well, and and no and and I get that, you know, for people who are looking for a reason not to do it. There's lots there's lots of ways to rationalize not doing it, but but let's take someone who does want to engage in this process. Uh and they don't have to be afraid it's going to raise conflict because conflict already exists between family members. So what what can they do to nonetheless engage in the process that they want to engage in i.e. end of life planning and

[39:33] and and you know drafting a will and all that kind of stuff while you know dealing with the issue that um that they know already exists which is maybe they've got two children who for various reasons are not speaking to each other uh and yet you know whatever decisions are made need to be socialized with both children. So what what does some what does someone do? How how would how should someone handle that situation in order to at least mi they're probably not going to solve

[40:09] the conflict especially it's been going on a long time but at least minimize the additional conflict that might arise as a result of their passing away.

[40:20] >> A growing number of people Kevin are are getting involved in leveraging family offices. Family offices tend to um help people of a higher net worth, especially business owner clients who have more at stake and and such with their situation. And I understand that not everyone can afford this sort of thing, but if they can, that can be a great solution to actually have a mediated type of meeting to bring everyone together with with a lawyer and financial advisor and perhaps an accountant to to help these types of issues get out onto the table and have

[40:56] them discussed and and appropriately planned for. But in the situations where people are working on a on a on a budget and and still have that type of u situation going on in their family that I think it is also a good idea to perhaps have their lawyer involved or perhaps their financial advisor. Maybe not to the same extent of leveraging a family office. But if if if that is not the case, perhaps bringing another friend u or close outside relative, more of a distant relative in or or perhaps a

[41:31] couple of people to help act as a moderator might be helpful.

[41:35] >> Okay, very good. Let's take another break. Probate and Trust TV, your curated source for the most useful and insightful content on estate planning and trust and probate administration. Featuring standout professionals like Bill Gross, Paul Bralet, James Cunningham, and yours truly. Whether you're a lawyer, accountant, real estate professional, or working on your own succession plan, this channel helps you quickly find the clearest, most practical content YouTube has to offer.

[42:12] Subscribe now to Probate and Trust TV. Spend more time learning, less time searching. So, my guest on Trust and Estates Weekly is Greg Greg Barnesdale, uh, former funeral director and financial advisor and author of Don't Ignore Your Mortality. And we've been talking about what what someone can do who to um get out of the mindset of avoiding end of life planning and and estate planning and and more

[42:50] particularly dealing with the kind of conflict that that might arise uh from going through that that that process. So, so Grant, I think, by the way, I think that's a great idea uh to essentially when you've got when you already have family members who are in dispute that are in dispute for nothing related to, you know, the estate planning process and such. uh to to to bring in some someone or or you know more than one person to be a mediator. uh or or you know someone like a lawyer, an accountant who um their presence may

[43:29] cause uh you know the people in dispute to pause before they start you know uh you know yelling and screaming in the kind of uh unoured behavior that that might arise if only you know close family members are there. I I I would also by the way um you know for for people who uh you know are involved in a church or a synagogue whatever. So you know you can always also consider bringing in uh your pastor or someone like that. They don't have the expertise of course necessarily in estate planning

[44:05] but to the extent that they know the people involved. um they're most uh pastors, priests, rabbis are are pretty skilled in in in mediating conflict and so they can focus on the conflict mediation and and then other people can perhaps provide the the kind of advice that's necessary to uh you know to make the decisions to discuss the decisions and and help make the decisions that need to be made. So aside from people's uh reluctance to engage in the process at all, what do

[44:42] you see as being the top three issues uh with which people should deal as as they get involved in end of life and estate planning? Well, I'm going to mention one point briefly first, Kevin, and it relates back to the topic we just spoke of, and and I think it's important for me to stress this at this time, but I'm I'm sure you're well aware of this, but I want to make sure that your listeners are too, is that these types of very very personal and and deeply intimate conversations about one's purpose in

[45:19] life and and the legacy they want to leave and what they want to be remembered for. These types of very sensitive conversations tend to bring people together and and that's where where I've I've seen this before too where people were who were were initially miles apart quite often will come together in regards to that greater purpose.

[45:42] >> Interesting interesting point. Yes. Yeah. And and I can see that, right? Because I I know my my older sister and I are are um going through a number of issues for members of our family. And as we get to know more about these family members, uh our family's history, it's bringing us closer together because it gives us a greater understanding of who we've become as as people as well. So that's a very powerful point that you make. Yes, thank you. And and to and to answer your other your question, Kevin,

[46:18] if I understand it correctly, the the other major points that that people should be focusing on is is is as as I stress within my book, it's it's communicating with with other family members about one about what one one wants to have happen when they die or even if they become incapacitated and can't speak for themselves as to who's to be in charge and who's to speak up for them. But but also the the fact of, you know, do they want to be buried? Do they want to be cremated? Do they want to be recycled or or composted? There are far more options available today than ever before. But these types of

[46:54] conversations with family members should lead to some planning and and and and plans to be in place and other family members to know exactly what is to be done when that time comes because we all of us will die and many of us will be incapacitated at some point. I I was at two months after I published the book, I was al almost incapacitated with a brain tumor that I was diagnosed with and it's it was a huge shock to me, but that I had no idea that was around the corner.

