The WAY to WOW Shows
Trusts & Estates Learning Guide
November 24, 2025
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:10] Who are you [music] and where are you going? What do you want?

[0:26] >> [snorts]

[0:29] >> Hello and welcome to uh Trust in Estates Weekly. Sorry, I had a little technical glitch there. Um I tried a new way of starting the stream and I'm not going to try that way again. So, uh, I'm your host, Kevin Bemel, and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about probate and trust administration, estate planning, and all of the subjects uh that relate to that. So [clears throat] lately, I've had a number of people talk to me about potentially becoming, uh, a

[1:05] professional fiduciary or otherwise getting involved in, uh, trust and probate administration. And so, um, I previously did a show on getting a license in California, uh, which is the only state that that requires a license. Today, I'm I'm going to talk more broadly on where you can learn to administrate trusts and probates. So it's I I I've never met anybody who said, you know, gosh, when I

[1:41] was a kid, when I grow when I when I thought about when I grew up, I wanted to do was, you know, administrate trusts and probates. Never ever heard that from anybody. Certainly, it was not the case with me. I didn't know such a thing even happened. Uh a and even when uh I I had my real estate company and was involved in a lot of trust and and probate matters, it didn't really dawn on me that there was an individual who oversaw the administration. I

[2:18] certainly knew what an executive was. Um but I didn't know that there were people who were not who who were not essentially related to the deedent um and therefore became an executive or an executed by the court to do this function. uh that was something I learned uh sort of later in my life and and then determined based on my knowledge, skills and experience that it would be a good fit for me. So [clears throat]

[2:53] there's no college degree that that I'm aware of. Uh certainly if there was one, I I don't think it would be worth the cost to get it. uh you know even an undergraduate degree is is relatively expensive these days and so much of being a good administrator comes from experience. So like becoming a a competent plumber or a competent electrician,

[3:29] the person with whom you serve, and I'm going to put this in air quotes, an apprentice is, I think, far more important than the formal instruction that you may get. And that's because overall, okay, the the formal instruction that I've taken I I thought was of mediocre quality, number one. And number two, it didn't really teach me how to do what

[4:04] I do. I already knew how to administrate trusts and and probates because I had done very very very similar work as a business owner, as someone who had a business management and property management and asset management company for 20 years. as someone who had dealt with the uh who had been a law clerk uh right out of college and a bookkeeper and someone who had dealt with lawyers

[4:39] who handled trusts and estates. It's all that experience that essentially taught me how to do what I do. Uh you know, the classes I had to take to get my license. Eh, I mean, frankly, it was a matter of sitting through the classes so I could prove that I had taken the pre-licens educa, that I had filled the pre pre-licens education requirement and therefore was qualified to take the

[5:15] license exam. That's really all it was. and the education, the continuing education that I've done uh has has well with with one exception has has not been good at all really. I mean um and and I'm interestingly enough I just realized I didn't put this educational provider on on the list. Uh, and that's because most people think of of it as a um a pre-licens

[5:52] uh um school in essence and that's Kaplan. So, I did um I think all or almost all of my continuing education for not my most recent license renewal, but the one before that with Kaplan because um I had gotten uh several security licenses and so I I had access to uh Kaplan's materials and the classes that they had I thought actually were were good quality. Um they

[6:31] the people teaching them were not just knowledgeable but they were also good teachers and the courses were organized for actually conveying information. So one of the problems with a lot of the education that's available is number one the people teaching it are not teachers they're practitioners and that's fine but teaching is a different skill from pra from being in a practice. So having the knowing the pedagogical techniques,

[7:06] being able to logically present information, all of that is different than being able to do the actual tasks or the actual duties. So you know, the old saw is those who do do those who can't teach. Um that's not exactly true. Uh I think that um that uh in some cases people like people who are not successful in acting so then they

[7:41] end up teaching acting. The reality is that being successful as an actor or an actress oftentimes doesn't have to do with one's skill in in acting. It has to do whether one's gotten the breaks, has the looks or whatever, right? And so uh you know just because somebody uh so so the reverse is is also true. Just because someone is uh you know a I'll use the example of acting great a great actor doesn't mean that that person is

