The WAY to WOW Shows
Independent Trustee Alliance
December 9, 2024
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:04] and where are you going what do you [Music] want hello and welcome excuse me hello and welcome to trust and Estates weekly I'm your host Kevin bemel and we're here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time although uh as you may be noting by the time on your clock um it's it's a little bit later than 10:00 a.m. and that's because I got stuck in court this

[0:39] morning uh for for a few minutes and fortunately my guest today Kevin Quinn uh was was able to be flexible and and start a few minutes late so I don't want to do a a big long beginning here I want to get right into uh talking with Kevin but but I I I would be remiss in in not noting that you know today is the Kevin and Kevin show and so it's it's you know twice as good as it normally would be so so so Kevin thanks so much for coming on trust and Estates weekly this morning sure well I'm very happy to be here with

[1:17] you Kevin and appreciate your invitation to join you today so uh so you know as I said when we were prepping for the show I'd like to start out with um giving you the opportunity to tell us us a little bit about your background how you you know got into the independent trustee business because I think that's particularly useful for uh especially those folks who are considering um you know considering this as a career but also for people who work with independent trustees to understand the kind of background that people

[1:52] have okay well I'm often asked how did you get into this work are you an attorney and no I'm I'm not an attorney uh but I have been doing this work as a independent or private trustee uh for 12 years and the the way I got into this was through life experiences not through what anyone might consider a traditional uh career path so the first 25 years of my working life I was in the IT world and I was

[2:29] trained as a a systems engineer and computer programmer and then uh project manager program manager certified uh project manager for large scale software development and network implementations and worked with several companies and what I what happened was I got to a point in my career where I was was ready for a change okay now this might not seem like

[3:06] the most natural change to go from the IT world to this world but right about the time I was ready for a change uh my father-in-law had passed away and then less than a year later my father had passed away and so there was a little bit of uh internal you know what do I want to do with the rest of my life uh questions going on inside me but um what happened was my going back

[3:44] 30 some years my grandmother who was twice widowed and my father who was an only child uh had put together what we would Now call her estate plan and she set up some trusts she moved some things over that dad started managing kept some things herself that she was managing started some trusts that that I was administering and when she passed away everything went right along according to

[4:21] schedule and then when dad passed away everything just fell off the rails well if the plan had been going along for so many years you'd say okay well why did it fall off the rails now after several decades of of plan being well executed and the story is is like this um Dad had gotten sick and and he wasn't going to get any better and I was I remember so clearly reviewing the the documents one time

[4:56] visiting him I okay now I noticed that you made a change here and and you put Mom in as your successor replacing me where I'd always been there for years and years and he said yeah you know I she'll be able to handle it and she won't be able to do anything without uh leaning on you anyhow okay so just smart you know salute smartly and say yeah it's your decision no fine um

[5:31] so after he passed away know things went off the rails because uh mom had not been prepped manage what they had and we're not talking by any stretch of the imagination you know got Rock's money or anything but you know it was enough that you know needed to be handled more than casually um but she got herself in trouble in a hurry okay yeah some Bad actors some some people praying and you

[6:06] know and just a things just really got bad quickly and it took about I I don't know maybe a year whatever it took to work through this with her with with her attorney her financial advisor uh to the point of getting her to say okay she's ready to resign his trustee in in favor of me coming back in as trustee so it was through that process uh coupled with being at a point in life where I was looking to change

[6:42] careers and do something that was more meaningful to me that I said well if this can occur uh in a situation where there's been a wellth thought out and well executed plan for nearly 30 years um and then one misstep just really threw it in the ditch I bet there's going to be a lot of people who find themselves in this situation uh and they don't even know what's going to hit them and I thought you know doing this I

[7:22] frustrating as it was dealing with family and so on the the actual work I said well I like doing this this is this this is something I want to do well okay apparently there's no reason I can't do this for other people so this is what I'm going to do and I hung out my shingle so that's how I got into it now from a from a skill perspective you know what what skills am I bringing to the table well sure I haven't come out of a a Trust Company not coming out Law Firm or

[8:01] anything but I found that my uh many years of professional project management uh really enabled me to slide into the trustee seat very easily because those same skills were required I'm just using those same skills in a different environment so the communication skills the uh being able to look at the big picture and pull in the people that you need to

[8:37] pull in um let everybody understand what their piece of of the puzzle is you know a wave the tong keep the the band playing together whatever metaphor you want to use all those things were just instantly applicable so from a skills or or things that I do perspective you know that wasn't a real real stretch but know I became very happy doing this so qu question you you you said

[9:12] something a moment ago that really piqu my interest you said just salute smartly and proceed I'm just curious were you in the military before or uh no oh okay no um never have been and the reason I ask is there's a lot of people coming out of the military who um you know have a a pretty deep project management background sure and they're looking for something meaningful to do right and and as a military veteran myself um it's

[9:51] you know how you described your journey to becoming a private trustee really sounds like something that you know people like I say people coming off of active duty they could really Embrace I'm I'm curious you mentioned that there was some um some skull duggery some praying on your mother when she was a trustee how how did seeing that kind of um attempts to take advantage of people how did that if at all figure into your

[10:26] decision to you know pursue this this this new career path or this different career path I don't want to call it new different career path sure the it didn't play into the decision uh to hang out my shingle as it were but it definitely played into my determination uh to take care of try to protect my mother uh and what dad had had worked for for so many years you know he had you know he had told me take care of her well okay yeah I'm going to

[11:03] do that to the best of my ability I never dreamed that it would be something that uh planted a seed that you know has has grown into what know has been an entire second and hopefully last profession um so it's an interesting uh thought you have about you know people coming out of the military and you're right many do have good strong project management skills um hadn't thought about that before but

[11:40] I can I can see that for for someone who's really uh looking around you know and what they want to do uh certainly I think to do this work you have to really enjoy a lot of variety in your day MH there are things you have to to do every day or every month but there's always a lot of variety in this work every day yeah yeah for sure so you know and when people asked me the the the question I asked you you know why did you get into this um and what do you like about it

[12:16] and one of the things I tell them is like you I I don't I'm I was not an attorney in a previous life um uh I was a law clerk but not an attorney um and I I didn't go to Business School or anything I went to architecture school which is kind of like a project management School in many ways um what I find is I don't need to have the legal knowledge I don't need to have the accounting knowledge because I'm working as part of a team and I'm gonna have an attorney on that team I'm gonna have an accountant on the team I'm kind of the team captain and I'm making sure this

[12:52] machine works as smoothly as possible in you know fulfilling its its you know duty if you will to to the to the beneficiaries obviously within the the rules that are set up either by the trust or or or by the court so um certainly true uh you know there's um there's a lot of uh things that you pick up as you go through and and you learn and and you grow and I I do agree

[13:27] with you that uh you don't have to be all those other things and in most instances you don't want to be those other things matter of fact my professional errors and omissions uh policy says I shouldn't be those other things right that that's part of the part of the risk management is you know do what you're do what you do and have the people who have the specialized skills do what they do and it's your job as trustee to make sure that you are uh bringing in the

[14:05] right people at the right time when you need the assistance right so you have the as trustee as you well know you have the responsibility for making sure things happen but that doesn't always mean that you are the one who has to do those things but you are responsible for bringing the right people in in to assist because if it goes wrong that's on your shoulders that you pick the wrong person to come in and and help you right with that particular

[14:40] client so so let's pivot now a little bit and let's talk about you're you're one of the founders of the independent trustee Alliance so um talk to us if you would how did that come about and and and how did you you know get involved in in and and starting this new organization I think it's what about 2 three years old now oh no the uh the ITA as we call it was founded actually in 2016 so oh okay we're eight and a half going on nine years but this is the

[15:15] story of of how the ITA came about um when I got started in this business I and this is advice I'd give to anyone who's U building sort of a practice I was doing a lot of heavy networking I was doing three or four networking groups a week and then probably 90% of my time was was out networking with people so I would talk with people about what it is I was doing I'm independent trustee private trustee

[15:51] I'm you know administer trusts I administer Estates and probably 85% of people I would would talk with would would just look at me like I had six heads and three tails and said I I had no idea what you're talking about but but good luck you know good Lu that uh another 10% would say ah okay uh I understand what you're what you're

[16:27] describing I understand understand what you're doing I don't know anybody I can introduce you to to to help you further down the road but at least I understand what what you're talking about okay and it was at last probably 5% of people uh who would say okay got it understand what you're doing I see the need now help me uh help me get to that next little rung up

[17:03] the ladder of comfort make me more comfortable that I can introduce you to my clients and and my professional peers okay as I'm in the state of Texas and uh in the state of Texas as is the case in Most states except for California Arizona uh it's a wide openen profession if you're willing to take on the personal risk of being the trustee and being personally liable and you know can be sued as trustee U then you're allowed to to do

[17:40] the work and so California of course you got the professional fiduciary licensing and Arizona is doing some of that now but that's really it so it was okay well how do we what's now how how can we get people over that last hump of saying okay this is this is legit this is on the on the up and up and I'm willing to introduce you to other professionals so what what's that missing piece out here and I

[18:15] realized okay oh there there's no real uh industry advocacy group if you will for independent trustees so uh through another organization I had met Dan Felix who's out of Chicago a professional trustee and we started talking and know that that was the Genesis of of creating the independent trustee Alliance of course margarite lorens came on board very quickly with

[18:51] us and and some other professionals that we knew came in early to help um build the organization so about the first year or so we really did not uh advertise that the independent trustee Alliance was in existence what we did was we we first defined our ethics and best practices because we said okay we number one we want to protect this profession so that it doesn't get a black eye so

[19:27] that you know it can grow because we all believe very strongly that this profession needs to grow um and number two we said okay we don't need to wait on any uh governing body or or panel or something to to tell us what's uh important about this work and uh come up with their own idea of a licensing or or whatever so we created certified independent trustee and Master Certified independent trustee

[20:03] designations which are the O the only certifications available in this profession a certified independent trustee that you have to have been doing this work for a minimum of five years professionally outside of a a bank or trust company really and and not just for one family but for for multiple families or multiple clients um five uh five of those you know five trusts five years and a minimum of five

[20:38] professional references that we can check down and and we do a Master Certified is essentially the same but doubled 10 years experience 10 different trust minimum 10 professional references uh so that in the macro is are the certification requirements of course there are some more specifics for each but in the macro that's that's what it means and we've been asked often you know okay will the certifications will will there one day be a time where know

[21:13] there's a set curriculum and somebody can take a curriculum pass the test and become certified don't know if we'll get to that point don't know if we want to take it in that direction or not even if we did there will always be an experience component and a reference component to it uh not everybody who has applied for certification has been accepted because we we really are jealously trying to to guard that um I say

[21:48] frequently uh when it comes to the ITA and uh getting the word out to other professionals we really really want number one the the profession of independent trustee to be as well known and ubiquitous as that of an attorney everybody knows what an attorney is what the job is everybody knows attorneys specialize in different facets of the law and everyone has a real good idea of when they need to consult with an attorney and we want independent trustee

[22:23] to reach that same level of awareness not just amongst profession na but amongst the general population okay and in conjunction with the certification we want it to get to the point where one day a professional looks at the client and says you need an independent trustee and that independent trustee needs to be ITA certified what that certification to become and remain the gold star standard for the

[22:59] industry so it's interesting because uh in in my one of my former professions I was a real estate appraiser and um if you're familiar with an organization called the appraisal Institute which is now is and and has been for quite some time I think it's part of the larger sort of um National Association of realtor sphere but in the in the 1930s when Real Estate appraising was first starting to professionalize some real estate appraisers got together with very much

[23:34] the same intent that I think you and your co-founders had which was we we want people to understand what what a professional real estate appraiser really does and we want to create a a situation where people who are committing fraud or doing bad work can be identified a apart from the people who are committed to doing a professional job so they created a designation called the mai um member appraisal Institute and it sounds like oh member pay $50 and you join but

[24:09] that's not what it was it was very much based on experience training um agreement to adhere to a a code of ethics um and until FIA was passed in I think it was 1989 when especially when you talked about a commercial appraisal appraisal I should say an appraisal of a commercial property it was referred to as an maai appraisal because that was the gold standard um and it was only with the Advent of a national appraisal licensing regime that was imposed on each of the

[24:45] 50 states that the the appraisal Institute and the mai designation lost some of its luster um and and as someone who never held that designation and who actually been benefited from appraisal licensing I will say that um in some ways it was a shame that that designation got eclipsed because it was appraisers um taking responsibility for you know our own profession um and and were uniquely able

[25:20] to see who's really doing the things that ought not to be done so and and and it worked for basically you know 60 plus years almost 70 years so um you know very much in line with the history of why professional organizations were created that that's how I see the ITA very much in that in that in that history well sure the things that you described are are very important to us protecting the profession

[25:56] uh weeding those people who are The Bad actors and not letting them give the professional black eye and also the training is very important to us we want people doing this work to be properly trained and sure a lot of a lot of this training is on the job training there no no substitute for experience erience but anyone who comes into this

[26:33] is their second or third career uh has a lot of of skills already and you know can find it to be an easier transition than they they might imagine but through the independent trustee Alliance uh oh half dozen times or so a year we'll we'll uh record webinars for topics that we believe are important and interesting to our members that uh they're not getting elsewhere and uh we do our annual conference in

[27:11] May of each year where know day and a half two days of of real instruction on on things that are topical and important to people doing this work as well as um interactions with peers where it can really pick each other's brains and know find people who are good colleagues to know who can help you when you need help and vice versa so getting the education out there is very important um but we also did

[27:48] things through ITA that we thought were important just to support the people working in this profession because so many are Solo practitioners or or small office so we offer access to individually underwritten health insurance um dental vision um errors and omissions insurance available um things like that uh that can be difficult for

[28:24] somebody running a small practice to be able to get access access to MH so we really want ITA not only to promote the profession not only to set the standards but to also always be there to provide tools and resources for the people working in this field that hopefully they're not able to find elsewhere uh because they were put into the ITA by people doing this work and gee I I wish I had this or

[29:01] I wish I had that so okay we make it part of ITA and and as I understand it the membership of ITA is not just independent or private trustees that you have other professionals who are involved in trust in state Administration estate planning Etc would would you talk to us you know about that and and and you see that aspect of the organization well we often say membership is available to anyone who

[29:36] wants to see this profession grow so we're very happy to have attorneys or members financial advisors Insurance professionals real estate professionals family office advisors those people who uh the trustees need to know and who need to know the trustees so it's not uh it's not a case of you know ex exclusivity to where only

[30:12] independent trustees are members where you have the just the general regular membership level and then the other two membership levels are the certified independent trustee and the Master Certified independent trustee so that's it the the three levels of membership uh we just so want to see this profession flourish and we want people to know that this profession is out there so anyone who wants to join ITA as a as a member as an associate

[30:49] memb is welcome to join and you know get uh get involved and know just help spread the word and see what this is all about so um I know this is going back now um a number of months ago um you sponsored an event you called it a like a hanging out around the water cooler event basically water cooler talks right yeah water cooler talks and I I you know that was the first I I had joined the

[31:24] ITA just a few months before that I think that was the first event that I attended and I will say that I was I was very impressed because um everyone there was very committed to as you say seeing this Prof this profession flourish but also the spirit there was not one of competition but one of cooperation and since then um I become um you know friends with another uh independent trustee who who lives in Santa Barbara

[31:59] which is about an hour north of me it's actually where I grew up um and um Kaaya was actually a guest on the show I think a week or two ago and and it's been a it's been a terrific um opport relationship for us because I I know I had a a a question about something that I hadn't dealt with before and from my talks with K I knew he had and so I was able to reach out to him and he was just completely open and giving with you know with helping me with that um and you

[32:35] know as as you mentioned so true most of us are are sole practitioners and so we can't turn to a big huge staff in our office and say Hey you know who's dealt with this because when I turn around all I got is you know things here on my you know partition behind me so to be able to have colleagues um that you know that I can run things by um just you know to get their perspective on it is I find for me is one of the most valuable things and and I know there's a there's a water cooler talk coming up um I I

[33:10] think later this week if I'm not mistaken that that I'm looking forward so those kind of periodic somewhat informal opportunities really to me um set the Hallmark for what the ITA is all about so and you know thoughts on on the sort of collegiality of of the organization it's intentional that we remain collegial yet I'm always uh surprised at surprised very

[33:46] pleasantly at how much that Spirit Reigns and uh the extent to which people who get involved uh actually pitch in and have those uh open conversations and um pick each other's brains share information the water cooler discussions I think are very important just like you observed so many are Solo practitioners and you're just not in an office with colleagues where you can know discuss and cuss what's

[34:23] going on and um you know so the water coolers are for that and then at the annual conference uh that's been consistent feedback as well that the attendees uh are really in that same uh mindset of of just really wanting to have the conversations with their colleagues uh matter of fact the the last morning of the annual conference at least for two a two-hour block or so is

[34:58] dedicated to nothing but open roundt discussion a little facilitated but uh just a room full of of people in this industry uh just discussing Hot Topics or you know there's a there's always a lot of uh uh has anybody encountered this before and and how did you take care of it you know what worked and what didn't work and the feedback has always been very positive about that so uh that's really

[35:33] important to us uh that we always have that openness yeah so um we're actually we're actually come because we started late we're we're coming up on our our our time deadline unfortunately but um just I want to give kind of like you know final final thoughts on um how the the ITA can benefit people who are involved in uh Estates trusts and probates um you

[36:12] know I if if you want to I can make the Shameless pitch if you will you know some people are a little bit shy of doing that but but as the president of the organization I suspect that you know that that that you know this is you know part of part of your uh you know your role but why why should people join this organization we were talking um before we went live for a few minutes there's about 225 members Nationwide in the organization um our goal uh is to have a thousand members by the end of next year

[36:48] so you know we're looking to basically quadruple the size of the organization and and and that means uh demonstrating to a lot of people people the value of being a part of this organization so what what do you see as being sort of the core tenants if you will in in in the the value proposition of being part of the ITA well for the individual practitioner it's putting some muscle behind you okay it's giving you access not just

[37:23] to to an organization where uh we working so hard to keep everybody's reputation Sterling and that has the certifications and the ethics and everything but also access to find out where the other peers are where are the people like you that somebody needs to to know and you and and become a a colleague of become a professional friend of uh so for the individual it's it's creating

[38:00] that environment uh Virtual Office if you will uh virtual company might be a better uh somewhat better terminology uh for professionals and for individuals and families uh it's really about giving them uh you know just the the knowledge that if I if I engage somebody who's involved with the ITA if I engage a private

[38:37] trustee uh who's an ITA member I'm getting somebody who is really committed to this as a profession somebody who has some skills and knowledge I'm not hiring Uncle Ned because Uncle Ned's never had a job a day in his life uh it's hiring it's finding it's it's getting access to the people who are qualified and have the skills in knowledge so many attorneys for instance uh you know they just they just

[39:13] don't know that this is an alternative for their clients where they can you know if if there's a couple sitting at the with the attorney and creating estate plan and document well you know who's going to be the successor trustee and who's going to know hold your power of attorney or you know anything like that you know when when they turn and look at each other and shrug their shoulders well that's when those attorneys need to say let me tell you about the independent trustee Alliance and you can go out to the independent

[39:49] trustee Alliance click on that find a professional button and search for somebody in your area who does this professionally and is committed to this profession so in a you know in a very macro way that's the the propositions the value propositions uh we got a lot of work to do this whole profession is a a field that that really is never been plowed okay and often times oh you get

[40:27] get the question well what is an independent trustee and and my favorite answer is you know when it comes to what an independent trustee does the services provided and really what is involved and it's those of us working in this profession who get to Define what this profession is so really it's it's what we say it is because we're the ones doing the work we're we're defining we're plowing this field okay and there's a lot of lot of work to be done but it it's good work it's

[41:02] meaningful work it it's work that really U it it's not just meaningful to the practitioner but it's meaningful to the clients and the people that we serve and you know as well as I do know when you get those clients who are just so grateful because who's going to be helping them from this standpoint has been such a heavy burden on them and now they have somebody who's willing to do it and not just willing to do it but does it professionally and knows what they're

[41:37] doing you've seen the relieved looks come over their face as well as I have and it it's gratifying and you know we're always mindful of of the responsibilities that we're taking on to our clients so it's uh you know you got to be committed to do this work but if you are and it it's great yeah well and and that's that's a great note on which to uh to wrap up the show so so Kevin again thank you very much for for being on the show today I

[42:12] appreciate it um and um I'm gonna I'm gonna have you hang tight I'm going to do a quick wrap up and then maybe we can talk for a minute or two offline but for those of you who are interested in joining the ITA or learning more about it you can go to uh trusty alliance.com or and that link will be in the show notes after this episode post on our YouTube channel so you can click through and you can you can see in Greater detail um what Kevin has been talking about today and and and I I will tell you as as someone who has committed to

[42:49] helping the ITA grow and Thrive I and and who has looked for um an organization like like this within this profession and talk to others who were looking for this kind of organization we all we all came to the ITA and and said yeah this this is the real deal so um I I encourage you to join to get involved um I'm going to be leading an effort um Kevin mentioned margarite Lauren um I'm working with with margarite um we created something called the ITA search

[43:25] party which is we're going to be we're a group that's going out to looking for new members and if you want to be an ITA search parier um and and work with us to to grow this organization and have a real hand in creating ever more so defining ever more so what the independent what the private trustee is all about um there's no better place than you could start than by like I said being an ITA search party or and if you want information on that feel free to contact me directly uh my my email

[44:00] address social media and such will all be in the show notes and would would love to have the opportunity to talk to you about that so that's that's our show for today real quickly tomorrow at 10: am uh all Pacific time is my show business lessons from the military and the topic is just what it sounds like and uh we let's see the show for tomorrow I'm trying to remember the topic uh yes um so I'm going to be talking about um one of the classic military texts it's called on War by Von

[44:35] clausewitz and Distilling business lessons that you can use from that text and then on uh Wednesday at 10: am is my show people making money and and this will kind of dovetail on what Kevin was saying a minute ago because my topic is uh continuous building of skills and knowledge in in today's rapidly changing Business and Professional environment your only protection against being rendered obsolete by AI or whatever else is coming down the pike is to be mindfully and intentionally looking to

[45:12] keep your skills your knowledge at the top of your profession so we're going to talk about that on Wednesday so Kevin One Last Time thank you so much for coming on the show today really appreciate it for all of you out there we we had a number of people uh watching live always great to have you on with us I appreciate it and wishing you all a wonderful rest of the day signing off as I always do Marie darling you are my bell courage at all times my friends