The WAY to WOW Shows
Pivot or Surrender
April 8, 2025
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[0:00] Who are you? And where are you going? What do you [Music] want? Hello and welcome to Business Lessons from the Military. I'm your host, Kevin Bemmel, and we're here every Tuesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about military history, military doctrine, and the practices of great military leaders, and distill from them

[0:35] lessons that we can apply to our businesses and professional practices in order to make them more profitable, work better, be more productive. So, uh, having being a military veteran, having spent 16 years, uh, in the United States Navy during which time I worked with sailors, Marines, airmen, soldiers. uh this is my way of giving back to to you my fellow citizens a little bit of uh for all the support that you gave my colleagues and me um during that time

[1:11] and continue to give us um as I've mentioned to um numerous people in the military. We are very very fortunate to have had the support of uh our our of civilians, non-military people in the United States during the time we were in the armed forces uh because that was not always the case. So today my topic is pivot or surrender. And I'm going to be talking about uh a a battle uh that happened let's see it would be uh 160

[1:49] years ago on April 9th 1865 the battle of Appamatics Courthouse. Now, if you're at all familiar with the Civil War, you know that Appamatics is where uh General Lee uh surrendered to General Grant. Um what you may not know is uh the the surrender happened because of the uh the military actions that were going on around and and essentially in Appamatics. And so on

[2:24] on the 160th anniversary of this uh battle during the American Civil War um I'm going to talk uh first of all about what happened and then draw some lessons from it that we can apply and those lessons um that that's why the show was called Pivot or Surrender. So uh the battle of of of Appamatics courthouse in Virginia, Appamatics is in Virginia uh pitted of course the Union Army commanded by General General Ulissiz Srant against the Confederate

[3:00] army commanded by General Robert E. Lee. Uh what what was going on is um um Lee had abandoned the Confederate capital uh of Richmond and the city of Petersburg. And Lee was trying to lead his army of uh northern Virginia westward so he could join up with other Confederate forces in uh North Carolina. So he was initially aiming for Lynchburg, Virginia, where he hoped he could

[3:37] regroup and resupply. Um, unfortunately for Lee, uh, Union forces were in hot pursuit, and they were able to move in a way that they could block his retreat. And so uh um on April 9th of 1865 uh Lee's army was surrounded near Appamatics courthouse. So uh Union general uh Philip Sheridan's cavalry blocked Lee's army from the west and uh Union generals me and Or uh after whom

[4:14] by the way Fort Or is named uh closed in from the east. So they basically made a pincher movement, if you will, from both sides. Lee's army was was exhausted. It was starving. It was heavily outnumbered. Lee had just around 28,000 men. Uh the Union troops uh numbered more than a 100,000. So it was a roughly a 4:1 ratio um between between Lee and and the Union Army. So there was a brief battle uh in the on

[4:49] the morning of April 9th. Um Lee tried a final uh breakout uh attack against the Union army uh hoping to reach open ground and and escape this this entrapment. Um, initially he was able to push the Union forces back, but fresh Union infantry uh showed up, reinforcements, and uh Lee realized his his path to escape was completely blocked. So, um, not wanting or or basically coming to the conclusion that further

[5:24] resistance was not only pointless, but would, you know, result in essentially the slaughter of his men. Um Lee requested a meeting with uh Grant and they met at McClean House um at Appamatics Courthouse and they conferred and in the end uh Grant offered uh Lee um pretty generous terms of surrender um and and really they were aimed at uh healing the breach between North and South uh rather

[5:59] than than punishing the South. And so uh Lee formally surrendered his army of North Virginia and and that effectively ended the Civil War. There were a few smaller uh Confederate forces that continued to fight for a short period of time. Um they were essentially ineffective and and and so the war ended. And uh so out of this situation um I've come up with uh with three ideas

[6:36] um that that I think we need to uh we need to take into account um when we're we're looking at a a business situation similar to uh what what Lee was faced with. So the first one is is the you know title for the show know when to pivot or surrender. So Lee realized that further resistance was just it was feudal and rather than

[7:11] essentially let his army be destroyed um he he chose to surrender. Um, and there were there were several things that that led him to do so. And I' I've mentioned some of these. So, by um April of 1865, the Confederate Confederate Army was vastly outnumbered. Um, the Union Army had superior manpower, superior supplies, superior logistics. the for example the mileage of railroads that the Union had was multiples greater than

