The WAY to WOW Shows
Investing with Purpose: Aligning Wealth, Values & Legacy
August 24, 2026
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:02] Who are you? And [music] where are you going? What [music] do you want?

[0:17] >> Hello and welcome to Trusts and Estates Weekly. I'm your host Kevin Bemmel and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about estate planning and probate and trust administration from the standpoint of professionals like myself and my guest Gary who I'll enter introduce in just a moment, but also for those of you out there who this is not your profession. Maybe you got appointed as the executor under your parents' will and now you're dealing with this rather opaque process trying to figure it out. So hopefully this will

[0:53] give you some thoughts some ideas on how to handle things more effectively and perhaps speak to your advisors more cogently. So today I'm pleased to welcome to the show Gary Preiser, right?

[1:10] >> That's correct. Gary Preiser.

[1:12] >> He right before we started he said, "Now my [laughter] name is pronounced and I of course immediately went it

[1:16] >> It doesn't look like that, but that is how the it's pronounced. You got it right.

[1:21] >> Okay, good. Good. All right. Ooh, chalk one up for me.

[1:24] >> [laughter]

[1:25] >> Gary as you can see on the screen is the co-founder of Stone Briar Wealth Advisors based in Utah. Is that that's correct? Yeah. So Gary and I met actually earlier this week and he has a very interesting perspective on wealth advising. I think it's it's different than you will hear from the typical wealth advisors out there. I'm not going to name any names Um, you know, or initials.

[1:59] >> [laughter]

[2:00] >> So, um, but um, in in in any event, I I you know, although Gary is not involved solely in uh trust and and and probate work, I think that it's often times such a large component of an estate that it's it's important to to hear his his thoughts and perspectives. But, before we get into the topic, Gary, if if you would tell us a little bit about yourself so people can, you know, get to know you and know who you are.

[2:33] >> Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Kevin. And and I do come from a different perspective, and so I think I see things a little bit differently than most financial advisors. I actually started in the accounting and tax preparation side of the business and learned a lot of things about how taxes affect us in in all ways. And then I got more and more into small business consulting and really saw the impact of having to have a purpose for each dollar that that business has, and understanding how important cash flow is, and timing of that cash flow. And then I've been doing uh personal finance uh since 2009. So, so quite a

[3:08] while, but I look at it a little bit differently. I look at it from a purpose standpoint. And at at Stonebrier, we started Stonebrier about 4 and 1/2 years ago because we saw a big gap for those high net worth individuals from their advisors. They're going to get help with income and investments and taxes, which are very critical. They'll also get help with estate planning, and really not just the the administration of it, which you're so good at, but also the the structure of What are we How are we going to pass values on to the next generation? And for those that don't have access to that, they're kind of at

[3:44] their own devices, left to their own devices. And here at Stonebrier, we look at all of it. The end result of a financial situation, whatever your plan is, is going to be the estate. We have to keep that in mind. Um and the first thing that comes with estate planning is knowing are you going to have an estate or not? Right. Some people are going to run out of money. So, we got to make sure that we're not running out of money. Then we know what the estate will be. And then the next thing we got to figure out is what's the purpose of that estate? And that's one of the things that we help our clients with every day.

[4:15] >> Right. And And that that very much fits into the the larger theme of of really all of my shows where you know, you you can see the three pillars of attainment over my shoulder here. But the the fundamental idea there is that each of us should do our best to understand our purpose and mission in life. I I I I define those purposes is is who we are as an individual. Mission is the impact we want to have on others. I know other people may they may define them in the reverse. I don't think that's necessarily important per se. But But I

[4:52] think that that that concept should undergird our life. And what I found interesting about our prior conversation is you are really taking that uh to to heart, if you will, from an investment perspective. So, but before we get into the how, I guess maybe maybe if you can talk a little bit about the why. Why do you see that as being so important to developing an investment plan, an investment strategy?

[5:29] >> I think it's the only way to develop a plan. Because how can you create a plan if you don't know what you're trying to accomplish? If you don't know what the why is. And I think that's so simple. I think we see it in all aspects of our lives. We're taught that. We try to teach that. We try to implement that. And yet, when it comes to our investments, our industry as a whole starts with an allocation. Or they start with a risk profile. Or they ask you if you're conservative or aggressive, and they say this is what you should be in, without ever asking, "What is this money for?" Assets are not trophies. They're not

[6:04] something just to be admired. They are tools meant to be used, and we need to understand the purpose for every dollar that we have. That's our best chance of actually making our wealth function. It's not about just having more or having more than someone else. That doesn't matter. What matters is, does the wealth function to support the life and the mission that we we want to have, that we that we want to have now, that we want to have in the future, that we want to have for generations? We have to start with that question. I What I love about your podcast is that you are asking those questions. I don't

[6:40] understand why my industry doesn't. If we can start with the right questions, then our our planning becomes more specific. It becomes more tailored to each individual, which I think is critical. But most importantly, it becomes more efficient and more functional.

[6:54] >> Well, and and with without, you know, getting into, you know, the the private affairs of any of your clients, if give us, if you will, some some examples of of how of the purposes that people have. Cuz I think we hear these terms, you know, kind of all the time. But I I I think it's important to pin down um how how you're using them as specifically as as as possible.

[7:26] >> Well, what I typically ask a client or a new client or even a client I've had for a long time, what's the purpose for this money? They often give me a glazed look in their face, because they've never even asked that of themselves. They are so used to saving for some future, they don't realize that they're there. I give my client Frank a hard time cuz he's still talking about how much he's saving. I'm like, "Frank, you're 94 years old. What are you saving for? This is what you've been saving for." And so, while you're saving, while you're in the accumulation portion of your life, it's just growth. It's all about growth. That

[8:02] is the purpose. But, as we start to shift to distribution, as we get into retirement where we're going to actually use these assets, the questions have to become very different. And it may be that a client wants to travel. We want them to do that sooner rather than later. I joke that all of my clients want to bungee jump less 10 years from now than they do now. They Rarely do they want to bungee jump. I got one that wants to bungee jump. But, the the important thing is, what are you waiting for? And so many of my clients are so used to saving for a vacation three or four years down the road, when now they

[8:37] have millions of dollars, what are you waiting for? Do it now. So, travel's a big one. But, I will say I I told a client uh a few months ago, a couple, I said, "You should really do traveling more." And her face just lit up. She was so excited about to travel. And he actually, I think, grunted and scowled at me. I could tell that he never wants to leave the house. He didn't even want to come to my office to meet with me. He just wants to be there. So, everybody has different purpose. I joke that I have two extremes of clients. I have those that want their last check to bounce on their deathbed. I said, "As long as they can tell me when they're going to be on their

[9:12] deathbed, I can help with that." I have others that are so worried about an estate, so worried about leaving a legacy, that they never spend money on themselves. They don't go on vacation. They do not buy new cars. They don't even go out to eat. And then what happens when they pass? Well, their kids go on vacation, buy a new car, go out to eat. They spend all their money. That doesn't make any sense to me. Most people are somewhere in the middle, but we need to understand what that purpose is if we have any chance of creating or providing for a fulfilling life for them, which is different for everyone.

[9:46] >> I what you said a moment ago is so interesting cuz I I had an ongoing I'm not probably not an argument but discussion with my mother. When I say ongoing, probably you know, 20 years or more um after she retired um and and I'd say you know cuz you know, she had whatever she had um and and I would say you know, Mom my two sisters and I were all adults, okay? We're responsible for our own lives and she would say, "No, no, no. I I I have to make sure I leave you money." And I would say, "Mom

[10:22] if you spend your last dollar at the moment you take your last breath, as far as I'm concerned, you've done it just right. You you owe me nothing to us. You raised us. You did You You did your part." It's all up to us now, right? Um and and you know, I hopefully I think I had some success cuz she and her husband you know, traveled you know, quite a bit um until the last couple of years when when you know, he just he just couldn't physically unfortunately he he did pass away last week but um you know, I'm I'm I'm glad that she you

[10:58] know, took the opportunity because she always wanted to travel, right? It It was and be out there and meeting new people and all of that, which I think for her was a large part of the purpose for the travel was the new experiences, the new people. So So So as Okay. So as you What are What are some of the questions you ask your clients who maybe are approaching this issue for the first time? Well, it's interesting how prospective clients or new clients come to me and

[11:33] say and they usually dangle something like if I gave you a portion of my portfolio, 50,000 or 5 million, whatever that is, what would you do with it? And early in my career, I would kind of stumble around and try to answer that question. There is no answer to that question other than the question, what is the money for? I have to start by asking that question. And the example I use is if you tell me you need $25,000 in 6 months cuz you're going on a trip or you're gifting it to your kids or you're setting up a 529 plan, whatever the purpose is. If you need it in 6 months, well, first of all, I'm not going to put that in

[12:09] Bitcoin, right? [laughter] I'm not going to put it in the market. I'm not going to put it in anything that's volatile. I'm also not going to put it in a 7-month CD. The CD is not volatile, but it's not available. It's not liquid. It's not functional. So, it's it's a difficult conversation to have because they're not used to it. But we want to get as specific as possible with the purpose of the money because the purpose determines the timing of when they're going to use it. And once we know the timing of when they're going to use it, then we can design a plan and make sure that we have

[12:45] volatility in the right places and make sure we have liquidity in the right places. The problem that I see with most people that that most investors that do not have a purpose and that have these generic portfolios is everything is doing everything at once. There's a little bit of volatility, there's a little bit of liquidity, but there's no purpose to any of it other than kind of do everything. And as we know, when when anyone or anything is expected to do everything at once, they're not going to do it very well. So, those conversations are difficult and they're constant and my clients get sick of every time I see them,

[13:21] uh I I ask, "How's your cash flow? What's the purpose for this money? What has changed in your life?" Um but it's it we have to get that granularity in order to have the best chance to be successful. So, once you have at least enough information in terms of the purpose for for the money, what is the next step from there? So, the purpose determines the timing. If we know when the money's going to be used, then we create a portfolio that's customized to that timing. We design the

[13:56] portfolio specifically for their needs. And we use a methodology that we call the cash flow clock. It's fascinating to me that every financial decision we make in our lives is based on cash flow. Where we live, where we work, when we retire, where we vacation, what we eat, where our kids go to school, everything is based on cash flow. And yet in our industry, when it comes to investments, we get that risk questionnaire slid across the table with questions that most people don't understand, and the answers to those questions are used to determine a risk label, five labels for everyone in the country,

[14:32] everyone in the world really. Are you conservative? Are you aggressive? Are you moderate? Somewhere in the middle. The reality is those terms are meaningless because they're subjective. They're relative. They mean different things to different people at different times in their lives. What's conservative to you may be aggressive to me and vice versa. That's not That doesn't have any meaning. Cash flow is very specific, and we can design to it. So, with our cash flow clock, money that will be spent in the next 5 years, we we invest that very differently than money that will be

[15:07] spent in 25 years. Cuz in that 5 years, liquidity's the only thing I care about. I don't care about keeping up with inflation. I don't care about growth. I care about no volatility, liquidity, making sure that money is there for for that client when they need it to function. Even going out to 10 years, so from 6 to 10 years, we still need to take volatility out of the equation. I need a little bit more growth to keep up with inflation, maybe, but liquidity and function is the first priority. Once we get past 10 years, that's where we can endure, that's where we can be exposed to volatility. Volatility is no

[15:42] longer a threat, it's an opportunity for growth. And as long as we have that buffer of what we call lazy and safe money to cover those first 10 years, now we never have to sell out of desperation. When the market's down 30%, we don't have to say, "Well, I was planning on going on vacation. I either need to postpone my vacation or I need to sell out of these investments at the worst possible time." The lazy and safe money, they have already fulfilled that purpose for that vacation. The volatility zone, as we call it, that is just about long-term growth.

[16:18] And I see so many retirees as they get closer to retirement, they say, "Well, I can't have any more volatility in my portfolio." I'm like, "Okay, are you going to spend all your money in the next 3 years?" We're planning a 30-40 year retirement, and in a lot of cases, especially with your listeners, we're planning well beyond that cuz we're going to the next generation. And once we know the purpose and the timing for each portion of the portfolio, that can be much more accurate to start. And by understanding how those needs change and how they evolve, we know how to keep that portfolio aligned to their

[16:53] purpose. We don't make adjustments to the portfolio just because somebody got a year older or because they feel differently about risk, whatever that means. We make changes to suit or to fit their as their their purpose evolves and as they use the money that we need to make shifts so they make sure we always have enough liquidity.

[17:12] >> Interesting. And so, actually, you know what? Let's take a quick break and we'll come back. I have a follow-up question on that.

[17:23] >> When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step. Magnum Properties Inc., turning property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396

[18:00] or visit magnumprops.com.

[18:05] >> So, you know, when in kind of a prior, you know, career development, I did some training in, you know, securities and and wealth advising and such. And the the sort of, I don't know, conventional wisdom, if you will, is when you're young, I think you should have what, 25% in, you know, bonds or sort of fixed income and 75% in equities. And then and then, you know, that that that that percentage kind of shifts as you get older, right? So,

[18:40] >> Yes.

[18:41] >> from from what you're saying, it it it sounds like, you know, you would dispute the the the wisdom, if there is any, you know, in that idea. So, how would you respond to someone who's saying, "Well, look, all I need to do is 25/75 and eventually become 75/25, right? I mean, that that isn't is that just makes it easy, right?"

[19:06] >> It does make it easy. It makes it scalable. It makes it compliant. It makes it uh suitable, but it's not functional. And it we're looking It's called the rule of 100, exactly what you're explaining. You take your your age, subtract it from 100, and whatever that number is is what you you can have at risk. So, the older you get, the less money you have at risk, right? The problem is, let's take two 60-year-olds for example. One is retired, they both have expenses of $5,000 a month. One is retired, they are waiting for social security.

[19:41] Um when social security hits, they're going to have $3,000 a month of income. So, they're going to have a shortfall on income of $2,000 per month. The other 60-year-old is still working and will be working for the next 5 years. When they take social security, they also have a pension, their income's going to be $7,000 a month off of $5,000 expenses. They have more income than they're spending each month. Very, very different financial situations. And yet, based on the rule of 100, based on well, they're all they're both conservative, they would be invested exactly the same way.

[20:17] And they may come out okay, they may not run out of money if you run the Monte Carlo simulation enough times, they may be okay, but they're not going to be efficient, they're not going to be optimized, they're not going to be able to fulfill their purpose, whatever that is, efficiently if they're invested exactly the same way. They should be invested very, very differently. And especially for those for the the client that has plenty of income, this is where that purpose becomes critical. For the other client, it's surviving, right? We got to make sure they have enough to get by, but for that that other client with plenty of income, is the purpose estate? Is it travel now? Is

[20:53] it spending now? Is it gifting? Is it 529s? What is Is it charitable giving? What is the what is the purpose for that money? And that's going to allow us to create a customized portfolio for them.

[21:06] >> Okay.

[21:06] >> Okay. So it it it strikes me that I'm trying to think of how to craft this question, but but

[21:19] >> Sure.

[21:20] >> your perspective requires a a I don't know, higher level of understanding on the part of your clients, perhaps. Because it's not so simple. So how how and and this is no knock on any individual or any group of individual, but but financial literacy I think is is a significant issue in in in this country.

[21:52] >> And and so how do you deal with what is at least on the face of it kind of a conflicting situation. I you know, making high demands at just give you an example, my my daughter went to Beverly Hills High School. You would think at a high school, you know, in one of the richest places in the world you know, the the personal finance class would be very robust. Well, not really. Not really, you know, it's it's it was pretty it was pretty disappointing, right? So

[22:27] how do you deal with that that that that conflict, I guess?

[22:32] >> [gasps]

[22:33] >> It takes time and effort and education. The you're exactly right about financial literacy. There's such a lack of financial literacy about investing, about taxes, about estate planning. All of these things, they're not talking about it, they're not teaching it, and if you go online, how do you how do you know what to trust? Um and on one hand, you know, early in my it it feels overwhelming because there's so much work to do, so much that needs to be done. And on on one hand, I'm like, well, somebody's got to take care of this. I can't be the only one that sees the problem. Ideally, banks would

[23:08] be providing this financial literacy, but let's be honest. Again, not a knock on banks. We use banks. We need them. But their goal is to loan you money. Or to gather your assets so they can loan money to somebody else. Their incentives are different than aligning your purpose to your finances. And most financial firms, based on volume, they just don't have the time. Or they don't take the time, rather. I think they have the time. But I think that has caused the industry as a whole to shift so that they are using the rule of 100, these rules of thumb, these things that are defensible.

[23:43] And they're starting with the wrong the wrong answers. They're asking the wrong questions. They're asking how you feel about the market. Well, here here we you should put you in a fixed annuity because you're afraid of the market going down. Well, a fixed annuity may might be the best solution for a portion of that portfolio if it meets that purpose. But that doesn't mean that that's the answer. If we take a step back, if we as advisors are willing to take a step back and ask the client the question, what's the purpose of the money, then everything actually lines up a lot easier. It's so much easier for me to have a conversation about portfolio

[24:19] management because instead of saying, these are all of the things that you can do and we need to consider all of them because I don't know what you want to do, if I understand what you want, then now it narrows the focus. And of for the purpose of this portion of the portfolio, there are two or three options that we can consider. There's trade-offs in all of them and we need to understand them. But it now it narrows the focus and we can take it each segment at a time, each time zone at a time to create something that the client actually understands. Most people with generic portfolios, they don't understand why it's shifting.

[24:56] If they're in a target fund, why is it shifting more into bonds as they get older? But when with our clients, with our plans, they know this portion of the portfolio is meant to fund the 529 plan for your grandchild in 3 years. Or it's meant to take everyone in your family to Hawaii to celebrate your 50th wedding anniversary. Whatever that is, we can be that specific. And you can tell that the time that it took for us to discuss that was a matter of seconds. It doesn't really require more time, but it requires a willingness

[25:31] to really understand the client on a very purpose-based level, which helps us understand the timing and allows us to do our job a lot more efficiently.

[25:42] >> So I mean in many ways it's it I would equate what you're doing almost to a doctor. Right? A doctor doesn't have a patient come in and say, "Oh, I'm sick." Okay, well, let's consider the entire

[25:54] >> [laughter]

[25:55] >> range of of maladies

[25:58] >> That's right.

[25:58] >> to which you may be subject, right? They they start

[26:01] >> Or worse, say just just take this pill and you'll be fine without understanding what that is at all. I see that way too much in my industry as well. So I I Yes, it's a great example.

[26:10] >> Yeah, so I mean it's really you're really looking to do the diagnostic work first Yes. and then based on your diagnosis and then your prognosis, right? As as we say, so then you're mapping you're mapping out uh you know, a a a a treatment plan, if you will. Um so uh When you know What happens when you you have a client who has an idea about how their investments should be

[26:46] handled

[26:47] >> Yes.

[26:47] >> that is going to be counterproductive to the stated purposes.

[26:57] >> It takes some some time and education on that to help them first of all understand why do they feel the way they do about that investment. What's important about that investment to them? And in some cases it's emotional.

[27:11] >> Mhm.

[27:11] >> I inherited this stock from my dad. He got it for me when I was 5 years old and it's it's just meant the world to me. There's sentimental value to that. And as long as that's not going to cause them to go bankrupt, I'm I'm not going to maybe dispute that. I we had a client come in yesterday and she said, "My biggest priority is to leave money for my kids." And so we recommended a product that had a 10-year duration. She's like, "Well, 10 years is too long. I'm only I only want it for 3 years." I'm like, and then we we took a step back and said, "Well, remember your purpose. Is the purpose for you to spend this in 3 years? If it

[27:46] is, that's fine, but you just told us that your purpose is in 10 years or beyond, hopefully or 20 so what's most most important for you? Because every product, every investment has a trade-off. We need to understand those trade-offs and sometimes it requires a little bit of nudging with that client to remind them of their purpose. And and help them realize, you know, some of my clients they're the do-it-yourselfers, they like to have a what we call a sandbox. If you want to play with this, if that adds value to your life, cuz that's the purpose of all

[28:21] this is to add value.

[28:22] >> Right.

[28:23] >> And you enjoy this, then fantastic. We're going to understand, we're not going to rely on that for income in the next 6 months.

[28:29] >> Right.

[28:30] >> We're going to say if you do great, that's fantastic. If you don't do great, we've got you covered with the rest of it. So there are opportunities for that, especially depending on the the net worth. But I think understanding purpose and helping the clients understand their purpose and stay aligned to it. We have lots of ways of measuring financial success. Unfortunately, our industry defaults to average rate of return. Well, if you got 7% rate of return, then you're going to be okay.

[28:58] >> Mhm.

[28:59] >> That's not good enough. If the market got 20 and you only got seven and you took the same volatilities the market, that shouldn't be acceptable. But the way that we measure success isn't returns. It we we want to get good returns, let me be clear.

[29:13] >> Mhm.

[29:13] >> But it's it's measuring alignment. Are we still aligned? I joke with my clients that we create perfect financial plans and estate plans

[29:22] >> Mhm.

[29:23] >> if we know when they're going to die and [laughter] and what's going to happen to them and to the world and to the taxes between now and then, right? Nobody's been able to tell us that yet.

[29:33] >> Okay.

[29:34] >> More likely, we are like the Apollo moon mission that's off course almost the entire time, but we're constantly making those adjustments to their alignment or to align to their purpose so that we have a much more likely opportunity to arrive at the destination they want to be at.

[29:53] >> Mhm. Mhm. So, okay. So, Oh, that question dropped off.

[29:59] >> [laughter]

[30:00] >> Um So, it it it it strikes me that um your your your core your core purpose

[30:13] >> Mhm.

[30:13] >> is actually not investing people's money per se.

[30:18] >> Correct.

[30:18] >> It's developing a relationship a close enough relationship with the client to be able to understand their purpose um maybe better than they do.

[30:33] >> Yes.

[30:34] >> Right? So, that that that you can um so that that you can then, you know, be as successful as one can be in in handling, you know, in advising them on their wealth. I I I'm I'm curious how that that thought strikes you.

[30:52] >> You're absolutely right. As wealth advisors, we should be the quarterback, as it were. We should be coordinating all of these things. We want our clients to to let us know what's going on. I think too many wealth advisors, they they say, "Trust us with your money. Don't pay attention to what we're doing with it because it's too complicated for you to understand." which is not true at all. And when the market's up, congratulate me because look what I did for you, which is not accurate. When the market's down, well, that's not my fault the market's down. We should expect more from our assets. We should expect more from our advisors

[31:28] because it is so critical to understand how this money is working and how it's coordinated. One of the big problems I have with our industry is there's a financial advisor, so-called, who's actually just an investment advisor. And usually they're either just insurance or just securities, and that's the only thing that they do. And then you have a tax advisor who's actually a tax preparer. They're looking back at last year. Every decision that the financial advisor is making affects taxes in some way, shape, or form. Yet, they will say in the disclaimer over and over again, "I'm not

[32:04] responsible for your taxes. I'm not a tax expert. Don't ask me about your taxes." One of the things I'm most proud of in our company is 6 weeks ago, we did a bunch of Roth conversions. Now, [clears throat] why did we do that? Because the market was down to 6,200. And we didn't know that that was the bottom, and it we don't it may not still be the bottom, but it was lower than it was before. For those clients that we knew we wanted to pay tax this year with a Roth conversion, we wanted to do that at a discount. And now the growth since then, whatever the market's at today, has been tax-free for that client. Most

[32:41] financial advisors are not even considering that cuz they're not looking at the taxes. With us, we are looking at it from a holistic standpoint. We have to understand the tax implications. We have to understand the estate tax or the estate implications and taxes along with that. I have so many clients that they have non-qualified money that they are not going to spend in their lifetime because they have all this IRA money that they need to spend. And yet they are in dividend funds that are causing them a dividend taxes on that dividend income every year. And I'm like, the purpose of this money is to leave it to

[33:17] your beneficiaries. Let's take out the dividends. Let's get growth stocks and take advantage of the step up in cost basis for your estate to make that estate more tax-efficient.

[33:27] >> Mhm.

[33:27] >> It's a simple conversation. It's a matter of asset location. But if we most advisors don't take the time to have that conversation cuz they're not looking at it from that perspective. And quite frankly, with AI, with commoditization of of investment portfolios, with robo advisors and robo investors, I think the real opportunity in our space is to be that coordinator. To be that advisor that is intimately familiar with our clients' needs and is able to look at all aspects of their finances,

[34:02] not just their investments. What's the situation with their mortgage? Should they get a home equity line of credit? Should they finance their car or buy it with cash? All those questions some advisors may think is beneath them or too mundane, but these are the details that make a life left well lived.

[34:20] >> Mhm. [clears throat]

[34:20] >> We don't live life over time. I mean, we do, but we live life in moments. And we need to be able to plan the finances to support those moments of time so that the the clients actually feel comfortable in doing the things that they want to do.

[34:36] >> Very good. Let's take another break. We'll come back for more. Probate and Trust TV, your curated source for the most useful and insightful content on estate planning and trust and probate administration featuring standout professionals like Bill Gross, Paul Rabalais, James Cunningham, and yours truly. Whether you're a lawyer, accountant, real estate professional, or working on your own succession plan, this channel helps you quickly find the clearest, most practical content YouTube has to offer.

[35:13] Subscribe now to Probate and Trust TV. Spend more time learning, less time searching. So the the quarterback scenario, that resonates with me because in many ways that's that's the position that that that I hold, you know, in the work that I do. And I sometimes will use, you know, that metaphor or team captain or whatever you know, whatever it would be, right?

[35:41] >> Yes.

[35:41] >> So one of the challenges I have from time to time is, you know, a client comes to me and you know, they've got a team already, right? And and they they're sitting in the quarterback's I know this is a mixed metaphor, but chair.

[36:04] >> Yes. Yes.

[36:05] >> [laughter]

[36:06] >> And you know, they're you know, they're trying to sort of you know, crowbar in this other aspect, right? So how how how should someone work with that that dynamic? How do you how do you and your team, you know, work with that dynamic? Or Or Or is that just not, you know, someone that's that is is going to work within, you know, the philosophy that you have at StoneBridge?

[36:38] >> We bring everyone together. And for a lot of our clients, we actually pay for the tax preparation. So that we are in community that CPAs willing to talk to us, right? We're going to have a conversation. I just had a wonderful conversation yesterday with a client who brought his CPA in to make sure we were all on the same page. And it was it was we were so aligned in purpose for that client, it made it so much easier. We've had CPAs that we've worked with who have not been aligned, and we can tell that they are just focused on preparing the taxes, not in doing tax planning, not looking forward to the

[37:14] taxes. And that's so critical, not only for the individual, but especially from the estate standpoint.

[37:19] >> Mhm.

[37:20] >> Because the taxation on the estate is something we have to take into account. We bring in the estate attorney if they have one or if they need one, and we make sure that we're on the same page. We need to understand Well, it's interesting to me when estate attorneys create a trust without understanding the purpose of the money to begin with.

[37:39] >> Right.

[37:39] >> How How do we know that that trust is going to actually um execute or enforce what the client wants if we haven't had that conversation? And because we are in that position, we do take the time to understand the purpose, it's a lot easier for us to be in that meeting with the client and tell the estate attorney, this is what they have, this is these are their beneficiaries, this is the purpose for each each account, each portion of the portfolio. Now, the estate attorney attorney's job is to make sure that the legal documents are consistent with that. That we're aligned to that purpose. But it requires

[38:16] that coordination. It requires being willing to say, "Hey, I don't I don't want to do a trust. I'm not an estate attorney, I never wanted to be. But I need to make sure my job, my value add is to make sure that that estate attorney can do their job as efficiently as possible because we've coordinated with them.

[38:33] >> So it it it is interesting because the kind of divide that you've described in the wealth advising world, I think that that exists too in the estate planning world where there are, I think a growing number of estate planning attorneys who are taking the same approach that you are, that the estate plan is not the documents per se.

[38:57] >> Right.

[38:58] >> It's understanding what is what is the client looking to accomplish, what what what is their plan, you know, how do they want to deal with their beneficiaries as opposed to well, an estate plan includes, you know, these five key documents or whatever. I mean, that's generally speaking the it's true, but it's that's not the core of it. The core is what it, you know, what are the events for which we're planning it's etc.

[39:23] >> Yes. I I completely agree and I think we we missed the boat when we when we start estate planning or we we limit estate planning to trust or wills or medical directives or power of attorney. Those are very important. Please make sure that you have those if you don't. But we need to understand the purpose first. We need to understand the impact of taxes. So many people assume that if their money's in a trust, then there's no taxes to their beneficiaries.

[39:50] >> Right.

[39:50] >> That's not the case. There may not be taxes, but it's not because of the trust, it's because it's non-qualified assets.

[39:56] >> Right.

[39:56] >> One of the stories that I tell in my seminars is I have my my uh the the participants imagine that their Uncle Bobby recently passed. Uncle Bobby left behind $300,000. $100,000 in each account for three beneficiaries. Yourself, your sibling that you love dearly, and your cousin that you don't care for. We all have at least one of those cousins, right? And the three accounts are there's a non-qualified account, there's a traditional IRA account, and there's a Roth IRA account. $100,000 in each.

[40:27] >> Mhm.

[40:27] >> And I joke because I know you necessarily can't do this, but if you have control, what I say is give the traditional IRA to your cousin.

[40:36] >> [laughter]

[40:37] >> Give the the non-qualified account to your sibling and keep the Roth account for yourself. The amounts are the same. They say $100,000, but the net amount is very, very different because that traditional IRA comes with a tax liability to your cousin

[40:53] >> Right.

[40:53] >> in the within the next 10 years. The non-qualified is tax-free for now, but any growth beyond will be taxable. The Roth is tax-free for an additional 10 years. And that is an element of tax of estate planning, rather, that is so critical from a financial standpoint. And I think most attorneys, if they're not looking at or considering the taxes, they don't understand how that works. I think most people that are executing or the executor on the estate, they don't know the difference in the taxes. They're just kind of dealing with it reactively

[41:24] >> Mhm.

[41:25] >> instead of being proactive and intentional about taxes throughout our lifetime, but also throughout our estate.

[41:32] >> Well, and and the reality, too, is is once you're at the administration phase, there's probably a not not a whole lot that can be done, right? I mean

[41:40] >> Got to start it earlier. Yes.

[41:41] >> Yeah, it it's yeah, exactly. And and I know for you know, for my clients who or for people who are considering bringing me in, for example, to be, you know, trustee on a trust, you know, you know, usually their their primary questions are one, are you interested? Two, how much do you charge? You know, right? And and and my response to them is um can't answer the first question until I know more about the situation.

[42:10] >> [snorts]

[42:10] >> And two, uh again, can't answer that question until I know more about the situation and and I engage with them in a conversation. I suspect they're pretty similar to the ones you have because in the end, they're putting on me the fulfillment of their purpose.

[42:30] >> Yes.

[42:31] >> But if if they haven't planned in a way that allows me to fulfill that purpose, now I've got a at best a very difficult administration to handle. And if the if the beneficiaries have have been told, you know, here's the purpose for the money and now I can't do it, now I've got something worse than a difficult administration. I probably have, you know, I you know, a litigation situation cuz they're going to be angry, well, you know, Kevin, why didn't you do this thing?

[42:58] >> Right. It's all your fault, right?

[43:00] >> Right. Right, exactly.

[43:02] >> It's It's fascinating to me when clients come come to us in our respective industries and ask about cost instead of asking about value. What's the value add that you can bring to the table? And I I think it's it's short-sided to just think about cost. I know whenever I I'm in the the market for a new car, it drives me crazy to go to that dealership and the first question they ask is what's your budget? I'm like, no, this is not about what I can afford to pay. This is Your job is to find me the best value that I can get for my dollar. Do not ask me about my

[43:37] budget. Ask me or show me the value that you can provide and I think we need clients in our industries to really look for value. Okay? If I even if I charge twice as much as the as a competitive wealth advisor, but if I bring you 4X the return, are you willing to pay that? And I'm not saying I pay twice and I'm not saying I can guarantee I give you 4X, but that's a much more important conversation to have than what is this going to cost me?

[44:07] >> Right. Right. Yeah, same it's interesting that it's the same kind of math on my end. If I can administrate your your your estate in you know, in in in half the time, if I'm charging on an hourly basis, but my hourly fee is, you know, a third higher than somebody else's, still you're going to end up

[44:26] >> Come out ahead.

[44:26] >> in a better position, right? Um yes. So, but it it I I think I do think there's a lot of flux in our industry. I think people are just beginning to come to terms with the I I try not to use hyperbole, but it is a truly massive amount of wealth that's going to be transferred over the next, you know, 10 to 20 years. It's estimated here in California alone to be something like, you know, potentially 10 trillion dollars. Trillion dollars or more, right?

[44:57] >> Trillion.

[44:58] >> And I think that again, many people in our profession really have not come to terms with what that means, number one. And number two, for the people who might be receiving this wealth, um there's there's just absolute paucity of uh preparation for what this means, right? We hear these statistics that people who inherit wealth or win the lottery, you know, like I think it's like 70% of them it's gone within 5

[45:33] years or what whatever the number is, right? So, as you look at working with your clients who at least part of their purpose is to pass on to the next generation, how how do you handle, you know, that aspect of it? Because the beneficiaries presumably are not really your clients. On the other hand, maybe they will become so, but they're certainly relevant in the equation.

[46:05] >> I I get two uh comments from new clients typically, sometimes both. I wish I'd met you 20 years ago. Cuz we we we end up fixing a lot of things. And the second thing is I wish you would teach this to my kids or at least someone would teach it to my kids. It seems to be like we're the we're the responsible ones. Um and that's one of the reasons that I wrote uh the book called The Essence of Wealth. To to give those those building blocks, that foundational help them understand. I Sometimes I have clients come in and I'm talking about they're telling me they got an IRA and they got a Roth and I'm like and we talk about the purpose of each

[46:40] one and I realize they have no idea what the difference between a traditional IRA and a Roth IRA is. We've got to start with those basics even for clients that are in their 70s and 80s but especially for those that are in their 20s and 30s. That that book that we have gives gives them that foundation. But that's only the starting point, obviously. They the clients themselves, they have an obligation to pass not only assets to those to those beneficiaries but pass values to those beneficiaries. That is truly uh leaving a legacy.

[47:16] And I think one of the big problems that a lot of clients have in leaving a legacy is they're so worried about themselves and making sure that they don't run out of money. I talked to so many clients. I talked to one a couple weeks ago and they want to they need $30,000 for for a patio and they want to go on vacation and they've expected that they're going to have to spread that out over the next three or four years. And I told them straight up, I'm like, you're millionaires. They don't even realize it. You have a million dollars and I showed that based on your spending, if you live to 90, you're going to leave behind more money than

[47:52] you have now. Use the money. Use it. And if that's building a if that's gifting money to kids now instead of gifting giving them more later, so that you can be in control of that process. So you can see how they're using that. So you can make corrections. So that you can show them what you would want to have done with it. What what they should do differently. I say that $20,000 today is often worth way more than $200,000 10 or 20 years from now. This is when your beneficiaries need it. In most cases, our clients that are receiving inheritances, by the time they

[48:28] get it, they don't really need it. So now they're just planning on passing that to the next generation. It just keeps getting kicked down the road. What I'd much rather see is that that money gets utilized while they're alive to to actually create something that's meaningful. I compare a lot of my clients to the the ants in Aesop's fable that saved food for the winter. And what what if they don't realize or what they forget is that is what happens at the end of the fable. I'll say, "What did the ants do at the end of the fable?" And they they have no idea. All they remember is the saving part. I said, "At the end of the fable, the ants ate the food."

[49:04] >> [laughter]

[49:04] >> They didn't just admire it. They didn't look at it. They didn't brag about it. They used the food for the purpose it was intended. And the assets need to be used by you and or the next generation for that purpose. And that is I think what's so critical in this transition is not just the dollar amount, but the the purpose and the values that can be transitioned. And the the amount of good that can really be done with that $10 trillion in California, much less all the all the money everywhere else.

[49:35] >> Nice. Absolutely. Well, you know, I'm sorry to say that we're we're we're at our time limit. Gary, I'm going to have to have you come back because I think there's a lot more to talk about here. And and and and you know, as I said at the beginning of the show, I I think that that you your ideas, your values so align with with what I I'm seeking to do with the Wait to Wow show. So, I really appreciate you coming on today and and talking about these ideas, beginning or or not necessarily beginning, but really pushing forward this this education process, not just for people who are

[50:13] dealing with their wealth, but I think for for people like myself who, you know, we we deal with with clients all the time, and it it it it's good to to have the idea of purpose-focused advising reinforced for all of us. So, thank you very, very much.

[50:32] >> Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Kevin. With There's a lot of a lot of work to be done in our industries, and I I appreciate what you're trying to accomplish here, and happy to support in any way I can.

[50:41] >> So, for those of you, if if you want to get in touch with Gary, just look right down below. You'll see in the show notes I have his contact information there. Reach out. I'm sure that that Gary and his team are are are happy to speak with you. And and, you know, need I say that uh you know, that that Gary comes with with with my endorsement because our perspectives align just, you know, one one to one here. It is so important for us to understand what do we want our life to be about? What is our Wait to

[51:17] Wow, right? That is That's the name of the show. And and and Gary and his people are certainly there to help you find that and and get there.

[51:26] >> [snorts]

[51:26] >> So, real quickly, just wrapping up and then we'll we'll talk offline for a moment. So, uh if my question for you is what is what how what have you thought about your purpose? Are you clear on your purpose? And if not, why not? What's keeping you from from engaging with that question? And And I'll admit, I I I think it's it can be a daunting issue to confront. I I know it I did not do it certainly in my younger years, and and it's only as I

[52:05] you know, started dealing with other people and and the frustrations that that Gary expressed in being asked to do things for them, but not understanding the context that I understood the importance for my own life. I I I really love to hear where your, you know, struggles You don't have to disclose personal information, but but what are what are the blocks and and how can we help you move through and beyond those blocks? So, if you want to drop a cop comment into the uh on social media, again, all the links are are are right below in the show

[52:40] notes. So, real quickly, slate of shows, Mondays, like today, at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time, Trust and Estates Weekly. Tuesdays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time, Business Lessons from the Military. Wednesdays at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time, uh People Making Money. And then, every other Thursday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Time, join me at Jigger's Place for a cocktail and a schmooze. We talk about all the things not related to finances, relationships, I ideas, values, etc. And even movies and that sort of those those kind of fun things. So, lots of

[53:16] opportunities for us to be together during the week, and I hope you'll join me again. So, Gary, once again, thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it. Look forward to having you on again. And that just leaves me to sign off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my