The WAY to WOW Shows
Work from the Inside
June 5, 2024
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:01] hello and welcome to people making money I'm your host Kevin bemel and we're here every Wednesday morning at 10: a.m Pacific time and we talk about all things related to uh professional success building a business and Building Wealth so today I um I want to talk about an article that was in the weekend edition of The Wall Street Journal I'm I'm going to share my screen here for a second because I I have the article here it

[0:36] is [Music] and here we go well it's it's [Laughter] Jing and there we go okay so um oh that's funny it switch to uh oh why well it's not showing the uh hold on one second here I'm going to I'm going to close this out so uh you're you're not looking at the wrong so um

[1:12] the um so the the the um the Wall Street Journal over the weekend um printed an article um about how um networking is is back um in job hunt in um and I I I thought that was a a you know frankly a pretty um here we go here's the article okay um okay so let's go back and and share the

[1:50] screen okay so here we go so Landing a job is all about who you know again and and the headline networking is making a comeback as employers drown in computer generated job applications so um I'm just going to go over some of the facts or some of the things they mention in the article you can see this I guess it was originally posted online May 30th but I read it in the O over the weekend so 983 people applied online for a job posted Rec recently by tech recruiter

[2:27] Rob tany the candidate who got the off offer wasn't one of them okay now um you know the the and and and look this is this is how journalism is so I'm not getting into the whole thing about you know fake news and all that kind of stuff I that's not the point here um the the the point is it is that um this article is making something that has been the case for decades it's it's it's it's acting like oh and now there're you know all of a sudden again this this new thing is is

[3:03] is coming up so um so look here here's another fact okay so for roles that were posted on Greenhouse job boards and filled in the first quarter of this year applicants with referrals had a 50% chance of advancing past an initial resume review compared with 12% odds for other external candidates okay and by the way notice they don't print the figures here for internal candidates okay um and I I think farther yeah farther in here I don't

[3:39] remember exactly where it is um the they mention that um a lot of employers now are just not even posting um jobs on on job boards anymore um because they they're finding that um they're so overwhelmed by um applications that they they just they just can't get through them all and and the quality of the applications of the

[4:16] applicants they get through the online process is generally speaking so so disrelated to the job they're looking to fill that it doesn't justify the timing it would take to go through all of them so you know this this is this is not a new phenomenon that's number one ever has it been thus okay the the all companies will give preference to an

[4:51] internal referral by the way even even the government agency will do that and they're mandated by law not to do that but they find ways around it and and it's it's for good reason um the fact of the matter is if someone who is already working in the workplace refers someone in there's a presumption that is probably true that the person being referred in

[5:26] is more likely to get along with the current employees than someone brand new with no connection to anyone there because they're not already part of the social fabric of that organization okay number one number two there's there is a PR presumption now this presumption may not be true that when someone is referred in what what is known about that person is more reliable because there's someone there to vouch

[6:01] for them now you know look friends lie for each other so it that it may not actually be the case but the presumption is there and the and and the the the presumption has to be rebutted mean meaning it's assumed that the person the person's uh qualifications are valid um and and and and that's that has to be disproved rather than the situation where um someone's coming in nobody knows anything about the person and therefore

[6:36] um the what has to be proved is that indeed they are qualified so this is why historically uh someone who's referred in or who has an internal contact had the inside line right sence the name to getting that particular position like I said it it just it just makes sense and if you've benefited by it you've you've seen that and if you have not benefited by it you know how aggravating it can be

[7:13] especially if you are indeed a well qualified candidate it's like wait why does this other person who you know is maybe as you know qualified as me but why do they get an Essence special treatment you know because they know but they know someone on the inside that that's unfair it's nepotism it's this it's that it's it may be all of those things but but that that is how human beings are and and that's how uh companies are so what what's going on here well if if

[7:50] we go back to the pre-internet days when a company had a job opening that typically they they filled it in one of a few ways one was by letting people in the company know that the position was open and looking for referrals that that's always been the case another is by putting ads in the local newspapers in the One ads which I don't even think they exist anymore right they put it in the One ads and the

[8:27] the the the applicant pool was pretty much limited to people in the area where the organization was located okay a third way was they would uh hire what what used to be called a head hunting firm a recruiting firm now that was usually in cases where they were looking for an executive a more senior person of some sort um and in that case you know the head hunters would would you know they would look however Broad broadly geographically it was necessary to find candidates for the