[8:16] qualified to teach acting. Okay, they may act purely by instinct or mostly by instinct and so they don't have any ability to convey uh techniques and and the ability to bring emotion to a role. Okay. The same thing is true in the fiduciary world. Okay. Uh there are fiduciary I I assume that the people whose courses I've taken were good fiduciaries. I hope they were. I hope you know the educational

[8:51] providers didn't select in you know incompetent or you know poorly competent people to teach these courses. It's just they didn't have a lot of pedagogical skill. So they don't have you'll find very little, you know, tonal ex tonal inflection in their voice. So it's very hard to concentrate after a while because they kind of drone on like this and there's nothing to keep you engaged and and you know and things like that.

[9:26] So, uh, so you know, Kaplan now from from the standpoint of getting a license in California, Kaplan won't work. Okay? They're not, to the best of my knowledge, an approved provider of pre-licicensing education to get a California professional fiduciary license. Having said that, the requirements for a continuing education provider for a professional fiduciary license are

[10:01] actually quite broad. So any provider of that any pro yeah any provider that is approved to deliver continuing education for insurance licenses, real estate licenses. In fact, I think it's any professional license in California is qualified to provide continuing education for a professional fiduciary lency. That's how I came to take the the Kaplan courses. Now, they don't have an unlimited number. My recollection is

[10:37] they had somewhere between maybe 15 and 20. Some of them were short, some of them were quite long. All of the ones that I took were were good. and and and so I'm I'm mentioning them because like I said, I forgot to put them on on my list. Uh the so the ones and and Kaplan is not recognized in in the like I said, it's not recognized as a place to go learn how to do a a professional activity. It's it's known as a place one goes to

[11:12] fulfill a pre-licicensing qualification and then go, you know, take the exam and hopefully pass the exam and go on to practice. So, um uh uh having said that and my recollection is now that I think about it, I I think I paid $200 for access to these courses for a year. Um, and and that's that's pretty inexpensive. And so if you're especially if you're outside of California where you don't need to have

[11:49] a license and you're looking for a good alternative to just learn what trust and probate administration and estate planning is all about. I encourage you to check out Kaplan uh because again they they are their their courses are good and again my recollection is they were they were pretty inexpensive uh in relation to you'll see some of these alternatives that I'm going to talk about uh now um that that are

[12:25] looked upon as where you go to learn how to administrate probates and trusts. Okay. All right. So, uh, in California, the most well-known education provider is the profession professional fiduciary association of California known as PAC. Okay. So PAC is a professional organization and indeed I was a member of PAC when originally a student member uh and and I I did my pre-licens education through PAC and I then

[13:02] continued my membership once I got my license. Um, and then I I dropped my membership. And and the reason is because what I found is most of the members of PAC are oriented toward conservatorships and guardianships as opposed to what I do, which is administrating trusts and estates. And so a lot of the discussion is around taking care of people. And I I don't do that. I don't want to do that. I don't

[13:38] have the background or expertise to do that. A lot of the people who have a professional professional fiduciary license that who handle guardianships and and conservatorships I think come out of the the health care industry former nurses and such as opposed to someone like me where my background is is almost 100% business with some you know entertainment show business stuff kind of sprinkled in, production stuff sprinkled in. Uh so um they um the the the subjects that uh

[14:17] PAT covers at least in in theory are trusted in trust administration. They have an int introduction to trusts and trust management course. Ethical billing practices for fiduciaries. Gosh, you know, right? Court accountings and fiduciary accounting basics. um not not a worthwhile course. Tax tax returns and record retention for fiduciaries, you know. Yes, but I mean um there's nothing special there. Special needs trust administration,

[14:53] not a good course. Medicare, medical, social security, VA benefits, again, conservatorships, probate guard, how they interrelate with trusts. I mean, investment principles that actually, now that I think about it, that was a reasonably good course, but that was because it was done by uh a couple of investment professionals as I recall. And then the California fiduciary licensing exam review course. So, uh and and then there what they don't mention is there's a whole bunch of courses on essentially taking care of people. So, the pre-licicensing

[15:30] education program costs $1,500 uh for the full program. It's self-paced. Um you I I believe you have 36 months to complete it. And basically, you're just watching a bunch of videos. There's there's no tests or there wasn't at least when I went through it. and and you you know you get a a completion certificate once it once the online viewing system sees or determines that you've watched the entire course and you know that that's that's kind of it. So you can take individual courses. They

[16:07] typically cost around $75 to $100. thereabout uh or $75 I should say for for PAC members and about $100 for non-members. Um honestly not not worth the the the price of the course. Um they're unfortunately they're not. Um PAC also has an annual conference. Uh it's usually I believe around May um uh in the year and there's tiered pricing but it's around I think

[16:44] $6 to $800 to attend uh around more like $600 for members 800 plus for non-members. Um and I've never been to the conference. I scheduled to go and then uh I ended up being hospitalized and I wasn't able to go. I know people who have gone uh they are mostly nonfiduciaries who go to try and get business from fiduciaries. I know I spoke to one commercial real estate agent down in the San Diego area who went and I think in

[17:19] the end he didn't find it to be particularly uh valuable. So, uh, membership in in PAC costs, uh, around $300 a year. I think like $350 for a full member. A student membership, however, is only $50. Of course, to have a student membership, it doesn't really mean anything. Um, you'll probably get a student membership in order to get the pre-licicensing program. So if you want to become a licensed fiduciary in

[17:54] California, PAC is the way to go. Okay. Uh but in terms of the quality of the materials, again just just not not very good. Okay. Um the next organization is the Independent Trustee Alliance known as the ITA. So, the ITA is a national organization. Okay. And full disclosure, I am a member of the ITA. I think my membership is up for renewal um now. And um uh

[18:32] it it builds itself as the professional association for independent trustees and fiduciaries. Okay? As opposed to corporate trustees and fiduciaries. So you don't see really people who uh own trust companies per se, okay? It's more people like me who are individuals who do this kind of work. It's a small organization. I I think currently

[19:08] there's around 225 to 250 members somewhere in in that range. And I did my most recent continuing education with through the ITA because I was a member and it was it was coste effective just like PAC. Okay. The courses that it offers are basically you watch a video and then the system detects that you've completed watching the video and so it gives you a certificate of completion.

[19:45] Now ITA actually doesn't have its own um sort of back-end support for its educational programs. actually run through a a separate company that does continuing education for lawyers and other types of professionals. And and that's actually a good thing because the platform does work pretty well. It's a little hard to get set up on it at first. It I finally had to get in touch with the president of the organization. I happen to know his name also is Kevin.

[20:20] and and have him intervene on my behalf to get that that set up. But once it was set up and I got access, it was it was pretty easy to use. Um the the courses are okay. Uh they're they're frankly not as good as Kaplan, but they are significantly better than PAC. Uh, I would say the presenters of the ITA courses, while I don't believe they're chosen for their pedagogical skills, still exhibit a better ability to teach

[20:55] than uh the the people that that PAC is is using. uh and and some of the courses I I had I did learn some some practical uh ideas on how to improve how I how I do my practice and some of them were just interesting like there's there was one course the the most memorable course that I took was on dealing with pets and and and and and pets either being an air right I put that in again in air quotes

[21:31] because pets can't really be in heir or providing for uh pets being taken care of through one's estate plan. Uh the woman who did that course I thought was pretty interesting and she had a lot of practical experience which was good but she also was able to explain all of these concepts in a in a pretty clear way. So the the topics covered in the ITA's programs include uh trustee education uh fiduciary legal duties, ethical duties, uh trust litigation, investment

[22:08] management for trustees, trust operations in different administrative environments. Um there is some courses on risk management. Uh and and then just if you you you have to be a member of the ITA in order to access these classes and if you are then there are occasional networking opportunities. Um at one point uh Kevin the president Kevin Kevin Button was doing quarterly you know sort of informal virtual gettogethers. I thought those were good. It's I it's

[22:44] it's a shame he didn't continue doing those. Uh and um and there is an and and then the ITA has an annual conference at well as well. Most of the ITA's educational uh uh courses are actually recorded at the annual conference and then the company that handles the the uh continuing education for the ITA, I think, puts them in there. it puts them in their system. So, uh, an associate member, I believe, is about $200 and

[23:19] then the ITA has a certification program. Um, you know, they're they're working on building it up. I don't perceive that there's any particular value placed on these certifications by the industry as opposed to so prior to uh real estate appraisers needing to be licensed. There was a professional certification issued by the appraisal institute known as the MAI, member appraisal institute

[23:57] for someone who is doing commercial appraisals, which is the kind of commercial the kind of appraisal work I did when I had my real estate company prior to joining the Navy. the being an MAI was recognized as being at the top of the commercial appraisal uh profession. Okay. Now, when real estate appraisal licensing came in, that kind of wiped out the MAI designation as as having value. So you will hear MAI

[24:34] still insist that they are the most qualified professionals, but that is not true any longer. And for what it's worth, I was one of the people who worked hardest to [laughter] to make uh to to essentially get rid of this idea that an MAI uh member of the appraisal institute was was somehow more qualified than someone who had a uh what's called a certified general appraisal real estate appraisal uh license. Uh and it was because

[25:09] the um the standards that one had to meet in order to get uh the certified general real estate appraisal license were essentially the same as becoming an MAI except that um it wasn't one's peers that were deciding whether you became a member. it was the essentially the staff at the end at each state's real estate uh appraisal licensing board that made that decision. Okay. So the

[25:44] certifications offered by the ITA they have not reached the level of recognition that for example the MAI had at one time and and and so you know will it will it ever reach that level you know who knows um you know there there are supposedly people in the organization working on that I do think it's it's a it's a bit of a stretch uh and That's because the profession is too diffuse. So there are lawyers who do what I do as part of

[26:20] their legal practice. There are individuals who do what I do. There are companies, trust companies that do what I do. And there are also business managers and other people who probably manage trusts in estates without actually marketing it that way. So there there's so many different people involved in in this aspect of the business that I I think it will be difficult for the ITA to you know sustain this idea that that their certification somehow uniquely qualifies

[26:57] people to perform those duties. Okay, let's take a quick break come back and talk about more educational sources. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step.

[27:32] Magnum Properties, Inc., turning property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396 or visit magnumprops.com. So, this is Trust and Estates Weekly and I'm your host Kevin Bemel and I'm talking today about where you can learn how to perform the duties of someone who administrates trusts and probate. So, I mentioned Kaplan and also uh PAC and and

[28:09] the ITA. Uh these are kind of well Kaplan of course is a huge organization. PAC and the ITA are our small organizations. Uh probably overall the highest quality education in this field is offered by of all organizations the ABA, the American Bankers Association. Okay. Uh not to be confused with the American Bar Association which which I will talk about uh in in a in a little while. So the ABA has a trust and fiduciary

[28:45] education program and uh it's it's very robust. You can get training, you can get certifications and in terms of uh a certification that may mean something uh the ABA at right now at least really has has cornered that market. So, um, they have something called a a CTFA, a certified trust and fiduciary advisor. That is a set of initials you will sometimes see after

[29:20] the name of people like me. Uh, now in my case, um, uh, I don't carry initials after my name. There was a time when I tried to string a whole bunch of initials after my name. I don't really do that anymore. I just note in my email signature for example that I'm a California professional you know fiduciary uh you know in in the uh 90s late 80s and 90s it was it was derigger to seek to have a bunch of initials after your name and I may have told this on this

[29:57] show before I don't recall but uh at at one point in order to increase the number of sets of initials after my name. I called up my mother and I asked her if I was her favorite son and she said, "Well, you're my only son." I said, "I understand that." I said, "But am I your favorite son?" And she my, you know, we kind of did a couple of laughs, right? you know, my mother finally uh,

[30:32] you know, agreed, "Yes, you're my favorite son." I said, "So, you're telling me, your son, Kevin Bemel, that Kevin Bemel is your favorite son?" She said, "Yes." I said, "Great." And then I put another set of initials after my name, PFS. And when people would ask me, "What is a PFS?" I would say, "It's Fellain's favorite son." Because my mother's name was Fain, right? And by the way, there was no denying that I was her favorite son, especially since I'm her only son, right? So, my sisters would have to duke it out because there's two of them. Uh

[31:07] so, uh you know, it gets a little bit crazy with the initials, but you will see you will see people who do uh trust and probate administration oftentimes have two, three, even four sets of initials of different kinds. Again, I I I I'm unconvinced that these days th those kinds of designations are lent the kind of credence they were, you know, 20 years, 20, 30 years ago. So, um the American Bankers Association has uh what they call the wealth and trust schools.

[31:42] Um and they they have various levels. Level one is sort of a foundation of trust and wealth education. And level two is for more advanced practitioners and trust professionals. And uh they also do on-site programs. Um which I mean virtual education is fine. Uh but there is nothing like inclassroom education when it's well done. It's far more impactful. There's it allows for immediate interactions between teacher

[32:18] and student and and it it just because we learn not only uh uh verbally uh visually but but also there's an aspect of learning that comes through just physical interaction. uh in inclassroom education is is is still the best. So now the the cost of the ABA's programs is is pretty high. So they they can start at you know$25 to

[32:53] $3500 and they go they go up from there. Some of their programs are even I think8 and $10,000. So is it worth it for you? I it depends on your goals. Okay. So, um, you know, they're, uh, I haven't taken any of their courses yet. Um, I've thought about it and, you know, for various reasons, I didn't want to spend the money and take the time. Um, but I think at at some point in the near future, I am going to take some of these courses

[33:28] because my I know someone who has taken the courses and he says he's a fellow um professional not not well he's a fellow professional fiduciary just he he doesn't have to be licensed because he lives in Massachusetts. Uh but but he speaks of the courses very highly and and uh you know you're you're talking about people in the banking world um where I hesitate to say this but the the kind of professionalism

[34:05] that one sees um and because banks are so heavily regulated the kind of professionalism they have to exhibit is is pretty high. Um, so banks are one of the most highly regulated financial businesses in in the country, in the world for that matter. And so they're used to being very detailed about how they do how they handle things like compliance and and and discharging fiduc fiduciary duties,

[34:41] that sort of thing. Okay. So uh the the topics that are covered in the various uh ABA courses they include fiduciary and trust activities in banking, tax retirement and estate planning, insurance investment management, ethics, uh client engagement, regulatory changes, so planning and a fiduciary framework and then also like with the ITA, I think there are there are because the ABA is first and foremost a professional association as well as one

[35:17] of the most powerful political lobbies in the country. There are networking opportunities there as well. Okay. And and um the uh the the you know uh live courses that they do are are pretty intensive. I guess they'll they'll do three to five day sessions over three weeks. uh and and the the curriculum is is is very uh similar to what I just mentioned. Now unlike these other organizations

[35:52] to get to get the certification uh to get a certification from the ABA, you do have to pass an exam. Okay? So you take all you you know you study all this material but then you still have to pass an exam. Okay? And I I I to me that seems like the right way to do it. Okay. It's one thing to sit through a bunch of classes. It's another thing to sit through them in an engaged enough way that one can then turn around and pass an examination. Now, I do recognize that there are some people who take tests well. I'm one of them. I've always

[36:28] benefited from that. There are other people. I I'm I hope I'm not telling a family secret. My older sister just does not test well. She's very smart, knows her material, but she gets terrible test anxiety. And so she it's it's really a challenge for her to pass a test. So I'm not suggesting that uh just because one can pass a test one is uh more intelligent than someone else. only that having to pass a test sort of raises the stakes of how closely uh someone has to

[37:03] pay attention and and how diligently one works in order to absorb the material. So, um I'm not going I'm not going to get into the the individual requirements for the different certifications, but uh there I as I recall there's maybe three different relevant certifications and and they require anywhere from 8 to 15 courses. the courses are all rigorous and uh uh so you know all of this uh all of this feeds into

