The WAY to WOW Shows
Getting Business from Professional Fiduciaries
October 23, 2023
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[0:15] hello and welcome to trusts and Estates weekly I'm your host Kevin bemel and we're here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific Time 1 p.m eastern time for about 30 minutes to talk about issues related to the administration of trusts Estates probates as well as um estate planning uh for our own sakes or um you know learning about what we need to do in order to uh deal with our property at that you know fateful moment when uh we

[0:51] Shuffle off this Mortal coil as Shakespeare says sorry I'm getting a little bit of a late start this morning those of you who have children you know how that goes sometimes so um you know daughter Uber Alis as we might say um but uh you know can can you tell you know glowing face proud dad all that kind of stuff so um and and and just one second I gotta make sure she's got what she needs I guess so okay um anyway so here we are and um this morning um I want to talk about a

[1:28] topic that um perhaps you've been waiting to hear about I know one of my one of my friends and colleagues has been waiting to hear about this and that is getting business from professional fiduciaries so for those of you who um are uh either are already in a realm connected to trust and Estates or would like to grow your business into that area so this will be I think particularly useful for you because I'm going to go through what those

[2:03] professions might be and and how we can work together so for those of you who are new to the show um and you're saying well wait a minute what's a professional fiduciary that that's a great question so rather than taking time to answer that uh today I encourage you to go to our YouTube channel and and go to the um show list for trust and Estates weekly go back to the very first show and it's actually for some reason it got split into two parts so you'll see part one and part two they're actually just

[2:39] overall a 30 the first 30 minute show that I did and I talk about what a professional fiduciary is what we do and and all those kind of things but just to summarize it in you know 10 words or less a a professional fiduciary is someone who acts in the capacity of a trustee or an executive executrix an administrator administr um and and does that for a living now in California you have to have a licensed to do that there are

[3:15] other states where you have to be a member well you have to have a certification through a particular Professional Organization um for most of the 50 United States um there is no no licensing or certification requirement now by the way professional fiduciaries do other things and I am going to be commenting on that in today's show um my practice is um centered around trusts and Estates as you might guess by the title of my show um but there are

[3:51] other things that that a professional fuer uh may do it depends on what the person's interests experience Etc are so as I always do I have a little PowerPoint I think it's a a more effective way to learn when we can see as well as hear um about a subject and so you know here's uh here's our our desktop dressing Estates weekly and here we go so again for those of you who are new to the show The Three Pillars of

[4:26] attainment is the system that undergirds all of the way to wow shows and uh today we're going to be working primarily in the Pursuits pillar and in the finances realm okay other times we will we will deal in the other pillars but today we're pretty much sticking with finances although you're going to see that finances and relationships especially colleagues um are going to connect quite a bit so first of all let's talk about what kinds of professionals can professional

[5:04] fiduciaries Mo what which ones do we most often uh work with okay and it's really people who are involved in these different disciplines so um estate planning financial planning tax planning okay Investment Management bookkeeping and accounting Insurance real estate home health care now for professional fiduciaries like me who concentrate primarily on trust and estates this is pretty this is a pretty comprehensive list now there are um

[5:42] fiduciaries who concentrate more on Guardianship and conservatorship matters okay and and so the differen is in a guardianship or a conservatorship um the fiduciary is um really in a role where they're helping a person live their life either because the person um has some impaired abilities um they they may be for example neurodiverse and so they're not able to

[6:18] fully take care of themselves they need some support perhaps in um managing their finances or in um dealing with uh their education those kind of things or dealing with their healthare and so um that's another area and so Guardianship and conservatorship are again other areas where professional fiduciaries act um in in those cases they're dealing with the person um T you know while the person's still alive with a with aate and Trust

[6:55] um fiduciary while we may while we will typically deal with the client before they pass away most of the time we're not going to be doing anything until after the client is deceased okay and then we take over the the administration of of their trust or estate um or we may uh probate their estate something like that um but we probably have do very little um while they're still alive other than perhaps a periodic review and in some cases we can be brought in a by

[7:32] by another professional after um the uh after the the um uh the person who's who who has died has died okay so you could add to this list by the way um PE attorneys Etc who settled people's Estates as well as do the planning okay so but these are these are the general areas so if you're involved in these areas um you are probably in one or more of these professions okay so

[8:08] top of the list is lawyers lawyers um do most estate planning especially when it we're talking about documents so if you're going to form a trust in most cases you're go going to need the assistance of a lawyer to do that um especially if you have any kind of complex matter so I talked last week about special needs trusts that is not something you you want to undertake on your own okay there are very specific rules about how they work and you're you're going to need an attorney to help you with that

[8:44] accountants of course um accountants play a big part in financial planning as well as Estate Planning and tax planning okay and they may also handle um things like bill paying and such they may have a part of their practice that does that where they have book bookkeeper so you're you're hopefully not paying an accountant especially a CPA to do your bill paying um but you may have the the the accountant may have almost like a business management side to their practice where they have uh other other people like bookkeepers and administrators who help with that sort of thing okay financial planners you

[9:21] could be a cfp a certified financial planner or you could be I believe it's a chartered financial planner I think that's a um in England okay financial advisors this is what we used to call stock Brokers okay I don't think people call themselves stock Brokers anymore um because there are so many different Financial products out there whether it's bonds whether it's U mutual funds whether it's ETFs with crypto all these things so now financial advisors You Know cover a very wide gamut um and and and you know that probably as much as I do okay Insurance

[9:57] Brokers okay by the way Financial advice iers may also deal in insurance but there are um Insurance Brokers that all they do is Insurance real estate agents okay and then Home Health Care Professionals now with respect to real estate agents typically um professional fiduciaries will work with real estate agents on the transactional side of the business either because a property needs to be sold or perhaps there's a commercial property and they they need a space to be leased out okay as opposed to

[10:32] property managers now property managers are real estate professionals but in my experience most professional fiduciaries manage the property themselves not all certainly okay now I I personally I come from a background of property management in my in in Kevin 1.0 I had a property management company that was one of my primary businesses okay and and by the way I I could have added to this list um real estate appraisers um because often times uh real estate appra appraisals are necessary and and and but really any

[11:09] kind of appraisal might be necessary personal property appraisals business appraisals so if you're in the appraisal business um you're another type of professional who um would would be um you know a good candidate for working with professional fiduciaries let me just check time okay I think we're okay all right so how do you get business from a professional fiduciary I can sum it up in three words build a relationship with that person okay build

[11:44] a relationship now in for professional fiduciary our stock in trade comes down to four um I don't know values I guess if you want to call them that you see them there trust understanding reliability and competence okay this is what we sell if you will okay trust understanding reliability and competence while we may

[12:20] bill by the hour or we or we may have some other way of calculating our fees we're not really selling our time okay we are selling these qualities and if you want to build a relationship with a professional fiduciary these are the qualities that we're looking for in the people we work with because if if I refer um let's say I've got an I'm I'm I'm uh administrating an estate okay and that

[12:55] means that periodically um I may have to report to the court um about what I'm doing with respect to that estate well if I'm going to bring someone in to help me I want them exhibiting the same qualities that I'm bringing to the administration of that estate if I don't feel reasonably sure that the person I'm working with is trustworthy that we understand each other the person is reliable and the person is competent I'm not going to take the risk of working with that person because in the end I'm

[13:32] going to take I have the responsibility for that okay so this is this is what all well all I mean in in my experience all professional fiduciaries are looking for these qualities first and foremost in the people that they work with and so it is through the demonstration of these four qualities that you can build a relationship with professional fiduciaries now I'm going to stress that

[14:08] word the demonstration of these qualities okay you know you know the old adage if someone tells has to say to you trust me you better start holding your wallet okay well actually I keep my wallet over here no I forget where I keep my wallet um but but I think you get what I mean okay okay I don't saying you know I'm trustworthy means nothing I need to demonstrate that I'm trustworthy in the way that I handle my clients's business Affairs okay and and a fiduciary I'm I'm

[14:46] circling the the word fiduciary I I realize I don't know if you can see it that way but anyway um the the key aspect of a fiduciary is we are setting our clients best interest above our own that is the highest level of trust you can have short of clergy penitent privilege okay so so anyone we deal with has got to be trustworthy that's why I put that first okay the other three you know I don't know that you know reliability is more

[15:23] important than competence um certainly my ability to have an understanding um and be able to communicate clearly with the people I'm working with is is very important um so that's why it's second reliability and competence I don't know those could those could flip positions in terms of their importance certainly I'm not going to deal with anybody who's not competent or that I don't feel as competent but I'm also not going to deal with anybody who's not reliable okay and so your your job in building a relationship with a professional fiduciary is is showing that person that

[16:01] you have these qualities all right so let's talk about how do you do that then well actually before we talk about how you do that let's talk about how can you meet fiduciaries okay so it's all good and well to create relationships but you got to meet them first right um so first of all referral referral is Far and Away the best way to meet people because presumably the person making the introduction knows both parties and so

[16:36] you have a sense of the other person by way of you know who introduced that person okay so um that's that's as far as I'm concerned top on my list next is networking and educational meetings so there's lots and lots of networking organizations out there um there are things like like um most bar associations will have a trust inate or an estate planning section okay and and that's where the attorneys who focus on that meet they share information they

[17:12] educate each others um and there are pro there may be I should say not probably but there may be some fiduciaries who are going to those meetings and or specifically to meet attorneys who are involved in Trust and Estates probates Etc okay same with accountants okay they have um professional associations um the California Society of CPAs for example cscpa they have different sections okay I know in my you know my first career I

[17:47] I was part of the credit grantors committee I think it was called it was everybody involved with lending and that was a large part of my business back then um was was helping lenders so those are places that you can Network very effectively now I I prefer this is my preference so you know one reporter's opinion as they say I prefer focusing on those kind of targeted groups where I'm more likely to meet people who are part of the area that I'm focused on as

[18:23] opposed to more General networking groups okay which there are lots of those out there and they're perfectly fine one of the benefits of those is they only have one person for each profession so there's no competition there and and and those can be great um it really depends on um the organization um but for sheer kind of you know bang for your buck or or um impact for the time spent um being around um an or being involved in organization focused on your you know your uh professional

[19:00] interest um probably is better now by the way I I I didn't put this in specifically it it just jumped to mind as I as I'm talking another good place to consider are um charitable organizations especially if they have um especially if if their um focus is in this area so for example here in Los Angeles we have something called the um oh shoot I think it's called the Jewish Foundation that may not quite be the right name but their whole issue are

[19:37] trusts and Estates okay and it's helping helping their donors estate plan okay so um being involved in a charity and I don't mean going to their meetings looking for business I mean really being involved in helping that organization achieve its Mission okay can be a tremendous way of networking and meeting people and being able to demonstrate trustworthiness and these other qualities that we talked about in the previous slide okay and and when you've got that affinity for the

[20:12] organization okay that that can be a that can be a great thing all right um here in California we have something called Pac the professional fiduciaries association of California this is organization of professional fiduciaries okay and um I believe all profession licensed professional fiduciaries in California belong to the organization okay we're voting members how there is something called an affiliate

[20:47] membership okay and as an affiliate member you can you can um attend most of the meetings all the educational meetings which will give you an opportunity to meet a lot of professional fiduciaries okay you can go to the the annual conference okay so all of that is an opportunity to meet lots and lots of professional fiduciaries and probably as important learn about what we do in a in a um a deeper way okay so that you can

[21:25] um position yourself uh to be able to demonstrate your competence your reliability more effectively okay and then last uh you know in terms of social media um really I think LinkedIn is is is probably the only um social media Outlet I I use in terms of professional networking I find it a very effective tool and I do have a show on how to use LinkedIn to um to make to create relationships okay and in fact that's

[22:01] it's one of the tools I use most often um for my for my own practice um so you know if if you are interested in using social media so I recommend using LinkedIn and I'm I wish I could tell you I think it was back in I want to say March I did that show but it could have been March of last year anyway go if you want to go to my YouTube channel and search um relation ships LinkedIn um you'll you'll find the episode where I explain how to do that all right so this is where to meet them now let's talk

[22:36] about oops what happened here there we go let's talk about how to create relationships let's see how we're doing on time good we're doing great all right so first of all target fiduciaries you can help so if you are um a um an estate planning attorney okay you're probably not going to get a whole lot of business from um from uh fiduciaries whose practice is

[23:12] centered primarily on guardianships okay I mean you may get some now if your if your legal practice deals with Guardianship and conservative ships maybe you're you have an elder care practice okay so in that case focusing on fiduciaries who um deal with uh conservatorships and guardianships that would be better for your practice okay so align what you do with fiduciaries who are in doing a similar type of work okay and by the way there

[23:48] are some fiduciaries you know they focus um almost exclusively on guardianships of young people okay so you know if if if you're uh I'm thinking out of the box here let's say that you are a psychologist who specializes in teens and young adults so that would be you know looking for fiduciaries who deal with guardianships of those of of folks in that Ang rage age range will be much

[24:24] better than than trying to you know work with me where I I just don't do that kind of work so I don't think I would ever have an opportunity um certainly not regular opportunities to refer you business so so Target the fiduciaries that you can help next understand their needs okay I talked about them in general at the beginning things like estate planning financial planning you know bill paying those kinds of things you're going to you're going to want to understand them in great depth than that

[25:00] especially for um particular fiduciaries so some fiduciaries deal with fairly small Estates others deal with larger ones okay and and and if you're involved in Estate Planning and if you're involved in the admin the administration of Estates you know that it's very different you know taking care of an estate where maybe there's a house and a car and some personal property than it is where there's one with multiple brokerage accounts and you know complex insurance issues that kind of thing okay

[25:36] so understand what is that particular what are the needs of that particular fiduciary as well as the the more General needs of the category you're working in okay then demonstrate your competence now the best way to do that is to share information and resources okay so when I'm talking to a uh let's say an estate planning attorney okay one of the things I tell them is hey if you've got a question give me a call you know I'll I'll be I'll do my best to answer it for you if I don't have an answer off the top of my head I'll find

[26:12] it for you I'll you know take some time to do that don't charge for that I'm not expecting to be compensated for those for those kind of things that's what I do in order to create a relationship okay I was in a meeting on Friday um with some uh real estate colleagues and um one of the women in the meeting was talking about how she was uh calling people who had had an nood filed against them nood is a notice of default it's the first step in the foreclosure process here in California as well as

[26:48] other states that have the trustee lending system trust deed lending system I should say and you know what I liked most about what she talked talked about is she was very focused on helping these people she wasn't going for the listing he and and she you know she she said I start out the call I said I'm just calling to let you know I saw that there's a notice of default filed against your house are are you even aware that this is is there do you even know what that is right and a lot and she says a lot of

[27:24] people a they don't know and B they don't know that has been filed against them and B they don't even know what it is right it sounds scary and frankly it is a little scary because you only have 90 days to deal with it unless the lender agrees to extend right so you know she does you know a dozen of those phone calls a day maybe more 20 a day okay and her sole intent is to help the people because that's creating a relationship okay if business comes out of it great if it doesn't something will

[27:59] come down the road maybe but in the in the meantime she's demonstrated that her interest is helping these people okay and so that's what I do in working with Allied professionals accountants lawyers uh Financial uh advisers is I Look to be a resource for them so that they can work more efficiently so instead of having um you know to spend a lot of time researching some issue they can just pick up the phone to me or or send me a text message or an email and say hey do

[28:35] you know anything about this and if it's within my purview I'll say yes or I I know what you're talking about let give me uh you know give me a few hours or give me until tomorrow I'll get you an answer now if it's not something in my perview I'll do my best to refer them to somebody who can answer the question that's why I say share information and resources okay so if someone calls me um about the the sale of of a home okay that's that's currently held by an estate okay um while I know a lot about that business

[29:12] um my background in real estate was always commercial real estate so what I'm going to do is I'm going to refer them to someone I know someone that I trust who shares the same qualities as me that can advise them very specifically and and and answer their question and and do it again because they're interested in creating relationships okay finally the fourth thing you can do to build relationships is refer business so if if you've got an A you know a trust

[29:47] maybe you're creating a trust and while the trustor are alive they're going to be the trustees um but when they pass away there needs to to be a successor trustee so you know if you're working with a professional fiduciary and you think that person is is trustworthy and competent Etc so you might call them and say hey I've got this trust here's what it's about I'm looking for a successor trustee um are you interested in being named the successor trustee okay and you know assuming you're dealing with a credible professional they're probably

[30:22] going to ask you some questions about the matter to make sure it's within their scope of practice and if it is they're going to say yes and and wow what a what a great thing to by the way they're not going to get any business out of it right away presumably but who cares okay who cares it's like they they know hey you're thinking about me you're you're helping me build my practice and so I want to be able to you know return the favor the main thing is be patient and consistently contact the people you're looking to build a relationship with think about it in terms of dating

[30:59] in that sense right if you don't if you're interested in somebody romantically and you call them sporadically you know maybe once after two months and then after six months and then maybe a month L you know what what impression are they going to get about your intentions and and the and the their answer is is probably not very good okay so you want to be consistent even if you just you know periodically call and say hey just wanted to touch base see if there's any way I can help you okay um my friend Bill who's an excellent coach in the in

[31:34] in in the real estate business he says call people once a quarter okay and and and don't leave messages get them on the phone and just say you know hi it's Kevin um hadn't spoken to you in a few months just wanted to touch base see if there's any way uh you wanted to see what's going on with you and um how can I help you right and and that's that's all it takes okay but you need to be patient and you need to be consistent in your contact okay this is not a shortterm function this is building your practice for the long term okay and

[32:11] there we go I think we're right at about 30 minutes and I think that was the last slide yep so if you if you need help okay here's some ways to contact me these will be in the show notes um you can send me an email or you can post something on uh on social media I'm happy to respond to you however um it's convenient for you okay and then we got some you know legal stuff here and we're gonna go go stop share okay so that's the show for today and I appreciate you tuning in I hope you found this useful uh tomorrow

[32:49] at 1100 amm Pacific time is business lessons from the military we're starting on a new aspect of Marine Corps War fighting Doctrine translated to the business World we're going to be talking about intelligence not intelligence as in smarts but intelligence like spy versus spy for those of you who are Mad Magazine afficionados uh you know of what I speak I I I love that magazine when I was a kid okay and then on Wednesday at 12:30 p.m Pacific time is people making money and we're going to

[33:25] be talking about those annoying things called credit scores okay I'm I I imagine you've heard about them you may know some things about them we're going to take somewhat of a deep dive into them the reality is these days if you're going to be borrowing money you're going to be leasing a car um buying a house um almost for sure your credit score is going to get checked so you need to know something about them so that's that's what we will be doing on Wednesday and then 7even days from today next Monday we will be back here for trust and

[34:01] Estates weekly I'm going to have a guest um a very uh astute accountant based in the big The Big Apple New York City Von Marie Thomas and I think you will be very very interested in hearing Von Marie's perspective on the accounting side of trust and estate so I invite you to tune in and by the way you can always join us live just uh grab the Eventbrite link and get yourself a free ticket and love to have you uh especially when I have a guest love to have you join us

[34:37] live you can ask questions um I always reserve a few minutes toward the end of the show for doing that so thanks again for joining me this today I was goingon to say this morning but in on the other side of the country it's already afternoon I appreciate it very much wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and look forward to seeing you later this week signing off off as I always do Marie darling you are my bell all the best folks