The WAY to WOW Shows
Comprehensive Negotiations for a Job
May 31, 2023
Automatically generated from YouTube captions; names and wording may contain errors.

[0:14] foreign good afternoon my computer is blinging and beeping and all of that kind of stuff good afternoon and welcome to people making money one of the way to wow shows I'm your host Kevin bemel and it is 12 30 p.m Wednesday Pacific Time or 3 30 p.m eastern time and we're here every week to talk about matters related to careers starting a business running a business buying personal finances and Building Wealth so today

[0:52] I'm going to talk about the Myriad of issues that both employers and employees need to consider when they're negotiating over a job and this is uh it's actually chapter 39 in my book for for those of you who may have it um and I I think it's it's important to go through this for both sides of of of the uh the process because with with the tight labor market

[1:28] we have now I think employers can expect employees to be um more concerned about a broader range of issues and uh to negotiate harder for those things and I think that if you were looking for a job or planning on changing a job it's it's good for you to know the full range of issues that could be of concern with respect to a position so that even if one or more of them aren't particularly important to you

[2:04] okay fine but at least you know they're there and you had a chance to make an informed decision about that particular aspect so I'm gonna um go ahead and bring up this section of my book so I have several several chapters on what to do once you've gotten a job offer and this is one of them okay and and so what am I doing here there we go yeah it doesn't want to do it try one

[2:40] more time okay there we go okay so what I recommend you do is for each job offer that you get that you make a list of those issues that are important to you and what you may already know about them in terms of previous discussions you've had with various people at the organization and then you can figure out what is what is left to work

[3:15] out okay so um in in each of these issues there's really two questions that you want to answer for yourself okay one is what you expect to get now that's diff that may be different than what you ask for okay so let's just take a real basic one salary okay you may you may you know you may ask for a hundred thousand dollars a

[3:50] year but you may only expect that you're gonna get you know 85 000 or something like that now if you expect to get a hundred thousand dollars a year you you may be you know Wise to ask for maybe 105 or 110 000 a year okay so that's one issue you want to consider is what you expect to get and and how that will impact your negotiations and the second is why is your expectation reasonable Okay so

[4:28] if let's just say for the sake of discussion um you know you're you're being offered a job as a barista and your salary expectations are a hundred thousand dollars a year I think your expectations are not reasonable now one of the ways you could find out is to go on a site like indeed or excuse me Glassdoor and see what are companies paying what are people getting for that particular

[5:03] job in the area where you're looking okay so if if it were the case that Baristas were routinely getting let's say ninety five thousand dollars a year okay and you want a hundred thousand dollars a year so you might make the case well my expectation is reasonable because the labor market is tight and businesses are having a hard time hiring Baristas and so they're gonna have to you know up what they've been willing to pay staff in order to get them to take a job that's a perfectly reasonable basis

[5:41] for your expectation okay um in in other situations you know frankly your expectation may not be reasonable and so even though you've gotten a job offer um you know your negotiations probably won't go that well because you're what you're asking for is is just not reasonable and you're either going to have to rethink your position or you know face uh you know making some big concessions as as the negotiations proceed

[6:16] so the first issue um that that I think you want to consider is your job description now this may be already set um it may have been part of what you learned during the process where you're meeting with various people in the organization about the job okay that having been said um you may see things within the job description that you don't like to do or don't want to do for some reason

[6:52] um they're they're you know there may be a lot of travel involved or something and and and maybe that just doesn't work for you or you want to put limits on it um if you have children maybe you don't want to be traveling very much so you'll do some traveling but you want to put limits on how much travel is required within your job description okay so um and then the flip side is there may be things that are not in your job description that are going on within the company or organization and you want an opportunity to be involved in those

[7:27] things so in that case you may want to negotiate to add something to your job to the job description okay now if there's no set job description it it may fall on you to write some something because you need to understand you know what are you responsible for doing what is your decision-making authority to whom do you report who reports to you what are your responsibilities all of those things need to be clear otherwise both you and the employer are setting

[8:03] each other up for potentially failure right and if you're an employer being clear about what your expectations are for this new person you're hiring is going to make it a lot easier to onboard the person and have them successfully integrate into your organization okay okay so that's job description next title Okay so Idols are they are important okay that that's just the bottom line now they

[8:38] they get more important as you advance up the ranks so obviously to have the title of President is much better than to have the title of director or manager okay so what is your title going to be in how does that title relate to the the duties and responsibilities you have as well as the people with whom you're going to interact both inside the company and people outside the company right so banks are famous for making everybody a vice president assistant vice president vice president

[9:15] um uh Executive Vice President uh like like super there's there's another one in there I forget what it is but anyway there's all these everybody at the bank is a vice president basically and it's to give them some standing as they deal with customers of the bank it's cetera okay so while a company may not want to go to that degree I think we do want to consider carefully the titles that we're giving people because they they have uh an impact on how how effective someone

[9:50] can be in their job how they how they can deal with clients and customers Etc okay and they also they matter to people I mean there is prestige in you know being a vice president as opposed to a manager okay so so um that's another another issue to keep in mind it it's connected to job description but it's it may need to need to be dealt with separately okay next to whom you'll report so in this case we're really dealing with