[37:39] um the the robust nature of the American Bankers Association's uh coursework. So, um let's see. Uh yes, you can get a certificate in in trust administration. You can become a certified trust and fiduciary advisor. Uh and I believe there's one other one and I don't have the name of it here in front of me. Uh but um uh you know uh I I'll I'll put in uh links in the show

[38:14] notes to these different organizations so you can check out their you know their their information directly and you can see you know which if any fits your needs. Okay. And then uh let's see what else do I want to talk about with this Okay, I you know I think that that really covers it as far as the uh American Bankers Association concerned. Okay, so the other ABA is the American Bar Association. So if you're not

[38:51] familiar with how the American Bar Association works, so it's it's a huge organization also. It's a professional association but also a very powerful lobbying group. The ABA is the national associate the national association and then there are state bars and local bar association. So there's the California Bar Association and then here locally there's I think the Los Angeles Bar Association and there's a Beverly Hills Bar Association and all of them offer educational

[39:28] programs at different levels. Okay. And they do it primarily for what's called CLLE, continuing legal education, because like me as a licensed professional fiduciary in California, lawyers have to complete a certain amount of continuing education each year in order to keep their law license active. Now within the bar associations there are various sections that focus on

[40:03] different aspects of the law. So uh when I was when I had my real estate company and I was doing a lot of work with uh um specialty lenders in particular credit companies and assetbased lenders. So, there was, I assume still is, a section in the California Bar Association that deals with what's sometimes called structured finance. And I know I went to I don't know if it

[40:38] was a meeting of just the structured finance section or of the California Bar Association overall. Uh, but I I I it was up in I think it was like Monterey or California or something like that and it was it was a great meeting. Met attorneys by the scores. Uh, and and so, you know, from my standpoint, it was a great networking opportunity. Now, I had a booth. Um, I think I was actually working a booth for another organization if memory serves. Uh but in any event

[41:14] when it comes to trust and probate administration and estate planning so there is a section typ you know it it may vary from state to state but it's going to deal with sort of real property trust and estate law. It's some some iteration of that. Okay. and the then um the law it's typically lawyers who are doing classes although sometimes it's non- lawyers who come in and do education on their specific area

[41:49] of expertise. I believe my friend Bill Gross, who's a one of the top probate real estate brokers here in California, I think he mentioned me he'd done um a couple of educational programs for one of the local bar associations. And the fact of the matter is even though he always says I'm not giving advice from a legal standpoint and he's not Bill's knowledge of the legal side of probate real estate is it's as deep and broad as any lawyer any

[42:24] lawyer who specialist specializes in that area whom I've ever met. And part of the reason is because that's all Bill does. Well, it's not all he does, but it's it's been the uh major focus of his real estate practice for the last, I believe, six years, if memory serves. And so, because he's so deeply immersed in it, he knows it very, very well. both the the what the law says because anybody can pick up the legal the California probate code and read it but also how the law works in practice in

[43:00] court hearings among people etc etc. So, uh, if you know, I would encourage you to check out your local bar association. That's probably the best place to start or your state bar association because probate law is a statebystate um, stateby-state thing, right? It varies state by state. And so it if you're going to practice in uh West Virginia, you know, learning how to uh administrate uh trusts and estates

[43:38] in cal from from a California perspective, it's not going to be nearly as useful as it would if you learn from a West Virginia perspective. Now there are concepts that pretty much overarch every state uh but nonetheless you want to you know be specific uh I if you can so uh you know to to be to be a section membership typically is not particularly expensive especially if you're not an attorney you're going to be an associate member maybe $100 $200 something like that and then oftentimes um there's not

[44:15] an additional charge uh for a local association to to go to a meeting. Pardon me, I had to sneeze. Um and and so if you know you go to the to the uh monthly meeting of the section and they'll they usually have uh an education portion for that meeting and you can sit sit in and learn um if you're talking about at the state level. So now maybe you're going

[44:52] going to attend the state conference and usually there are education programs for for different sections of the law. um they they overlap. So you wouldn't be able to go to you know all of them for you know trusts and estates and also for you know some other area of the law. Um and because lawyers these days tend to specialize their practice. Okay. And at that point um you may need to be a member an associate member of the state bar. Plus, you're going to have to pay the conference fee if it's not if the conference isn't being held where you

[45:28] live and it's too far to drive back and forth. You have hotel, transportation, all that kind of stuff. So, that's a bigger uh financial commitment. Uh but having said that, uh the um the information you get I I suspect is quite good. I haven't been to any of the bar association trainings on trust and estate law. I I have when I was in my with my former real estate company, I did sit sit in on some of the educational programs done by the

[46:04] structured finance section and they were very good. They're up there in quality. Well, they're they're approaching the quality of the American Bankers Association, I suspect. Okay. They're certainly on a par with uh Kaplan only that Kaplan is giving you a a a a structured course of study whereas a a class that you would take through a bar association. It's it's going to be on a discrete topic. It you know the class may last for an hour, an hour and a half, something like that. Um and so

[46:41] it's it's going to be fairly limited in scope. Uh but uh there there is a somewhat of a meshing of skills uh between being a lawyer and being a teacher uh because a lawyer has to be able to present a case in a cogent way whether it's just presenting it to a client or presenting it to a court. And so again, I I I I found in general the bar association courses that I took to be uh you know, good. Uh so and and and

[47:18] you know, as a more um economical alternative to the American Bankers Association, I would say, you know, check out check out the ABA um the American Bar Association. Okay. Um, beyond that, actually, let's let's let's take another quick commercial break and then I'm gonna and then I'm gonna uh or sponsor break and then I'm gonna wrap up. Probate and Trust TV, your curated source for the most useful and insightful content on estate planning and trust and probate administration,

[47:53] featuring standout professionals like Bill Gross, Paul Bralet, James Cunningham, and yours truly. Whether you're a lawyer, accountant, real estate professional, or working on your own succession plan, this channel helps you quickly find the clearest, most practical content YouTube has to offer. Subscribe now to Probate and Trust TV. Spend more time learning, less time searching. So, we're back with Trust and uh Estates Week. Trust in Estates Weekly. I'm your

[48:28] host, Kevin Beml. Uh so one other um organization I will mention is the National Association of Estate Planners and Councils. So uh this is another professional association. I don't have any firsthand experience with it. Uh it does offer a credential um an AE accredited estate planner. uh and and it's they tend to be multidisciplinary, meaning there's attorneys, CPAs, financial planners, maybe there's some professional fiduciaries there as well. Um I think a

[49:05] friend of mine was telling me about a local chapter up in Pasadena and and he he he goes to the meetings there and he finds them quite good. He he's in the home health care industry right now, but he's looking to become a professional fiduciary. Uh so, uh I you know, I can't really comment uh firsthand on the quality of any educational programs they do. Um, but I would say that uh, you know, like some of these other smaller associations, there's, uh, probably some decent

[49:41] networking opportunities there. And much much of your ability to actually practice as a fiduciary is going to come from having a network of people to whom you can reach out when you have questions or are not sure how to handle a particular uh matter that's before you or a particular task you need to do. Okay. And so then like for myself, I have a a group that of of fiduciaries and and lawyers and such to whom I can reach out and I can

[50:17] say, "Hey, this is what I'm dealing with. What do you think?" That kind of thing, right? Nobody knows it all. Okay? You just have to accept that you're never going to know it all. It's far too just the amount of of of knowledge is far too great. And no matter how thoroughly you immerse yourself in the field, people are going to find new ways to uh you know to surprise you basically is the best way to put it. And so part of getting your education is also

[50:55] building your network of people to whom you can look or with whom you can consult in order to be able to keep building your knowledge and your experience. Okay. And so I I I suspect that um the NAPC, National Association of Estate Planners and Councils would be, you know, a potentially a good place in which to do that. Okay. And there are other sort of educational places around the American College of Financial

[51:30] Services. They have an estate planning and taxation certificate. As a fiduciary, while you may be involved in some estate planning, it's not going to be in most cases a large focus of your practice. So, while knowing people who do estate planning can be good, especially if you're young and they name you as the successor trustee in a lot of trusts, eventually you're going to get a whole bunch of engagements when the grtors and original trustees of those trusts pass

[52:05] away. And so, now you'll take over as trustee and you'll administrate the trust. Okay. Um, but that that's kind of a long-term perspective. if you're an older uh you know guy like me, you know, that's probably not a a good business building uh perspective. So, uh you know, how do these different organizations shape up? So, just kind of in summary here, um, if again, if you're going if you want to get a California professional fiduciary license, PAC is basically the best way for you to

[52:42] do the pre-licicensing education. Just kind of bite the bullet, pay the 1500 plus dollars, sit through the classes, take your exam, and then, you know, on you go. uh ITA is is building um from a from the standpoint of continuing education for a lency like me. It's pretty good as a as a place to learn. It's pretty good. Okay. And uh hopefully they're going to build more networking opportunities as well. uh the American Bankers Association,

[53:17] probably the best educational uh best educational uh courses available, but also the most pricey. Okay, so you're probably talking minimally several thousand um and maybe as much as something like $8,000 to get their top certification. Okay. Now it is it is recognized in a lot of circles and so may be worth it. American Bar Association in terms of quality pretty good quality good good networking opportunities

[53:53] and uh you know not super expensive. Maybe if you go to the national uh you know American Bar Association convention something like that may be you know expensive to do. Um, but if you're sticking with your state bar association and your local bar associations, probably, you know, moderate cost, you know, at the most. And and then, um, other other than those, um, I would say again, think about Kaplan. Uh, Kaplan is, uh, to my recollection pretty

[54:28] moderately priced. Courses are good quality. You'll you'll learn a lot. And then and and I think in in a way you'll be able to take that learning and apply it to your practice and and and so you have that foundation to help you along. Especially if you're going to be working for someone, it'll be useful to have that foundation so you can understand why the person for whom you're working is doing things the way he's doing them. Okay? So, it'll give you a perspective

[55:05] um that you you wouldn't otherwise have. Okay. Um, and look, I've said this many times on this show. There's lops of opportunity in trust and probate administration. [clears throat] Really, across the country, there is trillions upon trillions of dollars of wealth that is going to transfer from one generation to the next over the next 10 or 10 to 20 years. Okay. The baby boomers. I'm I'm among the youngest of the baby boomers and I'm in my mid60s. Okay. So, you

[55:43] know, older baby boomers are going to be around maybe another, you know, 20 years. Okay. Younger baby boomers like me hopefully, right? As they say, another 30 years, maybe 40. My, you know, who knows? But my mom is in her, well, I shouldn't say that. She may not like that. But anyway, uh so uh um there's a tremendous amount of wealth that's that's moving generationally and and whereas attorneys in in in the past attorneys handled the administration side, a lot of attorneys

[56:19] don't want to do that anymore. They they they're happy to handle the legal side, but the fees they can get as a lawyer are higher than the fees they can get for the administration side. And so they would rather focus on the legal side and have someone like me handle the administration side. And so there's lots of opportunity there. And so I, you know, if you have questions about that, um, pee feel free to post them in social media. My email address will also be in the show notes, so you can reach out to

[56:54] me directly if you have any questions. Uh, I will be happy to help you out if I possibly can. And who knows, maybe, you know, we're heading toward the end of the year. Maybe your one of your goals for next year is to become a probate and trust administrator. and uh you know um become part of what is uh a a very rewarding business. There are lots of frustrations, don't get me wrong, that's true of every business, but there are also some truly great rewards in helping

[57:30] people who oftentimes are so bewildered uh by the process um they're just not able to get through it on their own. And that is really where uh we we add a lot of value uh to to society. So I thank you very much for joining me today. Appreciate it very much, especially my live viewers. Tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show, Business Lessons from the Military. And then Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. is a special edition for Thanksgiving, which of

[58:05] course is Thursday of this week. Uh, I'm I'm I'm going to do the third the Thanksgiving uh episode early, a day early, so then you can focus on preparing for your meal and spending time with uh family and friends and I I guess watching football, right? Or the I love Lucy marathon. That's what we used to do uh when I used to um uh spend Thanksgiving with uh my my family. So, wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell.