The WAY to WOW Shows
From Combat to the C-Suite
September 15, 2026
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:02] Today on Business Lessons from the Military, my guest is Robert Sawyer, author of From Combat to the Seauite: Leadership Lessons to Help You Build a Business with Purpose. [music] Who are you and where are you going? What do you want? Hello and welcome to Business Lessons from the Military. I'm your host, Kevin

[0:37] Bemel, and I'm here every Tuesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about military history, doctrine, and leadership practices and then distill from them lessons we can apply to our businesses and professional practices. So today I'm very happy to introduce you to a new friend of mine, Bobby Sawyer. Uh Bobby is as I mentioned in in the uh sort of you know teaser to the episode. He's the author of the book from combat to the seauite and you can see why I

[1:12] would want to have uh Bobby on the show. his book fits right in with the the whole, you know, gestalt of what we talk about um on business lessons from the military. And and I would I would add, you know, Bobby uh is a Army veteran um and and you know, you know, I'm a Navy veteran, but you know, we're going to get along for today's show. [laughter] So, Bobby, uh thanks so much for uh coming on on Business Lessons from the Military today.

[1:44] >> Appreciate you having me, Kevin. Looking forward to the conversation.

[1:46] >> Absolutely. So, so start out if you would and and and give us some, you know, a little bit of background about yourself so that viewers can get to know you and and and see, you know, ho how you came to uh to write this book.

[2:01] >> Yeah, absolutely. Um, so my my uh journey in the military started when I was at Auburn University and I uh earned an ROC scholarship uh which was very nice of the army. they pay for school and then I got to get shot at for a few years which I guess is a fair trade [laughter] in the grand scheme of things. Um so yeah in in the army uh I was a engineer uh attended engineer officer basic course at Fort Leonardwood. Then I was uh assigned to the second armored cavalry regiment out of Fort Pulk, Louisiana and uh we deployed to in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom from March 2003

[2:36] uh until July 2004. Uh and while there I was a a combat our combat engineer, platoon leader, then transitioned over to executive officer of that same company. Uh redeployed back home uh and at which point I I my wife and I at the time girlfriend decided that we were going to get married. Uh and we were in the unique position to pick where we wanted to live. So we moved from Fort Hood, Texas to Charlotte, North Carolina. Uh and that's really when my business owner or entrepreneurial journey began. uh started a home building business with some college

[3:11] buddies. Um then the housing crisis happened and so that that went down the drain unfortunately but you know learned learn things in the in the process.

[3:19] >> Sure.

[3:20] >> Uh then I decided to go to law school. Uh I just and then that's what I did from 2008 to 2011 uh and really drew upon uh you know project management discipline applying myself to the the rigors of law school. Uh once I graduated law school, I went to work for a law firm. Didn't really enjoy what I was doing. So that led me to what I currently do, which is estate planning and probate and essentially helping families protect their legacy and plan for uh the eventual passing of of members of the family. Um and then in 2015, uh went out on my own and joined

[3:57] with a law school colleague to form Johannes Sawyer, which did residential real estate and the estate planning thing. Uh and then about six months ago, we split ways. Uh and uh completely amicable. We were just kind of on two different paths. Uh and so Sawyer and Associates and still doing the same thing. Uh on a personal level, uh my wife and I just well this past I'm sorry, we're coming up on 21 years of marriage. Uh we have Yeah, it was uh we we have three kids. Uh a 17-year-old and boy girl twins that are 13. Uh, and when I say the when the twins came along,

[4:34] we've had our fair share of bumps in the road. It's certainly been a uh it we the commitment to the marriage is is really what's made it work. Um, but yeah, we it's it's been a journey. uh what led to writing the book is I realized

[4:48] >> so before we get to that if I can interject a question um and I'm curious about this because uh you know in my career um I've seen a lot of lawyers get into business because for various reasons you know the law I'm they just you know I think they they stop enjoying the practice of law andor they see you know more opportunity and being in the business world in your case it was kind of the opposite direction. So talk if you would uh for a couple minutes what what were kind of the the

[5:26] factors I guess or the thinking that um led you to decide well I'm going to move out of the business world in not that law isn't a business of course it is but but you know out of the um you know home construction business I understand you know that was that was a tough thing you know crash but but specifically what led you to choose wanting to be in the law as opposed to, you know, some other kind of business in which you might have gotten involved?