[9:05] role um and when I say however broadly nationally that was required meaning that you know if it was uh for example a a president of a company you know they might look throughout the United States for candidates especially if it was a very large company whereas if it was a you know Vice President of Operations they're probably not going to you know of a small company they wouldn't necessarily look nationally but they might look you know within the state or regionally depending on um you know how

[9:40] how the company viewed um or how how willing the company was to um get you know have someone come in who was relocating perhaps from out of state or out of the area and and how much financial support they were going to give uh you know for that purpose right so are you know are you going to are you going to pay for yourself to move cross country um to take on the Vice President of Operations role at a small company um with the attendant risk that if it doesn't work out now you've you know you You' forked out a lot of money to relocate and and now you're you're in a

[10:17] new location where you you're not you may not be established etc etc etc right so you know um in order to take that risk you know you you would typically want to negotiate some kind of relocation allowance and and and yet if you're the company you know do you want to pay relocation money to to you know a new employee and risk that the person isn't going to work out right so that those were sort of the competing um uh uh issues um that had to be decided um in those kind of cases and then Along Comes the the internet and with it came

[10:55] um job boards and I think originally companies felt like well this is a great thing because now we can post a notice on the internet and people you know all over the place can um access you know our jobs or our job openings I should say and and this will get us you know better candidates more quickly and and that means we'll have a you know a a a you know more uh a more talented Workforce and uh wow you know isn't this fantastic and maybe in the very beginning it did work

[11:32] that way um but very quickly what companies came to realize was that the the internet allowed people to just Deluge them with uh applications and in fact um back when I was doing um uh was actively um coaching military people who were transitioning to civilian life I I met uh one one fellow who told me that every day during the week you know during the weekday um he would fill out

[12:07] you know a hundred job applications okay so 500 a week he would just go on job boards and just bang out these job applications and and I said well how long have you been doing that and he said well for about nine months and I said and how many uh interviews have you gotten he said well I got a handful I said have you gotten a job he said no now the reality was just you know slamming companies with with your job application is is meaningless um especially if you're not

[12:44] looking at what what the qualifications are how well you meet those qualifications and and being very um uh individualized in how you approach each company and even then okay as as you saw in the statistics from this Wall Street Journal article only a you know very small percentage of of those you know job board or online applicants actually passed to the next phase so um the the

[13:21] the statistics that that are quoted in the Wall Street Journal article um I I don't know where they got those statistics um but uh what I can tell you is that um in terms of uh the percentage of people who get jobs because they know someone on the inside um is extraordinarily High and the the overwhelming majority of jobs are filled by people who know someone on the inside and in fact may not have even applied online or if they did they

[13:59] applied online because it was part of the process but they already knew um before they applied online that you know they were being you know considered um seriously for the job and and the online job applicant was really just a way of of of you know getting their basic information into the system it there would you know they were Auto they were going to be pulled they weren't even going to go through um the auto at resume screeners that a lot of of of companies use in order to weed out

[14:36] the hundreds and hundreds of applications uh applicants they get and find you know the the small number that are actually you know going to get some kind of you know live meeting to discuss the job so you'll find that throughout these kind of discussions I don't use the word interview um and and uh for those of you who have seen um me talk about this issue before um I'm just going to digress on this subject for a minute so you so you understand where I'm coming from um when when you're going to talk

[15:12] to someone about taking a role in a company that is a meeting of of of two equals essentially both of whom need to be asking Rel relevant questions about whether this is the right situation an interview implies that you're going there as kind of a beggar right and you're you're going to be you're going to stand a grilling with the hope that you know you give the right answers and you will get chosen for the job now if you've been struggling to find a job I can understand why you feel that way I I

[15:48] I I certainly can what I would suggest is if that's how you feel going into an interview you you are putting yourself at a disadvantage Vantage because skilled skilled um uh um U skilled managers can tell when someone is exhib exhibiting self-confidence and when they're not and if someone is not exhibiting self-confidence a lot of times they will not uh pass I mean they

[16:23] will pass on that candidate and they won't seriously consider that person um for for the role that that is open so um you know hiring managers um while um they you know when you're the hiring manager for a for a particular job you're typically not an HR person okay so you're looking for someone who's compatible to you know to your team and and and someone who you know comes in kind of hat inand with his

[16:58] attitude I'm hoping to get I'm hoping to get a job even if you don't pick up on it consciously unconsciously I think it it causes people to wonder you know why what what's up with this person why are they why are they so nervous why are they so um retiring why are they so um exhibiting a sense of inferiority um and and so um you know how is that going to work in terms of contributing to the success of my department whereas if you go in with an

[17:33] attitude of uh you know I'm I'm going to learn about this role about the people I'll be working with about the organization to see if it's the right place for me okay and you know do so of course respectfully um but but forthrightly um so then that person is demonstrating first of all some some some self-esteem second of all some leadership and third a sincere interest in more than just getting the job

[18:08] they're they're exhibiting that they they have concern for their Fitness for the role which is of course what the company's concern is so now now your your your um interests are aligned right if I go into an interview and my interest is in getting the job okay that is not the company's interest the company's interest is in finding someone the presumably the best person for that job okay so if I go in intent

[18:45] on understanding what is this really going to entail and how might this work with respect to my knowledge skills and experience okay so now I'm aligning self with the company's interests and that's what that's what companies want to see they want to see a team player right so by the way it was perfectly valid to go to a meeting to discuss a job talk about it and at the end of the end of the meeting say to the hiring manager you know what Having learned more about the

[19:20] position more about the company Etc I really I really believe that this is not the right opportunity for me I thank you for your time and if you you know if you have something you know along this these other lines that might be uh you know a position that would be right for me um but but this one doesn't doesn't seem right for me now does that happen a lot well it depends I mean in in higher level positions with people who are confident yeah they will turn down positions for sure they will um and by

[19:56] the way sometimes when they turn down position that makes the company want them more because it's like wow you know this person is confident enough to turn down our positions so you know what do they know that you know that that that we want that kind of thing but I'm not saying to turn it down as a as employ to get the job but what I am saying is it should be in the back of your mind that if the job is not if if it turns out that this opportunity is not right for you it's not the right fit that you have every reason to turn down or or or even

[20:31] if you're not offered it to just say this isn't this is I you I know you haven't offered me the position but but you know based on what we've discussed this is not the right situation for me so that's why I call it a meeting to discuss a job because that's what it should be and I would I would I one of the things I most strongly recommend is you think about you know the the application process the screening process is all about getting to a to into a meeting with the hiring manager to discuss the job okay now the you want

[21:09] to do that as I I put in the you know marketing for this episode you want to do that from the inside okay now how do you do it from the inside well here's the interesting thing and and I'm gonna I'm going to talk about the the military for just a minute to show you how kind of almost perverse um you know job um job acquisition training is so all the branches of the military um have uh something called a transition assistance program that's that's what we call it in

[21:44] the Navy anyway the other branches I think has a different name now i' I've been through it I went through it twice in 2012 and 2018 it's a four or five day program and in both cases during the that weeklong program we spent perhaps 30 minutes talking about how to network to get a job 30 minutes we spent an entire day talking about writing a resume okay and I would argue this is

[22:21] one of the reasons why many military people struggle to find a job because they're being told that the quality of their resume at least in terms of hours spent talking about the subject is 16 times more important than networking right eight hours you know eight hours of class maybe it's seven hours when you take breaks or whatever okay so eight seven hours talking about writing a resume versus 30 minutes talking about networking okay so 14 di we'll say okay that that is the absolute

[22:59] opposite of reality networking is 10 20 50 a 100 times more important than what's in your resume okay solid relationships can overcome a mediocre resume a fantastic resume the most perfect resume in the world cannot overcome mediocre networking skills it cannot okay that's just the bottom line anyone who tells you differently is

[23:36] probably trying to sell resumé writing services I mean you know without slamming you know resumé writers but uh but that's you know I say that you know somewhat tongue and Chic so so how do you do it well you do it the way you look for friends that's the best way I can put it right you look for people in the industry that you want to be a part of and you make friends with them now how do you make friends with people well the cardinal rule is you

[24:13] make friends with people by helping people out okay and and you say that that that's awfully simplistic yeah yeah it is but it happens to be true okay do you have do you have someone who thinks they're your friend and all they ever do is ask you for help or ask you for money or ask you for this or ask you for that do you really consider that person your friend probably not you you probably consider that that person to be kind of a leech okay that's not a basis for a

[24:48] relationship now among our longstanding friends we probably go through periods when a particular person is you know much more in need of help um than you know than we are and so our our you know responsibility as a friend is to give them that help okay however on par good friendships come from a mutuality of Interest both interest in the sense of

[25:24] things we like to do but also a mutuality of Interest in I help you you help me there's a there's a kind of balance there over time you know on the short term there probably isn't balance okay and and the striving for balance in the short term is going to be um destructive to creating a relationship because it's a it becomes too transactional well you know you helped me last week so now this week it's my turn to be held no that's that's not a relationship that that's a business

[26:00] transaction but over time friends helping each other out it tends to balance out so like I said you go through periods where you know one friend is is in Greater need of help than the other and then and then maybe you know think neither one is in particular need of help and then sometime down the road you know the other person is going through a tough time in their life and they're in need of help that's how a relationship works and that's what you want to do in creating opportunity for yourself

[26:37] professionally okay so how do you do that well you look for places where you can meet people who are already in the profession or industry uh that of of which you want to be a part okay so we'll take take cyber security that's a that's a pop popular you know uh uh job these days okay it's sort of a you know a sub you know Tech in general is pretty popular that was the example they use in the Wall Street Journal article right almost a thousand um you know online applications for a

[27:12] tech job right so let's let's be let's take cyber security specifically so how are you going to in essence make friends with people in the cyber security uh business well okay I'm going to I'm going uh hang on one second I'm GNA show you exactly what I would do so stop share and I'm going to I'm going to just go share a um oh here it is new tab okay I'm just going to share a tab okay so if I were looking for uh a you know to get a job

[27:48] in cyber security the first thing I would do is I would I would search cyber security oops security I learn to spell professional associations okay I spelled that wrong there you go okay um and you know I usually skip the the sponsored results and here you go cyber magazine top 10 cyber security associations there you go okay so I'd go to this article and here you go National

[28:25] Security of ISAC uh whatever Isaac's information and security whatever that that sounds stands for let's see if I can find what what iscs are um I I don't know okay the cyber security scheme this is based in the UK okay the Cyber threat Alliance is a group of C cyber security practitioners from organizations that have chosen to cooperate okay National cyber security Alliance here is another one nonprofit organization I think these

[29:01] must all be UK based based on uh let's see cyber magazine I'm guessing this is a uk-based publication by the way they spell organization um but in anyway um you know cyber security non working to create more secure and interconnected World okay women in cyber security there you go um information security Forum Cloud security Alliance see a center for Internet Security this has got to be a UK thing right because they're spelling Center TR instead of t r okay

[29:36] International Association of privacy professionals and the Sans Institute okay offering programs to more than 165,000 Security Professionals Sans Institute is one of the most trusted and largest sources for information and cyber security training certification worldwide okay launched in 1989 so it's been around for 35 years okay so here's that's one list here let's list of cyber security um okay that one was older that was from August of last year this is from February of this year here's

[30:12] another list hey it takes a okay here we go cyber security um associations um okay here and here here you go um the association for executives and Healthcare information security the Australian information security Association okay here's CSA again Cloud security Alliance um Auto Isaac Automotive information sharing and Analysis Center okay that's what Isaac stands for okay um apwg the anti- fishing working group okay and there's a short write up on each of these right

[30:49] and there look this is this is this is a great List look how many of them there are let's go f farther down uh here cyber Ireland here New Jersey cyber security and Communications integration cell South Carolina cyber Association cyber Wyoming Alliance here's you know state by state here's one for Georgia um here's law enforcement cyber Center okay so you can see that there's large organizations that cover International there's National organizations here's Maritime Security Council okay that

[31:26] covers a particular industry in terms of cyber security and then there's ones that are you know geographically um either by state here's Silicon Valley cyber security Institute okay um here's uh water information sharing an analysis Center wow you know so you can look for um an organization or two that is is in your area um or that in your area geographically or here

[32:01] here's cyber Florida at the University of South Florida here's Canadian that so look for one that's in your geographic area or one that's in your area of Interest okay look there's two in in Texas you notice okay here's Louisiana so when I say in your area of interest um here the the maritime security resilience Alliance so maybe you're interested in Maritime security okay The Institute of internal Auditors maybe your interest is in auditing okay here's National Defense oil and gas so whatever

[32:39] your interest is find an organization or maybe two okay you don't want to join all of them because you don't have enough time to work all of them but find an organization or two that aligns with the the industry or the profession of which you want to be a part and join it and get involved okay find out when the meetings are find out when the trainings are a lot of the stuff is online these days and you and you can go and take part in these online

[33:14] trainings or online meetings you can meet other people and when you're in the trainings okay take note of people in the trainings that you think it would be interesting to connect with okay I'm GNA go back over here okay and uh I'm G close this out um so you you know find so I I'll give you an example um as many of you know um I'm a professional fiduciary so there's an

[33:49] organization here in the Southern California area called the Southern California Institute and they do trainings on a regular basis related to estate planning estate and Trust Administration and uh other uh Associated topics in in in particular they have a a training called Thursday insights and it happens three out of four Thursdays a month basically um in the afternoons okay now I haven't been for a while because I've been too busy um but I would I you know got involved

[34:25] with that and I routinely went to those meetings now they were they were done virtually so I didn't have to leave my office to go and it made it really easy here's the thing the meetings generally um there was anywhere from about 15 to 30 people there now you might say well that's not a lot of people can't do any good networking there because the more people the better I disagree smaller groups I think are more effective for networking because because you have an opportunity to not only um get to know

[35:03] people better because there's fewer you also have an opportunity to you know share a little bit about yourself or or not share about yourself necessarily but show people who you are okay and so one of the things I made it a point of doing in in these trainings is always coming up with a relevant question for whoever was conducting the training that number one would help them better make their point or show their

[35:38] expertise okay now I know it's fun when someone's presenting to try and stump them okay and and you know in certain circumstances like if if the person is really obnoxious I don't maybe you want to do that and and by doing that you you kind of get everybody else going oh I'm so glad you did it because I didn't have the guts to do it but this person is really a jerk you know kind of thing but that's a risky strategy better is to help the person make their

[36:14] presentation more effective now why do that number one it shows you're engaged with what's going on okay and that's important because who wants to meet someone who doesn't who's sitting there wasting their time not engaged in what's going on that you know why would you waste your time wanting to meet someone like that so number one you show you're engaged number two you show that you're interested in learning which means typ it's funny how

[36:51] people interpret this someone who's interested in learning most people assume that person knows stuff and they're building on their knowledge okay so if you're able to ask a pertinent question that puts you closer to the presenter in terms of your level of knowledge okay so you want to come up with that question and better yet is to ask a question that allows you to dialogue a little bit with the presenter and and if you have a really good

[37:26] presenter they'll perceive what you're doing and and since you're helping them out they will turn around and help you out by in actively engaging you in a brief conversation about your question right so so you know good present so I here I'll here here's an example coming up um a a close friend of mine my friend Bill gross tomorrow is going to be the presenter at the Southern California Institute Thursday Insight meeting and I'm going to go now I already have a

[38:01] relationship with Bill for decades but one of the things I'm going to seek to do as I always do in these presentations is ask a question that makes bill look better okay now what he's probably gonna do is respond by saying something along the lines of you know Hey Kevin great question you know blah blah blah blah blah blah blah you know does that am I answering your question you know and then I can go yes um how about this other aspect you know and we can have a short dialogue okay so that's the kind

[38:37] of thing you want to create when you're in one of these professional association trainings or meetings okay that's that's the important thing to do all right now having done that in the meeting you want to jot down first of all you want to jot down the presenter's name name if somebody is presenting that probably means they have a higher than typical am uh amount of knowledge and experience in the industry so that's someone you want to create a relationship with okay so

[39:15] take their name down and then after after the you know training is over and it doesn't have to be immediately after but I would say within 24 hours go to LinkedIn look the person up and connect with the person on LinkedIn and and you know LinkedIn allows you to write a brief note so say in the note where you connected with them I.E um you know h i mean I'm already connected to Bill but hi Bill um great you know great training yesterday at the

[39:52] uh great training yesterday at the seci the SEC uh the Southern California Institute thought it would be good to connect and build a relationship okay and you only have like 300 characters or whatever it is when you're trying to connect with someone so the message has got to be short but just remind them where you know where you met them because you know they won't necessarily remember your name okay and and and connect with them now you've got the now you've got that initial connection me but it's based on

[40:28] something and so they're very likely to go yeah okay I'll connect with Kevin bang and there you go okay so that's one way to build Connections in that meeting the second typically the meetings will allow you to post comments okay and and if you're using a PL if they're using a platform like Zoom you can post comments to individuals you don't have to post to the entire group so if someone else asks a question again that's someone that you want to connect with okay because

[41:05] they're demonstrating interest more than typical interest in the subject number one and number two think about the Dynamics of learning most people are afraid of asking questions because they're afraid of looking foolish or like they don't really know the reality is it's the opposite people who ask questions typically are the ones who know more and want to know even more they're the top people okay so if someone is in a training and they ask a question that's also someone you want to

[41:42] meet so if someone asks a question and now by the way if someone asks a dumb question okay so then you know maybe that isn't someone you want to connect with but if someone asks a good question okay then Post in the chat you know hey Greg great question thanks for asking it okay and take down Greg's name okay then again after the meeting within 24 hours preferably go to

[42:17] LinkedIn look up Greg and connect with him hey Greg you know great meeting you in the meeting the the you know seci meeting yesterday thought it would be good to connect here okay and now you've made a new connection okay so that's the first step is making that initial connection now the nice thing about being in a professional organization and and going to a training or going to a meeting is you have a

[42:53] natural reason to periodically reconnect with people you meet there okay and what is that natural connection it's when there's another training coming up or another meeting coming up to reach out to people that you've met in the organization and just say to them hey I saw there's a training coming up on the following topic um you know are you planning on being there or what do you think about this topic or do you what do you know about the present Mentor so you

[43:29] have a natural way to interact with people based on no you know the organization is doing 90% of the work all you have to do is just Reach Out periodically with a question okay now you want you want these interactions to benefit the other person how do we benefit the other person well one way is by asking their opinion that's why a a great question is um you know what do you know about the presenter or have you

[44:05] ever heard the presenter present before now by the way it's always better to ask an open-ended question than it is a yes no question so have you seen the presenter present before you know you you you can get a one-word answer yes no so while that's that's okay the better question is um what do you know about the presenter okay or um um you know what what what do um what information about the presenter's background U do you have or something like that or

[44:41] conversely you know if you reach out the person and say and and ask them hey um are you going to the meeting where such and such is going to present and the person says maybe the person says I'm I'm not really sure and you can so then what I would do in that case is I'd go look up the presenter's background and and you know just get a a hyperlink to it and I'd say the person well hey yeah I was I was unsure too so I looked up the presenter's background here's a link to it maybe this will help you decide and now you're helping the person because you've you know you've

[45:16] taken uh you know two minutes to provide them with some information okay that that will help now by the way of course they could be saying they they don't know because you know they're not going to go but they don't want to say no or whatever fine whatever look respond you know based on them giving you a legitimate response okay now that and and again that's the key in in your interactions with these people you want to give them a at least a small bit of value so that they see that that you know following up with you is a

[45:52] worthwhile thing to do okay now I will also say in addition to following people um or connecting with people on LinkedIn um the other place that I'll I'll I'll look for them sometimes is Instagram okay I I frankly do not find Facebook to be a a good professional networking social media uh place it it I don't know it doesn't work for me and I found it it's become increasingly more difficult um to use um I've even considered just you know dropping off of

[46:28] Facebook completely um I also don't find X to be a good platform for professional connecting um you know for whatever reason I it it's just it's just not my venue but the other place I will connect with people professionally is on Instagram and in fact I have a way to wow Show Instagram you know membership or page whatever you call it um and that's typically where I make profession Prof connections right and and what I find is so for example my friend um Von

[47:03] Marie Thomas so she regularly posts on Instagram about matters related to bookkeeping accounting and and how to handle that and tips on how you can do that more efficiently that kind of thing um and my my my uh um my friend Jennifer Belmont also posts on Instagram um and and and she you know gives uh I mean she she sometimes she um posts about kind of you know just fun things that are going on in her life but other times she posts about professional things as well and and by the way it's nice once in a while

[47:40] to put in a personal thing because that helps build a relationship which I think is why um Jennifer does that so you you get a little sense of her personality right so another thing to do is to connect with people um like I said I I recommend Instagram I think I I I think at least right now LinkedIn and Instagram are the two best social media sites for um professional networking and um so I I follow my friend uh Sarah demsky on Instagram Sarah is a real estate agent and she will often times um

[48:15] post something and ask a question so one time she posted several pictures of of swimming pools and and I think it was swimming pools you said you know which one do you like the best so when she does that I I if you know I try and make it a point to respond right because that's helping her out and I look we've known each other for a long time I want to help out it's also it's also fun I mean it's a fun thing to do but um so you know again you it's it's it's like a tiny thing takes you you know literally a minute okay but do those kind of things because they help build

[48:52] relationships and that's all you're doing say well well how am I going to get a job out of this well the way you're going to get a job out of it is as you get as you build these relationships okay and you get to know people now you'll have an opportunity to ask them for help okay if you ask them for help right off the bat okay you you you come off like there's a yish word it's called a snorer it's like it's like someone who's always after something for himself and and and you know at the expense of other people and that's even

[49:28] if people don't think that about you consciously subconsciously that's kind of how they respond okay so you want to build the relationship first okay so that then down you know after a while after you know several months of of doing Small Things periodically to help them out um you know and as you're going through your your other job hunting routines okay so maybe you come across a position at you know XYZ cyber security Inc okay and you see that there's a job

[50:06] there posted on the job board and and you think it's you you're an ideal candidate for that job okay and it just so happens that by being involved in the cyber security professional association you've established a a relationship with someone who works at XYZ cyber security Inc so contact that person and now don't say I saw there was a job opening can you get me an interview no okay that's that's too big an Ask usually the first

[50:41] time out but but you can say hey I saw that that you know that your company has the following position open um what can you tell me about the job okay now that's a subtle way of saying I'm interested in the job right but it's not putting them under any obligation other than to just share some with you some information as you know that's kind of from the inside but that's where you want to get is into the

[51:17] inside okay so you know hopefully you've built a relationship to the point where the person will say oh yeah you know I I heard about that job um a actually you know frankly they already have a candidate for it um there you know someone is on the inside is is going to be getting the job they put it on the job board just because you know it's it's company policy but um but it's it's it's frankly not a real opportunity okay well there you go so there's no sense you know getting all excited about this you know perfect job because you know there's somebody on the inside okay um

[51:54] however even if they say that your response can be hey thanks for letting me know saves me a lot of time um if you happen if another one another job another opening like that happens to come up and you you happen to think of it maybe you'd let me know and there you go and and now you're you're building that inside track you see how that works okay now by the way they might get back to and say oh yeah you know I I I I I I don't really know anything about

[52:29] that job um I I I I may have heard something about it um so so if that's their response then you can say oh well would you be able to refer me to someone else in the company that could tell me about it okay that may now now that's a little heavier lift right than just sharing some information themselves and they they may come back to you and say no I don't I don't know who the hiring manager is or whatever okay hey thanks I I you know I appreciate you considering it and and just keep moving on okay now by the way I wouldn't get all you know

[53:05] mad that the person wouldn't refer you they may feel that you know they don't know you well enough to do that I mean people know how these things work the idea of of of being something less than direct is you give people an opportunity to handle things in a way that maintains the relationship but also lets them handle things in a way that they're comfortable okay so you know generally speaking you know close friends we we don't have a problem with making them uncomfortable because they understand but but for a newer relationship we

[53:40] don't want to make people feel uncomfortable because that can blow the relationship so in the beginning especially we want to ask things in a way that things remain comfortable while still letting us and and allowing us to continue to build the relationship so so again if the person says no I don't know any about it oh can you refer me to someone you know I'm not really sure who it is and uh sorry about that you know kind of thing it's like and now always make sure even if you get a no to to thank them hey hey thanks you know thanks for thinking about it um no problem see you at the next um you know

[54:17] cyber security association meeting so always ended on an a communication on an up note you know making it clear that you intend to maintain the relationship you know even though you might not have gotten the kind of help that you wanted now obviously you don't want to say thanks for nothing I'll see you at the next meeting obviously not but but make sure you the person understands that you know you look they must have taken at least 10 seconds to consider do I want to refer this people this person you know to someone in the company no okay well at least they considered it right so

[54:52] there there's nothing you're not lying to say if you say hey thanks for thanks for you know thinking about it and uh you know looking forward to seeing you at the next meeting okay now by the way they might say oh yeah you know um my buddy uh you know Sue is the hiring manager um I'm I'm happy to introduce you to sue bang that's the mother load because that's what you want you want an introduction to the hiring manager from someone in the company now obviously the best introduction is from

[55:27] a friend of Sue's okay but even if it's not from a friend of Sue but someone that Sue knows okay that that may be all it takes for you to get the inside track which is what you're looking to do okay so we're getting toward the end of the show here so I want I want to summarize number one there is no quick way to get the inside track if you don't already have a relationship established in a company it takes time because you have to have

[56:03] those relationships and relationships that you can rely on take time to build they're not built generally speaking in a week or a month usually they're built at least over several months okay so I'll give you a quick example um I met a a fellow by the name of Roy Gia he he's an accountant specializing in trusts and estate Roy and I first met um the end of last year and we we kept in touch he was a guest on my show trust and Estates weekly a

[56:40] while back and you know yesterday I was able to refer him some business okay so it took five five and a half six months something like that okay now I think it's it's reasonable to say that you know both Roy and I we we kind of hit it off from the start we had aligned interests and we both are of a mindset to you know make referrals and help you know be resources to each other that kind of thing okay so it can with some people it'll happen faster than others with other people it may take a year to build that kind of relationship or nine

[57:16] months or two years okay and as you go through this one of the things you need to assess is look we can only maintain so many relationships even in a professional setting so which ones are we going to maintain but we you know we need to create those relationships and that takes time okay so if you are thinking about job hunting or if if you're thinking about changing careers okay the best time to start creating the relationships that are

[57:51] necessary to do that to get the inside track is about a year ago okay the next best time is now because although you know you may not have the relationships you need for six to 12 months from now at least six to 12 months from now you will have them now that may mean that you've got to stay in your current position for six months until you've developed those relationships um to the point where you'll be able to you know reap the benefit of them okay and if you don't have a job and and you're looking for one obviously exercising that kind of

[58:27] patience can be difficult okay so maybe the answer is you to get a you know some kind of position where you can at least um you know support yourself or support you and your family even if it's something temporary and that you don't like very much but at least you know you got some money coming in while you work on building the relationships that you need within the profession or industry in which you want to go so that you can get the position that you want just recognize it takes time it also takes

[59:02] lots of small interactions okay now it can be the case that you have an hour-long meeting with someone and immediately establish a solid relationship that's true that was true for uh someone I was referred to again this was I think toward the end of last year my friend Josh who uh also was in trust Administration um when when we met and we we kind of exchanged information about each other he said hey if I come down to La later this week um you know would would you be interested in meeting for coffee I'm like anyone who wants to

[59:37] take an hourlong drive to meet me I want to meet that person we hit it off we ended up talking for about an hour and a half maybe it was even two hours and we've had a great mutually supportive relationship since then okay that's relatively unusual usually relationships are built little number of small interactions over time because most people just they they don't have the time to sit for you know two hours with you know in essence a stranger um and and uh you know when there when there's no immediate benefit

[60:12] to them so you know plan this out plan that the amount of time that it's going to take do do your homework okay and by you know if you haven't started doing this already you know start today literally start today don't put it off okay because then at least you know six months from now you will have built the base the foundation of a professional Network that you need okay so again the best time to start this

[60:47] would have been a year ago the next best time is right now and I literally mean right now because the show's going to end in a moment when this show ends start okay don't delay the problem with with networking is there's always something better to do than networking for most of us this includes me okay here I am you know talking about it but you know it's an easy thing to overlook because it's it's tough it takes thought we have to be focused on the other person all those things and that makes it difficult to do most people are not

[61:22] natural networkers they have taught themselves how to be a good networker and they they're doing the things that I've been talking about for the last hour that's how you get the inside track so thank you very much for joining me today I hope you found this informative if you have questions comments criticisms please drop them into our so my social media the links will be in the show notes after the show posts on YouTube If you um have uh you know something private you can email me my

[61:58] email address is also in the show notes and always interested to hear your comments and especially your criticisms so this is my last show for the week so uh hopefully you got to tune in um on Monday and Tuesday morning as well so next week starting on Monday at 10: am is my show trust and Estates weekly Tuesday at 10: amm these are all Pacific Time by the way business lessons from the military and then a week from today at 10 a.m. Wednesday is the next edition of people making money so I thank you again very much for joining me wishing you a wonderful rest

[62:34] of the day and rest of the week and signing off as I always do Marie darling you are my bell all the best folks