[47:24] >> Well, and so that raises another good point, which is that kind of incapacitation can come absolutely without warning and and and then it may be too late, right? So, so there, you know, the best time to, this is what I've told people on occasion, the best time to engage in estate planning is five years ago. Next best time is right now,

[47:52] >> right? Same same as with investing, right? The the best time to have started to start investing is, you know, 20 years ago. Um, but the next best time is is is right now. and and it's it's not I think overblown to stress that kind of urgency especially if nothing has been done to date.

[48:13] >> Yes, absolutely Kevin and so many people are just putting this off. Roughly only about half of the adult population here in Canada has a valid will and I believe the statistics in the US are the same and in many other parts of of the world the statistics are are terrible too. But isn't it a shame that we live in, you know, in in one of the a couple of the the most progressive countries on the planet, yet so many people are are are putting off these types of conversations. I I read a a a survey recently that indicated that here in Canada that even though the vast

[48:48] majority of people do not want to leave a burden for their children when they die and they want to set them up in the best position possible, yet an Angus Reed survey revealed that less than 30% of the adults here in Canada have a comprehensive estate plan.

[49:06] >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's the same is true here in United States. I think only I believe the figure is 68% of people over 60 have a will or at least some kind of estate plan. And look, I I I don't like to think that over 60 is is old because I am over 60, but the reality is uh it's, you know, it's it I I don't want to say it's old in the sense of death is necessarily imminent, but but certainly for people who are 60 or older, they should have an estate plan in force. It's, you know, the chances that someone

[49:41] under 30 is going to die are certainly much lower than that someone over 60 is going to die. Um and and but but you know as you go down the age cohorts the percentage that have any but that have a will or any kind of estate plan here in the United States declines pretty rapidly. So I I I think someone told me recently the overall figure in the United States is somewhere around 30%. When you take all age cohorts,

[50:09] >> right?

[50:10] >> So you know that that that that that's shockingly low. And I I think either people don't know or they they don't want to deal with the fact and and I don't know if this is the same in Canada, but here in the United States, if someone dies without an estate plan, a will, a trust, whatever. So, uh, whatever property they leave behind is going to be divided up according to the law of the state in which they were a resident. and that may not at all conform to the the deedants's wishes.

[50:45] So I what is the situation for someone in Canada who dies in testate? Well, it it intestate deaths at I believe Kevin around the world to a large degree are much the same in the sense that if if you don't have a will, a valid will when you die, the government has one for you and chances are you're not going to like it, but you're going to be dead. You had your chance. And that's really the cold reality of this. and and and yes, your assets will ultimately go to your your family based on the the rules of that particular jurisdiction of where you lived, but

[51:23] it it's it's you have the government involved in your affairs. It slows things down. It's more costly. And and and also a will is a public record. It it I I think most people would be would be shocked if they knew how easy it was to pull up some a deceased person's will online and and read all the details of it. I don't think most people would want their their will available to anyone to look up online like that. But a will is a public document and and that's why trusts are are so important because trusts as you know provide a lot of many

[51:58] benefits and privacy being one of them.

[52:01] >> Right. Right. Yeah. And and and to be to be clear so people understand, um a will becomes public once it's been submitted for probate, at least here in the United States, because then it becomes part of the court record. And in general, court records are available to anyone who cares to view them. And at least here in, you know, Los Angeles County, pay roughly a dollar per page, you know, to buy to buy a particular document. But, uh, so it's not available for anyone to view prior to that. Nonetheless, uh, and and this is why some of these very high-profile cases, um, you know,

[52:37] reporters are able to get a hold of the deedent's will, is because once it's submitted for probate, it's, you know, un unless there's been a request to keep it sealed, to keep the court record sealed, and and the judge doesn't have to grant that particular request, as I understand it, uh, it's it's going to be public record. Whereas whereas you're right, a trust unless there's some dispute that leads to the trust being litigated, the trust itself will not become as a matter of routine public record. So uh I I you know that that sense of privacy that I think a lot of

[53:12] us have about these kind of issues uh can you know can be pretty easily violated if you will by by improper planning.