[10:26] how many how much influence is the person likely to have within the business or organization okay so someone who is able to report directly to the president or CEO is going to have a lot more influence right on what happens in the company as opposed to someone who reports to an assistant vice president or reports to an area manager or something like that so and such things can be very important okay so we we tend to think that salary

[11:02] is the most important issue and and while it may be the most important issue it doesn't mean that it's the only important issue and it doesn't mean that there aren't other issues that coupled with salary May afford you as a as as the you know person doing the hiring to perhaps not have to pay as high a salary in exchange for the person having a bigger impact on what may happen within the company more uh decision-making Authority more ability

[11:37] to affect the decisions of the people who are senior to them in the organization so um you know I mean these days I think most companies are um flattening out their um their their um sort of chains of command to use a military term right and they're getting rid of more and more of sort of middle managers right and that's a good thing because information can flow up and down the ranks more readily when there's

[12:12] fewer people in between number one and just like with the game of telephone information can get past more accurately when it's passing through fewer hands okay so for again for both sides of the issue this is a very important um you know a very important uh decision to make now again it may already be decided that this person is going to be reporting to you know the executive eye president for you know human resources or whatever over okay but there may

[12:49] still may be no some negotiating room there and there may be it depending on like if you have a compliance job okay it may be that although you're going to report to the vice president of compliance it you know you may be able to negotiate that in certain cases you're able to report directly to the president when when there's a problem or when you think that there's you know something going on from a compliance issue that that isn't being uh handled correctly okay so those are all issues to give some thought to okay

[13:26] and that flows quickly into autonomy Authority and responsibility so especially in dealing with younger people they are much more concerned with the impact they can have on an organization from the get-go then perhaps any generation that's you know that's been involved in the American you know workplace ever and and and I I suspect that this is the same thing in the in the workplaces when in in Europe and and

[14:02] Asia as well younger people want to feel that they are they they have a stake in the organization with which they're Associated okay so that that has a big impact then on how much autonomy Authority and responsibility they seek now there's trade-offs right for someone who's new to the job world does it make sense to give them a lot of autonomy and a lot of authority and responsibility maybe maybe not okay the

[14:38] the key thing I think is to um make sure it's clear where at what point they can make decisions and at what point they need to get authorization from the person to whom they report okay so make it clear for them where that is and if there are gray areas then be clear this is a gray area it's going to be a judgment call and it's going to be up to you whether to seek input from your senior whether

[15:14] to refer it to them for a decision okay and and people want to know that if they make a decision their their supervisor is going to back them up so if you're somebody's supervisor you need to be clear where your limit is in terms of backing that person up okay so you don't want to get in this into a situation where it's unclear they've gone ahead and made a decision on their own responsibility and now you don't

[15:50] want to stand behind that decision but if you sort of you know throw them under the bus that's going to cause a big big problem okay and and in many cases I think you can count on people being reasonable in the sense of understanding their autonomy their Authority their responsibility is going to grow over time and talking about how is that growth going to work okay so uh you know as the relationship matures as more and more trust grows between

[16:26] people so then their ability to make autonomous decisions can grow as well okay so as important as it is to Define where this level is it's it's equally important for people to understand how will that grow okay how can I gain more autonomy more responsibility okay both of those need to be carefully considered next okay salary so

[17:04] this is obviously going to be one of the biggest concerns most people who are looking for a job are doing so because they need to earn money in order to live or in order to support themselves and their families right so the best thing you can do and I I mentioned a little bit about this before for both sides is to understand what is the market currently paying for a position like the one that's being discussed okay in the location where the

[17:39] person lives okay unless they're going to have to relocate for the job so in California almost everywhere you live it's it's expensive than most other places in the country right and so if you're hiring someone in California and they're going to have to live in California either because that's where your organization is located or they're going to be working remotely so there has to be an understanding of you know if a sales rep in um uh Indiana makes you know seventy five thousand dollars a year great um

[18:16] that may be a perfectly fine salary to make or perfectly fine income to make in Indiana I can tell you here in Los Angeles that that is not going to take you very far okay first of all taxes in California are one of the highest of uh you know among the 50 United States in fact I think currently they are the highest okay so that's going to have an impact uh real estate costs are very very high whether you own or rent doesn't matter they're very very high so 75 000 a year just does not go nearly as

[18:52] far as it does in a you know a Midwestern State or in uh you know a state in the Southeast for the most part okay you know there are areas that are catching up Miami is becoming more and more expensive um uh the Washington DC area more and more expensive okay um but I I you know I think in terms of cost the highest ones are you know New York Los Angeles what Chicago San Francisco probably um so you know that all has to be taken into account when you're dealing with salary all right and and again there's

[19:29] lots of um places you can go on the internet now you can search based on job titles job descriptions and see what what companies are offering what companies are paying so that you can so that there can be a rational basis for um discussion as opposed to excuse me I want this well we only want to pay that and you know the twain can't meet all right start date so this is uh particularly important well I

[20:06] I actually I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna withdraw that that comment it's it's going to be important no matter what if the person isn't working they may be very desirous of starting as soon as possible right especially if they've been out of work for a long time they're going to want to most likely get back to work in other cases they may be currently in a job and so they're going to have to give at least two weeks notice or at least a week's notice or whatever but maybe they need to give a month's notice or maybe they're in a situation where for various reasons it they need a couple of months before they're going to be able to leave so

[20:41] start date is going to be um difficult now by the same token the company you may have an immediate demand for somebody you need somebody who can start right away so if you've got someone who's currently in a job and they're in the midst of a big project and they cannot you know justify leaving that that current company for at least a month or two and you need someone to start next week you know that's a problem now maybe there's a way of working it out maybe the person can you know work part-time in the new job in the evenings and on weekends getting things going while they finish

[21:16] fulfilling their commitment to their current company maybe that's a workable solution in any event start date should be clear okay and it shouldn't be well you'll start sometime next next week you'll start you know Wednesday of next week you'll start in you know two weeks from today or you'll start uh July 1st or whatever it is should be very very clear okay all right next is benefits now this can run a huge huge gamut and some of the things we're going to talk about farther down the list you might include

[21:52] in benefits um but I'm going to talk about some of the general ones so the most common are health insurance dental insurance or medical care that that's that's pretty common these days now you know how the health insurance Works varies a lot in in large companies they may have a plan that has virtually no out-of-pocket expense for their employees um or they may have a plan where where you've got a policy with a very high deductible but they match that with some

[22:27] kind of health savings account or some sort of account that's established that pays for you know that gap between what the insurance covers and and what otherwise would be out of pocket there's lots of creative ways now that insurance is being dealt with because it's gotten so much more expensive okay and they may offer Dental Care they may offer Eye Care prescription drug uh you know care um they may offer physical therapy all kinds of different things and it's got to be well understood by both employer

[23:05] and employee the extent of that care okay another thing may be life insurance now typically the amount of life insurance you're going to get as an employee it might be you know a month or two of of salary and it's there so that if you know God forbid you die your family doesn't lose you know in essence doesn't lose the income immediately but rather this life insurance policy gives them a a couple of months in order to sort of get things sorted out okay now the flip side is um

[23:40] uh there may be k-man Insurance okay and this is actually really more of a benefit to the company so if you're particularly beneficial to the company they may want to insure you so that if God forbid you die um and all of a sudden they've got this huge gap um you know in their in their Workforce that uh whatever loss the company May sustain um you know they're they're getting some recompense for it so so in terms of benefits your insurability may be an issue now if it's group benefits that's

[24:15] generally not a problem because since you're part of the group you're eligible for these benefits along with everybody else at the company but for something like He-Man insurance now you have to be you might have to pass a medical exam or other things okay and so now how all these benefits gets worked out gets more complex okay now there's there's there's other benefits again that we'll we'll talk about things like you know you're going to get a car um you know are you going to get a you know a a clothing allowance those kind of things so well I think those are

[24:50] farther down on the list um but but keep in mind um oh oh so another big benefit um is is there some kind of pension plan or some kind of more more likely these days a retirement plan as opposed to a pension plan very very very few companies have defined benefit pension plans anymore I think well certainly a lot of governments still do but even in the military they are shifting to sort of a hybrid defined benefit pension

[25:25] um retirement plan uh um formula if you will and most most companies these days private companies anyway they all have a 401k plan or something like that and they now there may be some kind of matching so if you if you you know contribute 100 a month the company will match it to 50 or whatever that is or they'll match it up to a certain amount and you can put in more than that amount but they'll only match up to you know 200 a month or whatever where that is okay all of that again needs to be worked out it needs to be clear so that the person understands

[26:02] is there a vesting period in other words do they have to be does the employee have to be working at the company for a certain period of time before they're eligible to participate in the retirement plan or for that matter even to get a health insurance okay and do they have to be in the plan for a certain amount of time before those benefits will go with them if they leave okay now if it's a plan that they've paid into almost for sure they're going to be able to take that money with them if they leave okay but where is that money being

[26:38] invested is it being invested in the company's stock right and so now you're leaving the company okay I'm investing all this Company's stock but I'm not at the company anymore I don't you know I want to diversify my retirement account or something are you know are you able to do that those are all questions that need to be asked and need to be understood as you negotiate your compensation package okay now next is evaluations so this is really they go by many different names progress reports in in

[27:14] the Navy we called them Fitness reports um they have a different name in the in the Army and I'm I'm going up on what the name is but on the event it is the periodic review of how you're doing at the company how you're doing in your job and they have a direct impact on a whether you're going to be retained in the position B whether you're going to be promoted see whether you're going to get a salary increase okay so they're very very important and how are they going to be done so I I will tell you as as crazy as this

[27:51] sounds um to you know people who who are not familiar with the military system in in my career as a military chaplain with only maybe one or two exceptions I wrote my own evaluation so now having said that it was submitted to my commanding officer and they usually changed things but oftentimes they didn't know the full extent of all the things that I was doing at their command and so they couldn't accurately

[28:28] evaluate what you know how good a job I had done because they just didn't know things because like you have something in the Navy called a command master chief that's the senior enlisted person in the command and chaplains generally work very closely with this person and that that person will know a lot oftentimes will know a lot more about day to day what the chaplain is doing interacting with Personnel than the commanding officer will and so you know these things have to be brought to the commanding officer's attention so that an accurate Fitness report evaluation

[29:05] can be written okay now I don't ever recall in my I you know civilian career preparing my own evaluation although the fact of the matter is I rarely work for someone else in my civilian career um but but nonetheless um you know there should be some kind of interactive process before your evaluation is finalized okay so you know if the company has a situation where the

[29:42] your supervisor you know writes your evaluation you meet with them and then they tell you okay here's your evaluation and that's it boy that that's that's a pretty tough thing to deal with what if you know you have conflict with your supervisor what if you've been tasked with a project that just turns out to be much more difficult than anybody anticipated how are those kinds of things going to be dealt with and what if you're doing a job where you interact with a lot of people at a company not just the supervisor like in my case as

[30:18] being you know being a chaplain you're super amazing supervisor may not know the full extent of your impact on the company and so there there should be a process of understanding what you've done what progress you've made what accomplishments you've had Etc to make sure that whoever is ultimately responsible for your evaluation has as full a picture of of your of your work as possible okay and and again it should be pretty clear what that is what that process is okay

[30:54] next is growth and promotion opportunities so while you know you you don't want to appear uh probably as an employee too eager to you know be promoted or whatever to get out of the the job that you're currently um talking about nonetheless um is if if you are concerned about your ability to grow within the company so that should be discussed up front the reality is there are some jobs where you're just not going to have much

[31:30] growth opportunity so for example if you're coming in as uh uh like a senior accounting person and um the you know the the um the leadership in that department is all by people who have been there for you know five to ten years they're well entrenched they have no intention of leaving um and they're all relatively young so they're not going to be you know retiring or anything anytime soon foreign is that really a situation that you want to get yourself into where

[32:05] there's little if any growth or promotion opportunity now by the way it may be the case that there's not any or there's not much opportunity within the department that you're joining but maybe as a company they they will allow you to look at sort of parallel moves or moves that are sort of parallel but but a promotion as well into a different department that that can take that can use the skills that you have your experience in the company um you know and in perhaps a different way okay so you know growth doesn't have

[32:42] to be narrowly defined it can be more broadly defined in the organization okay so this is another aspect and and there in the end there may not you know be anything clearly defined about what growth and promotion opportunities there are um but even if there's an informal agreement that um you know you'll be considered for promotion after six months so this can also be a good way to to sort of you know sniff out how things really work at

[33:18] the company so if the person who who hires you um tells you well look I I can't guarantee you a promotion in six months but here's what I can do I can guarantee you that you'll be considered for a promotion in six months um and and and we'll evaluate you at that time or you know if a position in your department opens up that would that would be appropriate for your progression so you'll be considered for that opportunity okay and let's say

[33:54] you accept that as as a you know an Unwritten part of of of your employment situation and let's say you know you find out hey you know somebody kind of one step up for me is is leaving and I um you know I've been here now for six months and or I've been here for seven months and and I I I've gotten to know my job well I've gotten to know the company well and you know you either you know kind of wait and see if you're contacted about the position or you go to your

[34:29] supervisor and say Hey or do you go to the person who hired you hey remember when you hired me you said I'd be considered for an opening that came up in the department you know I I heard that such and such a person is leaving in a couple of weeks and you know I want to throw my hat in the ring so you know how they handle that will be um an important indication of what kind of company you're working for so if if they say to you oh you know we've already filled it Oh I thought I was going to be considered well you know there was someone ideal for the job and and so you know it was given to them you

[35:05] know last week or it was it was given to them before the person announced that they were leaving well okay I mean that happens but but that doesn't sound like the person making good on what they told you the flip side may be that they say hey great I'm you know I'm glad you brought this up I I needed to get in touch with you about this you know we need to arrange for your supervisor to to do an evaluation and submit that so then you can be considered for the position right those are very different ways of responding to that same informal

[35:40] agreement and it tells you something about the people with whom you're working and about the company okay all right next is vacation time now I used the term vacation time but more broadly it's you know time off paid or otherwise so you may have a certain amount of paid vacation you may have uh sick days or you may just have what they call personal days so you don't necessarily have to be sick but you've got a certain number of days you can call in and say hey I won't be in today and and you're still paid your salary you may also be eligible for a certain

[36:16] number of unpaid days you may be eligible for maternity or paternity leave all of these things come into um how this issue is dealt with now there's there's a a at least two or three different uh we'll call them standards one is what Federal Law requires okay the next is what state law requires and then there's what's standard if you will practice in your

[36:51] industry okay and you want to find out what each one of those requires so that when you go in to talk about this you may be offered you know a week of vacation time a year no maternity leave you know no sick days or five sick days or whatever it is and and you may say the person hey my understanding is is is that state law requires that I get you know two months of maternity of paid maternity leave and I'm entitled to you

[37:27] know 10 personal days a year or 10 sick leave days a year whatever that is so or by the way there may be a Union contract in which case a lot of this stuff is you know somewhat Superfluous because the Union contract will dictate all of this um but but nonetheless if if you're being hired into a position where you know parts of it are unionized and parts of it are not so then the Union contract May set somewhat of a standard for what people in the kind of job you're looking at get okay now you may not get quite as much as you get if you were a union

[38:04] member okay because of you know various different things on the other hand you may be able to negotiate something better because you're not in the union and so the company views it as having more flexibility more ability to sort of tailor things depending on what your position requires so all of that needs to be examined and understood Again by both employer and employee in order to make as good an employment agreement as possible okay next office and flexible work

[38:39] locations so you know no surprise you know remote work appears to be here to stay so you know is is is your job going to be 100 remote are you going to be required to be in the office five days a week is it some kind of hybrid what is that are you going to be are you is it going to be necessary for you to work in more than one office location okay so this this is becoming um more common so um uh one of my doctors has offices in I think four locations in in California

[39:16] three in Southern California one in Northern California honestly how he deals with that I don't know what I do know is he rotates between the locations and in fact so do some of his stuff so sometimes I'll call the number and I'll be talking to the person and and she'll be in Orange County and and I might call the next week on a different day of the week and now she's up here and you know in in Beverly Hills so how is that going to work for your location are you going to have to be going out to visit clients and customers okay or do they come to

[39:51] see you um if you're going to be you know selling automobiles for a dealership is part of your work going to be to deliver those automobiles to to buyers okay that again that's becoming more common um the last two cars I bought in both cases they were brought to my house I never went to the dealership okay um in one case someone from the dealer brought it out in the other case um I I have a friend who's a car broker car buyer and so in the second case he brought the car uh to my house so all of

[40:28] these are issues when it comes to office and you know in terms of work location I should say and how much flexibility do you have to decide whether you're going to go into the office or not and a lot of businesses a lot of organizations are struggling with that right now so they they've recognized there's a value to their business to having people in the office on the other hand given the labor shortage they're reluctant to in some cases to impose work location requirements and so that's a much more negotiable Factor than it probably has

[41:04] ever been before okay now going with office work location is flexible scheduling right again this was a big thing that came up uh during the covid time so what hours do you have to work are you expected to be on the you know what used to be standard you know nine to five work day okay um these days my sense is a lot of people are not on that nine to five thing anymore okay now especially for people who are working from home while they may need to be able to answer a

[41:40] call during the regular work day they may be able to do work in the evenings they may be able to do it on the weekends or very early mornings or whatever um and as long as they get their work done that's really what matters okay and now in terms of flexible scheduling too if you're in a job let's say you're doing recruiting well so depending on who you're recruiting working during the day may not work very well because cause people are working at other jobs and so for them to have time to speak and meet with you they just can't because they're not going to talk to a potential new

[42:16] employer while they're at their current employer's place of business or while they're expected to be working for their other employer so it may be that you know you are going to have to be working evenings and weekends more right that's that's truly also for someone like a residential real estate agent okay they're going to be working evenings and weekends because that's typically when people tend to have time to go look at you know potential homes to buy now if that also depends so for people who like here in Los Angeles people a lot of people were in the entertainment business so nine to five isn't necessarily what they're working

[42:51] so they may have time all during the week or whatever all of that has to be understood and it needs to be worked out there needs to be agreement there now by the way both sides may need to exercise some flexibility even once an agreement has been reached as the business changes as situations change etc etc so just because something is in an agreement and even if that agreement is written that doesn't mean that there can't be flexibility as you know time goes by so that things will work better

[43:27] for for both parties involved okay so you know if if you're the employee and and and you know you set your working hours eight to three because you want to be able to go pick up your child from school and then be home in the afternoon and evening with your child that probably needs to be understood up front with your employer so that they understand you know when it comes to my my schedule I I don't have flexibility okay I have I have child care requirements or maybe you have an adult that you take care of an elderly adult okay and you're responsible for taking

[44:02] care of them all all that needs to be understood up front to avoid conflict down the road okay I'm travel now I I mentioned travel uh uh or toward the beginning of this show and and there's you know look it can be as little as you may be asked to attend some kind of annual conference for for the company okay and it's not absolutely required although it's you know highly encouraged kind of thing

[44:37] um to Scrabble is a part of the day-to-day work that you're going to be doing right if you're going to be in uh aircraft sales um I think you're going to be traveling Often by the way same if you're in pharmaceutical sales you're going to be going out to doctors offices hospitals whatever um now you in that in the in the in the latter case you may be traveling fairly locally within your your territory if you're in aircraft sales you may be traveling all over the world it just you know depends on where your customers are

[45:12] at now these days with things like zoom and such maybe you know you're not going to have to travel as much but you may have to go to air shows to meet perspective customers and do do networking and prospecting and all of that how is that all gonna work okay um are you gonna like for take the very first example again going to an annual conference is your company going to pay for you to go or is that why they're not making it mandatory because they're not going to pay for you to go so they highly encourage you to go but you're gonna have to pay for yourself or maybe you know you you have to pay for the airfare

[45:48] but there's you know you get a special rate on the hotel or whatever and maybe meals are going to be supplied but you know you got to pay airfare and lodging or whatever it is again all of that should be understood up front so you know what the expectations are for you now I remember this is when I was still in the Navy um I I was given a Billet at an air Wing this is the this is the you know the it's a group of of uh squadrons that then Deploy on an aircraft carrier and the Air Wing is the sort of overarching

[46:25] organization to the individual Squadron so I was talking to the chaplain that I was replacing and he was telling me that when you know when he was on deployment at each Port call he chipped in for it was like a a hotel room where people socialized and they bought booze and whatever food and all this kind of stuff and he routinely spent something like a thousand dollars per Port call I'm like well how many poor calls you do he said oh gosh I think we did eight or ten like so you spent between eight and ten thousand dollars on that alone while you

[47:01] were deployed he's like yeah it was great no big deal and and I'm like I'm thinking to myself wow that you know because in in the military unless you're traveling you know on leave or something if you're traveling for work everything's being paid you know you're getting a meal allowance you're paying lodging air you know uh you know flight rental car whatever it is it's all being paid for I'm thinking to myself I don't know if I like this and I thought about you know canceling um or seeing if I could get out of the

[47:36] job and and I talked to someone else I think it was someone else at the Air Wing I think it may have been at the the the the the fellow who was the um um Deputy commander of the Air Group who later then became he became the the uh airwing commander and my boss and I talked to him about that he said he said no no it's it's not required don't worry about that he said I've rarely done that on deployment and I've been on 10 of them like uh okay all right so you know I'm not saying that the other fellow gave me bad information he was just giving me the information from his perspective what worked for him so you

[48:13] know make sure that you get you know get information from more than one source if possible so you understand the full picture of these things okay um you know there may be what the person who will be your supervisor is telling you and there may be what someone who's had the job will tell you and they may not be exactly the same right so it'd be good to get both those perspectives all right now by the way you may want to travel right and and and you may want that to be a part of your job or you may want the opportunity to travel to be a

[48:49] part of your work so then maybe if it's not but you feel there are opportunities within what you're doing that traveling will make it better easier for you to do your job or it'll make it easier for you to do a better job so then that's something to talk about you know as you are negotiating your overall compensation package maybe you can negotiate that the company will send you to conferences twice a year and they'll pay the airfare and the lodging you you have to cover meals or whatever because you would have had to have paid to eat anyway and that gives you an opportunity to travel that you otherwise wouldn't

[49:26] have had or or you know would have had to pay for yourself or taking time off from your job and use you know used vacation time or whatever to travel and now instead you know the company will will give you those opportunities so again it's it's it's especially in these days when the labor market is so tight you may have more leverage in these things than you than you would during a time where you know the labor market is not nearly as tight as it is now okay all right and I think that is oh here we go there's at least one more so daycare

[50:02] reimbursement okay um if you have if you have children okay and and they're um may be too young to go to school or maybe they they might go to you know nursery school for a couple of hours uh you know and and maybe you're a single parent or both parents work so then how are you going to take care of your children right when if you're not working from home or even if you are working from home and you need to be able to dedicate your attention to doing your job so what are you going to do about your children right and and I I just I've heard

[50:39] anecdotally companies appear to be much more flexible about this than they have been so I know the daughter of a friend of mine she works I believe it's three days out of the week at home she has a a child and so what she does is she gets a nanny who comes in for for several hours each of the three days she works at home so you know she doesn't have to be concerned about that her that her her son is you know there's nobody there to to take care of him or to deal with his needs um and then you know I think the last

[51:15] couple of hours of her work day I think the nanny leaves and and she arranges her schedule such that she has she's working but you know she doesn't have meetings and that kind of thing and and that's doable um and and it's that's workable from her employer's standpoint in this case they're not I don't think they're reimbursing her at all but they are accommodating her work schedule as part of her daycare requirements okay so they're not making any you know monetary outlay but they are you know being flexible and and and that that's a kind

[51:50] of non-monetary reimbursement if you will okay now some companies have uh you know daycare right there on the campus where the offices are so maybe you know you can bring your child to work with you that's that that in the military uh most bases nowadays have daycare centers okay now this may not be an issue if your children are old enough to go to school okay so you know you you're drop them at school on your way to work or whatever or or they however they get to school the bus or whatever okay um so daycare reimbursement or you may not have children so then it's not an

[52:26] issue right at all um although I guess if you have you know a pet that doesn't like to be home alone so then maybe you have you know doggy care issues or something like that I can imagine that companies are you know perhaps a little more open to that than they would have been even a few years ago um and perhaps that's something that you can raise you know it depends on how much negotiating leverage you think you have okay so um you know I I have I don't have a pet and my daughter's in high school so it's not an issue for me me um and but you know in any event it's

[53:03] something to consider okay finally uh tuition reimbursement so does your company have any kind of educational opportunities uh for you so um Starbucks for example has a program well they will pay for their employees to go to college okay and I I I I don't know the the details of it um however um you know if if you're in a job where it's kind of an entry-level job and and you want an opportunity to advance

[53:39] through the company and one of the things you'll need to do that is a degree so then that's an important issue for you to to talk to um the person you know the hiring manager about what is available there or what can be negotiated there now let's say by the way that um you've completed your college education and and maybe you have big student loans what might the employer do with respect to helping you pay those loans okay um now if you're let's say you're a doctor okay and you're considering going

[54:16] to a a place where they're having maybe it's in a rural location where they're having trouble getting Quality Healthcare professionals so maybe they're willing to um reimburse some or all of you know your medical school cost um it you know it depending on how long you're there so maybe you know the uh if if you stay stay for 10 years at the end of each year they will pay off you know one tenth of your you know Medical School College uh loans or something like that or or maybe they'll pay off a

[54:52] 20th and you'll pay off the 20th and so after 10 years they're all paid off or however that might work okay so all of that should be discussed and and again just like all these other issues during times like now in a tight labor market you may have more leverage on these issues than you will at a time when there's a lot more unemployment and and and there's you know more than one person per job available right now it's the opposite way there's more than one job available for people right but at some point that will change and then you

[55:28] know as an employee your negotiate negotiating leverage will will go down now as an employer right now you have you have less leverage than you might have had in the past and so you may need to consider some of these things like day care reimbursement tuition reimbursement they may be incentives to get good people okay young people coming out of college today have typically a lot of debt um I you know now days one year of I think even public you know University

[56:04] tuition is higher than I think the whole four-year my whole four-year degree cost me and I went to USC a private university but I went to USC back in the late 70s and early 80s so the tuition was you know was was much less and tuition has just gotten much much higher now so it's a it's a bigger issue for young people who are coming out of college so you know again something to con consider maybe there's a standard in the industry that you're joining that they do these kind of things so what is that and if if you're not offered that

[56:40] up front why are you not offered that up front and and I think it would be a good question to say gee you know I researched this industry and my understanding is that after being at a company for three years they will generally pay off you know 20 percent of of uh you know outstanding college debt or 20 percent of you know original loan amounts or whatever it is I noticed this isn't part of the offer why is that the case and and let them explain it okay by the by the way if a company will not even address a question like that

[57:15] I I think that that's a sign that you may you may want to dig deeper something's going on there there shouldn't be anything wrong with you asking a question and if the company doesn't like that maybe that's not a good place to work that that shows an awful lot of inflexibility uh especially these days given the you know the hunt for for good employees that's uh that that so many companies are on okay so I would encourage you to ask questions

[57:50] um as opposed to you know making demands um and if you get a good answer okay so okay that makes sense or if if you don't get a good answer say gosh I I honestly I don't understand that rationale um is there another I mean is there something else you know going on and and and maybe they can explain it a different way and if not I would start asking people um not necessarily people in the company but I'd start asking people in the industry hey what's the deal with this company it seems like every other company offers tuition reimbursement in

[58:25] some way and they absolutely refuse to do it okay and you may find out some things you didn't know oh yeah you know they play such hard ball and and it doesn't end once you work there okay good information to know all right uh wardrobe and Equipment allowance now for most people this may not be an issue but if you're some kind of technician um or you're you're you know you're a plumber electrician right um my impression is more and more companies these days are providing their

[59:01] service technicians with branded clothing so you know they'll they'll wear uh whatever from um I had to have some Plumbing work done on my home uh a couple of weeks ago and and all of them had you know not only just you know shirts with I think it was A1 Plumbing I want to say um but they also had their own names on the shirts which was very impressive I mean I I frankly think that's that's really professional and and it's also nice because you know the fellow comes out to you know do work and and you know he'll introduce themselves but if you're like me I I have a hard time retaining

[59:36] names right so this name is on it so I can I could address him you know I mean he's a human being we can you know hey one of them is named Kevin as a matter of fact so that was easy to remember but I could say Hey you know Hey Kevin um you know I I you know you've been out here working do you can I get you some water or something you know have a beer at the end of the day or whatever but you know whatever you can address them um cordially and and and I I I personally like that I think that's a good thing so um now you know if you're gonna be you know like crawling under houses or something I mean are they going to

[60:11] provide you with the gear you need with with you know masks or or coveralls or whatever um you know look flight attendants right they're required to wear a uniform presumably the airlines provide those presumably they also pay to have them cleaned I I I honestly I don't know I just assume that that's the case um so again all of this you know is there a uniform is there special protective gear that's necessary to do the job who supplies it who pays for it okay just because the company supplies it I wouldn't assume that they're paying

[60:47] for it they may you know deduct it from you know your your pay over the first month or something like that who pays for it initially who pays for upkeep who plays pays for replacement if something is damaged or broken whatever or becomes worn out who's going to pay for all of that okay maybe they only pay for it the first time and then Replacements are on you or or whatever it is who's going to pay if something gets lost right now I can imagine the company would say wait a minute if you lose something you're going to have to pay to replace it as an incentive to not lose stuff right on the other hand if something is damaged while

[61:22] you're working I don't know it would seem to be reasonable to for an employee to say hey um I you know I'm doing this you know doing the work so you know you have to pay to replace it now if you're doing some kind of fee splitting um in terms of of work so who knows I mean there's probably as many different ways as that can be agreed to as there are compensation arrangements so um again the the key thing is to if is to understand a is it an issue if so what are the parameters of the issue how will they be dealt with coming to an

[61:57] agreement probably you know making sure something is done in writing so that there's no misunderstanding down the road oh wow and that's okay let's see I think okay so I'm we're going to go a little bit over time but I want to cover these so Transportation um there are companies that will sometimes pay for you to use public transportation they may give you a car allowance they may give you a car especially if you have a job that requires you to travel in the local area okay so you know if you're I I use the

[62:33] example of a pharmaceutical rep it's at least it used to be not uncommon for companies to give their reps a car um that then the company pays to maintain and then the the uh um the sales rep has uh uh you know like a company credit card to buy gas or whatever okay so again if that's part of you what you're doing um then you know make sure that that's that's covered okay um and then housing okay this is a fairly unusual um in the in the civilian sector I think

[63:08] however if you're some kind of traveling professional a traveling nurse other Healthcare professional if you have to travel and be on a you know be out of town for a significant period of time you know what is the housing situation are you going to stay in one of the extended stay hotels um do you have the ability to you know rent an apartment short term how is that all going to work who's going to pay for it do you have to advance the money and get paid back is the company going to rent the facility for you okay now if you're clergy sometimes with clergy you know there will be a residence that's even attached to the church and so that

[63:45] comes as part of the job so how is that going to work and by the way what are the tax consequences of these housing arrangements okay they can vary from state to state right federal policy will be whatever it is but state to state it could be different so make sure you understand those before you reach a final agreement and I think this is the last one yes here you go uh severance package so what happens if you leave the company either if you're laid off if you're fired if you

[64:22] um choose to take a different you quit to choose and choose to take another job or retire what is your severance package you know do you get Cobra on your health insurance which means you can maintain your health insurance by paying for it yourself for a certain period of time after you leave the company um do you lose certain benefits if you get fired okay like you're any retirement benefits you may have do those have to vest if you have any kind of deferred compensation do you lose that if you leave or is it negotiable so that you know if you're there for more

[64:59] than a certain period of time you get a certain portion of your deferred compensation or or your incentives maybe you have stock incentives or whatever all of this has to be worked out and understood in terms of what happens if I am no no longer going to be with the company now this used to be something only for more senior positions but now you know like if you're working for a startup or whatever where you know you're not getting a big salary but you're getting maybe stock options or you're getting stock in the company or whatever it's a more important issue to deal with because the compensation for the long hours that

[65:36] doesn't come through you know salary is coming perhaps through other means and so you want to know what happens if you leave the company are you going to Forfeit those take them with you will the company buy them back there again there's as many different ways that these can be handled as there are companies and employers and employees okay all right so this is the list here and what I'm going to do is when I post the show notes I'm going to post just the list I'm not going to post all the explanatory stuff but I'll post the list there for you and that way if you know

[66:12] you can have it to to use um if if you're uh you know heading into negotiations or you're thinking about switching jobs or whatever you know whatever you're doing and as always if you have any questions with any of this feel free to let me know there'll be ways to contact me in the show notes you can drop a a comment in any of the social media if you're watching it live and I will be happy to respond to those comments and um okay so I think I think that does it I'm gonna stop the screen share here so a lot of information and to be able

[66:48] to negotiate well and successfully you're gonna have to do homework don't go into the negotiations cold you're just putting yourself at a disadvantage okay so that's the I want to leave you with that final thought make sure that you do your homework before you go into the negotiations okay that way as they proceed you may have to do some additional research but at least you'll have your foundation set from which you can negotiate then to finer points okay

[67:25] very good well thank you very much for joining me today I know we again we went over a little bit on time thanks for sticking with me I appreciate it I want to remind you next week on Monday is trusts and Estates weekly my guest is going to be uh Cheryl Monk and she is a freelance uh journalist and who who writes frequently on issues related to um uh personal finances retirement uh student loan debt relief all all of

[68:00] these things that affect our ability to become financially stable and build wealth and I think you will enjoy you will enjoy um hearing um uh Cheryl's thoughts um we met because one of her articles was uh published in the Wall Street Journal so you know that's the level at which you know someone who's who's you know who can freelance and have articles picked up by the Wall Street Journal you can get an idea of the quality of of their work so I think you will enjoy that that's at 10 A.M uh Monday morning Pacific Time 1 p.m eastern time Tuesday

[68:38] of next week is the next episode of business lessons from the military that's at 11 A.M Pacific 2 p.m Eastern I hope you'll join me for that we'll we'll spend a half an hour talking about business Doctrine and how it can be applied to Growing your businesses and making them more successful and then a week from today 12 30 p.m uh Pacific Time 3 30 p.m eastern time is the next episode of people making money and I hope you will join me for that so thank you so much again for joining me have a

[69:14] wonderful rest of the week and look forward to seeing you next week and signing off just want to remember her again Marie You Are My Bell darling all the best folks