[5:56] >> Uh, that a great question and it's been an evolution to be honest because, you know, spoiler alert up front, it's been kind of come full circle is I I went to law school with the idea of wanting to be a lawyer, you know, practicing law, helping people. It was always it was always an interest of mine uh through high school and undergrad. Um, and that's what when I graduated law school, that's that's what I thought I wanted to do. I want to go be in court, litigate, you know, fight for, you know, my client's rights, all that sort of stuff.

[6:23] >> Um, and I came to the conclusion while I was there that I I didn't really see a future for myself in that particular firm. Great great guys, great firm. I appreciate that. But really, in order to build the life I wanted to build for and provide for my family, I realized that I was going to have to go go be out on my own and be be an entrepreneur. Um, and that led me back or not back. So, that that led me to the realization that uh I'm more of an entrepreneur than a lawyer. You know, most lawyers you talk to tend to be uh not great businessmen

[6:58] or not great business people. they don't they don't necessarily have an entrepreneurial spirit to them or or it's not it's not as developed as mine is probably a better way to say it. Um, and so it's it's been a it's coming full circle from being a business owner, growing a business to learning the law and and what I've learned in law school, the the analysis, the way to assess problems and risk, all that stuff is certainly applicable to the business world. But where I find myself now is I function more as a CEO than you're, you know, a practicing lawyer. I that Yeah.

[7:34] >> Okay. Yeah. And that's that that certainly makes sense. Uh like I said, I just find that that that's kind of an interesting question and it you know that that sort of coming back to your business roots. Yeah, that that definitely that definitely uh makes a lot of sense. Okay. So now um you how long have you been practicing law?

[7:56] >> Uh so 15 years. I've been a lawyer for 15 years. Uh and so it's been uh it's been interesting. [laughter]

[8:03] >> Yeah. And and so and so I I I interrupted you when you started. Let let me uh bring up the book so people can see it real quickly here.

[8:13] >> Okay. So so this is the book uh from combat to the seauite leadership lessons to help you build a business with purpose. So what was what was the impetus to uh you know to to write this book?

[8:26] >> So um in the you know from 2015 to 2024 I was more or less a soloreneur. Uh you know it was my me and I had a part-time parallegal helping me out. Yeah. I had a business partner that and he ran the real estate side of things, but as far as the estate planning, probate side of things, that that was it. Um, and I came to the realization that I was not really growing my business. Uh, and further developed or I remember learning that if if your business isn't growing, much like in your personal life, if you aren't developing as a person, then you're going backwards or dying or or not really taking care of you're not not

[9:01] living up to your fullest potential. Um, and so that led me to like, all right, take a step back, figure out what I want to do with my business or what I want to do with the business. Uh, and that that led me to start growing my business. And as I was growing the business, I realized that I was using uh the the leadership, the management, the project management skills, uh you know, people management skills that I learned as a platoon leader and executive officer and applying them to growing my business, hiring the team, being strategic about how we do things. Uh and so that that really led me like, well, I should and

[9:37] then combination of that with wanting to help veterans out. Uh, one thing I hit up on in the book is I think a lot of veterans don't realize the full potential they offer to you their their own employees or when they're on their own. Uh, or they're they're short they're not thinking big enough. And so part of the the reason I wrote this book was to encourage veterans to think big and build the life that they want for for themselves and their family.

[10:01] >> Yeah, that makes sense. I'm going to switch back to this uh screen. One of the common uh I I when I first got off of active duty um I worked with uh people transitioning out of the military helping them find their first uh you know post-military job. And one of the most common um comments I guess I got was uh that you know this was particularly true among Marines but but uh to a certain extent among uh soldiers as well is [clears throat] I'm just a trigger puller. I don't I don't I don't have anything that you

[10:38] know they want uh that people you know in in in business want. [laughter] I always found that to be just a mystifying concept. I mean, I get it. You know, trigger puller. Yes. Okay, fine. Right. You know, yeah, probably nobody needs you to be able to fire, you know, an M16 and put rounds on target at, you know, 200 yards or whatever it is. But, uh, there was that's actually a very small part of of being in the military. So,

[11:09] >> yeah, go ahead. Yeah, please.