[53:23] >> Yes. And and again, it comes back to this whole issue, Kevin, of of of of good timing. We we don't know what's ahead of us. I had no idea that I would be uh diagnosed with this brain tumor two and a half years ago. And and we we just can't predict the future, but if I didn't mention this earlier, I want to stress this again because I think it's vitally important. I worked as a supervisor for one of with one of the largest mortuaries in Canada. And this organization still to this day, as far as I know, deals with over a hundred deaths each and every day. I've worked on the front lines with forensics and

[53:58] police and and seen all kinds of things that would that would make people's hair curl. But death is around us all the time. Yet, so many people have this mindset, well, estate planning is just for older people and it's just for people with money. Mhm.

[54:12] >> But you know, people can set up a will online these days, but as I stress in the book, there are cautions with that.

[54:19] >> For sure. For sure. Well, you know, it sounds like this particular mortuary was similar to the the VA here in United States. So, veteran uh VA cemeteries, I would venture to say they may do, you know, especially the larger ones may do more than 100 committals a day. I mean it is it is it happens on a as distasteful as this sounds almost an industrial you know scale process. Uh so uh you know th this this this is the reality of of life is is a lot of people

[54:56] die and they you know they have to be uh that has to be dealt with. Yeah.

[55:03] >> Uh I I you know in my in my own my own life I'll share a brief example. So when my father passed away I was um stationed overseas with the military and so uh one of my relatives handled um the funeral arrangements. I was I was helping from from overseas while working to get my family, you know, make arrangements for my family to to come to the United States for the funeral. And the end result was the wrong religious symbol was put on my father's headstone. Um,

[55:40] but I didn't find that out until I didn't because the the headstone wasn't set on the day of the funeral. That's typically not done. So, I went to go visit my father's grave a year later. No, I take that back. It was a couple years later because I had to go back to Japan. Um, but a couple years later, I went to go visit my father's grave and I found the wrong religious symbol was on his headstone. And because I wasn't the one who had made the original arrangements, they would not let me change it to the correct one. And the relative who did

[56:11] >> make the mistake

[56:12] >> doesn't want to correct it.

[56:16] >> So, you know, there you go. Yeah. And and you know, God bless him. I think my father just felt like there isn't really anything for me to plan for. I you know, I don't really have any significant assets and uh whatever property I have, my girlfriend, she's going to get it and you know, Kevin will take care of me, right? Kind of thing. But you know even in something as simple as that uh you know it it's it and this is this problem has persisted now since uh you know 2009 when he passed away. So

[56:52] uh you know these are the kind of things that happen without proper planning. So so Greg we're we're coming to the end of our time together. Um what what closing thoughts do you have for viewers and listeners um as you contemplate you know continuing to to bring your message to people? Well, th this message, Kevin, is all part of the death positive movement which is gaining a lot of traction and and I would urge people not to put off this planning and and and and and I know this sounds like a very biased opinion here, but this is exactly why I wrote

[57:29] this book. Do not ignore your mortality, practical advice from a funeral and financial insider is is really just to inspire readers and listeners to to lean into this process while minds are clear and time is plentiful. And there are many people out there willing and able to help you. But understanding the the fundamentals of of how the industry works and the and the glossery at the back has a number of terms and definitions that are highly regarded. It it it's a good motivator.

[57:57] >> Very good. Well, Greg, thank you very much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate it. Um I I haven't read your entire book, but I've I've I've read parts of it. I thank you for uh sending it to me and and I can I can make the shameless plug for you um which is that um Greg's book is loaded with outstanding information and if you have absorbed Greg's message so a great place to start investigating how to handle this issue is to get a

[58:33] copy of Greg's book. Greg, where can where can people get a copy of the book?

[58:37] >> They can find it pretty well. everywhere, Kevin. It's available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble and Apple iTunes. But, uh, I suggest people go to my website, do not ignore your mortality.com, and they can find everything there, including much more.

[58:51] >> Okay? So, after the after this episode posts on my YouTube channel, you'll see in the show notes, I'll put a link to Greg's website. you can just go right into the show notes, click through and and see not only the information on the website, but I I suspect there's there's links to the various places where where people can get a copy of the book and if they have uh additional questions and such, I I imagine that there's a way that they can be in touch with you as well.

[59:20] >> Yes, there is.

[59:21] >> Absolutely. Well, terrific. So, Greg, again, thank you so much for joining me. So, just wrapping up here real quickly because uh we're we're we're running out of time. Uh tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show, Business Lessons from the Military. And then on Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show, People Making Money. And then a week from today, I'll be back with the next edition of Trust and Estates Weekly. So, I thank you so much for joining Greg and me today, especially we had some some live viewers uh checking

[59:57] us out here. And uh hopefully I'll see you again later this week. If you have questions, comments, uh criticisms, uh links to my social media will be in the show notes and feel free to post them there. So, Greg, one last time, thank you so much for coming on Trust and Estates Weekly. Really appreciate the conversation we had together. And signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell.