The WAY to WOW Shows
Managing Beneficiary Conflicts
August 18, 2025
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:02] Who are you? And where are you going? What do you want? [Music] Hello and welcome to Trust and Estates Weekly. I'm your host, Kevin Bemel, and I'm here every Monday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time to talk about estate planning and trust and probate administration, primarily from the standpoint of professionals who help people with these issues. uh but also

[0:37] for you if if you're dealing with your own estate and trust issues and or want to be able to speak uh more intelligently or more I shouldn't say intelligently more knowledgeably with the uh professionals who are helping you in this process. So, uh, you know, kind of timely, I guess, uh, life follows art or art follows life. I'm not sure which. I was having a conversation, uh, with a friend yesterday, and she was telling me about a situation in which she found herself

[1:15] in a dispute with the heirs uh, of an estate when she had been made a beneficiary of of the trust. It was one of the estate documents and uh had been given some other um property basically. And the children of the of the deedent uh were really ticked off about this and they they you know launched litigation and and kind of a you know a smear

[1:52] campaign. And you know, in the end, uh, my friend ended up compromising somewhat. Uh, but you could hear it in her voice. She's still, I think, at least a little bit traumatized, uh, by this experience. And unfortunately, it's not unusual. Um the knives come out when uh you know someone dies and there's uh any kind of significant money on the table and and the fact of the matter is what may be significant money

[2:28] to you is would be different for for me or for anybody else. So, uh, you know, for some people an estate of $100,000, um, if they're going to get, you know, a tenth of it, it's not going to make any real difference in their life. Whereas for other people, uh, that that would make a material difference in the quality of their life, right? So, there's no there's no way to judge an amount of money that, you know, is worth disputing in that sense.

[3:03] uh and and it it comes in all sizes and shapes. Uh but I think what it really comes down to is that um when the opportunity is there uh if an estate plan has not been properly socialized with the beneficiaries um they are more likely to create a dispute and a dispute that will have permanent damage on relationship. ships

[3:39] going forward and and I think we tend to consider disputes among beneficiaries it to happen when there is there is no will or trust when when somebody dies in testate but that is not necessarily the the case. So even when there is a a welldrawn up estate plan uh people will come up for reasons to create a dispute. Uh one of those is if for example if if the deedent made changes to the estate plan favoring

[4:17] someone who was not an heir previously. Okay. It's it's not unc it's not unusual. I I should say it's not unusual for the the heirs who were going to get more but for this you know interloper to make accusations that the deedent was not of sound mind when this change was made that there was some sort of unsavory behavior that went on between the deedent and and the new beneficiary. Now that's not to say that these things

[4:52] don't happen. Yes, they they do happen sometimes and and I have seen cases where where that has happened. Uh however, uh when when a deedent has, you know, prior to death, of course, properly drawn up estate planning documents naming a particular individual as a beneficiary that reflects the deedants's wishes. Now, you know, you People will argue, well, you know, uh, she was a gold digger and and she wormed

[5:28] her way into his confidence and and that's how she got the money. Well, that may be partly true, but it may also be equally true that she took care of this person and and devoted a significant uh part of her life to take caring to taking care of the person, gave up time, you know, freedom of action, whatever. So, you know, as as I'm fond of saying, two things can be true at the same time. Okay? Uh and you know if if a deedent wants to give

[6:05] someone money and the deedent feels that you know he or she got you know adequate services rendered well you know what it's not our money right it's their money to dispose of how they choose and and I would add by the way that often times this particular situation where the heirs are are saying well there was there was an interloper there they you know weedled their way into my you know father's good graces one of the questions I have in my mind

[6:41] is where were you while this person was doing that was your father so lonely so disconnected from familial support that someone was able to do that and if so well to a large extent that that's you know you have the responsibility for that. Uh if you had been a more supportive child uh or or or whatever you know relationship grandchild whatever it is relationship to the deedent then it's a lot less likely that that person would have weedled

[7:16] themselves into the good graces. Okay. Now again that's not to say that such things never happen um under nefarious circumstances. They certainly do. There are situations where someone is a caregiver and they get, you know, um, uh, PII um, things like social security numbers and bank account numbers. They get that information out of the person for whom they're caring. And then when that person dies, they very quickly get a hold of those accounts and and and

[7:53] spirit the money away before the administration of the estate can formally begin. And clearly that is, you know, elder abuse, it's fraud, it's it's it's all of those things. Um so, you know, there this is I I in no way am I excusing that that kind of action. Uh but where the um where the deedent has made the person a part of his estate plan and and and the distribution to that particular

[8:29] beneficiary has occurred through the normal administration of the person's estate. Well, I mean maybe there was something nefarious that went on. Uh but often times it's as much the disinterest andor neglect of the person's family members and his gratitude that someone cared enough about him to to really look after him, take care of him during the waning months, years of his life that has

[9:04] motivated him to to make this particular uh bequest, whatever it is. So some some initial food for thought about this about this issue of managing beneficiary conflicts. So, while I've talked about how conflicts arise and such, um, and and have made a few, uh, you know, mentioned a few thoughts on that just now, what I'm going to be talking about on this show is specifically what what you should do if you're the personal representative of

[9:40] the estate in order to make sure um that you are dealing with the conflict in a way that it's not going to come back and harm you. Okay, there's a certain vulnerability we have as personal representatives and when there is when there are disputes going on, uh there is no reason why the disputants will not drag the personal representative, the executive or the trustee into them if they think it's to their benefit to do so. Okay. So, uh,

[10:18] I've got a few thoughts on this topic that that I'll that I'll share with you. Um, first of all, if if the if if discussions with a beneficiary or any other party to the administration of an estate take a hostile turn, the first thing you should do is require that all further communication be in writing. Okay. The problem with verbal communication is there's no unless it's

[10:55] recorded, which in many cases would not be permitted and and andor would not be permissible in court. The problem with verbal communication is there's no way of proving what was actually said. Okay? And so by requiring that all communication be in writing specifically by the way at least email text messages in most jurisdictions I'm not giving any legal advice here but I believe this is the case text messages in most jurisdictions uh do not constitute a

[11:32] writing in the sense that they you know they um can be submitted to court as evidence of of what somebody wrote. But emails generally speaking are admissible. And so communication once once there's there appears to be some hostility developing, communication needs to be um u needs to happen solely through email. Okay? And if the person calls you up, the response is, "Send me

[12:07] an email." I understand you have something to convey. Send me an email. Okay? I've I've asked you to send me an email twice. I'm going to ask you one more time and then I'm going to hang up. Please send me an email with your concerns. Click. Okay. Um, after doing that several times, while they may still attempt to call and discuss something, um, it it will reduce when they do that. At least in my experience. Now, this can get a little more complicated when you have staff or people helping with the

[12:43] administration of the estate. Maybe there are other people involved, a real estate agent, etc. When when there are other people involved, I let those other people know, do not co do not communicate with this individual except through email. Okay? Don't have telephone conversations. Don't get into text messages. Email and email alone. And then I make it clear to the person all people associated with the administration of this estate including X Y Z A B however

[13:18] many people it is will only communicate with you by email. If you call them and attempt to discuss any matter with them, I have directed them to say to you, please submit this by email and hang up the call. Okay? Can't make it clearer than that. Okay. The reason you want that is you want to have those emails. So although they may send you voicemails, they may send you text messages. Um, I mean it

[13:53] it's, you know, it's all it's all good and well, but um and and and if they do do that, you're going to want to archive those as well if if to show nothing else that that then that you were being harassed or if they're making, you know, social media posts um that you know, hostile social media posts. Um, what you want to do is document all hostile communications and the best way to do that is through email. Now, if they send you I mean, if they call you and leave you voicemail messages, so

[14:28] you'll want to document those voicemails, including getting a timestamp on them. Uh, pardon me. If you do in-person meetings, okay, it's wise to have somebody there who is documenting the meeting. Okay, I you may not necessarily need to have a court reporter. Uh but u and these days you could have, you know, an AI bot. Um you know, especially if it's a virtual meeting, AI bots will essentially transcribe a conversation. Okay. In any

[15:04] non-email communication you have with a hostile beneficiary, I highly recommend that you in some way document that that communication. Send it to the beneficiary in an email. So this is to confirm the message that you left me on voicemail on such and such a date saying the following. put in the text. As I have informed you previously, all communication must be

[15:39] made by email and so I am not I will not be responding to this communication. This is sent to you so that you will know that to reinforce that all communication have to be sent by email. Okay. Uh same with uh text messages. just take a screenshot of the text message, send it in a confirming email that this this type of communication is is no longer permitted due to the you know whatever of the situation

[16:14] um and etc etc. Okay, social media posts do not respond to hostile social media posts. There's nothing to be gained by doing that. Okay. I I would take a a screenshot or download a PDF of them if you if you can and again send an email, okay, to the benefic to the beneficiary. Now, if there are multiple beneficiaries, if you're getting hostile communications, I would send them to all beneficiaries. And by the way, I would also copy your

[16:49] lawyer on these communications so that it's un so that everybody knows what's going on. Okay? Uh other beneficiaries may have some control over the person who's being hostile toward you and they may engage with that person and explain to them this is this is not helping the situation. it's only going to delay the administration and you're you're causing a lot of waste of time and energy. Please stop doing this or something like that. Okay, so

[17:24] that's that's kind of step number one where you're still communicating with the hostile beneficiary or beneficiaries. Uh but now you're restricting the communication solely to email and documenting all communications that you get. That's kind of like I said, step number one. Step number two is to restrict communication to your lawyer. Okay. So in this in this case you tell hostile beneficiaries you may no longer communicate directly with

[18:01] me. You may only communicate through my lawyer. Okay. Now uh you know as a personal representative you are not required to accept abusive phone calls or threatening threatening emails or or social media posts or whatever or or even defamatory uh posts or text messages or whatever. That is not part of your job description. Okay? And and so what you

[18:36] want to do is number one get those those beneficiaries who are acting hostile move the communication to your your lawyer because first of all whatever your lawyer says you are not bound by what he says. Okay? He's acting as your representative but you still are the decision maker. So it removes the decisionmaking process. uh it removes the crush of the decision-making process from you by having somebody, you know, yelling at you and demanding that you do X, Y, or

[19:11] Z. Okay, that's one thing that it does. Number two, it adds additional documentation. So if the air starts getting threatening, physically threatening or something like that, now you have grounds to go to the court and potentially get uh you know a gag order against this beneficiary or something like that in because now the beneficiary is has gone too far. They're causing a materially negative uh impact on the administration of the estate. Okay. And I would add, by the way, that

[19:47] if if if the beneficiary is getting really threatening, you have now the ability to go to the police and let them know what's going on if if if you're concerned at that level. Okay. So, next step is to channel communication uh through your lawyer. Okay. All right. Number three, take take threats to your personal safety seriously. Okay, it I don't know what the percentage is. It may be one out of a hundred that's serious.

[20:22] You don't want to be the one in a hundred. Okay, you just don't. So, if beneficiaries make threats against you personally, okay, it's one thing for them to be blowing off steam or making nasty remarks about the deedent. You know, that person is gone. Okay. um that may just be, you know, kind of blowing off steam when they start targeting you with their vitrial and threats. Okay, that I wouldn't dismiss this that I

[20:57] wouldn't dismiss those as just empty anger on their part. Okay, now they're obviously context matters. You may you may happen to know the beneficiary really well and and the two of you have a history of kind of blowing off steam in conversations and sometimes the conversations get heated and you have experience on how this person actually behaves. Okay, that may be a little bit different but the typical situation of a personal representative would be they don't particularly know the beneficiaries that well. don't know how

[21:34] they really behave and so you have to you have to take their uh you know their threats seriously. So, um, if if let's say you're an executive and you're living in the deedence deedence home, maybe you were taking care of the deedent prior to his death and you're continuing to live in the home and and maybe you know the beneficiary who's threatening you, maybe it's a sibling and that sibling has keys to the house as well. Well, I would change the locks on that home. Okay? I mean, there's

[22:09] there's no reason why you need to leave yourself vulnerable for some, you know, no notion that, well, you know, we're we're all entitled to access to, you know, mom's home. Well, once mom is deceased, if you were living there before her death, okay, in in general, you have a right to continue there after her death. Okay, there may there may be some qualifications to that. Um, but once she's not there, there is no reason for the other beneficiaries to necessarily have access to the place in which you live. So, change the locks.

[22:46] Okay. By the way, merely getting the keys of course is not is not sufficient because they may have made copies or whatever. Okay. So, change the locks. Make sure the windows s you know securely lock. Okay? Those kind of things. Um, if you have a security service, make sure the security service knows that you have received threats from a particular individual, you know, one, the beneficiary. Okay. Uh, you vary your routines. Again, this is especially important when um you're you're an executive or personal representative, a

[23:21] family member, and the other family members know you. They they know where you, you know, work out. they know where you like to have dinner every, you know, Thursday night or whatever it is. So, in those cases, vary your routine, okay? Make sure um that they're not going to catch you kind of unawares. Okay? And if you think the threats are credible, as I mentioned a moment ago, file a police report. Okay? The police may not actively do anything, but if you don't file a report

[23:57] and it happens multiple times, you know, the third or fourth time it happens, the police are as powerless to do anything as they were the first time. Okay. However, if you file three, four reports, okay, especially if the threats are escalating, now the police have the ability to do something. First of all, they can go talk to the person and and they have in front of them all the reports and they can say, "We've had four reports on threats that you've made to such and such. We're coming to investigate this." Okay, that alone may give the um uh the the beneficiary who's

[24:35] making threats uh room for or you know, room for pause. Let's take a break. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step. Magnum Properties, Inc. turning property

[25:12] challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at 213-264-4396 or visit magnumprops.com. So, pardon me. We're back at Trust and Estates Weekly. Um, and I'm talking about managing beneficiary conflict. So I talked about before the break, document all hostile communication, channel all communications through your lawyer and take your personal safety seriously. So uh next secure all estate

[25:48] assets immediately. Okay. So uh if there is uh a storage room for example, change the lock on the storage room. If they're if more than one uh if if if the beneficiaries have access online to bank accounts uh change that online access. Okay. Now it it is the fact that as a matter of course once you um once you become the personal representative of the estate whether it's you know a

[26:23] probate and and and you have letters of administration issued or whether you're a trustee and so upon the death of the prior trustee perhaps the grtor you're now the successor trustee you need to secure the assets But it's even more important when there's when one one or more of the beneficiaries are hostile because they may use their uh disgruntlement with you as grounds to you know essentially take what they want or what they think they're entitled to even though that

[27:00] that may not comport with the the administration the proper administration of the estate. Okay. So, uh, you also want to make sure that as as well as possible that they don't damage any assets. So, um, if there's, you know, artwork or that sort of thing, um, you know, you may need to have that. Let's say you have a situation where, uh, you're the personal representative and you and another beneficiary were taking care of your mother uh, prior to

[27:36] her death. Now, mom has passed away and and and the situation has turned hostile, but there is valuable property inside the home. Well, so you may need to have that property removed from the home and stored away properly to prevent it from being damaged and and also pre to prevent it from being in essence stolen by the hostile beneficiary. Okay. And of course you know the cost of doing that will be borne by the estate. And this is just one more reason why

[28:13] you know when disputes in the administration of an estate oftent time lead to you know the beneficiaries receiving less from the estate because the costs of administration have gone up. Okay. But it's certainly within your discretion uh to incur expenses for the protection of assets. Okay. So, um, if if you again, I would document all of this. Okay. Uh, and, uh, in in a an, you know, a particularly severe case where perhaps it's going to be costly, maybe there it's, you know, it's a a, you

[28:49] know, a large estate, there was quite a bit of, let's say, valuable artwork and you're concerned that, uh, the beneficiary who's living there in the house with you might do damage to it. you may want to apply to the court on an ex party basis for an instruction allowing you to spend the money it'll take to keep that artwork uh secure and you're that would be something to discuss with your lawyer but it may make sense to do that in order to maintain the value of the estate. Okay. So secure all assets of the estate immediately to

[29:25] prevent them from theft or damage. Okay. Uh next you want to uh obtain comprehensive fiduciary insurance. Now if you are not a professional that may be difficult. Okay. Uh for professional fiduciaries like me that type of coverage is available. Um it's reasonable cost, right? Um I don't know if any insurance can be said to be uh you know low cost anymore these days. Okay. Um, but you want to make sure that

[30:00] you have some kind of executives or administrators insurance. Okay. Um, and you may also want to consider some sort of personal umbrella pro policy. If if you have a high net worth or not necessarily even a high net worth, but let's say you have a net worth that would make it uh, shall we say uh, productive to sue you. Okay. So rather than leave your assets vulnerable, it may make sense to get uh a a personal umbrella policy over and above whatever uh uh executive or personal

[30:37] representative insurance policy uh you're able to obtain. Disappointed beneficiaries, they can file a lawsuit against the executive personally, okay? And you know, they may not have a case, okay? But that that doesn't mean that they can't file a lawsuit and burden you with the cost of defending that lawsuit. Okay? So, you want to make sure that you know you document everything you do and that you're properly insured. Especially

[31:12] the benefit of um fiduciary insurance is they will typically pay for for your defense in the event that you are sued because that is usually the largest cost in dealing with these suits. Um I I I can't tell you how many of them are successful. What I can tell you is the expense of litigation can be high and so that's why it's good to have that coverage. Okay. Next, you really just need to prepare yourself for character assassination. Okay. Um, you know, angry beneficiaries w can they

[31:49] will spread false accusations about your competence, your honesty. Um, they they will, you know, they will just they will just say whatever they think is necessary to punish you. even though you've done nothing wrong. Okay? I mean, unfortunately, this is an aspect of human nature and it would be great if we could inoculate ourselves against it uh and inoculate people from committing character assassination, but neither one

[32:25] of those are are are possible, at least as as the you know, according to how the world works today. Okay. Now, keep in mind that if the character assassination gets to the point where le for example, you're a professional and the character assassination is getting to the point where your professional reputation is so damaged that now, you know, people are rejecting you uh you know a in in hiring you as a professional. So at that point, you know, you may have uh grounds for a

[33:02] suit um against the person because uh you know, for for slander or for defamation of some kind. And if you have provable damages, uh you know, it may be necessary to uh have a lawyer threaten such a suit. Um and of course this is this is a legal question to deal that that you need to speak to a lawyer about uh a lawyer who is knowledgeable in this area of the law. Okay. Um my understanding is defamation suits can be very difficult to prove. On the other

[33:38] hand, sometimes a well-written timely letter from a lawyer uh threatening action if the defamation or the character assassination does not cease and desist. Sometimes that can have the proper effect. Okay. But on a kind of a broader sense, when there are disputes and unhappy beneficiaries, you need to kind of steal yourself for what is almost inevitably the the the malign maligning of your character that follows. Okay. So as best you can

[34:15] prepare for character assassination, you know, emotionally, mentally, okay? And if it gets if it gets particularly egregious, you may need to seek legal advice as to what to do to either to stop it and or be compensated if it if it's caused you a true loss. Okay. Next, um, you really need to create an absolutely unassalable legal record. So, you're going to want to work closely with your probate

[34:50] attorney to ensure that every decision you make is legally defensible and properly documented. Okay. One of the best tools for doing this is to even if you have, you know, full authority, that does not preclude you from applying to the court for some kind of instruction or confirmation of an action that that you're that you're contemplating taking. Okay. So, in that way, as you know, if if let let's say for example that um one

[35:27] or more of the beneficiaries is disputing the price at which you sold a piece of real estate. Um, so even though you may have full authority and can sell that property without court confirmation, okay, that doesn't prevent you from nonetheless applying to the court for confirmation. Okay. In so doing, you cut off their the disgruntled beneficiaries ability to somehow hold you accountable because in the end, it's

[36:04] not you who made the final decision, the court made the final decision. So although, as I mentioned earlier, they can still sue you, your lawyer will be able to basically say to the court in which you're being sued, your honor, this was the court's decision, not my client's decision. Please dismiss this this lawsuit. Okay? So, but the the way to get there and and to be able to proceed with that level of confidence is to be a is is to have just a a rock solid legal record of the work you did

[36:41] and the decisions that you made. Okay, let's take another break. Probate and Trust TV, your curated source for the most useful and insightful content on estate planning and trust and probate administration, featuring standout professionals like Bill Gross, Paul Bralet, James Cunningham, and yours truly. Whether you're a lawyer, accountant, real estate professional, or working on your own succession plan, this channel helps you quickly find the clearest, most

[37:16] practical content YouTube has to offer. Subscribe now to Probate and Trust TV. Spend more time learning, less time searching. Okay. So, we're back now again at Trust and Estates Weekly talking about how to manage uh beneficiary conflict. So, I've given several thoughts. I've got one final thought here and that is resignation is always an option. Okay.

[37:51] So um if it's get if if the disgruntled beneficiaries are getting too hostile, too threatening, okay, you have the option to resign. Now let me add this is not a pitch for you to hire someone like me who's a professional fiduciary. Okay, I you know I don't mean that. However, often times having a professional come in who's neutral and doesn't carry family baggage can reduce the amount of

[38:28] conflict. Okay? So, for example, if if you've been uh you know, if you've been named as the executive in the deedants's will or you've been you're the successor trustee and you you know going in that, you know, maybe one or more of your siblings is hostile and it's going to be a conflicted situation, you know, perhaps from the very beginning. So you do not have to accept that appointment or that successor trusteeship.

[39:04] You always have the option of u of um of petitioning the court to have someone else fill that role. Okay. Uh same with being a trustee. Unless the trust has been improperly written, uh, you have the ability to appoint a successor trustee. As a trustee, you have a you have you generally speaking have the authority to to appoint a successor. Okay? And you can do that. And that typically does not need a court hearing.

[39:40] It will require an amendment to the trust, but that can be done by a by a lawyer and it can be done pretty quickly and simply. Okay. So, you know, if you're anticipating beneficiary conflict or if you find yourself in a level of beneficiary conflict that's that's just not sustainable for you. Um, you're getting physical threats or maybe the emotional impact of it is so great you're not sleeping or look, there's all kinds of things that happen to us when we're put under, you know, very heavy

[40:15] levels of stress and anxiety. Okay? You don't need to destroy your own well-being in o in order to fulfill an obligation that you know you've been put under in a trust or or a will. Okay. So in worst case scenario uh you know look at how what it would take to resign uh and and appoint somebody else to fill the role and then talk with your lawyer and enact that plan. Okay. In in the end,

[40:54] uh there's only so much that we can do to manage beneficiary conflict. And there there are situations and I I I see them. I'm I'm in at least two of them right now that there is no way that I'm going to stop the disgruntled beneficiaries from fighting. they want to fight. I think they wake up each day. That's what they want to do. Okay. I mean, I don't think it's a great way to live.

[41:30] I don't even think it's a reasonable way to live. But but for some people, um, you know, they unfortunately they live angry lives. You'll hear the chaplain coming out of me now. This is one of the things I've discovered. Some people that anger is all they have. if they give up anger, they're they're afraid they're going to completely lose their self-identity. You can say that's sad. It's difficult. I agree with you. Uh but but it is the reality. Um you could say, well, they really need to get some therapy. Not going to disagree with you,

[42:05] but again, that that is the reality for some people. And we're unlikely it's unlikely that we're going to change that. And so in the end while we have to do our duty uh we don't need to destroy ourselves or materially diminish our lives to do so when there are other options that we can take. And so in the and this is why I left this point to you know the last one in the end resignation may be the only

[42:42] way for you to effectively deal with that conflict. And if so uh I would say figure it out and and do it and you know move on with your life in the sense of getting getting a semblance of um sanity back in your life. Uh and and and and you know, and then just support whoever it is that you essentially have take over the role from you because that person now is going to be on the firing line with the disgruntled beneficiaries.

[43:18] and to have your support will be a crucial part of that that new personal representative being able to effective as effectively as possible manage the situation. Okay, so I thank you very much for joining me today, especially my live viewers. And tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show, Business Lessons from the Military. And on Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time is my show, People Making Money. So, two more times this week to for us to be

[43:54] together. Uh, once again, thank you very much for joining me. Wishing you a wonderful rest of the day and signing off as I always do. Marie darling, you are my bell. Courage at all times.