[11:10] >> No, I didn't mean to interrupt you. It really is. And I I had uh, you know, similar or very similar experience. My job in the army as a combat engineer was was essentially to kill people and break things. Um and much much like Marines are uh or blow or blow them up and yes, none of those things are really applicable to the civilian world. Um and and so the but that's losing sight of the forest for the trees. If you look at what the army or any military position teaches you, it's uh focusing, you know, selfm motivation, discipline, uh partic

[11:45] once you get to leadership roles, it's how to manage people effectively, how to communicate effectively. Uh and e even in the context of combat, ultimately what you're doing is motivating and leading people to do something that is against their their their self-interest, against their life. And that translated to the civilian world. Obviously, you're not leading motivating people to go out and and uh conduct conduct war, but you're still motivating them to for a higher purpose, right, for for the the company's benefit or whatever the current project is. And so, that's really where the veterans s

[12:20] shine. And there's a whole subset of skills that come along with that. Uh, you know, as far as, you know, being able to plan, being able to stay on mission, being able to, you know, say no when it's not part of your mission. Uh, all those are things that are, uh, ingrained when you're when you go through military training, particularly uh, once you get to the the leadership levels.

[12:41] >> Yeah. So, talk if you would, h how did you end up organizing the book? Um because you know for people who are in the military you know we know the lingo you know we we know the environment right so um we can we can pick up that book and um and and I think you know understand it um for people who are not familiar with the military environment other than maybe you know through movies which [laughter]

[13:18] they're they're not they're not demonstrative of reality in a lot of cases. Right? [laughter] So

[13:24] >> they are not they are not

[13:26] >> right. So for for for you know for that which is of course the largest you know segment of you know of of of our um you know of our nation right veterans make up maybe six 7%. So, h how is the book organized to help them um understand and absorb the the the lessons that you're offering?

[13:51] >> Yeah. And so, I I do try to keep the military lingo to a minimum uh in it. But, but if you're if you're a veteran and you're reading through it, you're certainly be able to to pick up on the concepts that I'm I'm putting down or or or drawing on. Um and so it's really you know what I do is is I take examples or experiences I had while being while in the army uh and say okay this is you know this is what we did in the army this is how it's applicable to the civilian world um and so just an example of that uh is the op order right any any trigger puller if you will know knows

[14:27] what an op order the five paragraph op order that tells you how to do anything in in the military or at least in the army uh I imagine that the Marines have something similar if not the exact same thing. Um,

[14:37] >> yep. They have op words. [laughter]

[14:39] >> Yep. Yep. And so, you know, I take the the five paragraph op order, you know, situation, mission, execution, command and control, uh, and signal, and I apply that to the real world. You know, the situation, you know, who are your competitors? Mission, what is it your what is it your company does? Execution, how you do it? command and control, you know, who's in charge uh or or supply, how do you how do you get what you need to do in order to service your customers or clients? And then signals, how do you communicate to each other? And so that's just kind of a a example of a a well-known military concept that could

[15:14] be tied directly to uh civilian ownership of a business.

[15:19] >> Yeah. I I mean it it's it's interesting because I think I don't know maybe a couple months ago I actually did a show about you know opboards and I talked about that breakdown that you gave because it does make things so clear right and that's that's this is and and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this what I find is the way the military approaches things makes dealing with complex situations easier. Um, you know, because it's such a big organization, because it

[15:55] has to gear itself to dealing in a ca, you know, a chaotic environment, i.e. the battle space, right? We we we we can't be dealing with all sorts of complexity. We need to be able to break things down, uh, so that as they get communicated, that communication can be clear and the mission, you know, the mission can still be successful. So, uh, like I said, I'm I'm curious to hear what what you think about that and and and how Yeah. and how you did or didn't approach that, you know, in your book.

[16:27] >> Yeah. So, there's there's two two parts that that I I would like to kind of expound upon. One is by having uh you when you train relentlessly to to almost to the point where your mission critical skills are muscle memory. Uh, and the one thing that allows that allows um veterans to do is to remain calm under pressure. So they're they they're not thinking about, you know, it's it's not okay, I've done this, what's next? It's it's drilled into them. They know what the next step is. Um, and the way that and and so the benefit of that particularly from a leadership

[17:02] perspective, um, leadership just like, uh, fear or panic is contagious. So if if the leadership or management is panicking or unsure about what's going on, that's going to propagate throughout the organization both in the military and the civilian world. Um and so by having, you know, standard checklists, uh SOP, standard operating procedures, SOPs, uh that allows the military to do otherwise terrifying things in a very effective manner. translated to the civilian world. You know, any successful business is going to have checklists simply because it's a it's it's one of