[7:49] what the South had as was the industrial uh capacity and so uh and and and at the same time Lee's forces were dwindling uh due to desertions casualties um and and there just were no reinforcements. So uh you know at at Appamatics Courthouse uh Lee Lee had you know 28,000 uh starving exhausted uh soldiers while you know Grant's forces were a wells supplied over 100,000 soldiers right uh and

[8:24] so uh sometimes um when we you know when when we are in a business situation um we may be up against a a larger uh better uh financed uh organization. Okay. And sometimes we can if we're a small organization, we can be nimble and we can um you know through various tactics sort of outflank a much larger and and

[9:00] better financed opponent. but not always. And there comes a point at which we are so heavily outnumbered and and so heavily resourced that we I think just have to stand down. So I know I was forced uh essent well forced is too strong a word but when when I had my real estate company um from the mid 80s to the mid 2000s um while when I started in business there were lots and lots and lots of uh small real estate management

[9:37] and appraisal companies around um and and and we were uh able to do business with large lenders. ers. Um, but as time went by and lenders started to consolidate, especially after the passage of FYA, the financial institutions re- reform recovery and enforcement act in in 1989, that really led to a consolidation among uh large lenders and as a result they became uh more

[10:14] reluctant to deal with a small company like mine because if I did something wrong, uh, I wouldn't have the resources frankly for them to sue me and and potentially recover their losses. And so they moved to start using uh much larger vendors. And so although for a while the kind of tailored high service um service that I gave kept me competitive uh and and the relationships that I had built kept me competitive in the end I wasn't

[10:50] able to overcome the size and resources of my larger competitors and so I had the choice of of selling out or closing ing my business and moving into something else and and in the end I ended up selling my real estate company, closing my appraisal practice and joining the United States Navy. Right? So sometimes there's just such overwhelming numerical and and resource uh you know disadvantage that you know continuing to

[11:25] go on is is only going to mean kind of a a slow death if you will. Um so um you know as as well um in the uh this in the sort of pivot or surrender category. So one of the things that uh that the Union army had been able to do was was effectively destroy uh the Confederate the morale of the Confederate army. So Lee's soldiers were many of them were weak, some even sick,

[12:01] demoralized. Um more and more desertions were happening. Um because the enlistments um that that the Confederate uh soldiers uh had were much longer. Um there, you know, they were away from their farms, their farms were failing, etc. And so it became inc and and as popular as Lee General Lee was and he was a very popular commander, one of the most popular army generals in United States history. Nonetheless, that that popularity could not overcome the dire

[12:38] circumstances in which the Confederate army found itself. So unlike what Washington was able to pull, George Washington was able to pull off um at say Valley Forge where uh you know he had uh equal troubles, a a very disheartened um you know group of soldiers though not not as certainly not as large as as what Lee commanded um but but poorly resourced, starving, sick, etc. you know, Washington somehow was able to hold them together and Lee held them

[13:13] together, but not as an effective fighting force. And so um when and then when Richmond fell, the the Confederate capital when it fell on April 3rd, so this further damaged the the the morale, the spirit of the remaining Confederate soldiers. And and so too when we when we look at our businesses and we're trying to make a decision, do we pivot? Do we in essence surrender? And when I say surrender, do we, you know, give up on a particular

[13:50] uh um you know, business strategy that we're pursuing? Um what what will be the impact of continuing to fight on on the morale of our people? If the situation looks hopeless, uh we shouldn't fool ourselves into believing that our people look at it differently. we have to give them the the um the honor, if you will, of of understanding what's going on. And so, if we're not able to really rouse their

[14:26] morale to to to really make a good fight, we may be better off surrendering or, you know, closing that business initiative and regrouping. give people a time to kind of rest and recuperate and then move on from there. So I have a situation like that right now with uh one of the um assets of an estate that I administrate where it it the the the first year of administration was was tough. It was very chaotic. uh

[15:03] the the deedent had left uh no um documents as to how things should be handled. Um some of the clients of this company were extraordinarily rude. They treated the staff very badly. And so it became, you know, my job to to go in and and straighten things out in order to maintain the value of of this company uh as an asset of the estate. Um, and it took it took a good kind of nine to 10 11 months to do that. That's how bad a mess things were in. Um, now we're

[15:40] beyond that phase. Um, but the reality is the staff needs some time to kind of rest a little bit. um you know put put the chaos behind them before I launch uh you know another major or before I I get into a major growth initiative. Okay. And now not that their morale is bad actually it's it's it's very good. Um, but if I were to push them into some kind of major marketing initiative, I think, you know, they

[16:16] don't have the energy to to really pursue it in a strong way. And so they need some time again to kind of rest up and refit as we would say, you know, in an army. Um and and we'll look to launching that initiative uh a little bit later on this year after they've had maybe about 6 months to kind of finish getting things under control, absorb all the change um and are ready to launch into the the next bold move. So I think that's another issue morale that that we have to um take take into um into

[16:55] account. And and and the finally um you know on this issue of of pivot or surrender um what one of the reasons why I think Lee was such a beloved general was he had a great deal of respect for his men um and their honor. And Lee realized that surrendering under honorable conditions would would allow his men to return home. They wouldn't be annihilated either in combat action or

[17:30] you know in in in prison camps where um the conditions could oftenimes be awful and there would be tremendous disease that could kill literally thousands. Uh and so, you know, he applied to uh Grant um and and asked that um his his his troops be uh treated uh generously and and in the event um the the Confederate soldiers were allowed to keep their horses and return home uh rather than facing imprisonment or execution. And

[18:06] uh if if you can if you you know can sort of rise above the the the political context of the Civil War for a few minutes and think about what would have happened to the southern part of this country had you know 28,000 um young mostly young men um been imprisoned or executed. What would have happened in the south? Uh it could not have rebuilt itself. um and and become a part of the country again. And and and that could have led to mass starvation

[18:41] of of women and children um and and a great deal of um of future troubles uh for for the country as a whole. And so in in this issue of uh pivot or surrender uh in the end Lee's surrendering was not an act of weakness but really it was a sign of of of pragmatic leadership and in some ways it there was you know it was a courageous act um because he accepted the reality

[19:16] of the situation. He moved to protect his men and and he made a decision that ultimately helped in the process of national reconciliation. And so we as business leaders, we need to recognize when a strategy is failing. We need to be willing to pivot or just cut our losses and exit an unprofitable venture rather than continuing to to waste resources on a lost cause. Uh it can be a very

[19:51] difficult decision to make. Uh having made that decision myself uh it it it it it's it's not easy. It it it for especially for leadership it does feel like failure but our our personal feelings generally speaking have to be set aside for the good of our organization and more specifically for the good of our team members because in the end as leaders in businesses and professional practices uh we need to

[20:27] look after the welfare of of our staff. half of our team members and make sure that they're able to take care of themselves, their families, uh, and and and our our feelings of disappointment or loss or however we might describe that, while they're real, um, shouldn't necessarily um be allowed to govern in in in a decision of whether to pivot or surrender. Okay. So, I want to take a break here for a minute and and um let you know or or for those of you who watch the show regularly remind you that

[21:03] uh Business Lessons from the Military is sponsored by the Beverly Hills Council of the UNI Navy League of the United States. So, uh, the Beverly Hills Council is Los Angeles's sort, uh, source for support for the for sea service members and for information about the military. And, uh, as part of the Navy League of the United States, our mission has three parts. It is to support, educate, and advocate on behalf of the sea services. the sea services

[21:38] being the United States Marine Corps, the United States Navy, the United States Coast Guard, and the United States Merchant Marine. So, um I I deeply appreciate uh Beverly Hills Council's uh sponsorship of this show. Uh and I invite you to go to navyleague.org or and and consider becoming a member. And if you're in the greater Los Angeles area to make the Beverly Hills Council uh your your home in the larger Navy League, there'll be a link to uh to the

[22:14] Navy League in the show notes after the show posts on uh YouTube. And I I invite you and welcome you to be a part. And and again, for those of you who are in the Los Angeles area, um we have uh we have put together uh kind of an informal event for the 22nd of May uh during Fleet Week here in Los Angeles where you can come by and meet some of the board members uh and officers of the Beverly Hills Council and and and see kind of firsthand uh what we do, as well as have

[22:51] an opportunity to engage with all the happenings during Fleet Week. So, uh again, um thank you to the Beverly Hills Council for being our sponsor. And now we go back to the show. So, we're talking about the battle of Appam at Appamatics Courthouse um during the last few days of the American Civil War. And our topic is uh pivot or surrender. And that is the first lesson uh that we can learn from uh Lee's

[23:27] surrender to Grant at Appamatics. So the next one the next lesson is that grace and defeat can lead to future opportunities. Um and and and that that too uh is is something that that we can see from how um the uh the Lee's surrender at Appamatics uh played out. So um Ulissiz Srant offered generous and humane surrender terms to Lee's to Roberty Lee's army. I think in part

[24:03] because uh you know while Lee certainly would have been defeated uh it the defeat would not have come at no cost to the Union Army and so you know you know even with 4 to one odds um there would have been many many Union soldiers um you know would have would have been wounded or killed in a in a battle um between forces of that size. And so I think uh you know Grant realized that by um first of all being willing to talk with uh Robert E. Lee

[24:41] and and and offering uh generous surrender terms, not only was Grant doing something to uh heal the breach that had been created in the country by the Civil War, he was also saving the lives of his own men. and and so um th this was important um going forward. So um some of the things that that uh Grant did uh in order to make the surrender less harsh were first of all uh Confederate soldiers were

[25:19] parrolled. So they were not imprisoned or or prosecuted for treason. um they were given essentially passes that allowed them to return home uh without being harassed by Union forces as long as they pledged not to take up arms against the US government again. And indeed that was link Abraham Lincoln, President Lincoln's aim was to uh put down the rebellion and to reunite the country. And so the terms that uh that

[25:54] that Grant offered Lee were uh a part of that. So um officers were allowed to keep their uh their sidearms and um their swords and personal baggage. Um and again you like wait they they were allowed to keep weapons. Well yes. So um whereas uh um surrender of an officer often times or sometimes meant the the the taking away from him of his sword and or pistol or and even the breaking of his sword. Um it was a it was a sign of shame to have those personal weapons

[26:30] taken away. And so rather than subject them to that kind of humiliation, uh Grant let them keep what what are called their sidearms, their personal weapons, um again under the understanding that they would not take up um uh rebellion against Union forces. So soldiers were allowed to keep their horses in mules so that they could have uh these animals available to help rebuild their homes. Um there was no uh harsh punishment. There were no executions of Confederate soldiers um despite four years of

[27:06] extremely brutal uh combat um between the two. And um given that uh Lee's army was essentially out of supplies and many of the men were were starving um Grant arranged for uh 25,000 rations to be distributed to Confederate soldiers uh so they could have something to eat and would not uh you know perish through uh essentially malnutrition. So uh why why did uh Grant offer such

[27:42] generous terms? Well uh first of all as I mentioned a moment ago, President Lincoln wanted to re reunite the country uh rather than humiliate um the the people living in the south. Uh number one. Number two, uh Grant wanted to avoid guerrilla warfare. So by being harsh on the South, he would have created a situation of an embittered but defeated opponent and that would increase the likelihood of small groups of Confederate troops. Um

[28:18] engaging in guerilla warfare, attacking, you know, small Union forces and and wiping them out. um maybe attacking uh um people, you know, in the border states, civilians, stealing from them, etc. Now, that's not to say that none of this happened. It some did happen, but it was not at all widespread. Um and finally, Grant wanted to set a a peaceful precedent um as a way to move into reconstruction.

[28:53] So um what do we so what do we learn from from this on the business front and that is that how we handle failure or defeat will may well I shouldn't say will but it may define future relationships. So let's say we've been defeated by another company on a particular initiative. Maybe we were, you know, both companies were applying or not applying but were going after the same piece of business. One company won, the other one lost.

[29:28] Well, look, that that's how it works in the world. How we behave in defeat can make a big difference. So if we behave graciously in defeat, uh the the client even though they may have selected the other company may may remember our grace and defeat and they may respect that and if something doesn't work out with the company that they selected rather than going out and and sort of you know rebidding the job they may just turn back to your company and say hey you

[30:04] know what uh I really respected the way you handled things and and so therefore uh you know we want to bring you in or we've got this other project and since this company is busy on this one we'd like to bring you in on this other one. So I think that whenever we suffer a loss or or we have to we have to surrender in a business situation, we want to do so in a way that reflects well upon us and our organization. um and and and doesn't and doesn't leave any hard feelings if possible. Now, I do

[30:41] want to make one caveat to that. If the reason we lost was because of something underhanded on the part of either our opponent or the company that we were whose business we were trying to get, then while I would still be gracious um if it were me, I would not have anything further to do with with that organization. So the the the the problem with um um using underhanded business

[31:18] tactics to win is having done it once, it becomes a habit. And it's a lot of wasted time and effort to go up against uh an unethical opponent, number one. And number two, it's very demoralizing for our our team to feel like we're having to fight with, you know, kind of one hand tied behind our back. That's I think sometimes how people feel. and and rather than risk demoralizing our people or putting them in a situation where

[31:54] they feel like they have to act unethically in order to be able to effectively compete, it's better off just not to engage in those situations. And in my experience too, uh companies that act unethically or organizations that act unethically, uh inevitably there's problems down the road. They they may not make final payments. They may argue just over payments every time one is due. They may constantly complain about the quality of the work. So a an

[32:29] unethical or an immoral attitude in business oftentimes becomes impossible to deal with. And and so I've talked in other shows about firing clients. Uh sometimes um we have an opportunity to fire uh an organization before it becomes a client and and that becomes uh that that is the most effective thing to do. But in general, uh, if we if we lose or we're defeated by an opponent, uh, grace and defeat is is the best course. And hopefully our

[33:04] opponent and the and the company who's for whose business we were vying will be equally gracious and we'll all move on and perhaps have an opportunity to work together down the road. Now I will say one of the things I most liked about the real estate business is although there were unethical practitioners uh with whom I um was confronted from time to time um in general real estate is a very collaborative business and so while I might lose out on an opportunity uh to a

[33:40] particular to another particular uh real estate practitioner in one circumstance uh you know a few months later we might be cooperating in a transaction for our mutual benefit and so there is a heavy heavy incentive for collegiality and and and cordial relations between people in the real estate business. Now do all people behave in the real estate business behave that way? No. No, for sure not. But but most do. I would say the majority do. uh and that really makes it uh much more enjoyable and in

[34:17] some cases even fun to be in the real estate business um because because that incentive to cooperate is there. Um now uh you know that doesn't mean by the way um that we should be a pushover. We can be very tough. We can be scrappy opponents. Um and and and and we you know, you know, not being unethical, but we can uh be as creative as we possibly can be uh in in in going after business and in pursuing a particular uh business

[34:53] venture or initiative. All of those are are great traits. Um but they need to be balanced against having some empathy for our team member uh our you know our employees, partners, competitors. Okay, we want to we want to foster long-term uh we want to foster respect and long-term success. And so it's one thing to be a tough competitor uh and it's another thing to be a ruthless competitor. Okay. So, so again under this issue of uh

[35:28] grace and defeat and and and sort of maintaining uh relationships um you know when we face inevitable defeat or or when we face uh the the necessity to surrender. It's good to keep in mind that how we do that um is as important and possibly more important than that we uh than that we surrendered. Okay. And finally, uh, I want to talk about how negotiating skills can shape outcomes. So, uh, Grant and Lee's negotiations at

[36:05] Appamatic Courthouse on 9 April really set the tone for the whole post-war reconstruction uh, in in several important ways. Um, so their diplomatic and mutually respectful approach uh really set the tone for what happened afterwards and especially in light of uh President uh Lincoln being assassinated not long after. you know, if if President Lincoln had been guiding

[36:40] reconstruction, it's very likely that uh reconstruction, well, I wouldn't say very likely, but it's possible that reconstruction would have worked out differently than it did. Um, President Lincoln is arguably uh one of the two greatest presidents of the United States of all time. uh he he had certain very unique uh abilities. The way he could speak to people, um the way he could express a a sense of care about their individual well-beings as well as our collective well-being. Um

[37:17] and so his his uh you know his his murder uh had a um a substantial effect on the post civil war era. uh and and his his successor um Andrew Johnson, the first president to be impeached. Uh he did not have the skill set of Abraham Lincoln. Um and then Ulissiz Srant became president next and uh Grant worked hard to pursue a reconstruction

[37:54] uh philosophy of diplomacy and and respect and and and rebuilding. Um, unfortunately for for Grant, although he was a very uh ethical and uh individual, uh, his his skill um was as a general, not as a politician, and his administration was was was plagued by um bad behavior um among uh some of its members. And but but nonetheless, the tone was really set at Appamatics for what if it had been uh

[38:32] diligently pursued what would have been a sound uh um model for reconciliation between North and South in the United States. So um so a couple more things about that. First of all, the terms that General Grant offered General Lee really became a model, a sort of a blueprint for future Confederate surreners. So when uh General Joseph E. Johnston uh surrendered in North Carolina and General Edmund Kirby

[39:07] Smith's uh forces surrendered in Texas. Um they were they were offered similar terms to Lee's army uh at in Virginia. Um again with an eye toward reconciliation and and also uh helping uh hopefully helping uh prevent a prolonged uh guerilla resistance. So, um and and and again by um offering this this um generous surrender terms, allowing Confederate soldiers to return

[39:43] home um and and seeking reunion rather than uh retribution. Um first of all the union avoided the Union army avoided a sort of a prolonged occupation of the south which would have meant union soldiers would have been away from their would have been away from their families for a much longer period of time would have been much more expensive for the federal government uh to you know to occupy the south and would have delayed the rebuilding not only of the south but of the north. So it wasn't as

[40:18] if the North suffered no damage. Of course, with hundreds of thousands of men uh in the Union Army. Uh farms were were not attended to diligently, manufacturing uh really focused on that which was necessary to fight the war. and and as the United States moved into a peacetime footing, so there was a need for manpower uh both on the farm and and in factories to rebuild the country. And so um the the the generous surrender terms were for the benefit not only of the

[40:55] south uh but for from but for the north as well. So um uh so I I mentioned already that the uh the south was u you know permitted to rebuild um and that was critical so that there could be an economic recovery in the south by the end of the civil war. The south's economy was in tatters. The um union navy had blockaded the south pretty much throughout the civil war. the South was unable to export most of its cotton, its

[41:30] tobacco and although there were willing markets uh in in uh Great Britain uh primarily for cotton for example and although occasionally blockade runners would get through uh very little there was very little commerce between the between the south and uh overseas uh buyers. Um and that too contributed to essentially the destruction of the south's economy which of course was part of the north's war strategy was to was to strangle econom

[42:06] strangle the south economically. Um, and if you if you recall, um, I think a couple weeks ago I did a show about the battle between the USS Monitor and the CSS um, uh, Al Alabama, better better known as the Marry Mack, the first clash between uh, Iron Warships. Um part of that uh was um because uh having the the the Marry was essentially effective at uh a um uh um not avoiding but breaking

[42:43] through the uh the Union's naval blockade and that's why it was so dangerous. So, um that that the mer that the monitor uh proved so effective meant that the the uh Union Navy was able to maintain that blockade. And so um by um um you know through um the negotiations that uh started with uh Lee between Lee and Grant um the the uh groundwork was laid for the economic revitalization

[43:22] um of of the South and um more specifically to Lee because he was able to negotiate surrender with honor. Um he he retained his influence uh to promote unity. Um had Lee been arrested or worse yet executed, he likely would have been a martyr to the Confederate cause um and and prolonged southern resistance. And so in a in a a very smart move by

[43:57] General Grant um in essence embracing uh Lee as uh the the hero that the South believed him to be, treating him honorably and generously. uh he he made Lee an ally in the rebuilding of the United States uh rather than making him again a martyr to the southern cause. uh and uh as well um although there were the the the the radical Republicans in

[44:33] Congress wanted very very harsh terms imposed on the South um as a result of the Civil War. uh the negotiations between Grant and Lee really set a a a standard uh that prevented uh harsher terms from being imposed on the South even by Congress. And so although there were carpet baggers uh who came into the south who who did some pretty horrible things um all in all um what did happen during reconstruction

[45:10] was not nearly as bad as what um radicals in Congress wanted to impose. And that was in part due to how Grant looked at surrender, the terms he negotiated with Lee and and and and setting the course of the nation on a path to reconciliation. So um what happened post-war um because of of how because of the course that that uh Grant and Lee set? Well, among other things, African-Americans were freed, uh, leading to the 13th, 14th, and 15th

[45:46] amendments. Uh, the Confederate states were reintegrated into the United States. Um, and uh um, and there was very little overall retribution. And so I think the the lesson we take from this as business owners and business leaders is uh even though we are facing defeat, we still need to approach negotiations in order to lessen the sting. Not just not really for our own

[46:24] sake, but for the sake of our organization and especially for our people. There's nothing dishonorable about essentially negotiating uh you know uh lighter terms. Now um in a business okay um we may not uh we're probably not going to face the kind of situation that you know the the Union and Confederate forces faced at Appamatics. However, we may face a situation where after months of hard

[46:59] work attempting to get a piece of business, we're faced with a prospect of of not getting that business. And so, we can turn to our we have we're forced to turn to our people with a message. Now, one message can be, you know, I I I spoke with the prospective client and and while they chose the other the other organization, they were very pleased with what we did and they're very open to working with us in the future, right? And and in fact, I've negotiated another

[47:35] opportunity for us to uh look at potentially getting some work from them, right? So that can be that can really soften the blow and and move on into a much more productive uh uh future both for our both for your organization as well as the one um that uh you know to whose whose business you know you lost or or didn't get anyway. So I think all of these need to be taken into account and even though we're faced with uh having to surrender a a business

[48:11] initiative um how we negotiate that surrender both kind of with our own people and with the other players that might be involved can set the tone for how things work in the future. And so we should look for opportunities to um to mutually benefit even in the face of defeat. So those are the those are the lessons that that I take from uh the battle of Appamatics Courthouse and the surrender of General

[48:46] Robert E. Lee to General Ulissiz Srant. uh and and you know it's always hard to face uh defeat. Um but uh it's really a sign of the quality of us as individuals and and especially leaders and the quality of our organizations how how we face it. And I I I've faced it myself. Um and uh I I I hope hope I've always done it at least reasonably well. Um, and I've seen other people had to have to face it and

[49:22] I hope I was uh, you know, gracious at those moments as well, although sometimes not. Um, and I and I've certainly been in situations where um, having defeated another organization, they lashed out at me. Um, and okay, you know, if that's what they're going to do, that's what they're going to do. and and what they've told me is something very very important and that is I don't want to have anything to do with them in the future and I know for myself uh in my business and in the uh businesses uh for which I'm

[49:58] responsible to administrate them I want to make sure they're the kind of business that even as we go down in defeat people look at us and say wow you know these are these are good people they're fine people. They were tough competitors, okay? They lost out this time, but you know what? I'm looking forward to engaging with them again in the future. So, that's that's the the show that I bring to you today. Uh, and I I thank you very much for joining me, especially those who are watching live. Tomorrow at 10:00 a.m.

[50:33] Pacific time is my show uh people making money and we're I'm going to be talking about dressing for success. So do do you notice I I have kind of my nautical outfit on today, right? Even though I'm talking about the armies, but I've got my, you know, yellow and blue or blue and gold, right? Those are the colors of the United States Navy. Uh and and uh you know, I have my my tie on, my my rep tie. Um, so tomorrow we're going to be talking about how in in today's business world do we dress for success. And then on Thursday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific time is

[51:11] my every other week show Jiggers's Place when we talk or where we talk about everything not related to business and finances. And this Thursday is just uh a couple days before uh the major Jewish festival of Passover or sometimes it's known as Pesak. And so I'm going to be talking about biblical commandments. And this is a a subject I've spent quite a lot of time thinking about uh examining.

[51:46] And I have some thoughts for you that I I think you will find interesting. So, I invite you to join me for a cocktail and a chat on Thursday at 5:00 p. p.m. Pacific time. And then next week on Monday at 10:00 a.m. is my show uh Trust and Estates Weekly. And then I'll be back uh a week from today with the next edition of Business Lessons from the Military. Let me actually real quick, let me see. I think I have a guest, right? Uh nope, no, no, no guest next week. Um but uh but hopefully we'll see you uh a week from today. So once again,

[52:23] thank you so much for joining me. Wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do. Marie, you are my bell. Courage at all times, my friends.