[17:39] the best ways to make sure that you're consistently performing or doing what you're supposed to be doing for for a client. Um I'll I'll use the pro the estate plan world uh is you know most estate plans it's very or even probate there there's a finite list of things that have to be done. Uh, and if I could pro with the number of estate plans and probate cases I've worked on, I could probably write it down from memory, but we still use a checklist to make sure, you know, an actual checklist check off. Yes, we did this. Yes, we did this to make sure that we deliver what we promised to the client. Uh and so that's really another, you know, in addition to leadership and management skills, the organizational skills that come along

[18:14] with that, recognizing the need to document those sort of things, not only to to provide consistent service to your clients and customers, but it also makes the turnaround a lot easier when you have someone else stepping into that role. You know, when someone leaves unexpectedly or someone's needing to maybe they're someone's out sick and there's a last minute project. Well, if you have well doumented SOPs and checklists, then that that's going to help them a lot of the way to to fill in that that gap without too too much uh disruption.

[18:43] >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, makes makes great sense. Um, shoot. I had a follow-up question on that and uh I got so intent on listening to you I I I Oh, so um [clears throat] this is and this is a a question that I've thought about as I've you know talked about various especially military doctrinal ideas on this show. um this idea of of the relentlessness of training that we have in the military and it's it that's really I I didn't mention it today but part of the

[19:18] outgrowth of this show is look our fellow Americans spent you know how many billions of dollars you know training the military right um and I and this this show is a way for them to sort of get get back a little bit you know for for all of the you know the the resources that they give the military to train Having said that, you know, a lot of our job in the military is to get trained, right,

[19:46] >> in anticipation of, you know, going to combat or whatever it's going to be. for a business to devote that much time to training. I I I I'm not sure that that that would work because uh you know they wouldn't be able to do anything you know profitable if you will. So I'm I'm I you know would love to hear

[20:12] >> how you look at that aspect of translating you know specifically the intensity and the and the duration of the training on the military side to the civilian side where again from my perspective it just it doesn't seem uh directly replicable but kind of nonetheless necessary.

[20:33] >> Yeah. Um, great great follow-up question. And I think the the way at least I've gone about replicating it in building my practice is that when when we're hiring, let's say we're moving into a new state to to offer services in a new state, the very first hire or the the critical hire is a parallegal that is experienced in that world uh or in that job. And so when you're able and what that allows me to do after that is I can bring on an attorney who's not necessarily well-versed in probate or estate planning, but then they have uh

[21:08] for all intent in intents and purposes a subject matter expert uh that they can rely upon uh to get them up to speed. Same sort of thing. Okay. Then then having that experienced parallegal um I can then bring on less experienced parallegals and essentially have them shadow. So the the experienced parallegal is handling the more complex matters, litigation, whatever the case may be, while the less experienced parallegal shadows helps them out and and it's on the job training is what it is. Uh and so it's almost incorporated into

[21:43] uh performing revenue generating activities. Uh and in along the same things I we do inside the the firm is crossraining. Uh and so each parallegal has a dedicated area of responsibility, but then they cross cross trainin in another jurisdiction or another practice area. And so that's another way to get training while you're still generating revenue.

[22:09] >> I I have to tell you that is fascinating because and I never thought about it this way before. This is one of the reasons why I love having guests on this show. But from a Navy standpoint and and this would there's got to be an army equivalent. I I couldn't tell you what the necessarily what the rates are that that would but in a navy we have chief petty officers and you know they're the senior and senior non-commissioned officers, right? And they have two main responsibilities. One is to train the junior commissioned officers which kind of in your firm would be the lawyers and the other is to

[22:46] train the more junior enlisted people which would be kind of the equivalent of less experienced parallegals. They they they're in that sort of pivot pivotal role to make sure that everybody gets trained and everybody knows what to do but in the end they're really the subject matter experts of the Navy. I guess the would be what? A um first sergeant I maybe or

[23:09] >> Yeah. So it would be uh so E7 is sergeant first class and that's that's the a platoon sergeant, right? That's the the uh that's that's what butterbar lieutenants ensons in the Navy get uh paired up with. Um, and that's that's actually another point I make in the book is that uh retired senior NCOs uh by and large are a great hireer for an organization simply because they have that that mindset in there that they're they're able to um mentor not only you know someone that outranks them, you know, an attorney or something along those lines, but at the same time uh you

[23:44] know realizing they have to develop the the enlisted soldiers as well. Uh, and so that's not not every E9. E9 is a sergeant major in the army, like a senior chief petty officer in the Navy. I think that's what it is.

[23:57] >> Master Chief. Yeah, master chief petty officer.

[23:59] >> Master Chief. Master Chief Petty Officer. Um, I said not not every single E9 you're going to that retires out of the military is going to be a rockstar. But more often than not, you're going to find a pretty good

[24:09] >> [clears throat]

[24:09] >> uh senior E9 that will be able to make positive contributions to your organization from day one.

[24:15] >> Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. I I would say the same thing about the Navy and the Marine Corps. Like Marine Corps, you know, uh Sergeant Major um you know, probably 80 90% of them are are going to be great because they're they are just so locked in and they have such great understanding and and same with Master Chief, especially command master chiefs like like my friend John. So yeah. So

[24:39] >> yeah. Yeah. Starting with Yeah. Sergeant, first class, first sergeant, sergeant major. Yeah. So anyway, go ahead. Sorry. Yep.

[24:44] >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's take a quick break and we'll come back for for more.

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[25:29] or visit magnumprops.com. Oops, [laughter] I clicked

[25:35] >> Magnum Properties. Check them out. Thanks. So, uh, so for for, you know, for some, it's one thing to read a book and and this is oftentimes where I where I find there's a disconnect like I I out of my experience helping u military people get their first post-military job, I wrote a book called the eight deadly sins of job hunting, right? And people I people are like wait there's only seven deadly sins. Yeah. But you know in the military

[26:10] we we like to really excel you know. So we we [laughter] found eight of them. Right.

[26:15] >> Yeah.

[26:15] >> The the challenge I had I would give people a copy of the book is getting them to take what's in the book and actually use it. So I'm I'm wondering how how do you see that working uh in terms of you know somebody buys your book and they read it okay that's great they have the knowledge how do they take that knowledge and actually you know build it into their business so it has an impact

[26:49] >> yeah I mean it takes it goes takes a good amount of discipline to do it right and and one of the things I I talk about in the book is uh building routines and using routines as a leadership tool. And so each day, you know, you have a daily routine and and the the the lessons from the book uh you know, however that that may be is is dedicating time each day to making sure you're building the business you the way you want to build it. Uh realizing that that's a lot easier said than done. Um there there's plenty of good solid programs out there that will help you do that as well. And so I mean

[27:25] there uh I I read I'm sure many or not I don't know how many people read I know a lot of people have but traction uh by Gina and I'm forget his last name uh but he he offers a a coaching program EOS worldwide where they actually will have someone come in and and force you to to build your business out like that. Um I'm actually in the process of developing a uh a coaching system as well based upon this book uh that that will help veterans. It's not it's not ready just yet, but it's it's designed to you provide accountability, right? When you're in a group setting and you

[28:00] actually have to say yes, I did this or no, I didn't. It it motivates you to to do those sort of things uh or or make those promises as well. But, you know, ultimately, uh any successful businessman will tell you that discipline, self-discipline is a big part of what makes them successful. Uh and so that's that's going to be the first step. uh I think for any veteran is is drawn upon that discipline and holding themselves accountable to to doing something or or building their business that they want to build. [snorts]

[28:31] >> So what about people coming out of the military? So they've been sort of not sort of they have been steeped in a in a culture of self-motivation, self-discipline, that sort of thing. What about for, you know, a a young person today who didn't go into the military? Um, I I'll acknowledge this is one of my sort of, you know, soapbox things that people say terrible terrible things about young people today. They're lazy. They're they're they're unmotivated.

[29:07] But first of all, that's not the typical young person in the military. Number one, right? You and I both, I think, have experienced that. But, but just out in the world, uh, young people, I think they're very motivated, but it's very the world is, you know, I'm old enough to come from a time when I knew what my what my life plan looked like because society told me what it was going to be. you know, [snorts] going to go to college, going to get married, have a couple of kids, you know, be a professional, you know,

[29:43] work for a company for a long time or start a business, right? Those that that was just a given. And and so I didn't I didn't have to focus on all that. All I had to focus on was just following the plan. But for the typical young person today, they don't have that plan to follow. Life is very sort of, you know, atistic. So, how can a how could a young person take your book and use it as a a young person who wasn't in the military? How could they take your book and use it as

[30:18] a um a plan or a path to maybe start a business?

[30:25] >> Yeah. Uh, and I'm I'm I think I'm a little younger than you, but yeah, I was still had those those cultural norms that say, yeah, this is this is the path you go on. Same sort of thing. And I think there's so much information and mis disinformation out there that that it almost handicaps the younger generation uh or puts a lot of noise in there. Um, and so to to that, I mean, it really the the first chapter of the book is called define your mission or define the mission. uh and pick what your instate, what whatever it is you want it to be. And it doesn't necessarily have to be for your entire life. It can be a short, you know, a relatively short-term

[31:01] goal. Hey, I want to go to college or I want to go to trade school or I want to start a business or or whatever the case may be. For me, um well, now it's nine years, but in about nine years, my wife can retire with full-time or fulltime full benefits from her job. Uh the kids will be off the payroll. Uh and so I want to be or we want to be in a position where we can travel, do whatever we want to do. And so that that drives my daily decisions, right? You you distill that 10 year picture down to five year, threeyear, one-year goals and then even down to quarterly goals which then get translated to uh daily, weekly

[31:38] projections. And so it's it's really for for younger generations that don't necessarily have the the cultural mores that you and I grew up with. They still are it's 100% within their control to pick what they want to do. You know, choose what what the instate is and then there's plenty of resources out there. My book one of them that can help them uh that that can help them uh start making that a reality. Uh and so even even though the the traditional, you know, college, get married, have kids, stable career, uh may not be the norm anymore, that doesn't mean they they

[32:14] can't pick their version of success and start working towards it.

[32:18] >> Yeah. Okay.

[32:20] >> I don't know. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[32:23] >> Go ahead. Yeah.

[32:24] >> Yeah. I hope that's what it kind of answer your question, but that that's a that's what Yeah. That's why I thought about that.

[32:29] >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I and it's it's it's interesting because and maybe this is this is because we're both, you know, come out of the military, but if I had answered that question, it would have [laughter] been exactly what you said, right? You pick the end state and then you chunk back. If it's if your end state is 30 years, chunk back to 15 and then to 10 and then to five, right? and and eventually you get down to what do I need to do today that will bring me that much closer to my end state that I've set, you know, 30 years hence, right? Uh and and

[33:05] so what would you say to a young person um who he he's he's not sure, do I want to go to college? Do I want to go to trade school? Do I want to start a business? How do I how do I figure out my end state? And the reason I ask you this is because this is, I think, one of the big distinctions between the military and civilian life. And that is we we pretty much know what the end state is in in the military. Like,

[33:37] >> okay, if if we're if we're going to make it our career, we know what the the advancement path looks like. You know, we know we're going to be moving every two to four years. We we know all that stuff. We know what we have to do to get promoted and all that kind of stuff. The civilian life doesn't have those markers, right? And so the as you mentioned a moment ago, there's a far broader range of choice almost to the point of creating stasis where there's so many so many choices one could make uh you can't people can't make a choice anymore. So, as someone who has been

[34:13] both in the military and in civilian life and had to and and lived through that that switch, if you will, from a, you know, pretty direct path of of military life to what does it mean to be professionally successful in civilian life? What would you say to uh, you know, a young man or for that matter a young woman starting out who's really struggling with that issue?

[34:39] >> It's it's going to change. your your definition of success and your your end state is going to change as your life evolves. Uh and so you know the the best thing I can say is is pick something, try it out, and if it [clears throat] doesn't it it doesn't you find out you don't like it, go pick something else. And that I I've honestly it took me a lot I wish I had known that a lot earlier in my life than that realization came to. And and my life's a perfect example. Um, you know, I I went to college not with an ROC scholarship. I I

[35:14] went and figured out that I wanted to be in the army while I was at college. And so that that reshaped or uh changed the the trajectory of my life. Um, and then I went into the military fully expecting to do 20 years. Uh then I met my wife who's an attorney and she didn't want to move every two to four years [laughter] and not be able to use her law degree because she didn't want to take a bar exam every two to four years which I don't blame her. Um

[35:40] >> and so that that changed the the trajectory of my life and I was like okay well I'm going to go find something else to do. Went out and did the construction industry for a little while. Didn't like it. Uh and so I went back to to law school when I was 28 years old. Uh and my my first child was born my second year. All the while the majority of my classmates are, you know, straight through, they they went straight through undergrad to to law school and they were still doing the partying thing when I was like, "No, sorry guys. I gotta go I can't party. I got to wake up at 2 o'clock in the morning to feed my kid sort of thing." So, [laughter] um, and so the the my point or I guess

[36:15] what I what I say is is you're not going to know what your life is going to look like 20 years from now. uh even if you get your dream job uh and and you do it for 20 years, it's it's not going to look 100% like the the picture that you have in your head. And so never be afraid to to try something new. Uh if if you have a passion about something, then then go see if you can do it. If you don't like it, then find something else. that that's that's you the the the flip side or the the the the opposite of having unlimited options is that you know yeah you can it can cause

[36:50] paralysis by analysis but you still have unlimited opportunities to try new things.

[36:56] >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, let's let's turn it around now for someone who's, you know, a young guy coming out of the military, uh, who is, you know, faced with, um, you know, this transition from military to civilian life. Um, they they they've got your book. Um, they've they've figured out, okay, this is what I want my end state to be. where where does your book take them next in terms of helping them guide

[37:31] help helping guide them you know through a a business or or you know other other type of career

[37:38] >> yeah I mean it kind of it builds upon itself uh and it's more is it's not necessarily I would say a checklist step-by-step guide is more of like these are sort of the the things you should you know philosophies you should develop um and kind of the the the next step after uh picking your end state is really adopting the mindset that you need to continuously build momentum. Uh you know taking doing something each day to get you to that end state simply because and then I I quote the first law of Newton's first law of motion in the book is a body in motion stays in motion until an outside force acts upon it. Um

[38:14] and in the business world something's going to go wrong. Some outside force is going to try to derail your momentum uh or even in your personal life. And so it's important to continue to do that. Um and so it it's and then after that we kind of walk through some other things in there, you know, installing systems, KPIs with the idea being that you're not you most entrepreneurs don't start a business to create them create a job for themselves. They create it or start a business because they want to create freedom for themselves, whether it's freedom to do what they with their money, freedom with their time, whatever the case might be. And so that's a lot of what the book is built on is

[38:50] reinforcing or trying to uh teach that mentality of uh build systems, put things in place so that you don't have to babysit the business all day long.

[39:02] >> So you so you bring up a a great point and I talk about this from time to time. I I think there's a perception out there that oh if I you know I'm going to start a business because I want to make a lot of money. I'll make more money in my own business than I will working for someone else. And statistically that's not necessarily the case. U but you you describe it as as as kind of flexibility maybe. I don't know if that was the exact word you used but uh you know the ability to sort of craft the life that

[39:39] one wants to live beyond the professional realm. How how has you talked a little bit about this um a moment ago, you know, your your 10-year plan, your wife, you know, retiring and being being able to travel. talk I if if if you would talk, you know, more um more broadly about that and and and that philosophy and and how you see um people achieving that because I I will for myself I aside from being in the Navy, I always worked for myself and I probably

[40:16] would have made more money if id worked for somebody else but I liked the optionality I got by, you know, being my own boss and that was more important to me than you know strict dollars and cents. So

[40:29] >> yeah, so I mean it really it really comes down to defining your own success, right? And so if if your success is making as much money as possible, that's great. I don't think that uh yeah, you know, having a whole bunch of money solves a whole bunch of problems, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to find yourself having a fulfilled life. Uh, and so if you can build a business that doesn't necessarily make you rich, but and and again, I'll use my own life as an example of this. Um, you know, my kids play travel ball, which which is a huge time commitment, but I'm able to go and

[41:05] enjoy the baseball games without having to worry about the firm running itself. Uh, and that's because uh my my my version of success is that I get to do what I want to do with my time. Uh, and and so that that doesn't Yeah. you'll have a whole bunch of money that that probably well it depends it depends on which how you how you earn that money and uh things along those lines whether you'll have freedom of time in that regard but you don't necessarily have to have a whole bunch of money in order to have a whole bunch of time to do what you want to do. And so it's it's being it requires one to be very honest with with himself or herself about what they

[41:42] want, what their ideal life looks like and is is money really needed for that? Um, it's it's a it's a story I tell in the book and I think it's a great illustration of this concept is that there's this successful businessman, you know, he works 100 hours a week and every year he and his wife go down to to Mexico um and uh he sees a a fisherman on the beach. He's like, "Wait, why do you do this? Why don't you go start a business and then you can uh you know have do whatever you want. You have all the money in the world." And the fisherman says to him, "Well, why do you have a business?" is or why why are you why are you so successful as business?

[42:17] It's so so I can come down here one week a year, go fishing, drink on the beach, and then go home or go go back to the hotel with my wife and and have a great night. And he's like, "Well, what do you do?" And the businessman asks the fisherman. He's like, "Well, I uh drink on the beach, I fish with my buddies, and I go home and have a wonderful time with my wife at night." Uh, and so you got this successful businessman that's killing himself 51 weeks out of the year. in this uh I gonna say impoverished fisherman, but obviously not working as hard as the businessman doing exactly what he wants to do.

[42:50] >> This is this is the this is the life, right? Kenny Chesn, I want to say

[42:55] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I remember that. Yeah.

[42:58] >> Yeah. I one of my one of my favorite songs of all time, right? [laughter] just but it's it's it's so true that we have this mindset uh and I think it's changing now because I among younger people I think they've gotten this message that um success isn't necessarily maximizing wealth. It's it's really having you know what you need in order to uh live the life that you know you want to live. Um, and most of us we don't need to have as much money as you

[43:33] know an Alon Musk or whatever in order to to live a satisfying life.

[43:38] >> And I mean it's the and I think the a a good way to check whether your your definition of success is truly your definition of success is how do you react to other people's successes? Right? So if you see someone you become a millionaire or uh you become wildly successful and wealthy as a part of it, if you're feeling jealous, that's probably an indication that you're you have some sort of external definition of success as opposed to your internal definition of success.

[44:09] >> Uh when when my good friend exited his business for a very handsome payout, my like that's awesome, dude. Congratulations. I'm glad you could do that. And so that's that's the proper reaction, not oh my god, why why can't I do this? It's man, I'm happy for him. That's awesome. And so I think that you'll having assessing your reaction to others people's success will help you understand where your definition of success comes from.

[44:34] >> Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to bring up your book again. The book is uh from from combat to the seauite leadership lessons to help you build a business with purpose. Bobby, any uh kind of, you know, closing thoughts here before we wrap the show up?

[44:50] >> Uh, no. I uh I appreciate the or yeah, just a couple things. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. Um, and in veterans listening to this, you you really do have a lot to offer the the civilian world, not only from a business perspective, but from a a community perspective. Uh, and and those skills we learn uh are are hard to replicate in the civilian environment. So please be contributing members of your community uh your business and uh the book will be available uh on Amazon and anywhere you can buy it online. Uh so please check it

[45:25] out and uh leave a review if you really like it.

[45:29] >> Very good. Well, Bobby, thanks so much for for being on the show today. Just going to do a quick wrap up here. We'll talk offline. So, so folks, um, if you're regular watchers of this show, you might have thought, "Wait, he sounds an awful lot like you." Well, yeah. This is this [laughter] is what, you know, this is what the military teaches us. This is why um you know I bring this show to you so that you know especially you know those who have didn't have the opportunity to be in the military for whatever reason you you can get a sense of of of the value that it's creating

[46:07] not just for us who were individuals who could serve but hopefully for our country because we come out of the military and we come we become part of the business world and and I think Bobby is you know an absolutely outstanding standing example of the kind of value that he brought he brings to our society um you know after having served served in the United States Army. So um if you know question for you um how do you define success because I think that's central to Bobby's message right and that may be

[46:44] the hardest part. So, if you look right down below, you'll see links to social media and put your definition of success in there and and and tag uh uh Bobby and me and we'll be happy to uh you know to read your posts and and comment on it and um you know hope maybe we can kind of help each other out um by sharing some thoughts and and sparking some ideas. maybe something that we've done or thinking about doing will give somebody else an idea about, you know, what what they want to do, especially for uh for

[47:21] younger people. Um I I'm very sincere in this. I had a long talk with my uh my sister uh earlier this week um talking about their struggles. She's she's a therapist who specializes in working with younger people and she agrees with me. It's it's it's tough. Let's let's stop bashing them and let's let's let's you know help give them kind of a leg up. Let's each of us be a uh uh you know a master sergeant or uh um you know or a chief petty officer. So real quickly uh schedule of shows. All of these are Pacific time. Monday 10:00 a.m. Trust

[47:57] and estates weekly. Tuesdays like today 10 a.m. Business lessons from the military. Wednesdays at 10:00 a.m. People making money and every other Thursday at 5:00 pm, please join me at Jiggers's place. We'll have a cocktail and a schmoo and talk about all kinds of things unrelated to finances like books, movies, relationships, ideas, all those kind of things that really give us uh, you know, a life worth living. So, Bobby, again, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Really appreciate it. They'll, by the way, also

[48:32] look down below, you'll see a link where you can click through and and get a copy of Bobby's book. So, grab grab your copy while you can. Um, and um and like Bobby said, if if if you like the book, leave them a review. It makes a big difference, especially on Amazon. So, that just leaves me to thank you all for joining me and Bobby and me today and signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell.